Sense8


Television

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I am two episodes in so far, and so far I am loving it. It is slow, yes, but the end of the second episode sees both a jolt of adrenaline and some of our questions are being answered. I'm looking forward to more... in a few hours, after I wake up.

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I saw it on Netflix and added it to my queue, but haven't watched any yet. It was described as being about people who could feel what the others are experiencing (or something like that), and the picture showed two people sword fighting. So I'm not quite sure what to expect.

How would you describe it?


RainyDayNinja wrote:

I saw it on Netflix and added it to my queue, but haven't watched any yet. It was described as being about people who could feel what the others are experiencing (or something like that), and the picture showed two people sword fighting. So I'm not quite sure what to expect.

How would you describe it?

I'm only 4 episodes in, but it seems to run with the premise:

Possible spoiler:
of a group of 8 people who spontaneously (or with a little push) becoming increasingly linked telepathically, able to draw upon each other skills and sensations.

Some of the characters get less screentime than others and are developing slower, but they seem to be catching up. I'm enjoying all of the characters and the actors' performances, but Nomi (Jamie Clayton) and Sun (Doona Bae) are really knocking it out of the park, and Amanita (Freema Agyeman) is just awesome (not enough screentime though). For Nomi's arc (so far), be prepared with both readied tissues and possibly something inanimate to punch in rage; right now, I hate Nomi's mom more than any other fictional character I can think of.

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I admit I binged this show (finished it up this morning before work).

I enjoyed the hell out of it and am looking forward to season 2 ... which sucks since season 1 came out at the end of last week so it will be a bit of a wait. :(

As to the previous possible spoiler ...

Spoiler:
Think of it more as the capability to share thoughts, skills, language, sensations, memories, etc ... basically one step off a communal mind. And it seems it is not so much sharing each others skills as being able to step into each other so the vessel can utilize the skill set. At least that was the impression I got from a couple of instances (especially the back to back skill trade off between Wolfgang and Lito in a later episode).

And yes, the characters do all develop nicely. And all the actors are really doing an incredible job. I am hoping the all around quality (acting, writing, etc) holds when the next season rolls around.

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Amazing, amazing show. My husband and I bingewatched it in 3 days!

And I didn't find it slow at all. There were a lot of heavy scenes (and a huge amount of LGBT content), but the action scenes, when they did happen, were just over-the-top awesome. I loved all the jumping in and out of bodies and the various skill sets the members of the cluster brought to the group. Cool show!


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I'm now through episode 6, and the Wachowski's are definitely re-exploring and building on the themes of identity and interconnectedness from Cloud Atlas (haven't read the book) and The Matrix. But like Netflix's Daredevil, they have the room to flesh those thoughts out and play with them, something they couldn't have done in a 2+ or 3 hour movie... and almost certainly couldn't have gotten funded from a movie studio.

But then I really really like both seasons of the philosophy-heavy transhumanist Ghost in the Shell anime, so YMMV.

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I'm really digging the show. I stayed up several hours past my bedtime last night watching "just one more episode" and imagine I'll be doing something similar tonight. I hope it gets a quick second season pick-up like Daredevil did.


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I'm just about to start episode 5, and it's gotten even better. The storylines aren't as separate as it first appeared. Some are linked thematically (Sun, Kala and Capheus tackle different aspects of medicine fraud), others more literally (Will and Nomi and their fears of insanity). The entire production is first rate, from the direction to the acting to the music. I said it was slow, but that was because of the number of storylines. Each character has a storyline, and there is an overarching ninth which unites them. I really cannot recommend this show enough.


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Up to episode 10.

It's decent.

I keep forgetting half the characters because the screentime they get is parceled out weirdly.

The 8 characters things works both to its benefit and detriment IMO.

On the one hand, when they're all interacting with each other and taking advantage of the Collective, it's really neat. And some of the storylines are very interesting (my favorites are Sun's, Lito's,and Wolfgang's so far).

On the other hand, every time you start to get really invested in one character's story, or a pair's interaction (Will and Riley's and Wolfgang and Kala's especially), it swaps to someone else for what feels like forever.

