Huzzah! Welcome! XD
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Fungapocalypse
The kids have really hit their stride. After obliterating all resistance in the troglodyte area (including dumb animals, like the poor, innocent giant mantises), they moved back through boggard territory and reported their victory to the boggards. The boggards insisted on throwing them a giant celebration and feast. Mysteriously, only male boggards were in attendance. And while most of the food was not particularly palatable to most of the group (raw giant fly on a stick, anyone?), Malek had a grand old time, and the rest of the party found tasties such as grilled eel to dine on. Back to camp, rest for the night, and off to commit more atrocities in the morning.
And yes, they have learned. They searched for the entrance to the Verdant Refuge, and, once they found it, buffed themselves to the nines. Seriously. Protection from Arrows, Good Hope, Draconic Reservoir, Protection from Evil, Death Ward, Bull's Strength, Shield, Gravity Bow... the list of minute-per-level buffs went on and on. Even more importantly, they'd asked about what could possibly protect them from the fungus, and I suggested Life Bubble, so they bought a couple scrolls of that and made sure everyone was in a Life Bubble before entering.
So when they went down and ran into the thorny lions, the only hiccup was the amount of damage Malek took pounding them with his earthbreaker. Otherwise Hooken made short work of them, significantly assisted by Voren's bombs. Voren also put an extended Haste on the party, so they raced into the next room without even thinking about it. With everyone in a Life Bubble the basidironds were a joke. I was a bit disappointed. Some of those hallucinations are epically hilarious. "You're melting! Spend the round holding yourself together!"
Without hallucinations, basidironds are... less-than-dangerous.
Once the basidironds were salad toppings, they continued racing up the passage, only to be ambushed by a large group of deathcap jumpers. We had to stop mid-combat, but Athelya's fireball and Kwai Chang and Malek, fully protected, meant the jumpers definitely looked like just one more speed bump the party was going to mow down.
The kids have learned the art of genocide...
...I don't know whether to be proud or ashamed.
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Fungapocalypse
Voren also put an extended Haste on the party, so they raced into the next room without even thinking about it.
It was actually Narlock's haste. Voren is saving his for the boss.
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Well, this was pretty much expected, but since I didn't announce it before:
Thus, no games for us until Wednesday, April 12.
On the bright side, in spite of kids traveling all over the world during the summer, they're usually willing to use Roll20, so that finishes off *my* major events 'til June. (At which point a 50th birthday is kicking in, so I except some form of celebration.)
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That's okay, NH. My group is taking a page out of your group's book.
They know they're going up against vampires. They buff nicely with Owl's Wisdom, True Sight, and various other spells which are handy. But they don't start with Bardic Song started up going into the main chamber... and did not take Death Ward.
Surprise round of combat against vampire Skulks, one player is level drained two levels. I have a sneaking suspicion he won't be the only one. In fact there is but one character who the Skulks will not be able to level drain as they won't be able to hit her. Naturally enough, that's the one who I will try to Dominate. And that's the GMPC.
(I did include one other encounter just so the group could have fun killing things - four cloud giants and a leveled frost giant. Chunky Salsa might be a good description for the giants as two of them were brought to -40+ hit points and Tongs now has a "Not Allowed" rule of going full auto when someone is in splash range of the enemy. ;) But they had fun nuking the giants so...)
Though we won't get a game in for 3.5 weeks so....
Awesome update!
game in for 3.5
Eye Cee Wat Yu Did Thar
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This seems like the best place to ask this rather silly question: Would Jaji be a better magus or cavalier?
Er... Jaji's the raptor, not the girl, so giving him classes would be just awesome!
"Excuse me, why are you talking to the human on my back? *I* am the one in charge here. I swear, some adventurers are so rude! Now, how may I be of assistance?"
Assuming you actually want classes for Athyra, I'd go cavalier all the way. Fits in too beautifully.
But Jaji with intelligence and class levels... think about it!!
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Awaken
I'm just saying.
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Now I'm envisioning an Awakened Raptor PC who at level 5 took one of the pseudo-Leadership Feats and recruited a Fighter to help with fighting duties. ^_^
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That's a nice touch, Tangent101.
The awakened Advanced velociraptor druid (reptile shaman) with Leadership and an Unbreakable Fighter cohort. Bonus points for making raptors fill the remaining leadership granted minions.
