Hi All!
I was trying to think of a 20 point build: a Half-Orc sorcerer. Largely because I'm partial to Half-Orcs. I thought it would be fun to try a more "blasty" sort of sorcerous build.
Partly because the FCB for Half-Orc sorcerers is +1/2 damage for fire spells, I thought it might be fun trying to have a Half-Orc sorcerer of the Fire Elemental, Fire Primal or Efreeti bloodline.
Most of the abilities for all three bloodlines seem quite capable of blasting the opposition to ash. Having said that, it seems to my mind that the Efreeti bloodline seems to be a bit more versatile with some of the bloodline spells and bloodline powers.
Just wondering what anyone's thoughts might be on one of those bloodlines for a Half-Orc sorcerer. Especially what the best feats to select. The feats I was thinking of, for starters, are:
• Elemental Focus (fire); obvious one, I should think
• Spell Focus (Evocation); most blasty spells seem to be Evocation school types
• Greater Spell Focus (Evocation); ditto
• Elemental Spell (Metamagic); if using the Primal version of Fire Elemental
• Precise Shot (Combat); to make the fire ray more likely to connect
The basic framework I was thinking of was with the following stats:
STR 12 (+1)
DEX 12 (+1)
CON 12 (+1)
INT 12 (+1)
WIS 12 (+1)
CHA 18 (+4)
Probably not the most imaginative set of stats out there, but it's a work in progress sort of thing.
Anyway, if anyone could give me any pointers on how to make a good fire-blasty half-orc sorcerer with those sorts of parameters, it would be much appreciated. I would also be interested in anyone's thoughts of a core race that might be better as a fire-blasty wizard. I'm partial to Half-Orcs, but open to looking at the other races too.
Thanks in advance for any advice anyone can give!
Cheers!
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Don't forget spell penetration and greater/piercing spell. Frankly I would go spell focus evo, greater spell focus evo, then go for double spell penetration/piercing spell. To really blast things up you want draconic bloodline(red/gold) or orc bloodline, or go crossblooded, take both. Then cry when your gm puts you up against devils and fire elementals ^^.
You can drop str to 10, wis to 10 to free up more points for dex and con, so you cam start first before your pesky allies charge into the fireball radius. Try to aim for 14 dex and con if possible.
sample half orc (draconic(red)/ orc) cross blooded sorc
Str 11, dex 14, con, 14, int 13, wis 10, cha 17
level 1 feat: spell focus evocation
level 3 feat: spell specialization (burning hands).
level 5 feat: piercing spell
level 7 feat: greater spell focus evocation
At level 3, your burning hands does 5d4+10 dmg(not counting orc fcb), reflex 15 for half.
if you started as human, you could be doing 3d4+6 dmg at level 1, reflex 15 dc half, as the human bonus feat can go to spell specialization.
Bit of a 1-trick pony though, but if you want to see things blow, that's one way to do it.
I Think it looks good and primal(fire) or dragon(red) would be my preferencer. Lots of baddies have fire resistance or immunity so make sure to also have some buffs and controlls so you Can Fall back to that role when burning stuff dosent work.
@Cavall:
Thanks for that. I somehow missed the fact there's a Greater Elemental Focus feat! Gotta have that one, for sure!
You're right; some level 1 spells with DC 19 is pretty cool. It would take a while to get up to that point. But it would still be nice!
@Just A Mort:
That is an interesting way to get a lot of blasting power. Wouldn't a Primal Fire and Orc cross-blooded achieve the same effect for burning hands, at least?
The penalties for having a cross-blooded sorcerer are pretty painful, though. Especially less spells known. I guess the best choice for that would be Half-Orc with the Sacred Tattoos, and the Skilled Racial Traits. Since Darkvision would come with the Orc bloodline arcana anyway.
Would make an interesting combo, though.
@Cap. Darling
It looks like the Elemental Spell metamagic feat would be a must for the Primal Fire bloodline to make up for all the fire resistance types out there.
At least the Efreeti and Fire Elemental bloodlines allow you to cast fire-based versions of spells that don't normally do fire damage. So that would save the need for that Elemental Spell feat.
But the extra fire damage for either the Primal Fire and Draconic bloodlines is nice too.
Decisions, decisions, eh?
