I have a friend who made a Slyph Kapenia Dancer Hexcrafter Magus that's pretty effective. I'm looking to make one as an Undine and use:
Undine's Curse plus the Slumber hex.
I looked thru the Magus guides, but can't find one that deals with the Kapenia Dancer archetype.
(Why Kapenia Dancer? It fits the concept of the character better than, say, the Kensai or Bladebound, etc. Gypsy dancer who can kick butt and control the field through trips and disarms with her bladed scarf.)
20-point buy.
Suggested attribute and feats thru lvl 12?
I'm thinking attributes @ 1st:
STR 12
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 16
WIS 12
CHA 11
(I don't build with dumping stats, so this was my likely stat spread based on 20-points. It may go to 25, but this way I've got a base to start from.)
Thanks!
If you can drop stats to 10 (human average, after all) you could get a better dexterity, which assuming you'll be using Weapon Finesse will apply to both attack and defence. At the mo you're looking like your attacks will miss a lot except when you use spell combat & true strike together. You could also drop int a point or two in the cause of getting a higher dex, for a magus, even for a hexcrafter save DCs are less important than hitting and not being hit.
Get slashing grace, so that you can add your Dex to damage, and dump STR to 10.
I would not take the whole trip/disarm feat chain, for the reason explained by Rerednaw.
Rather, it would be :
1 : weapon finesse (you have weapon focus for free)
3 : slashing grace
As for Arcanas, flamboyant arcana and arcane deed would give you precise stike.
Last but not least, note that, IIRC, a kapenia hexcrafter can also be a blackblade magus, something that makes your weapon much more efficient.
@Kalindlara: Home game, not PFS.
If you can drop stats to 10 (human average, after all) you could get a better dexterity, which assuming you'll be using Weapon Finesse will apply to both attack and defence. At the mo you're looking like your attacks will miss a lot except when you use spell combat & true strike together. You could also drop int a point or two in the cause of getting a higher dex, for a magus, even for a hexcrafter save DCs are less important than hitting and not being hit.
I was putting more points into INT for the AC bonus, and was concerned that too low of a STR would hinder me. I like to play more DEX-based characters personally, so I'll likely bump my DEX and lower the STR.
@Rerednaw: thanks for the suggested Feats! This is the kind of information I am looking for as I can't find builds for this archetype anywhere. I will be getting Combat Expertise for free as a house rule, so that helps with the trip/disarm chain. Don't know the party composition yet. I won't need to be the front-liner hitter, so a crowd control build seemed like fun.
@Aloysius34: I'll look at slashing grace and the flamboyant arcana. That fits with the character concept as a dancer/melee/arcane wielder. Blackblade just doesn't suite her, even though it does add some good features!
There's also a feat, Brow Gasher I think it is, that I considered but don't know if it's worth it.
I appreciate the responses! This class and archetype are a bit outside my experience. I just enjoyed what my friend was doing with his Sylph and wanted to do a variation on it.
This isn't for PFS, is it? If so, there may be some bad news.
Since both archetypes add new magus arcana to your list, they appear to be no longer compatible. There's a new FAQ.
If this is for a home game, though, don't let us stop you. ^_^
I may be wrong, but I think this is still legal because the arcana are like Gunslinger Deeds, where the acrana are subcategories.
Get slashing grace, so that you can add your Dex to damage, and dump STR to 10.
I don't think slashing grace will work since the scarf (I am assuming he'll be using a scarf) is a two-handed weapon.
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Could you link to this new FAQ? I never can find things like that :(This isn't for PFS, is it? If so, there may be some bad news.
Since both archetypes add new magus arcana to your list, they appear to be no longer compatible. There's a new FAQ.
If this is for a home game, though, don't let us stop you. ^_^
They're pretty tough to find, I'll admit - I had to go back to the original thread via my post history.
Here you go. ^_^
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I may be wrong, but I think this is still legal because the arcana are like Gunslinger Deeds, where the acrana are subcategories.This isn't for PFS, is it? If so, there may be some bad news.
Since both archetypes add new magus arcana to your list, they appear to be no longer compatible. There's a new FAQ.