The players won't know that all of those smaller raptors are reduced HD critters, just that there are a lot of 'em.
*grin*
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Athyra can't easily ride Jaji (he's a biped and Medium at that) - I was in fact talking about a pseudo-awakened Jaji. Who has been adventuring with the party long enough to gain a level. Because it is awesome.
I settled on bloodrager, because then he's going to be even harder to control.
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I enjoy playing a character that does a ton of damage because it's fun to roll that many dice. But it's gotten to the point where anytime I roll to hit someone or deal damage my character sheet has to get checked to make sure i'm not cheating. It's getting pretty annoying and somewhat hurtful that they wouldn't trust me to play normally. If I keep needing to show in some way that i'm not cheating I might stop playing ranger. I don't really know. In this next post I one shot some dungeon boss because I got a double crit. (Aspect of the falcon helped which increases the longbows crit range.) I feel like my dad has stopped enjoying bosses now due to my damage output. I'm not sure if i'll keep this post up or not. I just wanted to put a little warning or something out to other people who have strong characters.
I enjoy playing a character that does a ton of damage because it's fun to roll that many dice. But it's gotten to the point where anytime I roll to hit someone or deal damage my character sheet has to get checked to make sure i'm not cheating. It's getting pretty annoying and somewhat hurtful that they wouldn't trust me to play normally. If I keep needing to show in some way that i'm not cheating I might stop playing ranger. I don't really know. In this next post I one shot some dungeon boss because I got a double crit. (Aspect of the falcon helped which increases the longbows crit range.) I feel like my dad has stopped enjoying bosses now due to my damage output. I'm not sure if i'll keep this post up or not. I just wanted to put a little warning or something out to other people who have strong characters.
KEEEEEEP THE POOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSST.
FEEEEED ME WITH YOUR DRAAAAAMAAAAAA.
But, more seriously, dude, peace; I know it sucks, but it'll be okay. I think your dad will be fine. I think you're doing fine.
There is the potential for other players to get frustrated if one person "dominates" a particular aspect of the game - this is especially true as discrepancies in personal skill and/or PC-power crop up - but this isn't a fault or flaw in the player.
Rather, it's a function of humanity to see apparent discrepancy in themselves and others and find fault with that; it's often harder to find your own faults than that of someone else.
That said, I'm going to suggest that, if it becomes a problem, either find a way to play the same character, but differently; or find a way to play a new and related character, working with your GM.
In one game I played a psion-wizard-cerebromancer, a crafter-mage, effectively. He was pretty OP, but the GM knew this in advance and had even offered to allow me to play what had, up until then, been strictly "thought-exercise" material; I hadn't asked.
So, I did. And proceeded to accidentally dominate the game. After the fifth dungeon that I (unintentionally) solo'd and/or lead the group to go through backwards, the GM just flat-out explained that it wasn't really possible to progress the AP as-written with that character. I was... pretty crushed, really. I loved that character, had built it to do one thing, hadn't even asked, but had accepted a generous offer, and then told I couldn't play him anymore. And it's not exactly like I could just use him later, in a different game - I'd spent almost twelve levels with this guy. The history was pretty ingrained.
So, we "retired" him - although active and an important part of the game, he is no longer the PC that I play. Instead, I worked with the GM and created a "twin golem" - basically a swole sentient flesh golem "created" identical twin (actually made out of six different clone-bodies) that used his basic mind and personality, had a could of his favorite tricks (without the most game-breaking ones), and a few perks to represent what I'd lost, and created a story that had him as this almost-always-masked character who went around as the King's most trusted "ambassador-knight" (the King being my previous character).
This allowed me to keep my "canon" history, imbed the character into the current story, and also retool my power-level to meet the more general expectations of the rest of the party. Though sometimes still a controller, I'm now more of one more melee brute, but with some mad "diplomacy"-like options (including Diplomacy).
Your dad may not like that particular solution (and it doesn't necessarily work for your ranger, anyway), but the idea could be the same: if you do end up retiring your character, you can come up with something to plausibly tie a new character into the narrative in a manner that doesn't invalidate your old one, but merely alters how he interacts with the campaign setting.
"I used to be an adventurer like you, until I took an arrow to the knee..."