@andreww:
Those are all good tips. Thanks for those.
I guess it is kind of pointless enhancing the first level bloodline power of most bloodlines. Most of them seem to be combat-oriented, which is definitely not a sorcerer's strong suit!
For starting stats, I can see sacrificing muscle power for brain power. I'd be a bit more inclined to start with these stats:
STR 9, DEX 12, CON 12, INT 14, WIS 14, CHA 17
Just for the purely practical consideration of being able to carry a bit more stuff around. But the skill boost in INT would certainly be worthwhile.
@Rerednaw:
This was the stat set you were thinking of?
STR 11, DEX 12, CON 12, INT 13, WIS 12, CHA 18
And then boost INT at level 4 to get some more skill points?
The Tattooed archetype looks cool. First level bloodline powers never seem to be anything to sing about anyway. I guess the best familiar tattoo would be either a Greensting Scorpion or a Compsognathus for the +4 boost to Initiative, eh?
Magical Lineage be a bit situation based? But quite useful if you made use of one good spell lots and lots.
The Selective Spell Rod looks way cool too. Don't come cheap, though. But that's true of most magic gear. Do you think it would be better, in the long run, to invest in the Selective Spell metamagic feat?
I also stumbled on the NPC Sindriza as a possible template for a blasty sort of Half-Orc sorcerer. Seeing that one, I was thinking of these as possible stats:
STR 14, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 8, CHA 17
And then taking Sacred Tattoos and the Fate's Favoured trait to offset the lower wisdom. Would still have level one saves of FORT +4, REFL +4, and WILL +3.
Don't know if that's way out to lunch, if anyone has any thoughts on that. But I thought it might be interesting, since a Half-Orc sorcerer would also be able to use Falchions or Great-Axes just because they can. At least he/she wouldn't be as helpless in battle in a pinch.
...
it was a NPC in. GURPS supers game i ran 20 years ago. And later my main alt in the City of Heroes MMORPG. But i Think i originally Got the name from a friend that had it from Blackadder.
it was a NPC in. GURPS supers game i ran 20 years ago. And later my main alt in the City of Heroes MMORPG. But i Think i originally Got the name from a friend that had it from Blackadder....
I'm a fan of Blackadder, of course. If I ever play a character with an INT score of 7 or less, I'll be sure to call him "Baldrick"!
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Primal cannot go crossblooded, Primal is a wildblooded type and Wildblooded cannot be combined with crossblooded. For sheer raw damage, the best combination is draconic (red/gold) with orc bloodline crossblooded. More importantly to get more spells would be to use the halforc human side FCB for the extra spell as opposed to using it for damage. Whether the loss of spells is worth it or not, it's really up to you. If you wanted to make things go BOOM, I just told you the most explosive combination I could think off.
No spellcaster is expected to carry his own stuff, that's what the party fighter is for, and after that, there are handy haversacks and a bag of holding.
I don't believe in dump stats - so any build I suggest will not involve dump stats.
Crossblooded is not a trap if you're using Words of Power, which is extremely powerful for blaster builds anyway. If this is a home game, you should see if your GM will allow WoP.
One of my players used the Fire Gods Blessing feat (heal hp for fire damage you do to enemy) for his half-orc sorcerer, worked out pretty well at low-mid levels. That's probably sub optimal but it kept him alive & helped out our Druid. (The Druid was the party healer in this case BC new players got overwhelmed by cleric options) Don't seem to have notes on his bloodline... It may have been Orc.
@ Just a Mort:
My bad! I missed the (not so) fine print in the description about cross-bloods not allowing wild-blood bloodlines. Not enough espresso in my veins is my standard excuse!
Do you think an Orc/Efreeti or Orc/Fire Elemental cross-blood might be a bit more versatile? A bit less blasty, of course.
I agree with you on dump stats. I don't like having stats below 10, even if it means key stats not being maxed out.
The funny thing is, it never occurred to me to have fighters acting as party pack mules for other characters' gear. They usually act as pack mules for loot, but not personal gear. Oh well, live and learn!
Thanks for the input. I would've missed that bit about cross-bloods and wild-bloods if you hadn't mentioned it.
Apart from the Words of Power thing Serisan mentions, can you suggest any other tricks for making up for the cross-blooded drawbacks? It does look like a cool archetype except for those significant drawbacks.
