Thanks for the read through, kamenhero. I'm noticing you're reading through these rather hastily though, because I'm noticing some mistakes.
I do agree that blade master needs to be fiddled with somehow. It does give a bit too much. I'll break it off into two powers somehow, I think; three feats per taking of it. I'll also try to incorporate dread knight's idea, because I agree an oni scion who can't become a tetsubo master is weird. I'll rename those and have them focus on eastern weapons instead of slashing ones.
"Eye of the Yai" is the name of the power; less silly than your hilarious misreading. :P
I'm not sure if I think healing projectile needs to be "take twice". It doesn't actually grant you the spell. You can ONLY gain those effects via a healing projectile, which comes with its own limitations. I'm not worried about this ability's power level, really.
I'm curious why kami weapon/spirit blade give you a bit of pause when the martial bloodline's almost identical power didn't seem to stand out as problematic? Are the different unique abilities those two grant a lot better than the standard black blade powers they replace, do you think?
I'm leery of making Giant Tamer at "take twicer" because only getting a new consanguine creature type (that's already preset) seems rather crap for a bloodline power slot.
I do know that humanoid charade is very powerful, although it's hardly as good as giant shape. It only grants the abilities of alter self with a rather modestly scaling str bonus and equally sized dex penalty. That being said, it is definitely a very good ability. Maybe simply reduce the size stagger so it ends up at Huge (+6 str -6 dex)? Make it only usable once per day? Any other suggestions? I'd suggest comparing this ability to the goliath druid archetype for balance.
I'll nerf spirit haze as suggested. Not quite sure what my idea was regarding the dual conditions, actually. I might let 'em pick one of two; probably just reduce it those you said, though.
Improvised strike has not come up before. I do fail to see how taking a power to make improvised weapons usable is OP, though? I could make the sanguine pool bit cost 2 instead of 1 sanguine point? I mean, I guess it's alright for thrown improvised weapons (you get cha instead of str to damage and have dex to it so you can sorta dump str), but then it will be useless combining with the kami weapon ability (since that only affects a single improvised weapon).
These are my notes as of now. It's really late for me so I'll probably fix these and update them and post here tomorrow. Thanks for review kamenhero. Always dependable!
I think my issue with healing projectile is that some of the spells you can take for it are quite good and very valuable. Getting the benefits of them just be spending sanguine points is very useful (especially restoration). Requiring it to use a spell slot, but getting the benefit of casting what's normally a touch spell at range seems fair to me.
Kami/spirit weapon is fine, it just seems rather powerful. It's not a huge deal.
I see your point on Giant Tamer. I think my reaction came out of the fact that all the other control powers already effect your consanguine creature type, but this one adds a new one, then gives the control power on top of it.
I think once per day would be a perfect way to balance Humanoid Charade out. It's much less powerful when you need to be smart about the encounter you use it in.
Maybe I was thinking of something else. I could have sworn there was another bloodline that had a similar power to make you awesome at improvised weapons. I think my issue is flavor more than mechanics. It's mechanically not really a problem since you need to use your sanguine pool to get the enchantment bonuses, but the idea of picking up a chair leg, channeling some power and it's suddenly as good as wielding a masterfully crafted and enchanted weapon feels silly.
But think of it kamenhero! The improvised weapon becomes that powerful because it's the chair itself that's coming alive with the kami that inhabits it, as kami inhabit all objects, from the mightiest mountain to the smallest pebble, from a humble child's marble to a bomb that undoes cities! It's not a chair anymore, but a vibrant natural spirit twisting in your hands and undoing your enemies! There just wasn't space for it in the ability description. :P
EDIT: Actually, I had time to go through them and fix the things I thought required fixing. As always, some notes I disagree with haven't been implemented, but this should hopefully please both kamenhero and dread knight more than the first drafts:
As always, of course, these updated versions exist in the Google Docs folder as well.
Just a small update on the oni bloodline.
After having thought about it long and hard and compared the ability to a goliath druid's giant shape wild shape options, I decided to give oni blood scion's a second daily use of the ability at 13th level. I also changed it so you can become Large at 11th, Huge at 15th and Gargantuan at 19th level. It's still far less powerful than that archetype's ability, and seems in line with e.g. the wild shape power gained by the feral bloodline or the viridian bloodline's viridian form. If anyone wants to include the oni bloodline in a game and finds this too powerful at high levels, they can always just remove the additional daily use and grant all the size increases two levels earlier (9th, 13th, 17th).
I also appended a little info box at the end of oni to explain how fighting with an invisible weapon works for them. That's it for now. Probably coming back in a few days or so with an elf- and dwarf-themed bloodline (and possibly even a metal one!).
