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OP: there are many exotic weapons in the game that are extremely lacklustre. The answer for a lot of builds is 'good for nothing'.
The main advantage of the katana is many races and classes get it for free. It's a very good weapon if you don't have to pay the feat tax for it.
Also:
Using a katana for 'roleplay reasons' outside of an eastern-themed game is edging near red-flag in my experience. It never ends well.
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Katanas are notoriously underpowered in d20 systems.
But seriously, the Katana is only there because they introduced an array of uniquely Eastern Weapons (including some extremely dubious ones like the Seven Branched Sword) and it would be a bit odd if Katanas weren't on the list. Otherwise a Scimitar, as a catch-all D&D term for a curved sword usable in one or both hands, would easily have sufficed as a "counts-as" Katana.
And not that it comes up that often, but I have to wonder what makes a Katana any more "Deadly" in a Coup De Grace than (say) an axe, a scimitar, or a dagger. The former two were of course historically used in beheadings, and the latter was used so often to dispatch fallen armored knights that it evolved into a variant known as the misericorde (from the Latin for "act of mercy").
Are you not noticing the 18-20 crit range?
And as anathema as the subject may be to this venue, you might be using a katana because of you know.... roleplay reasons. Not everyone wants to be a Death knockoff.
...He did mention the +1 crit range. Twice.
"Anathema to this venue." Spare me. I've never seen you pass up an opportunity to call someone a powergamer who doesn't care about roleplaying.
Are you not noticing the 18-20 crit range?
And as anathema as the subject may be to this venue, you might be using a katana because of you know.... roleplay reasons. Not everyone wants to be a Death knockoff.
It is basically the exact same as a scimitar except it gets an average of +1 damage.
Basically- not really worth the feat. Even if you judge it as a 2 handed martial weapon, it is actually worse than the falchion (which gets an average of +0.5 more damage).
And deadly is not really that important since the coup de grace attack often overkill anyway.
You might find some vague use as an oversized weapon, but that is rather much a niche build.
Overall- slightly more powerful scimitar, so if you get it no reason to complain...but little reason to seek it out except for flavor.
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Maybe I'm not playing the same game as you, but flavor is an important consideration to me..
Overall- slightly more powerful scimitar, so if you get it no reason to complain...but little reason to seek it out except for flavor.
Of course...but I am keeping my comment to that to be respectful. I don't want to be 'the guy' that complains about 'that guy'.
Still...yeah, another disappointing exotic weapon. What else is new?
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It's glorious nippon steel, folded ten-thousand times over, good for slicing any enemy with ease.
But in all honesty, it's just a Falchion with such a slight reduction in average damage that it isn't even worth counting. Pick it for flavor reasons (or if you're using the Samurai, who is specifically good with katana).
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The larger die size matters more if stuff like enlarge person or lead blades is on the table.
1d8 katana going to 2d6 is a tad bit better than the 1d6 scimitar going to 1d8.
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The larger die size matters more if stuff like enlarge person or lead blades is on the table.
1d8 katana going to 2d6 is a tad bit better than the 1d6 scimitar going to 1d8.
Still, is that better than the bastard sword? It gets an extra +2 average damage when oversized, and that difference just grows bigger when you add more size things on top.
EDIT- and if you aren't using a size build...why wouldn't you use a nodachi instead? Same flavor (japanese blade), same crit range, but better hit dice at a d10. But it is an actual martial weapon, and you do not have to look up bastard sword faqs to see if you are qualified to take weapon focus and such.
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It is well in Line with several exotic weapons and not, by far, the worst. If you had expected the 3d8 17-20 x3 weapon that some folks seem to think that the Greatest weapon of all times should be, then it is no good. But compared to other exotic weapons it is sort of in the middle. Exotic weapons are not that great in PF.
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I dont assume Precise Strike is going to work when taken as a magus deed, as it can be iffy on whether a GM will allow it, particularly in PFS.
Having gotten a strength magus to 11, I kinda think Precise Strike is overkill, and I would rather have spent more resources on versatility, but that's a discussion for another time.
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Ninja, Samurai, Clerics & Warpriests of Shizuru or anyone else who gets similar effects get Katana for free; as far as single-handed weapons go, it's the (second) best out there, due to it's equal-to-Longsword damage die and 18-20/x2 Crit range.
Wanderer Monk, Ancestral Arms Half-Elf, and Tengu all can get it for free, as well... only problem is, the Falcata exists, and at 1d8, 19-20/x3 BEFORE Improved Critical/Keen, it's actually better than the Katana; so, if given the choice between them why wouldn't you take the Falcata instead?
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I houseruled katanas as finesse weapons.