And some of the storylines are waaaay weaker than the rest (Riley's especially stands out as being fairly boring for most of the show. I kept spacing out on her bits.).

I give it about a 7/10.


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I just finished episode seven.

S$&% just got real.


Stolen the name from Planescape

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Set wrote:
I've had some really annoying song by 4 non-blondes stuck in my head for two days. binge-watching Sense8 until my brain turned to meme-suggestible mush.

Damn it.

I got home from work at 3 am and saw Set's post which reminded me about this series so I decided to make "dinner' and watch it to pass out.

BIG MISTAKE.

I am on episode 5 now its 7 am and I have not gone to bed yet.

I plan to make an oyster omelette (yes it's a thing) for what is now breakfast and watch two more episodes before I take a 1 hour power nap then go back to work. Goodbye REM sleep.

As to how to Mind Meld the song out of my head I have taken the precautionary steps by listening to Dean Martin and The Imperial March from The Empire Strikes Back remixed by Galantis as I shower.

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As orgy scenes go that was pretty artistically done.


baron arem heshvaun wrote:
Set wrote:
I've had some really annoying song by 4 non-blondes stuck in my head for two days. binge-watching Sense8 until my brain turned to meme-suggestible mush.

Damn it.

I got home from work at 3 am and saw Set's post which reminded me about this series so I decided to make "dinner' and watch it to pass out.

BIG MISTAKE.

I am on episode 5 now its 7 am and I have not gone to bed yet.

I plan to make an oyster omelette (yes it's a thing) for what is now breakfast and watch two more episodes before I take a 1 hour power nap then go back to work. Goodbye REM sleep.

As to how to Mind Meld the song out of my head I have taken the precautionary steps by listening to Dean Martin and The Imperial March from The Empire Strikes Back remixed by Galantis as I shower.

it has your seal of approval?

watches


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baron arem heshvaun wrote:
As orgy scenes go that was pretty artistically done.

double watches

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Knoq Nixoy wrote:
Stolen the name from Planescape

Ummm ... no. The term "sensate" dates back to the 15th century, so not sure how it would have been "stolen". There really is no correlation between the Society of Sensation in Planescape and the show, other that the focus on sensation. Both the show and the faction in Planescape made use of an appropriate term to embody the theme of the show/faction.


Episode eight was the best so far. Thrilling scenes with Sun and William - by far the coolest I've seen so far. Having not only one person in the body but other people providing insight, observations, and so forth was awesome. I look forward to more.

Really enjoying this overall, though I understand why some critics have panned it. Very much the opposite of the more simple direct stuff in most TV. Each character has their own arc, their own life, their own problems, and those problems don't disappear just for the convenience of the plot. There isn't a 'main' character, though Nomi comes close.

The one thing I'd like to see is a bit more of the less physical characters helping out their fellows. So far Will and Sun have been hugely instrumental in protecting the others, but they haven't given much back. Addictive though.


I sometimes get irritated at the pacing...but I can't stop watching, so they're doing something right (In the middle of Ep 10 now).

I wonder if 'Nomi' is a derivative of 'No Mike'.


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Finished the series.

It's really lucky for them that Sun and Wolfgang are part of the crew because if they weren't everybody would be dead several times over.

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zylphryx wrote:
the Society of Sensation in Planescape made use of an appropriate term to embody the theme of the show/faction.

The Aasimar Sensate pictured in 2nd Edition is still among the best art I have seen for an Aasimar.


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I've finished the season. I'm at the point where I don't know whether to be sad that it's over or happy that it happened. I suspect I won't know until I find out if Season Two is greenlit. Please make with the greenlighting, Netflix.

@baron arem heshvaun: yes, the orgy scene has had a few rewatches. Ahem. It is indeed very tasteful, and the song (Demons by Fatboy Slim ft. Macy Gray) was perfect.

@Peter Stewart: they do, and it is AWESOME. I would have never expected that Kala, of all people, would-- I may have said too much.

@Ramarren: I hadn't even thought of that. I thought she just watched Showgirls a few too many times.


Nomi = know me.