Cheers,
- Gears
Alright, so, as promised, an elf- and dwarf-themed bloodline have now been uploaded to the Google Drive folder. Here are the direct links:
I'd love any and all comments. After these, I might do an elemental metal one and take a break for now (although that'd bring us up to an annoyingly uneven 61 bloodlines...), but we'll see. Anyway, enjoy
Cheers,
- Gears
Small nitpick: on the Lamyros bloodline, in the Cursed Form power, in the Raptorian option, you only mention the arms becoming wings, but you also gain two talon strikes. Maybe you could add that the feet become those talons when the Scion transforms.
If you're still looking for bloodline ideas how about a speed, agility and quickness based bloodline, for those whose blood gives access to the speed force?
Cheers for the comment VM. I don't mind nitpicks. I'm sort of a neat freak when it comes to these so I'll sneak in and add that.
I DO kind of like the speed idea, although it might be a bit too abstract. For the most part, I like to create bloodlines anchored in a solid idea of physical heritage, you know? "The blood great king", "the blood of dragons", "The blood of alchemists" et cetera. What exactly would the "lineage" of a speed blood scion be? It doesn't have to be a specific creature or creature type, but it should be something at least somewhat tangible, I feel. It's a really nice concept mechanically, though, so if we can come up with a flavor for it I'd definitely consider it!
Cheers,
- Gears
Looking on the bestiaries... I got nothing. Maybe the quicklings but that is not enough for what the bloodline would need. Well, it was worth a try.
If I come up with something I'll pop up again.
Cheers. Please say if you come up with something. I'll give it a bit of a mull-over myself.
Unrelated, two ideas for the blood of ____ series:
Champion: for those descended of great athletes and sports champions;
Sage: for those descended from great thinkers, scholars, philosophers and inventors;
And another idea:
Super: for those with a humanoid alien with godlike powers in their family tree. Basically kryptonians others like that. Cross with Martial or Heroic for asgardians and amazons or with Thelassic for atlanteans. Crossblooded with Bizarre makes for a nice martian bloodline if still lacking the telepathy powers..
Hey there. Looks like there's more bloodlines for me to review. Fun times.
Class Skill: this is fine.
Bloodline Spells: these are all okay.
Bloodline Feats: interesting choices, but I think they're okay.
Bloodline Tongue: obvious one.
Consanguine Creature Type: obvious again.
Birthright Arcana: I guess this is okay.
Bloodline Powers:
Ageless: this is alright.
Arcane Archery: this is kind of a thing from the arcane archer and kind of a ranged spellstrike. This is okay.
Elfin Arcana: this is actually okay. It's only a few new spells, but it adds some much needed versatility.
Elfin Strike: I like this one. Nice and simple.
Elven Expertise: this one's alright. A lot like Bardic Knowledge, but for different skills.
Elven Kind: this one's a little weird, but I think it's okay. If does make it rather pointless for an elf to actually take this power though.
Fleet-Footed Surge: this is a fine surge power.
High Elf: okay, this is kind of over the top in flavor, but it's fine mechanically.
Natural Archer: aside from making Weapon Focus and Specialization part of the list of selectable feats, this is okay.
What Do Your Elf Eyes See?: aside from the silly name, this is okay.
Bloodline Apotheosis: Fast Healing might be unnecessary, but otherwise this seems alright.
Class Skill: this is fine.
Bloodline Spells: these are fine.
Bloodline Feats: these are good.
Bloodline Tongue: obvious.
Consanguine Creature Type: obvious.
Birthright Arcana: this is alright.
Bloodline Powers:
Cervisimancy: this is basically the same as the one in the Thallassic bloodline. It's alright.
And My Axe: I think this is okay.
Defending Surge: I think this is fine.
Dwarven Expertise: this came up in Elfin too, and it was fine there too.
Dwarvenkind: this is okay.
Enrune Equipment: this is fine, rather versatile, but helpful and it's only once per day so it's alright.
Nobody Tosses a Dwarf: does this stack with Dwarven Stability?
Ore Strike: I think this is alright.
Runic Arcana: this came up before in Sallow. It's fine.
Runic Curse: this one should be alright.
Bloodline Apotheosis: the Flesh to Gold thing seems a little odd for a dwarf. They do wealth and gold a lot, but turning someone into gold seems odd to me.
Thanks for the review kamenhero. I might have some other ideas for the runic capstone, so flesh to gold isn't something I'm married to. I think I'll nix the fast healing for elfin too; you're right about that. I'll look into adjusting natural archer too.
I'm gonna add a line, I think, for dwarvenkind and elvenkind so that if you pick those as a dwarf or an elf, you can gain an alternate racial trait you didn't choose at character creation, even if it would normally replace a trait you do have. So you could be an elf with both low-light and darkvision, et cetera. Does that sound balanced?