@andreww:
I love the Handy Haversack! It's a must-have in the home campaign I'm in now and especially useful for my bard/sorcerer.
I'll have to keep that Ant Haul spell in mind. Of course, there's always the problem of the limited number of spells sorcerers can learn: so many spells and so few slots! But that's where the ability to learn extra spells comes in handy for Humans, Half-Orcs, and Half-Elves.
@Serisan:
Thanks for the tip on Words of Power. I'm not familiar with that one, so I'll have a look at it. This character is just a work in progress for my own interest, I'm not making it for a current game. Well, unless my character in our home game inconveniently dies or something.
Any other suggestions for offsetting the cross-blooded drawbacks? As I said, it does look like an interesting option, except for the drawbacks.
Words of Power is an excellent place for Blast Sorcerers to start.
Fun Fact: Draconic Bloodline doesn't care about fire damage, and just adds +1 damage per die rolled is the spell has the fire descriptor. That means it adds more damage even if the spells deals cold or electricity damage.
Words of Power allows for just that.
@ermak_umk3
That's an interesting suggestion. Thanks for that. I can see how it would be handy for low-mid level blasters. Just so many cool feats to choose from and too few slots for them. (sigh)
Since one of the prerequisites is to be the worshiper of a fire god, that shouldn't be too difficult. Seems to be lots of fire gods of all alignments about in Golarian. Good, Evil, and Neutral.
@Azten:
Thanks for that. Interesting. I'll have a closer look at the Draconic bloodlines in future.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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I know the focus is damage output, but I really like the elemental (fire) bloodline because it allows you a lot more versatility in blasting (which is where sorcerers need the most help). Essentially any blasting spell has two modes, the default and the fire version. It also opens up a lot more spells to add your damage bonuses to. One good and slightly weird example is you can make wall of ice (which is generally better than wall of fire) do fire damage and you'd get your orc bonus damage on creatures that pass through it.
@Dennis Baker:
I was kind of thinking about that diversity for all the (not-Primal) elemental bloodlines. I thought it would be good to have spells that do all manner of not-fire damage, so you can use them as is, or make fire versions thereof. Very cool.
That fiery wall of ice is weird. But in a good way! Unless you're fire-vulnerable opposition, of course!
I ran a game with a half-orc red draconic sorcerer, and he loved all the extra fire damage, but he also liked charm person and other spells like that. We stopped around level 6 or 7, but at least he got to FIREBALL!!!!!!!
I also stumbled on the NPC Sindriza as a possible template for a blasty sort of Half-Orc sorcerer. Seeing that one, I was thinking of these as possible stats:
STR 14, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 8, CHA 17
And then taking Sacred Tattoos and the Fate's Favoured trait to offset the lower wisdom. Would still have level one saves of FORT +4, REFL +4, and WILL +3.
Don't know if that's way out to lunch, if anyone has any thoughts on that. But I thought it might be interesting, since a Half-Orc sorcerer would also be able to use Falchions or Great-Axes just because they can. At least he/she wouldn't be as helpless in battle in a pinch.
Never dump WIS, since there notsuch thing as a Will save thats "TOO GOOD"
And it also effects perception, the most rolled skill in the game.
Also- if a sorcerer or a wizrd ever has to use a melee weapon, something has gone horribly wrong. ;-)
I think it looks good. Sacred tattos helps fine with the lowish will. Carry a long Spear and the str can serve you well on the low levels.
@SmiloDan:
I didn't have a close look at the draconic bloodlines until the suggestions I got in this post. It is kind of cool with the extra fire damage. The fireballs must've been some nasty from the get-go with that Half-Orc sorcerer in your game.
@DrDeth:
Valid point about wisdom and perception. So, I was thinking that if I was bound and determined to have a Half-Orc (or Human, or Half-Elf) sorcerer kind of capable of fighting a bit, these stats would probably make more sense:
STR 14, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 16
That way, there's buckets of time to increase charisma for level 7, 8 and 9 spells.
I'm also a firm believer in Murphy's Law, in RPGs and real life. So I'm thinking it would be prudent to have a sorcerer with a teeny bit of starch for those special occasions things go horribly wrong. Mind you, that's just my personal mindset.