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I think the showrunners are very fortunate to be releasing Sense8 on Netflix vs network. I am pretty sure the pacing of this show would have gotten it cancelled on a weekly release format. It takes a long time for this thing to wind up; like a really long time. Perhaps that was intentional due to release format and it does provide the feeling of this experience taking hold slowly in the lives of the characters.

I didnt get a consistent feel overall, which I think Sense8 could certainly use. I felt many action/comedy scenes were eye roll worthy. The concept and story are definitely intriguing though, so it was a pleasant experience overall. My bottom line is that the premise is promising, the talent is right, but the biggest opportunity is with execution. I think they can tighten this thing up for a bigger win if Sense8 makes a second season.


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The Wachowskis and JMS are very clear that the show wouldn't have been picked up on any other network. They are probably right; the show seems tailor made for binge watching.

The most common complaint I've heard is that the show is too slow and too disjointed. I don't think that either will be a problem now that the plot is fully underway.

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Rynjin wrote:

Finished the series.

It's really lucky for them that Sun and Wolfgang are part of the crew because if they weren't everybody would be dead several times over.

Calpheus (sp?) 'Van Damme', in particular, seems to have zero sense of self-preservation, and if not for Sun, whom, IMO, he's totally taking for granted (and did get righteously smacked down the one time she wasn't there to fight for him), would be so dead that it's actually improbable that he survived as long as he has thus far.

It would also be nice if Sun was needed to contribute something other than spectacular beatdowns. She *does* have a degree in business and experience running finances for a multinational company...

Riley Blue, unfortunately, has been the one of the eight who isn't really contributing much in the way of skills. Kickboxing, gun skills, superhacker, cop, pick some locks, hotwire some cars, driving skills, being 'really good at lying', making bombs out of stuff lying around in a kitchen, etc. And then there's Riley, whose contribution so far has been a nice concert that everyone got to listen in on, followed by a nosebleed. I'm hoping she proves to be more useful to the group, if not through her skillset, then through some sort of grounding / emotional focus thing, in upcoming seasons.

For 12 hours-ish of programming, I'm pretty amazed at how *little* we've seen of these people and their storylines. Most of them have little forward progress of their individual storylines (and a few seem to have gone backwards!).

Spoiler:

Gorski may or may not still be suspended, or even fired, and we know bupkiss about the little girl ghost (Sarah Patrell?) he's been seeing (and god forbid she's part of another cluster, this show can't even keep up with the current gang of eight and their families and friends!). Oh yeah, and if he ever knows where he is, such as by hearing someone speaking with an Aussie / Welsh / Joisey accent, or opens his eyes and sees one of the others that Whispers doesn't already know about, he's giving away that information. Bummer. Enjoy the blindfold and earmuffs, dude, because we can't let you know where this boat is going...

Leto may be about to lose his macho actor cred, if outed, and assuming he doesn't 'get in front of it' by admitting that some abusive ex-boyfriend of his current girl-toy is trying to blackmail him with photoshopped pictures (if he goes with the lie, which seems his first inclination) or with real pictures of him with his boyfriend (claiming that he is so utterly macho that he needs multiple lovers, because no single person can keep up with him, and he's found that having two girlfriends is a recipe for disaster).

Kala is still engaged, against all odds, because she's kept quiet the seventeen *billion* times one of her family members asked about whether or not she loved What's-His-Name (Raj?).

Nomi remains a fugitive, and quite possibly on a terrorist watch-list! (and it's spread to put even her girlfriend's mom under scrutiny!)

Wolfgang seems to be missing the 'super-empathy / not good at killing' part of the whole sensate package. His annoying friend might die (or cling to life in a coma). He may or may not have a lot of crooks out to get him, or he might end up at the top of the heap when the dust settles and the criminal power vacuum he's created starts filling up. (For that matter, Sun doesn't seem terribly empathic 'No Kill I' either, since she straight up kicked some security guard off of a railing to a probably fatal plummet. Although, logically, if one is part of an evolutionary branch of humanity that is A) bad at killing and B) getting killed by folk that *aren't* bad at killing, perhaps evolving to include in one's eight-person 'clusters' a few people who *aren't* bad at killing would be a sensible development...)