Thanks for the suggestions, mercenario. I'll look into those and see if I can wrangle some bloodlines out of them down the line!
I think the dwarven and elvenkind change sounds alright. Spending a major class feature on a racial trait isn't too powerful.
For additional Bloodline ideas maybe a Kobold, Gnoll, Luck(I don't think you've done this but I might be wrong I haven't read them all), or ones based on other creatures in the bestiary like Trolls or Harpies.
I'm loving all these suggestions guys! I might consider doing a trap-themed kobold bloodline, actually. That's a good idea, Dread Knight. Gnolls don't really inspire me, and trolls are covered by the brute bloodline, and harpies likewise (as vaguely lamia-related) will have to contend with that one harpy-themed bloodline power from the lamyros bloodline.
I don't wanna play favorites, but right now I'm thinking the Elemental Metal and Sphinx ideas sound the most interesting and I have ideas for them straight away. The sphinx one will probably have a rather broad Osirion/Egypt/Mummies/Tomb Raider-esque theme, in addition to the more narrow sphinxian focus. I'll post a small update here once I've corrected and appended elfin and runic. Can't promise how quickly I'll be able to get the next two out, but hopefully somewhat soonish.
Again, thanks for all the cool suggestions.
Cheers,
- Gears
EDIT: Oh, well, that went quickly. Elfin and runic are now updated as per notes received and uploaded onto the Google Drive thingie.
More ideas:
Disgraced: For those with the blood of infamous villains and notorious failures and that wish to redeem their families or create their own legends.
Occular: Beholder themed bloodline. Can include some magic alltering, some improved vision modes, some anti magic. Most powers should give an extra eye.
Phrenic: An Illithid/Githzerai/ Githyanki flavored bloodline. Psionic if you're okay with third party, occult if not.
Oooh! The disgraced one is a great concept! Like the others too!
*YOINK!*
Don't know if this has already been thought of (or if it's hidden in the bloodlines somewhere), but this class screams Blackblade to me. A bloodline based on the blackblade would be amazing.
Two more:
Quick: A small races oriented bloodline. Halfling, Gnome, Kender, Goblin, Ratfolk, Wayang and even Quicklings. The opposite of the Brute bloodline, focusing on agility, skill and being small.
Chronal: Time related bloodline. For those descended from time dragons, from wizards or scientists that experimented with time travel, or from the misterious Temporal Nobles.
There, I think I've run out of bloodline ideas.
Don't know if this has already been thought of (or if it's hidden in the bloodlines somewhere), but this class screams Blackblade to me. A bloodline based on the blackblade would be amazing.
The Kami and Oni bloodlines gives them a weapon similar to a Blackblade.
I agree with VM's Time Bloodline idea I was originally going to suggested that but I thought that maybe the Ancient Bloodline and maybe some others might have already covered it but if you think that it might not have to much overlap I'd like to see what you can do Ethereal. I'd also like to bring up my suggestion on a Luck based Bloodline again.
Thanks for the suggestions guys.
First of all, SkinnyD: Dread Knight is right. The Kami and Oni Bloodlines gain spirit weapons which function similarly to black blades, and the Martial Bloodline can gain a "blood blade" which is actually more or less identical to a black blade.
Right now I'm working on finishing the Metallic bloodline and will then start work on Sphinx before releasing those two in tandem. Once I've gotten those two out I'll see which other two suggestions to go for next. I'm thinking probably Disgraced (actual name pending) and one more.
I might consider doing a Small-themed bloodline, though I'm not entirely convinced. I do feel like I already have two "time"-themed bloodlines; Ancient and Modern. I actually created them as a sort of pair for that purposes.
Ethereal is possible, but the Thanatotic Bloodline is very "ghost"-themed and it might infringe too much upon that.
As for Luck, while I like the idea, I feel like it might conflict rather a lot with my take on the Destined bloodline. Basically, destiny- and luck-themed powers tend to feel very similar in Pathfinder, is my experience.
Well, these are my thoughts for now. Keep an eye peeled for Metal & Sphinx (awesome name for a buddy cop show?)!
Cheers,
- Gears
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Yes, yes it would be.
I'm onboard with a Chronomancer Bloodline, as in the force of Time itself rather than a time period (like Ancient and Modern are).
Ocular and Phrenic sound good, too.
Two other concepts I've done a bit of work on myself as Sorcerer Bloodlines: Tyrant and Revolutionary (the latter of which is kind of both political and intellectual/scientific revolutionary).
