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All this talk about moving and adding an extra +5 is nonsense, and overly complicates an extremely simple issue.It'd be even simpler if we just went by the DCs listed in the CRB, and didn't subtract 5 from them.
No one here is. We just recognize you don't have to be jumping for your full movement unless the gap is equal to your full movement. (And even then, you probably won't make it if it IS equal to the full movement you make.)
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Dude...go look at how a long jump is measured in track and field.
Dude... go try some track and field. With a 10-foot pit. I assure you that you do not want to jump exactly 10 feet, regardless of how you choose to measure it.
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No one here is. We just recognize you don't have to be jumping for your full movement unless the gap is equal to your full movement. (And even then, you probably won't make it if it IS equal to the full movement you make.)All this talk about moving and adding an extra +5 is nonsense, and overly complicates an extremely simple issue.It'd be even simpler if we just went by the DCs listed in the CRB, and didn't subtract 5 from them.
Get rid of the "have" idea.
Two characters want to jump 20ft.
One does so over open ground, and lands 4 squares away.
One does so over a 15ft pit, and lands 4 squares away.
I believe the DC should be the same. You are claiming it's different. I have not yet heard a convincing argument as to why.
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If I jump 10ft, I've cleared the pit. End of story.Dude...go look at how a long jump is measured in track and field.Dude... go try some track and field. With a 10-ft. pit. I assure you that you do not want to jump exactly 10 feet, regardless of how you choose to measure it.
We're clearly speaking different languages.
Why do people think that you have to jump from the center of one square to the center of another square?
Because movement is done in 5ft blocks and people assume that to move any movement all movement is the same type and has to be in increaments of 5, otherwise you don't move.
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Agreed. That's just not how the rules measure things.Dude...go look at how a long jump is measured in track and field.Dude... go try some track and field. With a 10-ft. pit. I assure you that you do not want to jump exactly 10 feet, regardless of how you choose to measure it.
And we disagree on this as well.
The Acrobatics rules don't cover clearing an obstacle, they cover total distance crossed.
No one here is. We just recognize you don't have to be jumping for your full movement unless the gap is equal to your full movement. (And even then, you probably won't make it if it IS equal to the full movement you make.)All this talk about moving and adding an extra +5 is nonsense, and overly complicates an extremely simple issue.It'd be even simpler if we just went by the DCs listed in the CRB, and didn't subtract 5 from them.Get rid of the "have" idea.
Two characters want to jump 20ft.
One does so over open ground, and lands 4 squares away.
One does so over a 15ft pit, and lands 4 squares away.
I believe the DC should be the same. You are claiming it's different. I have not yet heard a convincing argument as to why.
B did NOT LAND 20ft away, he ended his turn 20ft way, but landed 15ft away from the start of his jump, which was just enough to clear the pit. If you go back to my 1ft example you'll see what movement modes and in what increments are being done to achieve this result.
A DID land 20ft from the start of his jump and didn't move anymore, thus ending his turn 20ft away.
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Dude...go look at how a long jump is measured in track and field.Dude... go try some track and field. With a 10-ft. pit. I assure you that you do not want to jump exactly 10 feet, regardless of how you choose to measure it.
To be fair the pit in track in field is at the same level as the runway so you're probably in more danger of injury if you clear it than if you don't. ;p
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The Acrobatics rules don't cover clearing an obstacle, they cover total distance crossed.
Funny you should mention that.
Jumping Over an Obstacle: If you high jump over an obstacle, you spend whatever movement you need to enter the square on the other side, plus the movement cost for the high jump. If you don't have enough movement available, you can't make the jump...
Agreed. That's just not how the rules measure things.
I also agree with that -- it's clear to me that the rules intend the DC to be 10, even though 11 is a much more realistic number. But, hey, dragons.
My ire got incurred by (someone) mindless quoting a dictionary definition and then yelling "Case closed!"
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No one here is. We just recognize you don't have to be jumping for your full movement unless the gap is equal to your full movement. (And even then, you probably won't make it if it IS equal to the full movement you make.)All this talk about moving and adding an extra +5 is nonsense, and overly complicates an extremely simple issue.It'd be even simpler if we just went by the DCs listed in the CRB, and didn't subtract 5 from them.Get rid of the "have" idea.
Two characters want to jump 20ft.
One does so over open ground, and lands 4 squares away.
One does so over a 15ft pit, and lands 4 squares away.
I believe the DC should be the same. You are claiming it's different. I have not yet heard a convincing argument as to why.
B did NOT LAND 20ft away, he ended his turn 20ft way, but landed 15ft away from the start of his jump, which was just enough to clear the pit. If you go back to my 1ft example you'll see what movement modes and in what increments are being done to achieve this result.
A DID land 20ft from the start of his jump and didn't move anymore, thus ending his turn 20ft away.
And where on that Acrobatics DC chart does it support your 1ft increment idea? Quotes preferred, please.
Until then, I'm not getting distracted by pretending we're playing Warhammer 40k.
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The Acrobatics rules don't cover clearing an obstacle, they cover total distance crossed.Funny you should mention that.
Jumping Over an Obstacle: If you high jump over an obstacle, you spend whatever movement you need to enter the square on the other side, plus the movement cost for the high jump. If you don't have enough movement available, you can't make the jump...
Those are the rules for high jump, we're discussing long jump.
No, it's not realistic at all. It's you completely failing to understand how a long jump is measured.
It's you completely failing to have ever had to jump over or across something in your life. Physics is not an academic vacuum.
The rules say the DC is 10, as we agree. But the reality is that, if you were really doing this, you do NOT want your heel to land on the edge of a pit.
Hrm.
You know, after reading all this, I've changed my mind.
DC 10 means you jump 10 feet, and I now think this is sufficient to clear a ten foot wide gap.
Agreed. That's just not how the rules measure things.Dude...go look at how a long jump is measured in track and field.Dude... go try some track and field. With a 10-ft. pit. I assure you that you do not want to jump exactly 10 feet, regardless of how you choose to measure it.And we disagree on this as well.
The Acrobatics rules don't cover clearing an obstacle, they cover total distance crossed.
And SKR clarified that the total distance you need to cross is just the size of the obstacle you're clearing. but that you'll use all the movement necessary to end in the square you're ending in, just not all of that movement is jumping.
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Effectively, what I'm trying to say is that to travel 15ft of distance, I need to make a DC 15 Acrobatics. The last square is counted in distance crossed.
What other people are trying to say is that to travel 15ft of distance, I need to make a DC 10 Acrobatics. The last square isn't counted in distance crossed.
I see it as Distance = DC. Same number. Easy to calculate by glancing at the grid. Intuitive and quick.
Others see it as Distance - 5 = DC. Different numbers. Longer to calculate. Not intuitive. Gets muddied when diagonals are concerned.
Does anyone disagree with this presentation of the two sides?
It's all an abstraction and an approximation.
But a DC 10 is the target number to clear a pit which is described as 10' wide.
I agree with both of these statements.
I am sympathetic to the people who think it should be DC 11, but am not one of them.|
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Um, no dude, when you say it takes a 15' jump to clear a 10' pit, that's exactly what you are doing. Why are you pretending otherwise?Why do people think that you have to jump from the center of one square to the center of another square?I don't know. I've tried to get people away from that idea and it just keeps repeating itself.
It's buried either in this thread or the other, but I disagree with that presentation. The square is what matters. Not 1ft in. Not the center. Not the edge. The entire square.
Search my posts. You'll not find a single one mentioning "center" or "middle", but you'll find (at least) two where I'm trying to get people to stop mentioning it.
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I ask again, how many squares away from the pit do you need to be to get your 10' running start?Um, no dude, when you say it takes a 15' jump to clear a 10' pit, that's exactly what you are doing. Why are you pretending otherwise?Why do people think that you have to jump from the center of one square to the center of another square?I don't know. I've tried to get people away from that idea and it just keeps repeating itself.It's buried either in this thread or the other, but I disagree with that presentation. The square is what matters. Not 1ft in. Not the center. Not the edge. The entire square.
Search my posts. You'll not find a single one mentioning "center" or "middle", but you'll find (at least) two where I'm trying to get people to stop mentioning it.
Sorry if I missed your question earlier, I wasn't avoiding it.
You'd need 10ft. 2 squares. Not counting the square you start in.
I'd hope we can agree on that.
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Does anyone disagree with this presentation of the two sides?
You need enough movement available to account for the number of squares you travel from where you start to where you end. As part of that movement, you need to make one or more Acrobatics checks, each of a DC equal to the width of the obstacles that you wish to long jump over, that you cross during that movement.