"DANG-IT, Cousin, if I'd known I'd have to hear your stupid story about that stupid cursed evil-god's arrow, every time I talk to you, I'd have never cast that stupid spell to pop down here to help~! >:I ..."
... or whatever.
Point is, work with him. It'll be okay. These things happen to everyone, and it's just a thing. Peace out, my dude! Rock on!
Athyra can't easily ride Jaji
YOU'LL NEVER ELIMINATE OUR DRE- er, uh, nevermind.
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Well, I'm quite proud of Impus Minor for posting -- learning to communicate is an important life skill, and if he's more comfortable through posting than talking, that's fine. (I'm the same way.)
I'm even prouder that he didn't delete the post after he found out I'd seen it.
I took him aside, we talked about my issues, and I hope that we're good. Give us a few sessions to see how it plays out.
Well, I'm quite proud of Impus Minor for posting -- learning to communicate is an important life skill, and if he's more comfortable through posting than talking, that's fine. (I'm the same way.)
I'm even prouder that he didn't delete the post after he found out I'd seen it.
I took him aside, we talked about my issues, and I hope that we're good. Give us a few sessions to see how it plays out.
... so what you're saying, is... that I get to play Beatrice (the long form of "Betty") "Boop" Bradley, soon?
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Well, THAT was anticlimactic!
As expected, the deathcap jumpers were little more than a speed bump in the kids' way, and they chose to remain in initiative to proceed through the rest of the cave. This led to a small amount of frustration in the form of, "What do you mean, I can't cast a spell and then declare that I want to follow behind Malek?", but they quickly got themselves organized.
It turned out that Malek was down over 100 hit points, so as they moved up the passage Athelya, Narlock, and Voren took turns healing Malek while Kwai Chang scouted ahead.
They dutifully all bunched up in front of the elder polyp, and it got off a nice acid breath that hit a couple of people, but then Hooken hit the AC 27 polyp 6 times for 263 points of damage, leading to its immediate demise, and my ensuing reaction that led to Impus Minor's post above.
I don't discuss dirty laundry in public, so I'll just reiterate that I believe the issue is resolved. Time will tell.
Once they'd one-rounded the boss, their overall reaction was, "Well, that was anticlimactic!"
They searched the room and found the remains of a dwarf, including a masterwork stone hammerhead that Narlock easily identified as one of the treasures of the Kraggorach clan of dwarves. After figuring out that it would take them days to return the hammerhead properly, the party just shrugged its collective shoulders and sold it to the Free Captains instead. (The Free Captains are making out like bandits in this campaign. It's pretty awesome.)
One night of rest in the Pathfinder camp, and off to the Lair off Illaghri they went. Needless to say, the corpsespun sarcosuchus didn't last a round against Hooken, so we ended the night with them plotting how to proceed further into the cave...
But... what about my bard!?
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They searched the room and found the remains of a dwarf, including a masterwork stone hammerhead that Narlock easily identified as one of the treasures of the Kraggorach clan of dwarves. After figuring out that it would take them days to return the hammerhead properly, the party just shrugged its collective shoulders and sold it to the Free Captains instead. (The Free Captains are making out like pirates in this campaign. It's pretty awesome.)
Fixed a typo.
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I will admit some curiosity as to which AP you'd run next for your youthful band once they finish Serpents Skull. :)
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At the moment there's a strong desire to run a Ponyfinder version of Wrath of the Righteous.
I don't know whether I could manage THAT much silliness.
More realistically, I'm hoping to get Impus Minor to run Rise of the Runelords, with me as co-GM. We'll see whether we can do that.
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Giant Teleporting Spiders: Still Scary!
So I have to admit, I am very fond of the description of Illaghri as "a cantankerous old corpsespinner", so I was very concerned that the kids were just going to finish her off in a single round and loot her cave. Fortunately, her tactics played out beautifully in her favor, and we had a fairly entertaining session.
In spite of my warning him that he wasn't being Stealthy because there wasn't any cover to hide behind, Kwai Chang proceeded ahead of the rest of the group deeper into the cave, and right into the spider-breath (why doesn't Spider-Man have that, anyway? A threatened artist's strike at having to draw all the teeny spiders?) of the four corpsespun boggards. Unfortunately, with a huge Reflex save and Evasion, their might as well have held their breaths. (I'm a firm believer in, "If it makes no sense at all, it doesn't happen," so since he took no damage from the spiders, I figured he was doing some kind of fancy roby-thingy dance and avoiding any of the spiders landing on him.) Fortunately, he chose not to move away, so they gave up on breathing on him and just pummeled him within a couple dozen hit points of his life. Adding insult to injury, their blows covered him with said spiders, no Reflex save required.
So of course Athelya and Voren had to use fire fire FIRE to burn the spiders off of him, adding to my amusement. Curiously, Hooken was only shooting one boggard at a time, sending each one to around -150 hit points. Well, dead is dead. Even Malek actually got involved in a fight, which has been pretty rare for him ever since Bara came along. Illaghri popped out to web Kwai Chang in place, leading to Narlock Jester's Jaunting him to safety with only a handful of hit points left.
So I was sitting there, thinking Illaghri was a sitting duck, and Hooken would just come around the corner and obliterate her. Fortunately, Irwin decided to move up to try to flank the last remaining boggard, letting her do the classic, "Move up, bite, quickened Dimension Door away."
The moment Irwin failed his Fortitude save and took 6 points of Intelligence damage on the very first round, Narlock decided it was time to negotiate. She had Tongues up, and she was a bard. A deal was quickly struck: For each item the party removed from the cave, they would provide Illaghri with one human-sized victim. Horses would count as two victims. Kwai Chang gave Irwin his potion of Delay Poison to prevent him from dying of stupidity (isn't that redundant in this campaign?), and the party searched the premises.
They chose the Staff of Necromancy, all four crystals, and one masterwork flail to take with them, on the promise of delivering three horses.
A great deal of bookkeeping later (selling the loot, using a Restoration on Irwin to keep him from turning into a corpsespun ninja, buying more diamond dust for more Restorations, dropping off the horses with Illaghri), Illaghri made an offer to Narlock: Deliver 12 sentient creatures she could turn into her army, and she would grant Narlock a boon from her hoard on the Astral Plane. Out of character, Talky asked, "I assume delivering 12 sentient beings to a horrible extraplanar monster to be turned into zombie slaves just for my own profit would affect my 'Good' alignment, right?"
I had to answer in the affirmative.
So they slept for a night, refused Hooken's pleas to wait one more day for the Muse to finish his bow, and moved on to Vault C.
Much to my delight, they burned ALL their buffs before actually looking at the vault and learning that it is entirely submerged.
The night ended with a bit of overkill on my poor megapiranha swarms: If you look at their damage, it's specifically Bleed damage. Elementals don't bleed. So Athelya burned three 5th level spells casting Summon Monster V and letting her water elementals deal with the toothy fishies.
We ended the night with the party preparing to proceed into the depths...
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Out of character, Talky asked, "I assume delivering 12 sentient beings to a horrible extraplanar monster to be turned into zombie slaves just for my own profit would affect my 'Good' alignment, right?"
...
Whatever gave him such a silly idea?!
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I liked the piranha swarms. When I played that part, I had actually been specifically hoping to see some piranha, but thought the group was too high level for them.
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I liked the piranha swarms. When I played that part, I had actually been specifically hoping to see some piranha, but thought the group was too high level for them.
Unfortunately, they've learned caution. They had Kwai Chang levitate to a bit above the pool's surface, he saw "fish", and they immediately thought, "Piranha" and threw in meat. The fish bit, and in went the elementals.
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Well, I just got notification that Voren's player can't make it tonight due to homework. Since they're all currently 11th level and rapidly wrapping up the last of the vaults, and they're supposed to be 12th before entering the final vault, I decided I'd let them take care of their level-ups tonight.
Somehow I don't think I will get any complaints.
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Maybe I just don't have very good appreciation for archers (a. hardly anyone in our circle plays an archer, b. almost no one in our circle makes attempts to maximize characters); I am just curious as to how is Hooken built to be doing that much damage?
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Maybe I just don't have very good appreciation for archers (a. hardly anyone in our circle plays an archer, b. almost no one in our circle makes attempts to maximize characters); I am just curious as to how is Hooken built to be doing that much damage?
So the problem with rangers is that they get all the martial feats (full BAB, bonus feats, etc.), plus favored enemy bonuses, plus two feats that grant extra attacks, plus Haste.
So compare a ranger to a dual-wielding fighter, except the ranger doesn't take the damage hits on the secondary weapon. You get just as many attacks as a dual wielder, but none of the damage penalties.
So out of the box with nothing turned on, Hooken is an 11th-level ranger with a Dex of 18 and a Str of 14. He looks harmless enough with a composite longbow (+2 Str):
+15/+10/+5, 1d8+2
Now, just add Manyshot and Precise Shot.
+13(x2)/+13/+8/+3, 1d8+2. With 2 feats, we've gone from 3 attacks to 5.
Turn on Deadly Aim and Weapon Focus.
+11(x2)/+11/+6/+1, 1d8+8.
Then come the buffs that turn things stupid. Cat's Grace, Gravity Bow, Good Hope, and a bard with Inspire Courage (+3) and Discordant Voice.
+18(x2)/+18/+13/+8, 3d6+13.
Add Haste and you get
+19(x2)/+19/+19/+14/+9, 3d6+13.
He also has Point-Blank Shot, Clustered Shot, and Hammer the Gap to add to damage on multiple hits and bypass DR.
So consider a "standard" AC 24 enemy.
He gets hit an average of 4 times per round for 100 points of damage, with DR only counting once. And that's ignoring crits.
Add favored enemies and/or good rolls, and Hooken can routinely break 200 hit points a round.
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We actually played a bit last night, and it turns out that the grey nisps are brutal with their, "We can see you but you can't see us, and we're going to spam you with Slow, Confusion, and Hold Monster."
A Confused Irwin did his best damage of the campaign so far... to Narlock. Malek's incoherent singing has attracted Bara to jump into the hole, and now everyone is terrified what will happen when she becomes confused. Kwai Chang is the only one actually hitting the creatures, but half damage for fighting underwater means he's taking forever to take them down. Voren is MIA, Athelya is being beaten to death, and Hooken has finally realized that shooting a bow underwater really isn't all that bad (in fact, it's so ridiculously easy it defies the laws of physics), but everyone else jammed up the passageway so badly he can't get close enough to see the creatures.
Oh, and everyone keeps rolling amazingly poorly and missing their Swim checks to be able to do anything.
Fighting underwater -- it brings the humility back to any group!
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Freedom of movement anyone?
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I regret to report that fond memories aren't the only thing the chaperones brought home from the trip: Most of us are now quite sick, myself included.
Since it's a "fever, exhaustion, and sore throat" disease, I can't even run remotely.
Feh.
On the bright side, we're trying for Monday the 8th.
I hope y'all feel better soon. I miss my free entertainment.
So say we all!
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May your collective recovery proceed swiftly and without complications. Free entertainment can wait. :)
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Get well soon.
I command it!
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OK, other than a post-illness cough, I'm feeling pretty good this week. Unfortunately, my attempt to move to a Monday game was thwarted, so it looks like we'll lose this week's game as well.
Updates as they happen...
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Glad you're feeling better!
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And... I installed RIFT again... Trion is giving the expansion for free to anyone who logs in until May 14.
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First off, I just want to say that I've really enjoyed re-reading this thread. I caught up on it all around a year ago, forgot about it, and just read all 25 pages again - it's a fun story. I'm also running a group through Serpent's Skull, but there have bee 3 players for most of the game - 4 for Book 1, and the last session got a 4th player again. We're up to a very similar point to you - not quite finished all of Book 3, but done a solid chunk of Book 4.
It's been crazy to me the amount of player deaths you guys have had! I'm very much interested in optimization, but all the players I'm running are first time players - and we started off Book 1 with 2 Rangers, a Swashbuckler, and an unchained Rogue. Not exactly a super balanced party! I've not had any (permanent) player deaths yet - though there have been a few close moments. I helped in character creation, so all the characters are at the very least decent - and we've had some changes, so one ranger is now a Hunter, another Ranger left, the uRogue hasn't changed, and the Swashbuckler now is a Swashbuckler 1/Mesmerist for the rest. They've been struggling with some things in Book 4 - but for the most part I've been upping the difficulty substantially to challenge them.
We also get up to some zany adventures (I've had to build in a whole Sargavan Revolution sub-plot), so it's been great fun to compare! Thanks for posting your campaign up here.