"Janet Metal was just an ordinary beat cop, until one night when called in to investigate a disturbance at the Antiquities Museum, she found a riddle she could. Not. Solve."
Ahem, I mean, what?
Well, I might look into Time, then. Time and a Fallen/Disgraced/Sin bloodline might be the next two.
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I would like a 'Quick' or Quickened bloodline as well, but one focused on speed and movement. Where one is able to have increased movement, increased dodge AC, perhaps even converting the distance runned or charged into greater damage.
Characters of speed and ability, with the blood of monsters and fey such as quickling. Often obsessed speed, enjoying the thrill of going as fast as possible.
Some sort of speed-themed bloodline might be possible in the future. We'll see if I can manage coming up with enough powers for both a Small, Quick and a Time Bloodline. For now all I know is I'll be working on Disgraced, and then we'll see which one I par that up with.
In the interim, I've finished the sphinx and metal bloodlines. Here are the direct links:
When updates happen in response to critiques those versions will be found in the Google Drive folder, as always.
EDIT: I also changed that admittedly rather incongruous runic bloodline apotheosis to the following:
"At 20th level, a runic blood scion gains DR 10/adamantine and immunity to alcohol addiction and poisons. The blood scion also gains the constant benefits of detect metal, except the spell's effect covers a 1-mile radius centered on the blood scion, and it can only detect precious and rare metals. Lastly, by spending 1 sanguine point the blood scion can gain the effects of stone tell, using his class level as his effective caster, although instead of talking specifically to stone, the ability allows him to talk to any masterwork object and any artificial structure. Items and structures composed entirely of wood cannot be addressed via this ability."
Class Skill: Interesting choice actually.
Bloodline Spells: I quite like these.
Bloodline Feats: these are okay. Essentially gaining the Hardy racial trait is a little odd, but okay.
Bloodline Tongue: again, interesting.
Consanguine Creature Type: makes sense I guess.
Birthright Arcana: this is good.
Bloodline Powers:
Call Metal: I actually really like this one. At low levels, it's just telekinetically being about to recall items, but it gets a fun offensive use later.
Iron Surge: very interesting. The hardness is fine, and I'm liking what you did with the elements.
Leaden Strike: gaining a 1st level spell ability for 1 minute seems fair for a pool ability. And the poison thing is clever.
Metal Mastery: this is kind of the Fighter's Weapon Training and Armor Training put together. Having to take it multiple times I think is balance enough, but I'd have to test it to be sure.
Metallic Servant: I'm kind of surprised Paizo doesn't have Metal Elementals. Anyway, this is fine.
Oxidizing Touch: This seems fine.
Quicksilver Form: so you become a metallic ooze basically. This is fine.
Silken Steel: this is like Where Flap the Tatters if I remember correctly. It should be fine.
Thermal Conduction: this is gaining a spell-like ability more or less. I'd make it two points, but otherwise this is fine.
Transmute Metal: this is actually really nice. Good for when you know you'll be going up against something with DR.
Bloodline Apotheosis: Both Keen and Impact seems like a lot, but otherwise I don't see anything wrong with this one.
Class Skill: this is fine.
Bloodline Spells: interesting choices, but I like them.
Bloodline Feats: some weird ones, but thematic.
Bloodline Tongue: of course.
Consanguine Creature Type: okay.
Birthright Arcana: this if good.
Bloodline Powers:
Form of the Living Image: interesting. It seems okay, but you gain some really good stuff with the 11th level upgrades.
Locust Swarm: I think this is okay. It's going to be horrifically annoying at low levels though. I would consider making it 7th level power.
Mellified Scion: this is kind of weird, but ultimately it's a resistance power that seems alright.
Mummify: this is fine.
Riddle Me This: I've said before that I generally avoid things that require feats to be class features when you're not getting the feat from your class. Perhaps make this one function as Bewildering Koan, but with the riddle effects instead, but not requiring them to actually have the feat.
Roar of the Androsphinx: this is fine.
Sandstorm: this seems fine. It's just a breath weapon.
Sphingian Ally: I really should go back over the Familiar Folio. This is fine.
Tomb Raider: odd, but workable. Somewhat limited, but good for a certain type of game.
Tomb-Cursed Strike: ouch, ability to inflict mummy rot. That's nasty. Level restriction makes this one pretty good though.
Bloodline Apotheosis: I think this is okay, though you're going to be summoning some weird things with these rules.
Thanks for the read-through kamenhero. I'm glad you seem mostly to like these two.
I do think there's some strange difference of design philosophy between you and me regarding this "feats as prereqs" thing. Now, I've agreed with your notes on this topic in the past, because the particular abilities have warranted your suggested changes, but this categorical dislike you have of the concept I find hard to grasp.