If this is for a home game, though, don't let us stop you. ^_^
Both add new arcana to the list you can choose from, and one of the examples in the FAQ is "two archetypes that add new bonus feats to your list". I figured it was similar enough to that example.
For the record, this is a perfect example of two archetypes that have no reason to not stack. "Adds to your options", in my opinion, should not be a reason to prevent two archetypes from stacking. (Especially because the hexcrafter and kapenia dancer seem so flavorful as a combination...)
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That FAQ makes no sense. I don't mean that it isn't a good idea, but that it is incomprehensible.
The examples they give that work, and the examples that they give that don't seem to have very little to distinguish among them.
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That FAQ makes no sense. I don't mean that it isn't a good idea, but that it is incomprehensible.
The examples they give that work, and the examples that they give that don't seem to have very little to distinguish among them.
I believe Mr. Seifter was going to propose some clarifications to the PDT - I'm really hoping we might see some rollbacks in the case of archetypes that alter without replacing.
They will reconsider FAQs on occasion - for a while, monks needed two weapons to flurry. I'm encouraging people to - politely - discuss the issues they might have with the FAQ, in the hopes that they reconsider.
Well in that FAQ they give a pretty big condition:
However, if something alters the way the parent class feature works, such as a mime archetype that makes all bardic performances completely silent, with only visual components instead of auditory, you can’t take that archetype with an archetype that alters or replaces any of the sub-features.
So in this example one of the archetypes would have to alter the parent class feature of "Magus Arcana".
But they don't. They add "Kapenia Dancer Arcana" and "Hex Arcana" and they never replace or alter the Magus Arcana class feature.
That is true, but adding a feat to a list of bonus feats doesn't either.....
If you read it, if you have an ability that's listed like:
Magus Arcana: A Magus gets arcana.
Wand Wielder A magus can wield a wand
If it alters the italicized portion, then you'er fine, for example adding to it or taking away from it. If it alters the bold portion then you can't combine them, for example if it said that all Arcana must be cast while standing on your head. That effects the class ability not the subcategories.
Get slashing grace, so that you can add your Dex to damage, and dump STR to 10.I don't think slashing grace will work since the scarf (I am assuming he'll be using a scarf) is a two-handed weapon.
The scarf is a two-handed weapon... except it is not one for the kapenia dancer.
a bladed scarf dancer can wield a bladed scarf as a one-handed melee weapon.
Thus, slashing grace does work for them.
For the record, this is a perfect example of two archetypes that have no reason to not stack. "Adds to your options", in my opinion, should not be a reason to prevent two archetypes from stacking. (Especially because the hexcrafter and kapenia dancer seem so flavorful as a combination...)
Hero Lab lets me stack the 2 archetypes, for what that's worth.
Yeah - the Kapenia Dancers is a flavorful archetype. Probably not as powerful as a standard Magus, or Bladebound Magus, but a cool concept to play. (I tend to like unarmored, agile type characters - rogues, monks. I like the Kensai Magus, but haven't had a chance to play one. And the Flowing Monk.)
It's similar to a Kensai, but different enough with the bladed-scarf as the weapon focus. Hard to find builds posted to give me an idea of what I can do with it aside from extrapolate from a Whip-focused Magus. But the scarf doesn't have reach, though it does have trip and disarm.
The scarf is a two-handed weapon... except it is not one for the kapenia dancer.
Thus, slashing grace does work for them.
a bladed scarf dancer can wield a bladed scarf as a one-handed melee weapon.
Being able to wield it differently doesn't change the type of weapon it is. I mean by that logic I could take Weapon Versatility and use slashing grace with a club.
Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus with chosen weapon.
Benefit: Choose one kind of one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.
I would GM it that it would allow a Kapenia Dancer to utilize slashing grace because, for that class, the bladed scarf is a one-handed slashing weapon. "[They] can wield it as a one-handed melee weapon."
People are going to argue that the bladed scarf isn't a one-handed melee weapon, and normally that is true. I agree with those that argue that "as a one-handed melee weapon" does make it a one-handed melee weapon for this archetype.
Since this isn't PFS, the RAI of the feat will be sufficient for my character to use it. (The GM also likes "DEX to damage" as it is because he typically plays DEX-based characters.)