Van Damme has the remaining half to two-thirds of a psychotic machete-wielding gang out to kill him, and, they know where his mom lives. Yeah, that's going to end well, unless crimeboss hires her as a nanny for spawn-of-crimeboss or something and she lives in his stately manor surrounded by his armed guards next season.

Sun's not getting out of jail anytime soon. On the upside, her supporting cast of family and friends is down to a brother (whose gonna die the next time she gets her hands on him, I suspect), a mentor and a dog.

And Riley. We don't really know why returning to Iceland gave her a nosebleed. We don't really know if her 'dead' baby is actually alive somewhere, being experimented on (since she lost consciousness dying of exposure with a baby and woke up in a hospital without a baby). She certainly *thinks* it died of exposure before she was rescued, but the people who rescued her and told her that aren't 100% trustworthy...

*Everyone* is sort of in media res right now, with unresolved (or flat out unexplored, like Will's ghost girl) stuff lingering in the air.

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Binged this on Sunday, it is an amazing but I agree there's a lot more story to tell and I feel that sometimes they waste screentime I'd like to see used for character development.

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Is there really an orgy scene? Because, you know, my wife uses the same Netflix account, and I can't delete my viewing history.


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Watch it together. Together.

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RainyDayNinja wrote:
Is there really an orgy scene? Because, you know, my wife uses the same Netflix account, and I can't delete my viewing history.

It's nowhere as fun as most hetero men would hope it is so I would not worry, most Carl's Jr commercials have more heat.

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baron arem heshvaun wrote:
RainyDayNinja wrote:
Is there really an orgy scene? Because, you know, my wife uses the same Netflix account, and I can't delete my viewing history.
It's nowhere as fun as most hetero men would hope it is so I would not worry, most Carl's Jr commercials have more heat.

All in all the show is certainly NSFW (sex, drugs, violence ... the classic trifecta), but honestly, if your wife gets concerned over the orgy scene, then you may have to limit yourself to PG only content at best. ;)

Seriously though, RDN, watch the series with your wife. From the times I have met her, she has struck me as someone who would enjoy a good story in the sci-fi/sci-fantasy genre.


RainyDayNinja wrote:
Is there really an orgy scene? Because, you know, my wife uses the same Netflix account, and I can't delete my viewing history.

Not just an orgy scene, a primarily homosexual orgy scene.

Of course I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why this is an issue, because unless your wife is going to view each episode in full up to the one that has it, and the point in that episode it shows up...I don't see the problem.

It's not like watching it then slaps a big label on top that says "THERE IS NUDITY AND SEX IN GREAT QUANTITIES AT 10 MINUTES INTO THIS AND HE WATCHED IT OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO."

Of course I also don't see the problem even if it is unless your wife is ridiculously possessive and doesn't even like you looking at women (or men) you could never possibly touch, in which case stay away from ever watching anything from HBO, Showtime, Netflix originals, or anything else with nudity I guess.


Rynjin wrote:
RainyDayNinja wrote:
Is there really an orgy scene? Because, you know, my wife uses the same Netflix account, and I can't delete my viewing history.

Not just an orgy scene, a primarily homosexual orgy scene.

Of course I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why this is an issue, because unless your wife is going to view each episode in full up to the one that has it, and the point in that episode it shows up...I don't see the problem.

It's not like watching it then slaps a big label on top that says "THERE IS NUDITY AND SEX IN GREAT QUANTITIES AT 10 MINUTES INTO THIS AND HE WATCHED IT OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO."

Of course I also don't see the problem even if it is unless your wife is ridiculously possessive and doesn't even like you looking at women (or men) you could never possibly touch, in which case stay away from ever watching anything from HBO, Showtime, Netflix originals, or anything else with nudity I guess.

there are people like that out there.


baron arem heshvaun wrote:
RainyDayNinja wrote:
Is there really an orgy scene? Because, you know, my wife uses the same Netflix account, and I can't delete my viewing history.
It's nowhere as fun as most hetero men would hope it is so I would not worry, most Carl's Jr commercials have more heat.

...you just gave me socks for Christmas.

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Everyone who's not a Hobbit needs socks my friend.

Happy Hanukkah!


Knoq Nixoy wrote:
Stolen the name from Planescape

Stole the idea from the Specials. James Gunn should get a royalty.


