|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Keep in mind that it's entirely within the GM's power to pull from sources other than ones the PCs can access and/or come up with one-off abilities to give opponents unique mechanics, all of which can take place behind the screen.
A GM needs to be careful with this kinda thing to ensure he's not just creating opponents for the sake of bypassing the PCs defenses just to hand out a whoopin'. Anything the GM comes up with should be passingly in line with the rules, level appropriate, and make sense within the context of the game world and adventure. It's also entirely possible your GM might be operating completely outside the rules, in which case he will be the only person that knows the answer.
-Skeld
|
Multiple AoO is easy - Combat Reflexes and a good Dex.
Tripping shouldn't negate an attack attempt. You can complete an attack while prone.
Was the AoO on being attacked possibly the Kata Master's parry and riposte?
At 1st level, when an opponent makes a melee attack against the swashbuckler (kata master), she can spend 1 panache point and expend a use of an attack of opportunity to attempt to parry that attack. The swashbuckler makes an attack roll as if she were making an attack of opportunity; for each size category the attacking creature is larger than the swashbuckler, the swashbuckler takes a –2 penalty on this roll. If her result is greater than the attacking creature's result, the creature's attack automatically misses. The swashbuckler must declare the use of this ability after the creature's attack is announced, but before its attack roll is made. Upon performing a successful parry and if she has at least 1 panache point, the swashbuckler can as an immediate action make an attack against the creature whose attack she parried, provided that creature is within her reach.
That's not exactly what you described but it would allow the monk to trip someone and also negate an attack - though each action would take a separate roll.
|
So, a 2nd level of Master of Many Styles monk could have snake style, snake fang and combat reflexes and would be able to do most of the things you are saying he is doing. However, and maybe your GM has missed this, the attacks would have to actually miss first in order to get the free attacks of opportunity.
So... I am in a game and the GM just threw a Monk at us who just DECIMATED our party. I mean decimated. Multiple attacks of opportunity, could interrupt any melee attack to attack the person attacking (where he always tripped so it negated the attack attempt). I've gone through the books and went insane trying to figure out how in the world he did this.
I saw nothing that gives a monk an AoO whenever he is attacked.
How in the world is this done? Note, this guy is level 4 maybe 5? I'm so confused.
Snake Fang mothaf+&~a (one of my personal favorite Feats). Gives an AoO every time you miss. The prereq Feat Snake Style lets you use Snese Motive in place of AC as an Immediate, so it can change his AC in the middle of your attack.
Or could be Parry/Riposte.
Or Flowing Monk's Redirection.
Or a combo of any or all of the above.
Though note...falling prone doesn't negate your attack. It just gives you a -4 to-hit.
Also note all of the above (except Snake Fang) are Immediate actions, so he should only be getting one ATTACK off this way (though Parry can be done multiple times per round, Riposte cannot).
Could be he dipped into barbarian for Come and Get Me. That was my immediate thought.
So I take it your side lost?
|
|
Crane Style/Wing/Riposte might work, if it was a human Master of Many Styles who had used their 1st level feats to take Dodge and Crane Style normally, the bonus feat on Crane Wing, and their 2nd level feat on Riposte (otherwise you wouldn't get Riposte until level 6 at least). However you can only deflect one attack per round and make one AoO.
For reference, Flowing Monk's redirection - though I'm not sure where attack negation would be coming from. Misunderstanding how trip works?
At 1st level, as an immediate action, a flowing monk can attempt a reposition or trip combat maneuver against a creature that the flowing monk threatens and that attacks him. If the combat maneuver is successful, the attacker is sickened for 1 round (Reflex DC = 10 + 1/2 the monk’s level + monk’s Wisdom modifier to halve the duration), plus 1 additional round at 4th level and for every four levels afterward (to a maximum of 6 rounds at 20th level). The monk gains a +2 bonus on the reposition or trip combat maneuver check and the save DC for redirection increases by 2 if the attacker is using Power Attack or is charging when attacking him. The benefit increases to a +4 bonus and an increase of the saving throw by 4 if both apply.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
You should have attacked from the ground.
"Sorry, already prone, you can't trip me again. Smite, Smite, Motha*****"
This was a Flowing Monk. They can trip or reposition in response to being attacked. Whenever I use Flowing Monks as enemies, I also give them Vicious Stomp, so, it's even more dangerous.
Still, the real problem might be your level 3 Paladin's 16 CMD. That's pretty low--either you have a negative Dex or you don't have an 18 Strength, and neither one is good.
Sounds like he doesn't understand the rule of immediate actions. namely that you only get one and it uses your next turns swift.
Unless you were the only one attacking him so he only needed to use it once a round.
This was a Flowing Monk. They can trip or reposition in response to being attacked. Whenever I use Flowing Monks as enemies, I also give them Vicious Stomp, so, it's even more dangerous.
My players fear the occasional presence of Master Chen, wandering martial artist.
I have a monk who does similar things (without the trip shenanigans though) and indeed it uses the Kata Master archetype.
Panther Style/Claw/Parry is the feat chain that lets you attack in response to an AoO, eventually pre-empting it.
So there are a lot of ways to build effective monks out there now, but the house rule was the main problem it seems.
Multiple attacks of opportunity, could interrupt any melee attack to attack the person attacking (where he always tripped so it negated the attack attempt).
this is a house rule, you can attack while prone at a -4 to-hit.
edit: sweet i was correct.
Almost all "Parry/Opponent misses - then Counter-Attack" mechanics use an immediate action for the actual triggered attack. You only get one of these per round and it counts as your swift action for the next round.
If the DM missed that "costs an immediate action" part, or their one 1 per round aspect, this will make these kind of abilities far too strong.
