How do?
The GM for my home game has ruled that we can't purchase magic items above the purchase limit of cities. We are 12th level, and I am a cleric who can teleport across the world and plane shift to other dimensions, but the largest city we can get to has a purchase limit of 30k.
Basically, the casters in our group (including me) want to get +6 headbands which are 36k priced. How do we do this? I do not believe that a 12th level caster who can literally reach anywhere in the universe via planar travel (my common tactic of getting anywhere on the same plane is to plane shift to a different plane and then plane shift back around whereabouts I want to go) can't get a dang +6 headband.
We are not allowed to take crafting feats, and the DM says that we can't find anyone who will craft items for us.
At one point, I wanted to get Celestial Plate Armor with a +1 enhancement instead of the normal +3 enhancement that is tacked on to the armor, but he said I couldn't because you can't buy a unique item from a store that is customized. I said I would find a wizard to make one for me that met my specifications, he wouldn't allow it.
i think there is a rogue talent that let you get more from a town. black market thingy.
*edit* found it
black market connections maybe this can help.
This sounds like a situation where you need to have a conversation with your DM. Either they have a preconceived notion of what they want you to do in order to get that item, or they don't want you to have it, and are using the in-game mechanics to do it. Either way, I suggest talking to them sometime outside of the game about it, that way you can either get a hint about how to get it, or find out that you might as well stop worrying because it isn't available.
It is always possible that the DM doesn't want you to buy it because he knows that one of the next big baddies you'll be up against has one...
All that aside, Sigil would be a great place to look. Very high potential for your PC to get squashed like a bug, given the nature of the place.
The City of Brass with the efreet is probably also a very good possibility. It isn't as uber connected as Sigil, but it is probably a bit safer, all in all. It does have a very strong industry, both magic and mundane, so it'd be reasonable to find what you're looking for there.
I brought up major magic item rolls before, but he said he didn't want to do that because it would be a hassle for the party (to be fair, distractions like that can really bog down our game time). I don't really get why he won't just let us buy what we want. I mean, it was kind of a struggle before 9th level working around the purchase price of the local towns (IE I want a belt of strength +4 but that isn't within the towns purchase limit) - but that was offset by the understanding we could eventually get around that by going outfield (to Absalom via teleport). Well, where do you go with a purchase limit higher than Absalom?
And, he's been super reasonable about things before. Like he allowed me to ignore a PrC prerequisite to go into the Battle Herald class without dipping Bard in another campaign.
I've asked about bypassing this purchase limit restriction before but I've only gotten vague or confusing answers about it. It definitely isn't "You shouldn't buy that because it's going to be treasure" type deal.
How do?
The GM for my home game has ruled that we can't purchase magic items above the purchase limit of cities. We are 12th level, and I am a cleric who can teleport across the world and plane shift to other dimensions, but the largest city we can get to has a purchase limit of 30k.
Basically, the casters in our group (including me) want to get +6 headbands which are 36k priced. How do we do this? I do not believe that a 12th level caster who can literally reach anywhere in the universe via planar travel (my common tactic of getting anywhere on the same plane is to plane shift to a different plane and then plane shift back around whereabouts I want to go) can't get a dang +6 headband.
Items within a city's purchase limit can be acquired in said city 75% of the time. Aside from these, every settlement has a series of randomly rolled items available on a weekly basis. Depending on the settlement size, as well as its modifiers, the city may have a varying number of minor, medium and major magic items, that the GM rolls up randomly.
If you cannot find what you're looking for in a 30k city, maybe look for a city that is prospering financially, which will raise the ceiling of the purchase limit. You can also hire some people in different cities to scour the markets for you, looking for certain items for you. Then pick the city that has your favorite inn, and hunker down there for a few weeks, see if the item shows up in that city, or if you recieve any messages from the other cities that what you're looking for has appeared for sale.
Alternatively, try using diplomacy to gather information, and use knowledge local and history while visiting libraries and local archives, to try and find legends about lost treasures, sealed dungeons, old ruins, and fabled items. Then pick out a place, do your research, buy what equipment you need for the expedition (that you -can- get hold of), and go treasure hunting.
If your characters don't feel like they're equipped for the challenges yet to come, venturing after the main plot would be stupid at best, and suicidal at worst. Taking out some time to look for really good equipment will keep the party alive.
Hope it helps.
-Nearyn
EDIT: If your GM feels like it's a hassle to roll up random items, have him use some tools to smoothen out the GMing experience :) We live in a wonderful age, GMing has never been less stressful. Here, lemme help show you.
Go to this link, copy the URL for your GM and he can roll up city items in under a minute. I'll walk you through its use. You click on button marked N/A, wait for it to unfold, click City Treasure, then choose the type of settlement. Done.
Here's a link for some more GM tools. They really do make it far easier to GM, because you have to devote less time and mental energy to alot of this stuff, than you'd usually have to, and instead you can focus on the story and characters.
Basically the GM won't let us buy anything over 30k "because."
No other reason then, "it would make you too powerful" and all I want it to bump up my headband from a +4 to a +6. There is arbitrarily no work around. I am a 13th level cleric with a 20 Wis. Our Witch (who is SAD) has her INT at 26.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Let me get it straight: you have made a cleric with 16 wisdom and never put a point from the stat increases in wisdom? Or you have started with 13 wisdom.
That are the ways to have wisdom 20 at level 13 with a +4 item.
Your game don't seem to be a low buy point game as the witch has 26 intelligence, i.e. a starting value of 19, so I suppose you have other high value characteristics. Characteristics where you have spent your 3 stat increases.
Sorry, but unless you have rolled your stats and got bad results, your wisdom is a direct consequence of your choices.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Sorry, but unless you have rolled your stats and got bad results, your wisdom is a direct consequence of your choices.
Yeah, I "chose" to play a super MAD class that had to precariously juggle his stats. Under the impression I could "choose" to make up the drawbacks of not having a sufficiently high casting stat with magic items.
Unlike "some" classes, I can't have like two or three dump stats.
But yeah, thanks for the "advice."
It seems to me that he wants you to find the items, not buy them. Maybe earn the headband. If he won't let you do that, then your other recourse is simple. You have to rob places that would have them. By that I mean that while the purchasing power may limit what's for sale, it in no way limits what's not for sale. So start finding marks to case.
First of all, he checked the campaign (RotRL) and saw there were no +6 headbands in the whole thing. So it's not about earning them. Secondly, I can't even find one. He won't let me commission a headband from a sufficiently high level crafting spellcaster, and it ain't for sale anywhere in the world. Like..."sorry, this magic item only theoretically exists."
At this point it really sounds like something you need to work out with your GM. If (s)he doesn't want you buying expensive items this board cannot help you. Or start a new campaign/find a different GM/start your own game.
Well, the reason seemed to be "that item would make you OP" (despite the fact that the archer in the party does something up to the magnitude of 2-3 times my amount of damage) just because I can already hit stuff pretty hard and...I could cast more spells. It also had to do with "well then the witch could buy a +6 headband too...and his save dcs are already bonkers"
The GM for my home game has ruled that we can't purchase magic items above the purchase limit of cities. We are 12th level, and I am a cleric who can teleport across the world and plane shift to other dimensions, but the largest city we can get to has a purchase limit of 30k.
From what you've written, this is an issue with the way your GM wants to run your campaign.
I doubt that looking for rules minutia will help you out.
I think you need to have an out-of-game discussion with your GM where you can lay out your expectations and frustrations. It's possible that your GM has something planned for you and has a very good reason to deny you access to the item you want just yet. It's also possible that he's getting frustrated by the campaign and doesn't quite know what to do next.
Speaking for myself, I find GMing high-level play to be tedious and not terribly fun. I usually end campaigns when the PCs attain level 12-14, unless there's a vested interest in completing unfinished plotlines (e.g. finishing an Adventure Path).
|
|
Sorry, but unless you have rolled your stats and got bad results, your wisdom is a direct consequence of your choices.Yeah, I "chose" to play a super MAD class that had to precariously juggle his stats. Under the impression I could "choose" to make up the drawbacks of not having a sufficiently high casting stat with magic items.
Unlike "some" classes, I can't have like two or three dump stats.
But yeah, thanks for the "advice."
Clerics are a super MAD class?
15 point buy = 3 14 without dumping anything. +2 in wisdom = 16.
+3 stat increase = 19
+4 item = 23
Dumping intelligence to 8 the starting wisdom rise to 15, 17 after the racial adjustment. You could have 24 wisdom at level 12 without problems.
A perfectly viable character, reasonably capable in melee combat and with a good casting stat. Low in skills.
Or you could lower your strength or constitution by 1 point and keep a intelligence of 10 while starting with a wisdom of 17.
I fail to see how making a cleric with a wisdom of 16 at level 12 is a fault of the GM.
That's entirely unhelpful to his question.
Sure, but he has chosen to be in that situation and now he coming at the forum trying to get us into browbeating his GM with rule citations to help him.
If the GM where giving to every member of the party a +6 items of their choice he would be in the same situation: he would have 22 wisdom with the witch having 28 intelligence.
He has enough wisdom, with the +4 item, to be able to cast level 9 spells, so he is not suffering from any real damage to his character.
Rule citation
12 108,000 gp
For a balanced approach, PCs that are built after 1st level should spend no more than 25% of their wealth on weapons, 25% on armor and protective devices, 25% on other magic items, 15% on disposable items like potions, scrolls, and wands, and 10% on ordinary gear and coins.
So, a balanced approach say that he shouldn't have more than 27.000 gp in "other magic items". A item worth 36.000, like a headband of Inspired Wisdom +6 , is above that suggested limit.
Buying a 36K item, if his group members have the suggested WBL will almost certainly create some serious shortcoming in other parts of his equipment. It is not a good purchase for a 12th level character.
|
|
Plane shift is a 5th level spell for a cleric. On the other hand, appearing "5 to 500 miles (5d%)" from your target location isn't a good way to get to the shop.
It is a good idea to have air walk pre-cast when doing that. 2/3 of our world is water and drowning because you have appeared in the middle of a lake or sea isn't nice
How do?
The GM for my home game has ruled that we can't purchase magic items above the purchase limit of cities. We are 12th level, and I am a cleric who can teleport across the world and plane shift to other dimensions, but the largest city we can get to has a purchase limit of 30k.
Basically, the casters in our group (including me) want to get +6 headbands which are 36k priced. How do we do this? I do not believe that a 12th level caster who can literally reach anywhere in the universe via planar travel (my common tactic of getting anywhere on the same plane is to plane shift to a different plane and then plane shift back around whereabouts I want to go) can't get a dang +6 headband.
Have a rogue in the party take Black Market ties. With DC 25 diplomacy check the rogue can raise the purchase level of small city to that of Metropolis which has purchase limit of 100,000 gp. With out check they it's 50,000 gp. Also if you don't have that a small city has 1D6 major magic items. Since a headband +6 is major magic item the possibility exist that it could be in any number of small cities or large towns (1D4).
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Have a rogue in the party take Black Market ties. With DC 25 diplomacy check the rogue can raise the purchase level of small city to that of Metropolis which has purchase limit of 100,000 gp. With out check they it's 50,000 gp. Also if you don't have that a small city has 1D6 major magic items. Since a headband +6 is major magic item the possibility exist that it could be in any number of small cities or large towns (1D4).How do?
The GM for my home game has ruled that we can't purchase magic items above the purchase limit of cities. We are 12th level, and I am a cleric who can teleport across the world and plane shift to other dimensions, but the largest city we can get to has a purchase limit of 30k.
Basically, the casters in our group (including me) want to get +6 headbands which are 36k priced. How do we do this? I do not believe that a 12th level caster who can literally reach anywhere in the universe via planar travel (my common tactic of getting anywhere on the same plane is to plane shift to a different plane and then plane shift back around whereabouts I want to go) can't get a dang +6 headband.
Don't work that way.
Base Value and Purchase Limit: This section lists the community's base value for available magic items in gp. There is a 75% chance that any item of this value or lower can be found for sale in the community with little effort. If an item is not available, a new check to determine if the item has become available can be made in 1 week. A settlement's purchase limit is the most money a shop in the settlement can spend to purchase any single item from the PCs. If the PCs wish to sell an item worth more than a settlement's purchase limit, they'll either need to settle for a lower price, travel to a larger city, or (with the GM's permission) search for a specific buyer in the city with deeper pockets. A settlement's type sets its purchase limit.
What matter for him is the base value, not the purchase limit.
They can sell a 100K item in a metropolis, but they can buy only a 16K item.In a Magically Attuned (+30% base value), Prosperous (+50%), Strategic Location (+10%), Tourist Attraction (+20%) metropolis they could buy a 33.600 gp item.
On the other hand a rogue with Black Market Connections and the ability to make a DC 35 diplomacy check could find any item.
To quote:
"With a successful Diplomacy check, the rogue can treat the settlement as two sizes larger. If the settlement is already a metropolis and she succeeds at the check, all magic items are for sale."
My guess is that your GM has a philosophical issue with 'magic marts' and common availability of magical items (something not uncommon, and I have a deal of sympathy for that attitude myself.) At the same time, he is trying to be a sport and follow the rules, but he is going to apply the most limiting view of the rules he can to limit something he thinks is broken anyway.
If this is correct you might be able to gimmick the system to get what you want (there have been a couple of decent suggestions already) but there is a chance that that will cause a negative reaction of some sort as well.
I'd talk to your GM about how he feels about magic items in general, don't start with the specific game and campaign, just about Pathfinder in general. Try and see if you can fully understand where he is coming from. Knowing that will better help you tailor a strategy that will work with him, not trying to 'beat him.'
Another general idea that might work is to try and convince him to solve the problem. Ask him for his advice (not as a GM, but as a knowledgable guy) on how your character could get the item he wants. If it is his idea, it is almost certain to work when you try it, and it won't piss him off when it does.
Best example of planar magic item shopping imho is in Sepulchrave's Story Hour. Search for pick and start reading there...
It seems as if the GM has a different view of the world than the player does. In the GM's world, powerful magic items above 30,000 gp are obviously quite rare and never for sale anywhere. Also, in the GM's world, powerful enchanters sitting around waiting for PCs to come hire them to make those powerful magic items are also prohibitively rare.
That's the GM's decision. His world, his call.
There really is nothing the player can do to change this other than talk with the GM and work it out. There is no rule in the book that the player can point to and say "Hey, GM, I'm right, you're wrong, not give me my headband!" Games just don't work that way.
That said, the GM is just one of the guys at this table. It might be his world, but if the other guys at the table don't like playing in it, pretty soon, the GM might be the only guy at the table. It's the GM's job to make the game fun for everyone, and that includes working things out with the players.
Maybe the OP can start with that.
I'm gonna have to agree with all the guys saying "This forum won't help, talk to your GM"
Think about whether or not you NEED this item to enjoy playing. Are you having trouble getting your spells and abilities to work with your +4 headband? If not, I don't see that the +6 headband is really going to add anything to your experience. You're really only losing a +1 to those rolls, and no matter what level you're at, that's only a 5% chance it'll matter. Is your party struggling to successfully complete encounters? Or are you steamrolling them?
The Core Rulebook says of GM's: "All rule books, including this one, are his tools, but his word is the law."
Basically if he doesn't want you to have it, nothing you do will get it.
As DM_Blake said, you COULD say that he's being unfair and quit playing with him, but I'd think carefully before quitting a game "because he wouldn't give me the toy I wanted". If you're having other problems with him as GM it might be worth talking to the group about it, but it sounds like you like playing his world for the most part.
If it makes him happy, and doesn't really hurt you that much, don't worry about it.
As DM_Blake said, you COULD say that he's being unfair and quit playing with him, but I'd think carefully before quitting a game "because he wouldn't give me the toy I wanted".
Just to be clear, I was not advocating that the OP should quit this game. Far from it.
I was merely suggesting that a good GM works with his players, so talk to the GM. Let him know this is important. Tell him you want to work this out so you can feel like your cleric isn't falling so far behind other characters like the witch. Tell him it would mean a lot to you if he could work it into the game world that you could find a headband of this kind of power, or at least find a guy willing to make one.
If your GM refuses to listen to your request, then maybe he's not such a great GM. Maybe he doesn't understand that nobody likes playing for controlling-dictator GMs but everybody likes playing for cooperative-fun-making GMs. (maybe say it in a nicer way).
But ultimately, if everything else fails, if you feel like this GM favors other characters (or other players) but not you, if you feel like he absolutely refuses to deal fairly with you to the extent of your own personal frustration and aggravation, then maybe this isn't the right GM for you after all. Last resort, and certainly not the go-to response over one incident, but not to be completely ignored over the longer perspective.
Those rules are for finding items that are readily available. You can still commission an item from an artificer. It just takes much longer as you now have to wait for the construction process to complete.
As DM_Blake said, you COULD say that he's being unfair and quit playing with him, but I'd think carefully before quitting a game "because he wouldn't give me the toy I wanted".Just to be clear, I was not advocating that the OP should quit this game. Far from it.
Yeah sorry, I took that out of context a bit. I just thought it sounded like he's mostly happy in the gaming group he's in, and if this is the only thing that's bothering him, it's really not that big a deal. If he can change the GM's mind - great. If not, changing his own mind is the next best thing.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I disagree with GM Blake a little here. Having access to ridiculously powered magic items is not something a good GM has to allow. A good GM is also trying to balance character power and encounters. He or she may also be trying to make finding high powered magic items a special treat.
Our games also have tough rules on high level magic items. Though we could commission a crafter, there usually isn't enough time between significant events. We still have a load of fun and appreciate finding that +4 weapon all the more (well at least one do).
What we aren't getting is the GM viewpoint and it is all too easy to come down on the GM from only one perspective. Not would I advocate ever "telling your GM to go read a thread" that is complaining about them. I do advocate having a discussion with your GM about his/her desires and then conveying yours.
Seek to understand before you seek to be understood.
Oh, and to the OP question. Wish or miracle may be another route to increase your magic item's power that gets around purchase limits.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I disagree with GM Blake a little here. Having access to ridiculously powered magic items is not something a good GM has to allow. A good GM is also trying to balance character power and encounters. He or she may also be trying to make finding high powered magic items a special treat.
Our games also have tough rules on high level magic items. Though we could commission a crafter, there usually isn't enough time between significant events. We still have a load of fun and appreciate finding that +4 weapon all the more (well at least one do).
What we aren't getting is the GM viewpoint and it is all too easy to come down on the GM from only one perspective. Not would I advocate ever "telling your GM to go read a thread" that is complaining about them. I do advocate having a discussion with your GM about his/her desires and then conveying yours.
Seek to understand before you seek to be understood.
There are other solutions of course. The GM can do anything. But if a player feels that strongly that his character is failing to keep up, that he's becoming a sidekick there to just watch the superheroes in the group have all the fun, then that player is not having fun anymore.
I believe emphatically that the GM's job is to make sure that ALL players (himself included) are having fun. If one of them is not, then the GM should figure out why (starting with asking the player) and then they MUST work something out.
If the only thing that makes the player happy is uber magic items, then as a GM I would consider that. But I might do it in the form of a family member passing away and the PC inheriting a family heirloom - it might even have drawbacks and even curses to along with the uber power, if it seemed interesting to do so. Or maybe the player finds a genie and gets a wish for more Wisdom as an alternative to just getting a better headband. Or whatever.
There are lots of solutions for a good GM to work with an unhappy player to find a way to keep the game fun and happy for everyone without compromising his own "tough rules' or limited "access to ridiculously powered magic items".
As far as the GM's opinion and seeking to understand, other posters in this thread already made that comment (which I agree with) so I didn't feel it needed to be restated, but you do, so yes, I agree, the GM might have very good reasons for this and if so, he seems to have failed to communicate those reasons with his player who is still unhappy.
No matter what reasons a GM has for making a player unhappy, it is his job to fix that problem and make the player happy. PERIOD.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Whoa, whoa, whoa, Bigger club.
How about a classic case of you not having all the information.
(GM in question here).
We run a lot of games. As a GM I try to make them feel unique and different. CommandoDude just came off of a Kingmaker Campaign with unlimited crafting and absolutely no purchase restrictions. The next campaign will likely still have limited crafting, but purchase restrictions will be relaxed or open.
In this campaign crafting feats ARE NOT banned. I encourage crafting. The only feats that off the table are Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wonderous Item, Craft staff and Forge Ring. The rest are open and available for use.
All of this was very openly explained BEFORE the campaign ever started.
And I am the opposite of a control freak. The party has complete freedom to make purchases up to the city limit, and the item is always available (allowing for purchases to be done away from the GM - ie not at the table). Also we did the random loot early on and the TABLE AS A GROUP decided that they would rather have items be always available instead of wasted time and effort with randoms for sale.
I wanted a specific feel for Rise of the Runelords. I wanted more consumable use. I wanted a lower top end on purchased power items (+4's being the likely purchase top). I wanted more use of found items. And I wanted character creation choices to matter. All of this was explained to the players at the beginning, and most of this has actually worked out.
I love having CommandoDude in my game, but he does have a reputation as a powergamer (And the character in question is FAR AND AWAY the most powerful melee in the group, he really does not need any help.) He was also the spotlight most powerful melee in the last game too.
I have never "cock-blocked" him. I have bent rules, been very accommodating, and provided special advancement opportunities unique to his specific characters. At the start of the adventure I laid out the specific limitations I wanted to play with this time around, and to plan your characters accordingly. He made choices (and not even hugely nerfy ones) But, now that it matters, to suggest that a player should have one last chat (ie demand he get his way) or leave, is highly immature. BiggerClub, you seem to have the mistaken picture of me as one of those "my way or the highway GMs" (and I agree they are often not fun to play with), what CommandoDude failed to mention was that I encouraged him to get feedback from the boards because I AM willing to work with him. We already have ideas.
My reason was never "Just Because", but was always "Challenge Balance". If I let CommandoDude get a +6...the entire group will be in +6's overnight. They already are wiping the floor with the bad guys (with occasional swingy fights being very challenging).
I know that I am not a perfect GM (I think I do OK), but I felt I should speak up as the conversation was being framed as me not working with CommandoDude, which is not what is going on here.
1) I established parameters for THIS adventure
2) Told players to plan accordingly
3) Played for levels 1-13 (book 5)
4) CommandoDude feels his character is "gimped" without +6 items that he feels the rules state should be openly available.
5) I say I don't plan to change the established limitations for this game, but I am curious what other gamers have to say. Instructed to go on the boards and gather information. Report back, and we will continue this discussion.
6) Discussion is in progress....
Would you consider allowing the character to reallocate their points (lowering Strength to up Wisdom, that kind of thing)? Then said cleric could up his Wisdom, if that's the course of the problem. He's no more 'gimped' than anyone else.
Or either remove the character entirely and replace it with a new one, or use plot magic to 'alter' the character from a Cleric to a Barbarian, or whatever he feels he can play without +6 items.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Whoa, whoa, whoa, Bigger club.
How about a classic case of you not having all the information.
(GM in question here).
We run a lot of games. As a GM I try to make them feel unique and different. CommandoDude just came off of a Kingmaker Campaign with unlimited crafting and absolutely no purchase restrictions. The next campaign will likely still have limited crafting, but purchase restrictions will be relaxed or open.
In this campaign crafting feats ARE NOT banned. I encourage crafting. The only feats that off the table are Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wonderous Item, Craft staff and Forge Ring. The rest are open and available for use.
All of this was very openly explained BEFORE the campaign ever started.
I wanted a specific feel for Rise of the Runelords. I wanted more consumable use. I wanted a lower top end on purchased power items (+4's being the likely purchase top). I wanted more use of found items. And I wanted character creation choices to matter. All of this was explained to the players at the beginning, and most of this has actually worked out.
In my opinion, you worked in good faith with the players and let them know from the very beginning what to expect. With that in mind, it seems poor form, given that you've allowed special dispensation to get around requirements and the like to have you be called a poor GM or that you aren't being fair.
While I agree with some of what GM Blake said, I do not totally agree about the "No matter what reasons a GM has for making a player unhappy, it is his job to fix that problem and make the player happy. PERIOD."
Some people are not happy unless they get everything they want, when they want it, how they want it, with a bow and whipped cream on top. Some people, and not just gamers, aren't ever happy with with choices, no matter how much you bend.
Your job as the GM is to make the table as a whole happy in general. That doesn't mean that you have to go out of your way to make sure that they are 100% deliriously happy 100% of the time; if you are doing that, why bother setting any restrictions?
If you know from the outset that you are working with limited magic, or that there aren't Magic Walmarts around every corner, or that spells have been altered or whatever the house rules are and then you choose to play, it becomes the player's responsibility to uphold their part of the agreement.
Well said Knightnday.
I tend to be verbose...so to keep it short.
After some discussion, I would probably allow the PC to lower his str to up his wis. CommandoDude optimized his character to be highly effective in melee. 18 STR 16 WIS I think, he is currently rocking 22 STR and 20 WIS with items. He is doing pretty good.
Ya, I don't see my job as "to make everyone happy, or even a specific player happy". But my job is to "try" and make sure the table is having FUN. That is the object. FUN. Happy does not always equal fun. I can be unhappy with an outcome (ie usually when my PC dies, I set off a haunt, etc...) and still have fun. CommandoDude is still having fun, he just wants to be "even more awesome". Which is a fine goal. I just have to be careful to make sure the TABLE (me included) are all enjoying themselves.
DM Blake mentions both happy and fun in his post, so I think his intent is correct even if I disagree with the specifics in his bolded sentence. His point is well intentioned.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
While I agree with some of what GM Blake said, I do not totally agree about the "No matter what reasons a GM has for making a player unhappy, it is his job to fix that problem and make the player happy. PERIOD."
Some people are not happy unless they get everything they want, when they want it, how they want it, with a bow and whipped cream on top. Some people, and not just gamers, aren't ever happy with with choices, no matter how much you bend.
DM Blake mentions both happy and fun in his post, so I think his intent is correct even if I disagree with the specifics in his bolded sentence. His point is well intentioned.
I'll stand by it.
I've never met a player I cannot make happy without compromising my game or upsetting the table.
I agree the GM's job is to keep the entire group happy and not just one player. But if a player is grumpy, whiny, irritating, unhappy, etc., he IS bringing down the whole table. If he's doing that, nobody is really happy; everybody's fun is compromised.
There are SOOOOOOOOO very many ways to make a player like this happy without the GM altering the parameters he set at the beginning of hte campaign. So the town doesn't have this item available, but maybe it's in a treasure hoard of an upcoming monster, or worn by an upcoming enemy - make it a BBEG and make it an epic fight and he'll feel like he earned it. Maybe a local wizard finds out he's looking for it and makes him an offer - I'll make one for you if you do this epic quest for me. Maybe something else finds out, a devil, a jinn, a rakshasa, or whatever, and makes an offer - for a price. Make him bargain for it, work for it, quest for it.