You know what REALLY bothered me about the show? The ending makes no sense.

Spoiler:
Why didn't our intrepid band KILL DR. CRAZY? They had like 6 different opportunities to pop a cap in his ass during the finale, and every time decided "Let me run away from the old, unarmed, unguarded (because Sun killed all his guards, at least the ones in the immediate vicinity) man.

Is there an answer I missed besides "Because there wouldn't be a plot next season"?


Rynjin wrote:

You know what REALLY bothered me about the show? The ending makes no sense.

** spoiler omitted **

They are newborn Sensates able to take on legions of guards, thugs, and so forth. He's a sensate with years (probably decades) of experience. You think he's going to roll over?

The fight, when it comes, is going to be epic.


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Rynjin wrote:

You know what REALLY bothered me about the show? The ending makes no sense.

** spoiler omitted **

I agree with Peter, and also:

Spoiler:
Will was nowhere near him, and probably didn't know where to find him. There would have been way more guards around the sensitive areas, which would include the command centre. He was outnumbered and outgunned, so the smart move was to do exactly what he did, namely getting out of Dodge once the main objective was accomplished. If either he or Whispers had been looking somewhere else for that couple of seconds, it would have been a clean getaway.


Peter Stewart wrote:
Rynjin wrote:

You know what REALLY bothered me about the show? The ending makes no sense.

** spoiler omitted **

They are newborn Sensates able to take on legions of guards, thugs, and so forth. He's a sensate with years (probably decades) of experience. You think he's going to roll over?

The fight, when it comes, is going to be epic.

Do you know WHY they're able to do that?

Because there's 7 of them with useful skills, including a cop, a ruthless martial artist, and a German mobster who keeps an RPG in his trunk for giggles. And the body that was present was that of the (most likely) in shape member of the crew.

Versus an old man who has (seemingly) already killed off/lobotomized his entire Sensate, so has nobody else' skills to draw on but his own. Or, if we're being generous, has only 5 people remaining to help him. Unless I'm misunderstanding the events that are taking place somehow.

And even if that were the case...remember that whole bit about how Sensates are supposedly weak because rarely does anyone with killer instinct become part of one? Since Dr. Crazy is obviously one of those, what are the chances that the rest of his Sensate also possess both the instinct and skill to kill? Because HE doesn't have any fighting skills himself.

They wouldn't have been able to lock eyes if they weren't near each other. He was what, 30 feet away on a different walkway? Know the cool thing about guns? They're ranged weapons. Both Will and Wolfgang are good shots. Do the math.

Likewise he was even CLOSER when Dr. Crazy pulled his little stunt with the helicopter. Could've whipped out the pistol and taken a few potshots at him then too.

Or had Capheus perform an epic maneuver with the ambulance.

Or, when they were "trapped" on the mountaintop, just waited for him to show up, let Sun take over and wipe out all the guards, then snap his neck.

There were a ton of better solutions than what they went with, except if they did that they'd need to come up with a different plot for next season.


So everyone keeps bringing up Jonas talking about how sensates are "bad at killing" and are so much better and more empathetic and yadda yadda than humans...

Did none of you catch that his entire speech there was utter b%%#@&&%?!?

Hell it was interspersed with shots of a sensate performing a lot of violence and killing people. Jonas thinks that he and his "kind" are so elevated and so above humanity the same way a white man in olden times would have talked about being above the "savage coloreds". I'm willing to bet Whispers has had many, many years to absorb the skills of his cluster (even if they're gone now they were born when he was so at least what... 50s?) And will show off quite a bit of skill when he finally does.


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Ryuko wrote:


Did none of you catch that his entire speech there was utter b+#~*~++?!?

That's one of the most interesting things about this show. The Professor X figure is not always right. It's the same with Yrsa, who tried to help Riley and only succeeded in screwing with her head. It shows us that for all they can do, sensates are every bit as fallible as non-sensates.


Evan Tarlton wrote:
Ryuko wrote:


Did none of you catch that his entire speech there was utter b+#~*~++?!?
That's one of the most interesting things about this show. The Professor X figure is not always right. It's the same with Yrsa, who tried to help Riley and only succeeded in screwing with her head. It shows us that for all they can do, sensates are every bit as fallible as non-sensates.

It may be more than 'Professor X is wrong. It's quite possible 'Professor X is Lying'. Possibly to try and mold the cluster to his views, possibly because Whispers already has his hooks into him.


I'm through episode 9. I love the pacing and the way they tell the stories. I love the quiet interactions between characters as they help eachother through their moral dilemmas and lows. I feel like they haven't quite integrated all of the characters with eachother yet. Lito just had his first memorable interaction with another, though they at least hinted he was beginning to understand what was going on, and Kala and Wolfgang haven't really interacted with anyone else. It has felt like their stories have been too isolated for the greater premise of everyone sharing. I was pretty disappointed when they used Will instead of Wolfgang to unlock Nomi's handcuffs for that reason. They could have used the professional locksmith to break her out and it would have at least tied him in.

Riley is probably my favorite character. Perhaps its because I think she is one of the most gorgeous woman I have ever seen.

I look forward to finishing the show tonight.

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I just binge-watched the show over the last few days and really enjoyed the hell out of it. I did feel like it was left very incomplete with no sense of real closure (which is what a lot of Set's complaints amount to)...but then, I expect we'll get a second season, so I'm less upset than I might be.

As for Wolfgang being separate from the rest, he is, and the last couple of episodes really explore why in a way I find really neat, and don't think wold be nearly as cool or effective if we hadn't only seen him in a relatively relaxed and friendly environment for most of the rest of the show.

Someone mentioned earlier that only one person could use the abilities of a cluster member at a time. That's...inaccurate, I think. Sun and Capheus both fight with her skills simultaneously, for example.

On Sensates being bad at killing: Yeah...that's a complete load of crap, people in general are mostly bad at killing, but Sensates certainly don't seem any less inclined to be killers than anyone else. As others have noted, Jonas is just flat-out lying there. Or possibly merely mistaken, I suppose. There are a number of indications that, while 'on their side' in at least some sense, he's not precisely trustworthy, and he and other Clusters appear to disagree on a number of issues.

I've gotta agree that Riley is...less useful than most others this season. Everyone else has useful skills (Capheus and Kala a bit less so, but Kala's are probably gonna be very handy going forward, and Capheus is at least an excellent getaway driver and has been very emotionally supportive for several of the others), but Riley hasn't demonstrated many as of yet (she's decent emotional support, but Capheus is probably better). Hopefully she'll be more helpful going forward. She might easily have skills that haven't really come into play yet, after all (since her story has mostly been self-contained and all we know from it is that she can't fight and is an excellent DJ).

Rynjin wrote:

Finished the series.

It's really lucky for them that Sun and Wolfgang are part of the crew because if they weren't everybody would be dead several times over.

I'd partially disagree. I don't think anyone ever borrowed Wolfgang's skills for anything Sun couldn't have done. He has skills she doesn't, but they're never actually borrowed by anyone.

They would be pretty screwed without Sun, though. And, to a lesser extent, Will.

Now, for spoilers. These spoil the last episode.

Spoiler:
I'm pretty sure Whispers is not, in fact, lobotomizing his own Cluster. Indeed, he can't be. The ages don't synch up. What he's doing is a lot scarier: He's figured out how to surgically leave a Sensate a blank slate...giving him host bodies to possess and do what he likes with, since he's looked them in the eye. His own Cluster is fine, and presumably all as evil as he. Some may well be dead, given his age and lifestyle, but we have no idea how many.

As for Will's 'ghost girl'...were people not paying attention to the flashbacks? She's pretty clearly a fellow Sensate he saw Whispers kidnap or murder when he was a child (he was warned not to look whispers in the eyes by her and narrowly avoided it that time). Probably murder, actually. Sensates clearly see other Sensates they're connected with with even post-mortem sometimes. She'd be from another Cluster, but not necessarily one we'll ever meet (heck, they might all be dead).

In the last episode Whispers notes that he hates games, and Jonas responds "Really? I love them." That's an awesome, and ominous, line. He's totally not helping our protagonists out of the goodness of his heart...he has a long-term plan in motion that they're useful for.