Let me lay out my thinking. The blood scion gains bonus feats as a class feature. Bewildering Koan is one of the bonus feats the Spingian bloodline can select. How is making that a prereq for a bloodline power any stranger than making, say, another bloodline power a prereq? I'd understand if the prereq was just some random feat they'd have to qualify for and pick with their level feats, but this is a special bonus feat they can select completely without prereqs, and it's a pretty darn good way to spend a sanguine point too, so it's not even a feat tax. The reason Riddle Me This has Bewildering Koan as a prereq is because I considered it a good enough ability to merit a prereq. Now, if your criticism is simply that this power isn't powerful enough to require a prereq aside from the level one, that I might consider. But if it's just some curious axiom that "bloodline powers can be prereqs for things but bloodline feats can't" to me that's not enough to dismiss using Bewildering Koan as a prereq out of hand.
I'm not trying to sound overly antagonistic. I hope you know how much I appreciate your critiques. Maybe there's some facet of your logic I am missing. At any rate, I'll be looking at Disgraced and a companion for that one during the week to come. Thanks again everyone for comments and suggestions. I'm taking it all on board, just FYI.
Cheers,
- Gears
Alright, I'll explain my thinking. The issue is, when bloodline powers are prereqs for other bloodline powers (or any class feature is a prereq for another), the later power is almost universally an upgrade to the first power, and therefore it only makes sense to have it if you have the first one. However, there's no reason why you'd need to be able to ask philosophical conundrums to be able to ask sphinx style riddles.
However, the difference here is the Riddle Me This isn't an upgrade to Bewildering Koan. It's a different power that functions similarly to Bewildering Koan. You could switch the 'spend one additional point when using Bewildering Koan' to 'may spend two points to ask a sphingian riddle' and it would literally change nothing other than freeing up a feat that's arbitrarily being taxed to get a class feature.
I've said this before. No Paizo designed class gives features that have the caveat 'if you have already picked a feat to use this class feature'. Think of Oracle Mysteries or Magus Arcana. None of them do it. Because requiring a feat, a universal ability that anyone can learn and you may or may not take since you have dozen (if not hundreds) of options for, to use a class feature, a special skill unique to your class that only someone of your class is able to learn, is silly.
Now I know what your argument is. 'If it's a bloodline feat, and therefore a class feature, what's the problem?' Well, bloodline feats are their own limit resource that you're picking at certain levels. Saying that you have to essentially give one up to gain an entirely different class feature isn't fair. I know the obvious counter argument here too. 'You're still getting the ability to use Bewildering Koan, so you're not losing a bloodline feat.' So I ask, why would I ever use Bewildering Koan once I have Riddle Me This? It's just flat out better, so I essentially have a feat sitting there doing nothing that I could have filled with something I'd actually use just because I need it to use Riddle Me This. It's the same problem with feat taxes. Most people don't use Combat Expertise, but anyone who wants to be good at combat maneuvers have to take it, waste a slot, and lose out on a feat they might want later.
Also, I'm sorry to drop this now, but Riddle Me This is way more powerful than I originally thought. I mean seriously 11 HOURS of confusion? Seriously? How about you drop the Bewildering Koan part and change the effects to something other than suffocation (or at least make it less punishing), the opponent must make a Reflex Save or be flat-footed until the end of the blood scion's next turn (because serious, standard action coup de gras is overkill, there's a reason they're always a full-round action), or the target must make a Will Save or be confused of 1 minute per blood scion level (and even that's a little much considering how much better it is than the confusion spell).
Thanks for the elaboration, kamenhero. That was very helpful. I agree with most of your points, especially as concerns Riddle Me This as an ability. It is meant to be a save-or-suck, since that's the premise of classic sphinx riddling. I will rework it with BK excised and post the results here once done.
EDIT: Alright. This is what I have for a revamp of Riddle Me This. I think this one seems a lot more reasonable, hopefully.
"Riddle Me This (Su): The blood scion can expend 2 sanguine points as a full-round action to pose a sphingian riddle to a foe within 30 feet. To do this, the blood scion makes a Bluff check opposed by a Sense Motive check on behalf of his target, and if he wins the opposed check the blood scion can cause one of the following outcomes to occur:
• He can force his target to make a Fortitude save or else start instantly suffocating. On the following two rounds the blood scion can expend a full-round action each round to force the creature to make a new Fortitude save or else suffocate for one additional round.
• He can force the creature to make a Reflex save or else allow him to make a single weapon attack against it as part of the same full-round action used to pose the riddle. If this attack hits, it resolves as a coup de grace even if the creature is not helpless.