So, given that this will in all likelihood be allowed, what best utilizes the Kapenia Dancer's abilities? Flamoyant Arcana, check. What else? A Frostbite+Rime build?
Ah! Thanks, Kestral287. I guess the Frostbite+Rime is enough of a debuff that I don't need to go a trip/disarm build, then.
Any recommended Feats? If I lower my STR to 10 and raise my DEX, and (as I suspect the GM will) I can take Slashing Grace for Dex to damage, is that viable enough for melee?
i was just thinking about making a guy with a very similar build... i decided to move away from maneuvers because i could be more effective at control just using hexes, but if you want to use them for story/personalty reasons true strike really is going to be your go to spell. spellstrike becomes secondary in that build because most of the time (when you're not just hexing) you're using spell combat to cast true strike and perform a disarm/sunder/trip (and eventually more than one of these, or 1 plus regular attacks). note that all other maneuvers require a standard action, so cannot be combined with spell combat.
honestly, i don't think you even need rime... debuffing with hexes is gonna be the way to go. hexes are a nearly limitless resource (spells certainly aren't), and saving a feat is always helpful. (you can use it to gain another hex)
Thanks, nate! Yeah - action economy is pretty tight on a Magus, isn't it? And precious, precious Feats.
So you see this archetype as better for maneuvers than the Frostbite+Rime magus?
I'm not committed to either. I just saw a synergy between the Slumber Hex and the Undine's curse, and loved the Kapenia Dancer flavor - whipping out her scarf and dealing damage, disarming people &/or tripping them.
My friend's Slyph has that racial feat/trait(?) that lets her see through mists, and she has Mist Armor, and was pretty darn effective dishing out damage while having some concealment. I didn't want to steal that build, but started looking at the archetype and had a picture that sparked my interest in an Undine - and so this thread!
My bad, kestral. I thought Frostbite+Rime was the whip-Kensai thing. And I also thought that whips were for doing maneuvers.
Like I said, this class and archetype are rather new to me, hence my looking for a guide. There's Walter's, and there's The Exhaustive Guide to the Kensai, and one on the Hexcrafter, but none for the Kapenia Dancer. So I've been trying to cobble information together and work out a build.
Partly, what choices I make will depend on what the campaign is like, and what other people are playing. I tend to be a skirmisher, and liked the idea of the archetype. Hexcrafter gave me the ability to take the racial spell Undine's Curse and use it with Slumber, giving it more use than just a "you can't get a good night's sleep" spell. Not meaningful vs NPCs.
EDIT: sorry, scanning this while @ work. ;( OK - if I am hearing this correctly, Frostbite+Rime is the Kensai whip approach. But if I want to do trip/disarm, I should focus on that chain of feats and arcana. But not both. Right?
You don't have tons of feats nor arcana to spend... Especially since you are not an elf and can't take "1/6 new arcana" as you favored class bonus.
Trip or disarm are nice, but trip AND disarm seems very feat heavy. I would not bother woth disarm, as so many monsters don't have weapons anyway...
I can take Slashing Grace for Dex to damage, is that viable enough for melee?
That's 1d4+4 damage. With arcane pool used, that's something like 1d4+1d6+5 around level 8. But those are "extra" damage, in addition to whatever spell you are throwing (from shocking grasp to fireball). As soon as you get arcane deed "precise strike", however, your base damage will make your DM whine.
A note about spells :
You can't cast a lot of them. That "-1 spell per level" is really a pain. So, you should aim for the spells that are usefull for a whole encounter, like aqueous orb, haste and calcifying touch, rather than those who will deplete you magical power.
Calcifying touch (get it withtspell blending) is wonderful if you also take the kapenia "curse" arcana. Dealing 3d4 dex damage to a BBEG on a critical hit and turning it to stone in the surprise round...
This character has at 4th level a +10 on trip and disarm maneuvers using his bladed scarf (+3 BAB, +4 Dex, +1 weapon focus, +2 enhancement bonus from a +1 weapon and the arcane pool boost). That seems pretty effective to me.
Thanks, kestral! That really does help clarify things.
Looks like I'll skip the trip/disarm as a focus and build her along the lines of a Frostbite+Rime+Enforcer magus. That alone debuffs quite effectively it seems: potential fatigue, entangled, and shaken. And fits with her being an Undine, what with water and cold being associated thematically.