Well. No. Because a) you can only ready one action, not a few, and b) he gets a free attack when you stand. Which he would likely use to knock you down again. He's clearly a master of chumbawumba fu
Only point i'm addressing, you can't trip someone standing up and provoking because they still have the prone condition when the AoO goes off.
Okay, I misunderstood that. So you can only ready one action, not one of each.
The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that you ready might do so).
Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.
...
...
Fighter B then would have to expend his standard action, to ready a standard action, in this case attack, when they are attacked in melee combat.
Then Fighter B could move, should he want to, for example into Melee Range with Monk A.
Not in that order. (At least not with me as DM.) Fighter B could move, then ready his action to attack.
Monk A then, on his turn, could declare a full attack action to attack Fighter B. This allows him his natural weapon attacks and his flurry.
Fighter B, however attacks Monk A with his readied action. Monk A cannot do his Trip/Re-Position because when he declared his Full Attack action he used his Swift Action up as well as his Move Action and Standard Action.
No. Monk A making a Full Attack doesn't 'expend' his Swift Action for that round.
An action's type essentially tells you how long the action takes to perform (within the framework of the 6-second combat round) and how movement is treated. There are six types of actions: standard actions, move actions, full-round actions, swift actions, immediate actions, and free actions.
In a normal round, you can perform a standard action and a move action, or you can perform a full-round action. You can also perform one swift action and one or more free actions. You can always take a move action in place of a standard action.
In some situations (such as in a surprise round), you may be limited to taking only a single move action or standard action.
...
Alternatively:
Instead of readying an attack action, Fighter B could have, providing he did not move, readied a 5ft-Step. As such when Monk A attacks Fighter B, Fighter B before Monk A attacks takes a 5ft-Step backward and out of melee range of Monk A causing Monk A to lose their full attack action and thus be unable to act as Fighter B is no longer a legal target.
Note: I'm aware of the statistical non-viability of this action. It would only be useful as a short term delaying tactic.
Correct?
That would work.
Thus, in this situation, readying a Move Action to stand up if Tripped would be more or less useless because he would be unable to attack (Unless for some reason Monk A triggered an Attack of Opportunity) which would not cause the Auto-Trip from occurring.
I don't know what you are trying to say here...
You can take your actions in any order you wish. It's just that I would think it strange to have a player announce: 'I'll ready to attack if he attacks me, and then I'm moving here'.
It just makes more sense for me if you say: 'I'll move her and ready an attack if he attacks me.'
The first might imply that you ready your attack to have it intercept the attack you might face during your move (if the monk had somehow reach, for example).
---
Ah, okay then.
---
One thing you could try in that situation is going total defense, and have the other characters take on the monk with magic / ranged weapons.
The monk can then either go after someone else, risking an attack of opportunity when stepping away from you, or try to punch through your defenses.
He could still try tripping you, total defense helps your CMD here as well.
If I were playing I would have switched to ranged attacks. Just back up and shoot the dude from a distance.
A ranged backup option is something all characters should have, be they casters or not.
Tanglefoot bags and alchemists fire and the like are cheap options and tricks that work to some extend even to higher levels.
Fighting defensively and Total Defense give you some more control of some situations.
Uh, a reach weapon is the simple answer. Hit him from 10' away and he doesn't threaten you and therefore can't trip you.
When you hit him, back away so he has to provoke to move closer and can't full attack. When he provokes, trip him.
|
|
Reach or ranged weapon is ideal. If you're not carrying a longspear you could attack while prone. The penalties suck but at least you won't get re-tripped.
Instead of readying an attack action, Fighter B could have, providing he did not move, readied a 5ft-Step. As such when Monk A attacks Fighter B, Fighter B before Monk A attacks takes a 5ft-Step backward and out of melee range of Monk A causing Monk A to lose their full attack action and thus be unable to act as Fighter B is no longer a legal target.
This will only cause the monk to lose one attack - they can then 5ft step up to you between attacks and finish the action.
You can 5 ft. step between attacks in a full attack, though only once per round without a special ability (like Jabbing Style).
Well, yes, if you tank your Dex and don't max your Str, your CMD is going to be pretty darn low.
Still dunno why you can't just attack him from Prone. You said your Smite works on him, so your Cha bonus should at least cancel out the penalty to-hit.
Do you have Improved Dirty Trick? Somehow I doubt it.
And provoking MORE AoOs doesn't sound like something you wanna do.
Might have to atone after that though...
No, you wouldn't. Don't worry about that. Don't even bring it up.
*Looks around furtively*
They're always listening!
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Might have to atone after that though...No, you wouldn't. Don't worry about that. Don't even bring it up.
*Looks around furtively*
They're always listening!
He'll have to Atone a few times anyway.
He's already fallen several times fighting this guy.
|
There is no way to Max Strength, while having a decent Con, Charisma, and Dex.
Depends upon the stat generation method. With the rather standard 20pt buy - a human pali can get 18 str / 12 dex / 14 Con / 14 Cha - and then drop either Int or Wis to 8 (I prefer Wis simply because I don't like the idea of playing a below average Int character - and a pali is still gonna have a really solid will save anyway.)
Paladins can dump Wis pretty safely. Since you have Will as a good save, and add Cha to saves starting a 2nd, a -1 or -2 to it isn't devastating in the least.
Even with only a 14 Cha, it's like having a 10 Wis.
wait, he's not evil? have you tried using the diplomacy skill on him? or perhaps hugging him?
Though you can indeed take your actions in any order, if you've readied an action, you cannot take another action afterwards without giving up your readied action.
Relevant Rule: