MICHAEL DANNEMILLER
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So I've lost my fair share of arcane casters, and I've been itching to try one out again. I have a level 2 witch. However, now I'm starting to get that sinking feeling, as this is often where I lose it with my Arcane characters.
Right now she's got 14hp, and only an 11 AC. I have a wand of mage armor which I use pretty liberally. What general tips/items should I shoot for so I don't bite it the way I normally do with my caster characters.
| Cavall |
As a player of a witch all the way to 17, (and killer of the Serpent god) I can state with 100% certainty... your ac will always suck.
But there's hope.
Firstly, you can fly. Or at least levitate then fly. Coupled with slumber hex, you should ready actions to hex those that close in ranks on you. Slumber hex is powerful, and you'll be able to stop people that slide around your tank.
There's a level one spell that dazed one target while doing sonic. You will also get charm too.
Basically you can't stop from being hit. If they want to hit you, they will. But you can prevent them from being able to quite quickly.
| Hubaris |
Well you're in luck because casters have all the options for staying alive!... at least mid to late game.
That being said (and it may seem obvious) here are some pretty basic tips to keep your survival up mainly in the early game transitioning over!
In no order...
1. Get a good Constitution and Dexterity Score.
- No you don't need a 16+ in these, but even a couple of 14's can mean the difference between a hit early on (when you are most vulnerable) and a miss. Not only that, they help to boost your weaker saves; which help against the deadly early game diseases and poisons. It also boosts the fabled superstat... Initiative (more on that later). Its not always worth going 18+2 into a main casting stat!
2. Utilize favored class points.
- As a witch you can learn spells by copying them into your spell--- ahem familiar. You act as a wizard when it comes to learning stuff, so while the extra spells known may be neat short term, long term you can pitch some money and learn those early spells anyway. What is harder though is finding HP. That extra 2-3 point buffer might be the difference between dropping to -14 and dying or dropping to -12 and having a couple turns.
3. Position(ess) kind of sounds like squishiness
- While its not always fun to be out of the limelight, remember that you won't have the survivability if you do take a hit; keep yourself back and utilize your range on your spells. While it may be tempting to set up a Melee Touch Attack; remember that you are now in the fray and it is difficult to get out. You can 5 Foot Step as much as you want but you can be followed. To remedy this, use your meatier allies as cover and use them and their threaten zone to keep people out of your face. A friendly fighter with a longspear can cover that thin hallway for you and give some breathing room.
4. Spell selection.
- While not (all) relevant to the Witch, spells such as Mirror Image, Displacement, Blink, Blur and concealment will help much more than most AC sinks. You have your Hexes to fall back on, so if you need to dedicate some slots to protection do so! Remember you can always leave a slot open and prep it later if you have the time to do it. Remember there are Cantrips such as Daze as well which stop attacks flat. Ear-Piercing Scream stops a person in their tracks. A single target who is not attacking is better than any AC in a one on one fight.
5. Grab a Mithral Buckler at some point.
- While somewhat cheesy, the famed Mithral Buckler has no Arcane Spell Failure and no Check Penalty for anyone to use. It may have cost a little but remember it can be upgraded as the game goes on. While not as effective as a Shield for most of the game, it does serve the purpose if the spell isn't available or you want the slot.
6. Toughness.
- Yes its boring, but so is twiddling your thumbs when the boss kills you by a few points. Refer back to 2.
7. Position, position, position.
- Yes this is a rehash. Yes it is that important. The best way to not be hit is to not be ABLE to be hit. Use cover, use darkness, cliffsides, large obstructions, flight, invisibility, earthglide, etc. Remember that you have more options than most players would, being a caster. These spells also serve dual purposes, they aren't strictly survival! That Fly can be used when you don't need it to help that same melee fighter who forgot his bow (always!), that invisibility (greater) can help set up the lower BAB targets by attacking Flatfooted AC, that Deeper Darkness now cut the enemy off from his friends.
8. Go first.
- When you go first as a caster you set the tempo of the fight. You determine which areas are filled with grease, pits, tentacles, etc. You determine which bottleneck you want to fight in (if at all). You can separate friends from each other and divide the enemies up. Going last means you are vulnerable and your enemies can cover that distance on you. They make their own space inside yours and thats not good :(
9. Don't be afraid to wait though.
- Sometimes going first isn't the best, so you can always Hold or Ready Actions as well. You might not want to walk into 3 guys to attempt a 30 foot Slumber, but you can definitely ready an action to Slumber the first foe to walk into the range. Remember that threaten one thing earlier? This is like that! You can even help hop your allies up by creating a safe space, which will then give you a safe space as well. Teamplay!
10. There's always Total Defense.
- A pretty subpar option, but if you're desperate and help is almost there, you can always use the Total Defense action to help a little bit more.
Also keep in mind that Hexes are mainly (SU) abilities and don't provoke attacks of opportunity for using them in threatened ranges... So it may be better than the Total Defense option.
Sorry it was pretty vague it was late at night when I posted this but hopefully you pick up at least something useful.
Deadmanwalking
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Stay in back. Once you have access to them, use additional defensive spells. I'd advise prioritizing Dex ahead of everything but Int, but it seems a bit late for that.
Witch is hard to be specific on, because what defensive spells you have depends somewhat on your Patron. That said, next level you get access to False Life and Ironskin, both of which are immensely helpful in the 'staying alive' game. As does being able to fly, once you get access to that.
| Keltza Proditor |
Alright, first and foremost, you have to be asking yourself "Why am I getting hit?" Usually if you, the squishy 2nd level arcane caster are getting hit, one of three things are happening.
1) You are far too close to melee. Don't do it. You aren't meant for it, and this is the sort of thing that you simply want to be as far away from as possible. Take a look at the range on your spells. If you can stay at the outer limit of that, yet still somehow within reach of a healer, you are golden.
2) Your party members aren't protecting you. Remember, the front liners are supposed to take the brunt of the damage for you. If they aren't positioning themselves between you and your opponent's weapon, there is something wrong.
3) Your GM is unfairly targetting you. Seriously, there is no reason why a 2nd level arcane caster should be targeted by... really anyone. You look like the least threatening person on the battlefield for crying out loud. Mindless creatures and animals generally attack the closest things to them and more intelligent creatures that you would be fighting at this level see Conan as the threat, not you. It's kind of hard to pay attention to the spellcaster mucking up the battlefield when there is a 7 foot tall barbarian gutting them with a sword. It doesn't matter if you look weak, the enemies have to prioritize. At later levels, sure, because enemies are also more likely to be used to fighting spellcasters, and you are much more dangerous, but not at level 2.
If all else fails, get Toughness and hope for the best.
| avr |
On items - an armored kilt has no ASF or check penalty (likewise silken ceremonial armor) & could be worth getting once you can afford +1 spell storing armor.
If your familiar could feed a potion of cure light wounds to you, get a supply.
It's sometimes worth buying a warhorse just for the mobility to stay out of reach; not so much indoors, obviously. Flying/levitating can require an action to start up & it's much easier to already be riding. Spellguard bracers help with the concentration checks that riding imposes.
| Snowblind |
3) Your GM is unfairly targetting you. Seriously, there is no reason why a 2nd level arcane caster should be targeted by... really anyone. You look like the least threatening person on the battlefield for crying out loud. Mindless creatures and animals generally attack the closest things to them and more intelligent creatures that you would be fighting at this level see Conan as the threat, not you. It's kind of hard to pay attention to the spellcaster mucking up the battlefield when there is a 7 foot tall barbarian gutting them with a sword. It doesn't matter if you look weak, the enemies have to prioritize. At later levels, sure, because enemies are also more likely to be used to fighting spellcasters, and you are much more dangerous, but not at level 2.
A level 2 witch is scarey.
So is a level 2 wizard, sorcerer or arcanist with color spray, sleep or charm person.
It might not be worth getting ripped to shreds by Conan to do it(operative word there is "might"), but if they get the opportunity and are at least half way intelligent then absolutely they should strongly consider going after the arcane caster.
| MrCharisma |
A level 2 witch is scarey.
So is a level 2 wizard, sorcerer or arcanist with color spray, sleep or charm person.
It might not be worth getting ripped to shreds by Conan to do it(operative word there is "might"), but if they get the opportunity and are at least half way intelligent then absolutely they should strongly consider going after the arcane caster.
I think the idea is that they don't look scary. If you're a bandit attacking a convoy, you're much more likely to be paying attention to the soldiers than the scribes.
A late level wizard/etc will be decked out with so many magic items that they could be literally glowing, but in the early levels they don't look much different to a commoner. As a GM you should have to justify why your bandits are intentionally taking damage from the barbarian just to attack that little old guy in pyjamas standing at the back. Just as the characters shouldn't be "Meta-Gaming", neither should the GM.
If the setting you're playing in is high/epic fantasy maybe everyone would recognise a wizard/witch/etc, but for most settings they just look like people
| kyrt-ryder |
If the setting you're playing in is high/epic fantasy maybe everyone would recognise a wizard/witch/etc, but for most settings they just look like people
To expand on this, if you've been dressing up in iconic gear for mages. The robes and pointy hat give it away to the NPCs.
Haramaki costs 3gp, weighs 1 pound and grants +1 AC and is obviously armor to observers, but has no Spell Check failure.
If you value AC over mobility [I sure as hell don't] and have the strength to handle an additional 10 pounds you could add an Armored Kilt to that Haramaki for +2 AC
| Snowblind |
Snowblind wrote:A level 2 witch is scarey.
So is a level 2 wizard, sorcerer or arcanist with color spray, sleep or charm person.
It might not be worth getting ripped to shreds by Conan to do it(operative word there is "might"), but if they get the opportunity and are at least half way intelligent then absolutely they should strongly consider going after the arcane caster.
I think the idea is that they don't look scary. If you're a bandit attacking a convoy, you're much more likely to be paying attention to the soldiers than the scribes.
A late level wizard/etc will be decked out with so many magic items that they could be literally glowing, but in the early levels they don't look much different to a commoner. As a GM you should have to justify why your bandits are intentionally taking damage from the barbarian just to attack that little old guy in pyjamas standing at the back. Just as the characters shouldn't be "Meta-Gaming", neither should the GM.
If the setting you're playing in is high/epic fantasy maybe everyone would recognise a wizard/witch/etc, but for most settings they just look like people
If the party is attacking the bandits it is a fair assumption on the bandits' part that the guy without so much as a leather vest standing in the back isn't there to look pretty while his buddies are fighting for their lives. By far the most likely explanation is that the guys without armor are arcane casters.
If the bandits are ambushing the party, assuming the unarmored casters are non-combatants is legitimate right up until the point that the caster makes 3 bandits taste the rainbow (color spray). Then they know the unarmored guy is a caster.
| Cap. Darling |
Dont be afraid to stay back and run if stuff get dangerous. You should never stand where a bad guy can get to you without sufflering at least one AoO. If you have strong melee support you can use your self as bait. And remember if you dont run away from a guy that can hit you you will have to take him Down. Generally dont try to be a hero and live with the martials getting the glory, your time with come. But as a witch you dont have all the defensive options of a wizard so learn to love your sword swinging friends.
| strayshift |
It's a balancing act, the counter-argument would be the benefits of having a good enough offense that you put people down with a fair amount of certainty (e.g. burning hands type spells with spell specialisation, etc., colour-spray shenanigans, etc) because an enemy not attacking means you are safe. But that is a high risk strategy and sometime or other you are going to get hurt. Spell specialisation on magic missile would be the safest approach to balance offense/defence (yes I know you are a witch before anyone raises that...)
That said (and as a DM I do target casters and make no apologies for it) I've used the following spells to keep my casters safe:
Enlarge Person on a front-liner, it gives them a higher visual profile on the board and you someone with reach to hide behind.
Vanish, also allows you to get into an offensive position if needed too.
Mount - something to hide behind and it lasts a long time.
Also remember Mage Armour, Shield & Protection from Evil all stack - that is potentially +10 to your A.C.
Yes I've had low level casters die over the years but the other element that dictates a big part of this is teamwork. If you work together as a group and cover for each other you'll survive a hell of a lot longer than if you are 4-6 individual characters.
| Joynt Jezebel |
There is a lot of good advice above.
There is an old thread here called building a balanced party, link http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p576&page=4?On-building-a-balanced-group-w orking-out-just#161.
The author obviously knows what he is talking about and one of his points is that Pathfinder does not allow you to shield your spell casters from melee very well. Intelligent opponents will take the attack of opportunity and walk past the fighter, [try to] murder the wizard et al to death then deal with the fighter types later.
There is a lot you can do to get your AC up once you have the resources. In a recent campaign I was playing a cerebremancer with an AC of around 38 while my nephew had a summoner with an AC of 17. It was a matter of prioritising making your character able to survive. Be like the cerebremancer. Of course this does not help much at level 2.
| Mathius |
slumber is a great weapon at level 2. If you have that then it is worth it to put spell slots on defense and party buffs.
Do not try for bad touch spells. Wait for spectral hand or be a cleric.
Unseen servants can carry curtains or other objects that break line of sight and offer concealment. Cover might happen with peice of plywood but many GMs will nix that.
If you are outsite mounts are great.
| Tzimiscar |
Surviving always depends on your allies and spells. At higher levels as long as the team survives you can come back, even from the dead. (Of course the same might applie to your enemies who may or may not have made a deal with the devils(s). As a witch loosing your familiar at that level is mechanically worse than death.). Arcane casters are a wide field, some of them might even want to be at the frontline though most arcane classes don't want that.
A: Have someone between you and the bad guys - Where would you stand in a group of 6? I prefere somewhere in the middle, the back is great - until someone ambushes you from behind. Stay close and you risk getting hit by area spells, spread and risk that your party is split.
B: Mobility, fly is a great option. Unless your enemies have a ranged attack. Dispell might a problem (unless you use the hex, that feather fall option is great). Not that flying is even possible.
As a caster you look on your spell list, a lot of great spells were mentioned. Then you look at the witch spell list and get the impression they missed mage armor.
Shield & Protection from Evil are not on the list, neither is vanish, Mirror Immage, Displacement, Stone Skin, Invisibility - basically if it increases the chances of survival it is not on the spell list of the witch. Wait Iron Skin is actually on the list? Maybe I missed something else, what spells can witches use to survive anyway?
Permanent
Sometimes you get attacked in the middle of the night, ambushed... at least it's not inside an antimagic field and you can rely on your long time spells. What do you have? (duration days to hour/lvl)
Mage Armor (L1, +4 AC(armor))
False Life (L2, 11-18 extra HP)
*False Life, Greater (L4, 11+ 2-20 HP) - atm rather have an ice wall
*Spite (L4, stored touch spell cost 250gp) - soon
*Ward (Hex, +3 AC/Saves) - doesn't stack with most equipment
...
That's it for spells, mage armor and false life.
Well, what are you looking at?(Evil Eye). Witches are out of luck in long term buffs.(Misfortune) On the bright side you have hexes(Ice Tomb). They ignore SR, their saves increase with level and unlike a wizard a witch can never run out of hexes.
Before a fight
You are smart, so why are you following this group of lunatics into the deadly dungeon? Because you are prepared... how?
Ironskin (L2, +5AC) 1min/lvl ...probably overlookt this one
Heroism (L3, +2 Saves, at) 10min/lvl ...on the big guy in front of me
Death Ward (L4 vs undead) 1min/lvl
Greater Heroism(L5 +4at saves, now with extra hp)min/lvl
Of course smart enemies will stall. Still, great options if you know you're running into a fight.
[Want to destroy an encounter? Fortune + Crackle, bonus points for moving with a broom. As DM I'd drop the dungeon on a witch that uses this for a whole dungeon for 1d6 + 666 damage, but for a final fight/last stand it might be ok.]
There are some options, but to be honest I've got nothing. Rare enough you have the time to set up though...
In a fight
Offense is the best defense, but the wound in your chest says now might be the time to cast something for defense... ah what was it again?
Dust Form (L6, incorporal) 1round/lvl 50% miss and immunities to effects
Swarm Skin (L6, change into vermin) Become a number of swarms. Sadly you can't cast anymore, but on the bright side the swarms start with full hp and are pretty hard to hit. When one gets away you should survive. Least that's my theory...
*Unwilling Shield (L6, stop hitting yourself) a bit more agressive take, there are some drawbacks. 250gp, save, sr...
*Retribution (Major Hex, stop hitting yourself) even better than the Spell, flipped a coin. That, Argony or major healing will be the next hex.
Have not yet used dust form or swarm skin, probably won't use them unless things go south. Summon monster/Hexes/save or suck spells - stop the bastards that want to kill you.
Mobility
You came to slay a dragon. You didn't think it would be quite that big, nor did you think it would come to you. Also Sir Slashalot might have a problem jumping high enough to reach the flying beast...
Fly (L3: Fly Sir Slashalot, Fly. Now 50% more awesome as a hex)
Dimension Door (L4, 400ft+40/lvl might get the princess out here)
Teleport (L5, 100miles/lvl the minimum range you want to be away after realizing it is not one dragon...)
*Storm Step (L3: Short range teleport with 5d8 dmg, points for style)
*Hostile Juxtaposition (L5, change positions)... not used yet, do you change position & share the pain 1x or for the whole duration of the spell? Either way an interesting take on defense
Missed a few interesting spells, but nothing that truly changes the picture. Even the defensive options I found (*) are rather agressive, the witch is a glass cannon.
A witch has poor hitpoints(d6 hd), poor saves, poor bab (hello grapple) and no proficiency with armor (poor AC - unless you want your spells to fail and a bad initiative).
The good news is your hexes are great, the bad news reads '30 feet range' for your hexes. Until the major hexes (picked ice tome), and even then you might want to stay in 30 feet range due to split hex and evil eye/misfortune/sleep (would be nice to meet something not imune to it). Do not rely too heavy on slumber, those guys can be awakend by a slap not to mention your opponents can be immune against it like say drow. Undead drow, SR, good saves AND immune to quite a few effects... does misfortune and evil eye work against undead? Or... does evil eye buff undead like harm does? (bad things happen when a cleric fumbles the knowledge check... granted it looked alive... first time the party is saved because our enemy makes the SR check.)
I am playing a witch myself (lvl 11, elemental patron) and wonder how she is going to survive if something reaches her. The witch has 57 Hp (+11-18 temp), 18 Ac (With mage armor) and with 7(fort)/8(reflex)/10(wil)the saves don't look too good either even with the new-found cloak of resistance. However it wasn't me that died first. Not getting hit is the best way to survive.
Still could use spells or equipment that helps to increase the survivability of the witch. We have a (glass) canon, can we build a tank? At least there should be spells and equipment to make a witch more durable, both low level and mid level. Things that increase AC, HP, Saves give miss chances and immunities. (And the thing that gives all of this and more? Remember the one quest you didn't take? That would have been your's ;)
A list that could be filtert for useful defensive buffs and equipment would be great. Class (mage, wizard, sorceror, witch...), Duration(permanent, lvl/hour, 10min/lvl, min/lvl, round/lvl), effect(Increases AC, HP, Saves, DR, Immunity from ...).
Witch/Ac/hour would get you Mage Armor and ... that's it,
Witch/Ac/min would get you (1) Mage Armor, Iron Skin(2), Blood Armor(2)
Some nice equipment was already mentioned. Mithril Buckler, Silken Ceremonial Armor, Haramaki, Armored Kilt are all mundane and cost less than 1k. Ring of Deflection, Amulet of Natural Armor and Bracers of armor fall in the category.
Question: Do Hexes have a failure chance when cast with armor? Are there other usefull spells that can be cast inside an armor? Does an armor used without proficiency reduce your initiative? (yes)
Regardless I've started to like the silken ceremonial armor, not because of the AC but because of spell storing. I wonder... what happens if you have two spell storing items and spite?