Trying to build her as a trip/disarm is rather feat intensive, and beyond my system mastery at the moment.
Between hexes and Frostbite, I'm probably good to begin.
She'll probably start @4th when we begin, which is great because that's about where everything starts to come online in the class.
I appreciate the time and feedback!
If anyone has experience with this archetype, let me know what you've found worked and what didn't. Thanks!
Bladed scarves don't have Reach, so they created an arcana - Elasticity - to give them Reach.
@Aloysius: I'll look at Calcifying touch. Thanks!
Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus with chosen weapon.
Benefit: Choose one kind of one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.
I would GM it that it would allow a Kapenia Dancer to utilize slashing grace because, for that class, the bladed scarf is a one-handed slashing weapon. "[They] can wield it as a one-handed melee weapon."
People are going to argue that the bladed scarf isn't a one-handed melee weapon, and normally that is true. I agree with those that argue that "as a one-handed melee weapon" does make it a one-handed melee weapon for this archetype.
Since this isn't PFS, the RAI of the feat will be sufficient for my character to use it. (The GM also likes "DEX to damage" as it is because he typically plays DEX-based characters.)
So, given that this will in all likelihood be allowed, what best utilizes the Kapenia Dancer's abilities? Flamoyant Arcana, check. What else? A Frostbite+Rime build?
How you wield it is what the weapon is. So if you don't have exotic weapon proficiency you can't use a bastard sword one handed at all (as per the FAQ), and you can't use a large bastard sword either (also as per the FAQ). However if you have EWP(bastard sword) the bastard sword is a one handed weapon for you, you can do those to previous things and you can take feats for the bastard sword that only work with one handed weapons because it is a one handed weapon for you.
Every FAQ about weapons supports this position and furthers it, including a true exception that proves the rule case the FAQ about the lance.
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For the record, this is a perfect example of two archetypes that have no reason to not stack. "Adds to your options", in my opinion, should not be a reason to prevent two archetypes from stacking. (Especially because the hexcrafter and kapenia dancer seem so flavorful as a combination...)Hero Lab lets me stack the 2 archetypes, for what that's worth.
Yeah - the Kapenia Dancers is a flavorful archetype. Probably not as powerful as a standard Magus, or Bladebound Magus, but a cool concept to play. (I tend to like unarmored, agile type characters - rogues, monks. I like the Kensai Magus, but haven't had a chance to play one. And the Flowing Monk.)
It's similar to a Kensai, but different enough with the bladed-scarf as the weapon focus. Hard to find builds posted to give me an idea of what I can do with it aside from extrapolate from a Whip-focused Magus. But the scarf doesn't have reach, though it does have trip and disarm.
Hero Lab lets us do all kinds of things. I'm hoping this FAQ doesn't motivate them to "fix" that. ^_^
I like this archetype a lot, although it doesn't go deep enough - if I recall correctly, there's a lot of class features that aren't properly accounted for (Medium/Heavy Armor, for example). It feels a little incomplete next to the kensai.
@Kalindlara: It get's Cunning Defense, just like the Kensai, so it's another armor-less Magus archetype. So no Medium or Heavy armor.
I don't know about it's long term survivability - if the INT to AC plus Mage Armor, etc., keeps up defense wise. But at these lower levels, it seems pretty good.
I like the flavor for this character over the Kensai (Gypsy vs samurai), so I wanted to make it work. I really like the Kensai iaijutsu stuff, though!
@Kalindlara: It get's Cunning Defense, just like the Kensai, so it's another armor-less Magus archetype. So no Medium or Heavy armor.
I don't know about it's long term survivability - if the INT to AC plus Mage Armor, etc., keeps up defense wise. But at these lower levels, it seems pretty good.
I like the flavor for this character over the Kensai (Gypsy vs samurai), so I wanted to make it work. I really like the Kensai iaijutsu stuff, though!
That's the thing--it can't wear armor, but still gets the Medium/Heavy Armor abilities per RAW.
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That's the thing--it can't wear armor, but still gets the Medium/Heavy Armor abilities per RAW.@Kalindlara: It get's Cunning Defense, just like the Kensai, so it's another armor-less Magus archetype. So no Medium or Heavy armor.