Maybe I just don't have very good appreciation for archers (a. hardly anyone in our circle plays an archer, b. almost no one in our circle makes attempts to maximize characters); I am just curious as to how is Hooken built to be doing that much damage?So the problem with rangers is that they get all the martial feats (full BAB, bonus feats, etc.), plus favored enemy bonuses, plus two feats that grant extra attacks, plus Haste.
So compare a ranger to a dual-wielding fighter, except the ranger doesn't take the damage hits on the secondary weapon. You get just as many attacks as a dual wielder, but none of the damage penalties.
So out of the box with nothing turned on, Hooken is an 11th-level ranger with a Dex of 18 and a Str of 14. He looks harmless enough with a composite longbow (+2 Str):
+15/+10/+5, 1d8+2Now, just add Manyshot and Precise Shot.
+13(x2)/+13/+8/+3, 1d8+2. With 2 feats, we've gone from 3 attacks to 5.Turn on Deadly Aim and Weapon Focus.
+11(x2)/+11/+6/+1, 1d8+8.Then come the buffs that turn things stupid. Cat's Grace, Gravity Bow, Good Hope, and a bard with Inspire Courage (+3) and Discordant Voice.
+18(x2)/+18/+13/+8, 3d6+13.Add Haste and you get
+19(x2)/+19/+19/+14/+9, 3d6+13.He also has Point-Blank Shot, Clustered Shot, and Hammer the Gap to add to damage on multiple hits and bypass DR.
So consider a "standard" AC 24 enemy.
He gets hit an average of 4 times per round for 100 points of damage, with DR only counting once. And that's ignoring crits.
Add favored enemies and/or good rolls, and Hooken can routinely break 200 hit points a round.
Those numbers don't seem crazy to me at all - using the Instant Enemy spell will bump the numbers up in general a great deal, and I think Hooken will have access to it now. Swift action to make every enemy who's not a favoured enemy treated as per your best one is a huge damage boost!
The damage doesn't seem weird though - comparing to a uRogue at the same level:
Let's so 20 Dex - you seem to be running a low-magic campaign, but the uRogue is a lot more focused on Dex. This requires buying to 16 at point buy, having +2 from a racial modifier, and +2 from the 4th and 8th level increases going in. Sneak attack is turned on for these - can be from the two-weapon feint line, from Circling Mongoose and Canny Tumble, from simple flanking, from Greater Invis cast on them, and many other mechanisms. By level 11, you should basically always have sneak attack going, to be honest.
With a Masterwork Short Sword in each hand (which is very low for this level, really):
+14/+9, 7d6+5
Now add Two Weapon Fighting and Improved Two Weapon Fighting:
+12/+12/+7/+7, 7d6+5 on 2, and 7d6+2 on the other two
Add in Weapon Focus and similar buffs to the ones you have listed - Cat's Grace, Good Hope, Inspire Courage (+3), Discordant Voice, Haste, etc:
+21/+21/+21/+16/+16 for 8d6+12 on 3 of the 5 hits, and 8d6+9 on the other 2. If all the blows hit, 40d6+54 points of damage.
Against the same AC 24 enemy, you've got an average damage of 155.35 points. On top of that, you're likely targeting flat-footed AC (invis, canny tumble, feint, etc), and once your first blow has landed, you give the enemy -6 to AC against you, so that average damage is probably more around 170.
The damage from Dex is minimal - you can do slightly less damage as a non-unchained Rogue.
Essentially that long spoiler comes out to the point that Hooken's damage is not crazy for the level you're at presuming a solid level of optimization, just that Hooken's player seems to be much more optimized than most of the other players, which is being made more dramatic by Malek's recent decrease in participation in the fight due to their new lovely lady, as they're the other main damage dealer.
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Oh - and if any of the players want to improve their effectiveness, you could suggest posting here? I'm sure many of us would be happy to give some recommendations on further directions for their builds, and that way it doesn't feel like you've 'built the character for them', like with the Rage Prophet back in Book 1 - just that they've got some advice, and might make Hooken get bothered less if everyone is upping their performance :)
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Read this entire thread between tickets at work. Bravo to you and your group NH this has been quite entertaining.
Is a good thread. :D
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Wow...it's been another page since I sat down for some water.