• He can force his target to make a Will save or else become confused for 10 minutes per class level of the blood scion. Once every 10 minutes while this confusion lasts, the creature can make a new Will save to attempt to figure the riddle out and end its confusion. This does not require expending any actions on behalf of the creature.
The blood scion choose which of these options to gain access to upon gaining this bloodline power; this choice cannot be altered once made. This ability can only target the same creature once every 24 hours. This ability is a language-dependent effect. A blood scion must be at least 11th level to gain this bloodline power."
EDIT II: Since I am a total linguistics nerd and you were wondering, kamenhero, "sphingian" is just an adjective meaning "of or pertaining to sphinxes". A a less common pluralization of "sphinx" is "sphinges". The more you know! :)
Hey Ethereal how are things going? I was thinking since Occult Adventures came out an Occult themed Bloodline would be interesting.
Hey Dread Knight. Pardon the highly belated reply. I figure I'll post this here rather than send a PM, though, since other people might be curious about progress on this project.
I've been sidetracked working on a bunch of other classes (a swarm-themed class called the myriant, a shadow-conjuring gish class called the shadewright and a military-themed mage class called the battlecaster), along with a lot of other projects, so creating further blood scion bloodlines has sort of taken a back seat. I have completed the Fallen Bloodline, though, and am currently pondering how to make a Picayune (small/fast-creatures-themed) and Chronal (time-themed) bloodline work. I had this idea I wanted to get all three of those done and post them simultaneously. My group does own Occult Adventures now and I've been eyeing through it; not really dived deep yet, though. An Occult bloodline could be fun, although I probably wouldn't want to make anything as "psychic magic"-heavy as Paizo's Psychic Sorcerer Bloodline. Possibly it would be something generally occult and spooky (taking pains not to make it too similar to my Thanatotic bloodline), with some mechanics influenced by OA. I'll see what I can do. If this one inspires me I might do it before Picayune/Chronal and post it together with Fallen before dropping those two off later as a secondary pair.
Sorry if that got a bit rambling. Having a nasty head cold and sleep-deprived. To anyone else reading, expect the Fallen and one or two more bloodlines to drop in the coming weeks, hopefully.
Cheers,
- Gears
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So! I did most of the work only on, then I neglected it for months, now I've finished the Phthisic Bloodrager Bloodline I said somebody should make! The formatting translated poorly, and I'm a little worried I left the door open for other people to see the other stuff I turned out to have on there, but this is my first foray into using Google Drive. I'll follow through with a Phthisic Sorcerer Bloodline at some point. Let me know what you think!
Hey, that's awesome IHIYC! That's one of my favorite bloodlines, and I'd love to see both a BR and Sorcerer version of it. Sadly, though, when I click that link I get a message saying that folder cannot be viewed (I can't post the error message directly, because my Google Drive is in Swedish). I'm not sure what the problem is, sadly. Hopefully you can figure out how to fix it so we can all get to see the new Phthisic Bloodlines!
In the meantime, I have now finished the long-ago-promised Fallen Bloodline and an Occult Adventures-inspired Esoteric Bloodline. I hope y'all enjoy!
These are direct links, but if any changes are made following critiques, the latest updated versions will be available in my Google Drive folder, as always.
Cheers,
- Gears
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Try this instead.
Failing that, is it possible that I need to take extra steps to open a "public space" in my Google Drive for other people to see it?
Yeah, that link has the same problem. But I'm not sure what you mean about opening a "public space". In my Google Drive, I have a folder called Blood Scion Files, which in turn includes the folder Bloodline Files. All I did was right-click on this folder and select the "Share" option, choosing to let anyone on the internet view (but not edit) its contents. This doesn't mean the rest of my Google Drive is suddenly also open to the public. Not sure if that's helpful, but it's the best I can do by way of explaining.
There we go. You've cracked the code! :P
I'll give it a read-through ASAP!
Cheers,
- Gears
EDIT: Quick note! The picture in your doc is really messing up the text. Format it so the picture is on its own, not pushed into the middle of the text
Guess who's still here. Let me take a crack at these.
Class Skill: this is fine.
Bloodline Spells: all good.
Bloodline Feats: all obviously very thematic.
Bloodline Tongue: unusual. It works, but it's still unusual.
Consanguine Creature Type: this is quite a large variety of creatures.
Birthright Arcana: this is fine.
Bloodline Powers:
Cartomancy: perhaps make this something more based of the Harrow. It is Pathfinder after all. No reason not to take advantage of one of the biggest sources of occult strangeness in the setting.
Demimonde: okay, this one is very cool. A lot like the medium's seance, but with some unique powers attached to it.
Esoteric Lore: this one is alright. It's just skill bonuses. Some very good skill bonuses (seriously, all knowledge skills is awesome) but I don't think it's game breaking.
Mind Palace: I'd rename this one, but it's effect is fine.
Necronomicon: oh dear. Aside from the huge creepy factor, I like this. It's cool, useful, and thematic. I might limit what spell lists you can take spells from though. Maybe only arcane or psychic spells.
Phase Lurch: I'd call this Phase Step, but otherwise it's fine.
Psychic Duelist: I'd spread out where you get the extra feats on this one because you're getting them very quickly, but otherwise it's nice.
Phrenic Surge: I think this is alright.
Strike the Psyche: this is basically spell strike with a powerful blasting spell. The Intensified Shocking Grasp Magus exists, so I can't say it's broken, but this is going to be a must take power.]
Travelling Suggestion: this feels really powerful. If it's used carefully, it's absolutely terrifying.
Bloodline Apotheosis: this is all fine. Looks like fun.
Class Skill: this makes sense.
Bloodline Spells: some very handy spells. Great Heroism is a personal favorite spell.
Bloodline Feats: some interesting choices. Strange stuff.
Bloodline Tongue: interesting.
Consanguine Creature Type: fair enough.
Birthright Arcana: this is fine.
Bloodline Powers:
Anonymous: this is fairly straight forward. It's fine.
Avenging Surge: okay. This is fine.
Downfall: this is fine. It reminds me of Mental Block.
Fatal Betrayal: this is horrifically rude. I'd be worried about it encouraging players to murder NPCs, but mechanically it's fine.
Fallen Outsider: this seems like a really horrifically powerful ability in flavor. Mechanically it's not too bad, but it seems extreme to be able to make an angel fall with a flick of the wrist.
Hopeless Strike: this one if fine.
Original Sin: this is mostly alright. I would clarify that Vendetta is a bloodline power available if you're going to put vendetta at the end of the others.
Polymorphic Disguise: this is alright.
Showdown: this is alright, though the conditions can be very brutal if a GM decides that a villain is going to get away no matter what the players do.
Vendetta: this is a lot like the Studied Target ability of the Slayer, but more restricted to activate.
Bloodline Apotheosis: I actually really like the options here. It gives you some more customization.
Thanks for the read-through Kamenhero. Insightful as always. I'll try to give a sort of consolidated response:
Esoteric: I knew people were going to say 'do Harrow instead!' for the cartomancy power. I did consider it for a while, but decided not to because on the one hand, my group has never played in Golarion and my familiarity with the setting is very spotty (I know a lot about some aspects, but little to nothing about others, including Varisia and the whole Harrow thing). Secondly, Harrow DOES feel sort of Golarion-specific, if not quite, and I tend to avoid that kind of stuff. I know I know, I did a Final Fantasy bloodline, and that's certainly setting-specific in its own way, but I've just been avoiding things specific to pre-existing PFRPG campaign worlds, including the "official" one. Anyway, if someone could come up with a nifty rewrite of Cartomancy that would work with Harrow, I could add it as a Special Note option at the end of the document. Since I know nothing about how Harrow decks work, I mean.
Mind Palace is called mind palace because hypercognition works like the method of loci, also called the mind palace method, of memorization, which is a real world thing plus it's in the new Sherlock series and I like it.
Phase Lurch is called phase lurch because that's the name of the ectoplasmic creature/phantom ability it mimics. I just wanted to be consistent with other PF material. Minor quibble anyway.
Good call on Psychic Duelist. Will spread out the feats.
I was actually a bit unsure about Traveling Suggestion. I really like the flavor and feel of it, but I agree it has the potential to be very powerful. The question is, is it TOO powerful? I could bump the actual contagious suggestion ability up to a higher level if need be? Is 9 too early? 11?
Fallen: I agree that Fallen Outsider is a kinda crazy ability and the fluff does imply the blood scion being rather powerful. But I think it's mitigated since it's only 1 round/level and thus clearly only a temporary "not really real" change. But yeah. I think this bloodline is fine overall otherwise.
@I'm Hiding In Your Closet: Hey, I think your phthisic Bloodline looks rather swanky. I love the flavor of the abilities. More in your face and brutally visceral than what a phthisic (can't believe I'm foisting that unpronuncable word on people now, heh) blood scion gets, which of course fits perfectly since bloodragers are a lot more martial. I think it looks balanced and cool overall, and I like both the spells, feats and bloodline powers. I also really like the allusions in your fluff description. Creates a good feel, very evocative.
I just have two small notes. Firstly, I would change teratomorphic tongue (awesome ability) so that you get the reach increase at 4th and the cold iron/silver vs. DR ability at 8th. It's unusual to get that kind of DR penetration ability at such an early level, and gaining reach with a single natural attack at 4th isn't OP at all.
Secondly, for the lung lancer power, I would probably consider making the suffocation ability cost a little bit more, since it's a very powerful spell to imitate. Then again, the ability does already have a lot of restrictions regarding how you can trigger it, so I may be overreacting. Just something to consider.
Otherwise, awesome work. Small derail, but reading this made me think about how tricky I would find it to design something like a bloodrager or sorcerer bloodline. There really isn't anything else in PF, aside from cavalier orders and domains (but both of those have so few abilities), that work like those two class features. I mean a long list of fixed abilities, with the demand that each must be more powerful than the next, but not in the way of a feat chain or a "greater" version of a spell, but within a far more vague theme. I'm really impressed with how you got the bloodline powers to ramp up the power level in a smooth way, IHIYC. I remember that part of the reason why I made the blood scion's bloodlines work like oracle mysteries was because I realized I would never be able, or it would take me like four times as long, to create preset lists of bloodline powers like that with a clear, linear power escalation. Anyway, just a random musing that struck me. Looking forward to the phthisic sorcerer!
Cheers,
- Gears
EDIT: I just realized I completely forgot to write a fluff text for the esoteric bloodline! I am such a terrible munchkin rollplayer! Anyway, the document in the Google Drive has been updated to include the following now:
"You have always felt naturally drawn to the esoteric, to forbidden or recondite knowledge that transcends the boundaries of traditional arcane magic. Your blood is infused with the powers of the mind and the spirit realm, as you hail from a long line of occult investigators, eldritch researchers and psychic sages."
I'm always happy to help. And I love this class.
Esoteric:
- I suppose I can't argue about the Harrow. I'm a big fan, so that influences my thinking a little bit, but I respect wanting to keep out Golarion setting specific ideas.
- Mind Palace: Cool.
- Phase Lurch: I did not realize that. Works fine then.
- I think moving the contagious factor to a higher level would help. Either 9 or 11 would be alright. I'd do 11, but it's your call.
Fallen:
- I agree that mechanically it's fine. The fluff just makes it sound very intense.
So, I realized that the Traveling Suggestion ability was actually a bit fishy no matter how you slice it. I didn't actually realize you could potentially create a never-ending series of suggestions with no required end date, so I amended it to this:
"Travelling Suggestion (Su): The blood scion adds suggestion to his list of spells known as a 2nd-level spell. Beginning at 9th level, as part of casting suggestion, the blood scion can expend 2 sanguine points as a swift action to cause the suggestion to become contagious. If the spell's target fails their save, until its duration elapses, any creature that spends 5 minutes or more within 30 feet of the target must also save against the spell or else be influenced by the same suggestion. Such creatures can furthermore spread the suggestion to others in the same fashion. The durations of all these secondary suggestions are immediately cancelled once the duration of the initial suggestion that started the spread ends. Furthermore, once a creature has been affected by this ability, including via a secondary suggestion, it gains immunity to it for the next 24 hours. A blood scion must be 5th level or higher to gain this bloodline power."
Definitely a nerf, obviously, but now I feel more fine about the 9th-level mark for the contagious ability. Still a very useful ability, I reckon.
Just to keep everyone up to speed. The Google Drive file has been amended to reflect this change. I'd also love a kamenhero run-through of Closet's Phthisic, by the way! :)
Cheers,
- Gears
I think I can manage that
Bloodline Spells: These all look good.
Bloodline Feats: These are all fine. Fair warning though. No one is ever going to take Inner Breath because you give Iron Lungs which already gives you protection from half the things the feat is good for.
Bloodline Powers:
Teratomorphic Tongue: You get a Xenomorph tongue. Mechanically it's fine. Flavor-wise it's absolutely awesome.
Iron Lungs: Fun. Kind of situational, but not too bad.
Ravenous Ribs: This is cool. The damage if the foe fails the check is kind of high considering you're getting a huge grapple bonus. Maybe make it 1d8, but otherwise this is okay.
Biomechanical Body: This actually does a lot. The fact that it makes you absurdly hard to kill thanks to resetting your hit points is a little overkill.
Lung Lancer: This is alright.
Assimilation Seed: This is utterly terrifying. I think I might make my players change alignment just for using it, but it's pretty cool. It's certainly worth a capstone ability.
Final Thoughts: Okay, this bloodline is really cool, but I have quips. First, the sheer focus on the lungs and breathing feels like overkill. It's supposed to be about the entire body being corrupted and fundamentally alien, but it feels like only the bloodrager's lungs are messed up. That's... very specific. Two, this bloodline essentially locks you into a grappling build. Of course, that could be the point but this is really only good at grappling, otherwise you can't use half of your bloodline powers.