I don't know about it's long term survivability - if the INT to AC plus Mage Armor, etc., keeps up defense wise. But at these lower levels, it seems pretty good.
I like the flavor for this character over the Kensai (Gypsy vs samurai), so I wanted to make it work. I really like the Kensai iaijutsu stuff, though!
This is what I was referring to. ^_^
I asked my DM to remove the medium/heavy armor abilities and replace them with the dodge and mobility feats. Likewise, I asked to replace ride and intimidate with perform (dance) and acrobatics.
AC : I took mage armor and protection from evil with spell blending. Int+Dex+4 (mage armor)+4(shield)+2(protection from evil)+3(fighting defensively...) : you can tank very effectively against most ennemies.
I know the guids would rather recommand heroism or energy resistance, but they are higher level, harder to cast with your limited spell per day total and somewhat situational. While "protection from evil" and "mage armor" are both very precious 1st level spells.
Really? Hero Lab shows that Medium Armor is replaced at 7th with Knowledge Pool, and Heavy armor at 13th with Arcane Pool +4.
@Aloysius: Mage Armor and Prot vs are standard spells for almost any caster I play, definitely.
It does seem odd that Perform (dance) isn't a class skill! Or, more importantly, Acrobatics!
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Really? Hero Lab shows that Medium Armor is replaced at 7th with Knowledge Pool, and Heavy armor at 13th with Arcane Pool +4.
Those are abilities magi get at those levels regardless. Herolab is replacing the M/H armor abilities... with nothing.
It does seem odd that Perform (dance) isn't a class skill! Or, more importantly, Acrobatics!
Agreed. The Reckless trait finds its way onto a lot of my characters. ^_^
Really? Hero Lab shows that Medium Armor is replaced at 7th with Knowledge Pool, and Heavy armor at 13th with Arcane Pool +4.Those are abilities magi get at those levels regardless. Herolab is replacing the M/H armor abilities... with nothing.
^_^
Great googly-moogly - you're right! It says "replaced", but there are no other features that are in those slots aside from the ones the standard Magus receives. ?!?!? DID they leave this archetype incomplete?
Dodge and Mobility would be good choices like Aloysius suggested. Although, I'm tempted to ask for the Iaijutsu at 7th for the bump in initiative and free draw on AoO's!
How you wiel it is what the weapon is. So if you don't have exotic weapon proficiency you can't use a bastard sword one handed at all (as per the FAQ), and you can't use a large bastard sword either (also as per the FAQ). However if you have EWP(bastard sword) the bastard sword is a one handed weapon for you, you can do those to previous things and you can take feats for the bastard sword that only work with one handed weapons because it is a one handed weapon for you.
Every FAQ about weapons supports this position and furthers it, including a true exception that proves the rule case the FAQ about...
Actually the FAQ about the lance proves exactly the opposite. It does damage as a two-handed weapon even though you are wielding it 1 handed. That proves it doesn't matter how you hold it. The bastard sword is not the same because it specifically tells you it changes. There is no such wording in the scarf description.
Personally, I'm going human, but the build I'm looking at is this:
1- weapon focus[scarf] (bonus), weapon finesse (human), slashing grace [scarf]
3- flamboyant arcana, extra arcana [arcane deed: precise strike]
4- slumber hex
After that you can pretty much do whatever you want... With slashing grace and precise strike (and arcane pool enhancements) you should be doing enough damage that you can save spellstrike for special occasions; slumber gives you a solid control option that you can use over and over; and, that still leaves most of your spells for buffs, utility, and bonus damage. If you want some debuff options I'd take evil eye (and cackle) over something like rime spell or dirty trick maneuvers, though the latter is viable too... If you want to go the rime/maneuver route, think about the elasticity arcana instead of all the improved feats- it'll stop you from taking AoOs from most opponents without costing you a ton of feats...