Ninja, Samurai, Clerics & Warpriests of Shizuru or anyone else who gets similar effects get Katana for free; as far as single-handed weapons go, it's the (second) best out there, due to it's equal-to-Longsword damage die and 18-20/x2 Crit range.
Wanderer Monk, Ancestral Arms Half-Elf, and Tengu all can get it for free, as well... only problem is, the Falcata exists, and at 1d8, 19-20/x3 BEFORE Improved Critical/Keen, it's actually better than the Katana; so, if given the choice between them why wouldn't you take the Falcata instead?
And with the half elf, you might have to make a hard choice between that and a +2 to will saves (and another +2 vs the 'kill your whole party' saves). That can mean a lot for classes that only have will as a poor save, like a lot of melee classes.
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duh duh duh, yeah... absolutely notin.... guard your say it again, brotha....
Why take any weapon for that matter? If you don't like it, pick something else.
If you want to be a samurai, you should take it...
If your character is more Landsknecht, you should take a polearm and a rapier. Choice is fun. Don't get all hung up on the size of the die and enjoy the game.
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It is well in Line with several exotic weapons and not, by far, the worst. If you had expected the 3d8 17-20 x3 weapon that some folks seem to think that the Greatest weapon of all times should be, then it is no good. But compared to other exotic weapons it is sort of in the middle. Exotic weapons are not that great in PF.
Literally no one thinks this. There are several exotic weapons that people agree are worth a feat and none of them are 3d8 17-20 x3 weapons.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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It is well in Line with several exotic weapons and not, by far, the worst. If you had expected the 3d8 17-20 x3 weapon that some folks seem to think that the Greatest weapon of all times should be, then it is no good. But compared to other exotic weapons it is sort of in the middle. Exotic weapons are not that great in PF.Literally no one thinks this. There are several exotic weapons that people agree are worth a feat and none of them are 3d8 17-20 x3 weapons.
I think that was a riff on the katana-fan meme.
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It's glorious nippon steel, folded ten-thousand times over, good for slicing any enemy with ease.
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Being awesome?! A katana really offers no mechanical advantage over a European sword, and even has some disadvantages when you consider the tiny guard and lack of pommel. You just take it so that when you kill someone, the DM can say that your enemy stands for a split second, befuddled, as your blade passes painlessly through him, before his body falls to the ground in neatly carved pieces like a Christmas ham.
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The problem is that the concept of weapons proficiency tiers is pretty much complete bunk. Some get tricky when you get into grappling, but for swords of any type the pointy bit goes into the enemy and if you swing it you want to hit with the sharp side. This is not substantially more complicated than using a club. Indeed, much sword practice would be conducted with clubs. Clubs weighted to be like swords, but still 1d6 bludgeoning simple weapons.
Proper edge alignment is critical on a sword and a nonfactor on a club or mace. Whether the difference is worth a feat is debatable.
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I think it's reasonable to say that stuff like the falcata, fauchard, or elven branch spear SHOULD have an opportunity cost attached to them. Like, some exotic weapons are really freaking good, to the point where if you didn't have to pay for them they would out class all similar options. It's just the rest... aren't.
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I think it's reasonable to say that stuff like the falcata, fauchard, or elven branch spear SHOULD have an opportunity cost attached to them. Like, some exotic weapons are really freaking good, to the point where if you didn't have to pay for them they would out class all similar options. It's just the rest... aren't.
Really what it should be is making a dividing line between "Exotic" meaning weird/out there weapons like the Battle Ladder and "Exotic" meaning "Superior" weapons like the Falcata.
The former is included in any Martial class that has Martial weapon proficiency (or at the least 1-3 of your choice), and the latter requires "Superior Weapon Proficiency".
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Its a perfect tool for killing redneck rapists in the basement of a pawn shop.
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Because its an iconic weapon found in the hands of many samurai caste members (who can use it for free without requiring EWP) in the Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (PFRPG). It is so iconic many unique and powerful examples exist as enchanted weapons, cursed weapons, haunted weapons even ancestral relics (something akin to Weapons of Legacy with abilities that level up with the wielder).
Is it mechanically optimal versus any other weapon? Its not terrible as long as it doesn't cost a feat to use. Its not supposed to be the optimizers best weapon choice. In the right setting its the perfect fit, that's the real point.
only problem is, the Falcata exists, and at 1d8, 19-20/x3 BEFORE Improved Critical/Keen, it's actually better than the Katana; so, if given the choice between them why wouldn't you take the Falcata instead?
If you build your character to crit, be it because of critical feats or because of the magus spellstrike, I do prefer to get the 10% chances (with keen) that the Katana will give over the Falcata. Ans you get it for free with some class (Samurai, Ninja...) so i don't fin it quite underwhelming.
The larger die size matters more if stuff like enlarge person or lead blades is on the table.