Wolfgang is a nice, sweet, guy, and shouldn't be nearly so hard on himself. Being a killer doesn't make you a bad person in and of itself. I'd like to note that I love his arc...which is very quiet and self-contained and shows what a nice, normal, guy he is in day to day life before the reveal of exactly what a dangerous man he is at the end. That's really nicely done, and wouldn't work nearly as well if people were borrowing his skill set, since we don't know the full extent of that skill set until near the end. It also makes logical sense, since he's afraid to open up because he thinks people will see him for the monster he believes himself to be.

Capheus isn't taking Sun for granted per se. Not once he figures out what's going on, anyway. Frankly, I think she helped him the second time mostly to vent her own rage. Must've been cathartic. And...Capheus expected to die both times he went up against the gang, help or no. He just had things he was willing to die for both times. As for the gang going after his mother...what gang? The crime lord who ran the area is alive and well, has a whole organization with cops on the payroll, and they're leaderless. Those are all dead men. Or on the run, I suppose.

Lito might, or might not, get outed. If he does...he'll deal. Even if it deep sixes his career, he has a wonderful relationship and plenty of money. So who cares?Well, obviously he does, but as a viewer? Eh.

Sun is getting out of jail within the next month. Not legally, of course, but a prison break is not a difficult feat for the Cluster working together as the final episode demonstrated. That facility was probably more difficult than the prison Sun's in, to be honest. And if there's anyone that all the rest owe for her help, it's Sun (okay, Wolfgang doesn't owe her...but everyone else does).


Deadmanwalking wrote:

I'd partially disagree. I don't think anyone ever borrowed Wolfgang's skills for anything Sun couldn't have done. He has skills she doesn't, but they're never actually borrowed by anyone.

They would be pretty screwed without Sun, though. And, to a lesser extent, Will.

Wolfgang was able to fight that guy Lito was fighting without breaking him (Sun probably would have snapped him in two, and the last thing Lito needs is murder or attempted murder charges levied at him).

There was some other stuff I was thinking of when I wrote it, but I've forgotten it now.

Liberty's Edge

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Rynjin wrote:
Wolfgang was able to fight that guy Lito was fighting without breaking him (Sun probably would have snapped him in two, and the last thing Lito needs is murder or attempted murder charges levied at him).

Eh. Sun was a competitive fighter, she knows how to fight without doing too much permanent damage. She usually doesn't bother in the context of the show, but that's more due to those mostly being the kind of fights where you shouldn't hold back.

Spoiler:
And besides the guy was a professional criminal, he'd never press charges, and even if he did, he'd lose as Lito claimed self-defense (due to having a history of violence while Lito had none, as well as Lito having a friendly witness) and Lito would get major machismo points with the public. It probably wouldn't even go to trial.

Rynjin wrote:
There was some other stuff I was thinking of when I wrote it, but I've forgotten it now.

Really? Because prior to the last episode, I don't think anyone borrows his skills at all aside from the example mentioned above.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Spoiler:
I'm pretty sure Whispers is not, in fact, lobotomizing his own Cluster. Indeed, he can't be. The ages don't synch up. What he's doing is a lot scarier: He's figured out how to surgically leave a Sensate a blank slate...giving him host bodies to possess and do what he likes with, since he's looked them in the eye. His own Cluster is fine, and presumably all as evil as he. Some may well be dead, given his age and lifestyle, but we have no idea how many.

Spoiler:
Whispers' cluster might still alive, but I can just as easily imagine them strapped to tables in some BPO facility somewhere, rigged up so he can forcibly borrow their skills whenever he wants. That would certainly jibe with his "experiment and control" methodology.
Liberty's Edge

Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
Spoiler:
Whispers' cluster might still alive, but I can just as easily imagine them strapped to tables in some BPO facility somewhere, rigged up so he can forcibly borrow their skills whenever he wants. That would certainly jibe with his "experiment and control" methodology.

That's also very possible.


I may be in a minority here, but I think I would enjoy this show more without the Whispers plotline.

Sovereign Court

Caineach wrote:
I may be in a minority here, but I think I would enjoy this show more without the Whispers plotline.

Not alone, I wish at least the first season had no boggie man in it.

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