Actually the FAQ about the lance proves exactly the opposite. It does damage as a two-handed weapon even though you are wielding it 1 handed. That proves it doesn't matter how you hold it. The bastard sword is not the same because it specifically tells you it changes. There is no such wording in the scarf description.How you wiel it is what the weapon is. So if you don't have exotic weapon proficiency you can't use a bastard sword one handed at all (as per the FAQ), and you can't use a large bastard sword either (also as per the FAQ). However if you have EWP(bastard sword) the bastard sword is a one handed weapon for you, you can do those to previous things and you can take feats for the bastard sword that only work with one handed weapons because it is a one handed weapon for you.
Every FAQ about weapons supports this position and furthers it, including a true exception that proves the rule case the FAQ about...
Are you aware of what the term "exception that proves the rule" means?
because if you are and you are aware of this FAQ then you would realize that the lance is an exception from the norm, and by being an exception actually proves the rule as it normally is.
And please note the "... and so on" -- they didn't not provide an exclusive list, merely some examples.
Personally, I'm going human, but the build I'm looking at is this:
1- weapon focus[scarf] (bonus), weapon finesse (human), slashing grace [scarf]
3- flamboyant arcana, extra arcana [arcane deed: precise strike]
4- slumber hexAfter that you can pretty much do whatever you want... With slashing grace and precise strike (and arcane pool enhancements) you should be doing enough damage that you can save spellstrike for special occasions; slumber gives you a solid control option that you can use over and over; and, that still leaves most of your spells for buffs, utility, and bonus damage. If you want some debuff options I'd take evil eye (and cackle) over something like rime spell or dirty trick maneuvers, though the latter is viable too... If you want to go the rime/maneuver route, think about the elasticity arcana instead of all the improved feats- it'll stop you from taking AoOs from most opponents without costing you a ton of feats...
Cool, nate! Yeah, I plan on taking Evil Eye because it increases the chances of both the Slumber and Undine's Curse taking effect. (The exact benefit of that is under debate. There are questions about whether the suffocation effect breaks the Slumber hex or not, and whether the Undine's Curse causes the victim to start the long, slow countdown of holding their breath or actually begins the 3-round suffocation process. WHOLE other debate that I won't get into here.)
How do you plan to get reach, if at all? And I assume your GM is also allowing Slashing Grace to work for this archetype?
Here was my thinking when I came across the racial spell Undine's Curse:
Curse a foe, which gives a 1 hour/level threat. Slumber them, causing them to fall unconscious and start to suffocate. I also had Frostbite+Rime to entangle them (debuff) and start knocking them unconscious, so I wasn't planning on relying only on Slumber, which (as it turns out) probably ends once a foe starts to take damage (since most GM's rule that suffocating is damage).
Slumber is a bad-ass Hex on its own. The potential synergy with Undine's Curse was too tempting not to explore. Even if it won't work, there's still the Frostbite+Rime threat that does, and may be worth running.
Are you aware of what the term "exception that proves the rule" means?
because if you are and you are aware of this FAQ then you would realize that the lance is an exception from the norm, and by being an exception actually proves the rule as it normally is.
And please note the "... and so on" -- they didn't not provide an exclusive list, merely some examples.
And in all those cases they are talking about damage, not being able to apply abilities that only apply to one type of weapon to another weapon just because you're holding it differently. You can't use a lance with Swashbuckler abilities just because you can use it one-handed while charging.
The character is already "illegal" by RAW anyway. Otherwhere could just ask his GM. ^_^
If you are talking about the stacking of archetypes, this is a perfectly valid build by RAW according to the FAQ because it is exactly like the Bard example that is allowed.
i'll pick up reach eventually with the elasticity arcana.
every GM i've ever played with will allow slashing grace in this build; i've seen a few people on the boards who hold to the same argument that Jodokai makes, but everyone i've played with uses the interpretation that if a feat or ability allows you "treat it as" a one handed weapon then you actually treat it as a one handed weapon, and can use it with feats like slashing grace.
how that's ruled is really a rules question, and shouldn't be sidetracking your advice thread.
its worth noting, though, that:
a) the lance does not say that you "treat it as" a one handed weapon, just that you can wield it in one hand,
b) weapon versatility also doesn't say that you "treat it as" just that you can deal a different kind of damage, and
c) the "treat it as" language has to mean that it truly counts as a category it actually isn't because otherwise slashing grace couldn't allow you to use swashbuckler abilities at all...