1d8 katana going to 2d6 is a tad bit better than the 1d6 scimitar going to 1d8.
Still, is that better than the bastard sword? It gets an extra +2 average damage when oversized, and that difference just grows bigger when you add more size things on top.
EDIT- and if you aren't using a size build...why wouldn't you use a nodachi instead? Same flavor (japanese blade), same crit range, but better hit dice at a d10. But it is an actual martial weapon, and you do not have to look up bastard sword faqs to see if you are qualified to take weapon focus and such.
The 18-20 (jumping to a delicious 15-20) crit range would be main reason to use it over a bastard sword.
The nodachi is a two-handed weapon, which means there's stuff it doesn't work with (like magus, which I believe has already been called out above).
(Heh. As an aside: I didn't realize until a couple months ago that the katana actually had different stats from a bastard sword. I'd assumed for years that the weapons were identical, just like in 3.X.)
A katana's outright better than a longsword once you've spent the feat to use it 1-handed.
Hmmm. 4E actually replaced the Exotic category with the Superior category, and superior weapons were simply outright better than martial weapons.
The 3.X/Pathfinder Exotic category's much more grab-baggy - it's a mix of weapons that are slightly superior (katana or bastard sword), weapons that aren't any better than simple weapons but have a special property (most monk & performance weapons), and weapons that are clearly superior (such as the falcata).
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It is to the scimitar what the bastard sword is to a longsword. (marginally better as it's a larger % increase)
It's better than a falcata if you have a reason for crits other than pure damage such as a Swashbuckler or if you have the later crit feats. Besides - the falcata's x3 will often waste damage on overkill.
Now - is the katana inherently better than every other sword like some anime fans want? No. The closest I might come is houserule that all katanas are required to be masterwork. (Japan was iron poor - so if you were making a sword, it generally wasn't worth making a cheapo one. But they weren't better - just different - from the best European blades.)
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I'd honestly love to see the roleplaying concept that absolutely required a katana, to the point that even the wakizashi and nodachi couldn't replace it.
A niten master? It's hard to dual-wield nodachi, and a wakazashi isn't a samurai's weapon, as commoners may carry it.
I think that was a riff on the katana-fan meme.It is well in Line with several exotic weapons and not, by far, the worst. If you had expected the 3d8 17-20 x3 weapon that some folks seem to think that the Greatest weapon of all times should be, then it is no good. But compared to other exotic weapons it is sort of in the middle. Exotic weapons are not that great in PF.Literally no one thinks this. There are several exotic weapons that people agree are worth a feat and none of them are 3d8 17-20 x3 weapons.
Yep somthing like that. The katana is the Paladin if swords. Lots if folks Think they know just how to do it:)
The wakizashi most certainly is a samurai's weapon. Merchants could also carry them, but it was a core part of the daisho that marked one as a samurai.I'd honestly love to see the roleplaying concept that absolutely required a katana, to the point that even the wakizashi and nodachi couldn't replace it.A niten master? It's hard to dual-wield nodachi, and a wakazashi isn't a samurai's weapon, as commoners may carry it.
Re-read what you just wrote. If you don't have a katana and you are just using two wakazashi, you're not a samurai, just a merchant who is afraid of bandits.
Hence the need for a katana.
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So you park a wakizashi on the size margin between the two and call it a katana (hence the o/ko distinction). Problem solved.
Of course, realistically you're probably building this as a samurai, who has actual mechanical reason to use a katana-- but that's drifting away from Lazar's point a bit.
No, actually it's a rogue who's passing as a samural --- I seem to recall one of them in Kurosawa's Seven Samurai. Using an o-wakazashi won't do that, precisely because it looks like a jumped-up merchant trying to skirt the line.
The main point, of course, is that katana carry cultural baggage that go beyond their in-game statistics, and it's perfectly valid to use that cultural baggage as part of a role-playing concept.
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If you play a samurai, then you should HAVE a katana, but you should avoid ever actually USING it.
Depends on the time period, I think. Hard to duel with a spear.
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being a katana
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If you play a samurai, then you should HAVE a katana, but you should avoid ever actually USING it.Depends on the time period, I think. Hard to duel with a spear.
Tell that to Gregor Clegane.
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Tell that to Gregor Clegane.If you play a samurai, then you should HAVE a katana, but you should avoid ever actually USING it.Depends on the time period, I think. Hard to duel with a spear.
I'm not familiar with that family. What part of Japan is Clegane-sama from?
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As an exotic one handed you're basically spending a feat for the Deadly property and +1 crit range, which might be nice for a CdG focused build... but if you are building for CdGs wouldn't you be better off with a weapon with a better crit multiplier? The two features are asynergistic with each other anyways, since CdGs autocrit.
I've never seen anyone survive a Coup de Grace. Is that something people actually build for?