@Cap. Darling:
Thanks. I tweaked the stats a smidge to keep wisdom from being lowish. I figure a charisma of 16 would still leave heaps of time to boost it with levels for higher level spells anyway.
Spear; right! Good one! I forgot all about long reach melee weapons, despite having a bloodgrager in PFS play who makes good use of a Lucerne hammer.
Considering how often things go wrong per Murphy's Law, I thought it prudent to have a sorcerer that's not completely useless in a fight. Mostly helpless is better than completely helpless, I figure! :D
@DrDeth:
Valid point about wisdom and perception. So, I was thinking that if I was bound and determined to have a Half-Orc (or Human, or Half-Elf) sorcerer kind of capable of fighting a bit, these stats would probably make more sense:
STR 14, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 16That way, there's buckets of time to increase charisma for level 7, 8 and 9 spells.
I'm also a firm believer in Murphy's Law, in RPGs and real life. So I'm thinking it would be prudent to have a sorcerer with a teeny bit of starch for those special occasions things go horribly wrong. Mind you, that's just my personal mindset.
Sure, which is why a 12 in STR is not a bad thing for a spellcaster. It also means you can carry more stuff.
With just a 12 in STR you can get a 12 in WIS or INT, and still have one point left over. Hmm, str?
@DrDeth:
True enough. It would depend entirely on how much I'd want a few extra skills or perception over STR. I'm partial to skills, as a player, which sorcerers are always short of anyway. So this could work:
STR 13, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 16
At least with a CON and DEX of 14, this build would be a bit better at surviving a dust-up.
Of course, just halving a Half-Orc sorcerer that could wield a falchion or great axe with a wee bit of authority in a fight would be fun. Maybe not the best way to survive. But fun! Especially with buffing spells down the road.
@Dennis Baker:
True enough. But it would be kind of fun. Even if it is pointless.
On the other hand, having a bit of capability in melee could also help keep him alive long enough to enjoy level 6 and beyond. Maybe...
@Rerednaw:
I'll admit crossblooded is tempting. But the drawbacks are really painful. The tattooed archetype looks like the best all-round alternative. And it would be thematic too, should I have a Half-Orc with sacred tattoos as an alternate racial trait.
Getting either a Greensting Scorpion or a Compsognathus tattoo familiar would almost be like getting a free Improved Initiative and Alertness feats, as well as getting a handy familiar. Way cool.
I was thinking of a Fire Elemental, Primal Fire, or Efreeti bloodline. They all seem to be quite good in the blasty department. I'm toying with the idea of a bit of combat starch mostly as a way of surviving to higher levels. It's a tricky (and dangerous) business, this adventuring lark!
Fireball with Intensified Spells sounds very cool!
I'll remember that selective rod business. That would sure be handy in a crowded dust-up!
Thanks for all the pointers!
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We had a sorcerer who dumped wis. He had 5 wis, to be exact. So we were on a ship with a wooden hull and we heard noises in the engine room. He walked to the opening of the engine room and his dragon senses (blindsense - he prestidged into dragon disciple) told him there were people he couldn't see in the engine room. Guess what he does? He throws a fireball in. On a wooden ship >.<
I think orc is more versatile for blasting as you don't need to worry about the element used, but again most blasts are fire based. Don't worry about being martially competent, its actually hard to be as sorcerers have low bab progression. If you wanted to be martially competent you probably should look into prestige clsses like dragon disciple/eldritch knight.
@Just a Mort:
Well, at least he was role-playing up his low Wisdom stat! Although I'm sure his chums weren't at all happy with him!
Sounds like someone in our home game. Elven wizard with a very high intelligence and an abysmal charisma. He insisted on being the first to talk to everyone we met. He finally decided to let my high charisma sorcerer do all the talking after getting knocked out by an irate guard while trying to be our spokesman.
I won't worry too much about being really good in the martial department. I was thinking of that possibility just as a way to survive to mid levels. Although it would make sense if it was a Half-Elf who took Fighter and Sorcerer as his or her favoured classes.
Thanks for all the advice, Everyone! Much appreciated!
Gives me a lot of useful ideas on how to build a blasty sort of Half-Orc sorcerer.
The suggestions about feats to use (and avoid) was most helpful!
Thanks again!