Maybe instead of giving him a generic +6 item, he gets something else even more interesting, like a headband that is only +4 but has a secondary power the player would find useful, more useful than 2 more WIS but at the same time, doesn't drive up his power level that much.
These are just a few ideas immediately off the top of my head.
Making him happy is, ultimately, a very small thing that can be accomplished any number of ways and has a huge benefit to the health and happiness of the entire gaming group.
And if he really is the kind of guy who is NEVER happy, if this is just the tip of the iceberg and as soon as he gets this he'll be whining about the next thing he wants, then it's time to talk to him about being a grown-up. If that doesn't work, talk to him about how his real-life greed is bringing down the whole group and how it's time for other players to get something THEY want before his turn comes around. I've never yet met a player who cannot get and understand this message.
Well first of all I would note that I was working with the information given and untill proven otherwise I think giving OP benefit of a doubt is fair practice.(and that information rang like 4 different control freak alarms) That being said I was most likely projecting some of my own experiences with bad GMs into the situation, while that does not excuse it hopefully it will help explain some things.
Yeah, I think it's much safer to assume that the OP in any thread like this is upset that the GM won't bend all the rules to their personal powergaming style or we are getting a VERY one sided description to make the player into the aggrieved party and the GM into a huge @$$hat.
I don’t think this is a matter of anyone being a huge @$$hat. But I am surprised that CommandoDude framed this as an immobile GM vs. reasonable player request. He describes me as both being unreasonable to his requests but also “he's been super reasonable about things before.” (bending rules, adding desired treasure to loot, etc..) So I think the observation that I won’t “bend all the rules to their personal powergaming style” is probably apt. My thought was that he would come here and gather information on what other players do that we could use it in a resolution.
It was my mistake to tell him to go to the boards and see what other gamers say. I should have done that myself. That was my mistake. Live and learn. I plan to take this up with him at our next game session and the “purchasing problem” will be resolved at the table. I already have some ideas for a compromise.
If anyone would like to contribute information that would be useful, I would specifically be interested in what works at YOUR table. GM and player perspectives appreciated:
1) Do you use magic item shops? If so do you roll for item availability?
2) Do you use the settlement purchase limits?
3) Do you use random magic items in shops for the specific reason of providing items that exceed the limit?
4) Do you allow unrestricted crafting? If there are restrictions what are they?
5) If an item is in a Paizo book. Does your GM always allow it? Are there ever discussions over overpowered items? Does your GM ban certain items?
6) Does your GM allow custom items? (for example: Custom slot less (+ 4 STR scabbard) or out of standard slot items (a +4 INT BELT) or downgraded items (the above mentioned +1 Celestial Armor.)
I would appreciate a deviation of the discussion from my GM’ing or CommandoDudes motivations (as I think people are reading a lot into it), and a focus on information that we can use in our game.
It was my mistake to tell him to go to the boards and see what other gamers say. I should have done that myself. That was my mistake. Live and learn. I plan to take this up with him at our next game session and the “purchasing problem” will be resolved at the table. I already have some ideas for a compromise.
If anyone would like to contribute information that would be useful, I would specifically be interested in what works at YOUR table. GM and player perspectives appreciated:
My post got eaten so a shorter version.
The game expects players to have access to valuable magic items such as +6 stat items. Since you removed all options to get it, you are running directly up against the system. If you are running Rise of the Runelords unchanged and are not using either the unchained or houserule system to avoid the games reliance on magic item, then you have a conflict with the expectations of the system.
To answer the questions:
1) Do you use magic item shops? If so do you roll for item availability?
Yes, Yes.
2) Do you use the settlement purchase limits?
Yes. But certain cities (like the City of Brass) have no purchase limit. Anything can be found for sale in these cities, given enough time and gathered information.
3) Do you use random magic items in shops for the specific reason of providing items that exceed the limit?
Yes, but also because they can make great stories.
4) Do you allow unrestricted crafting? If there are restrictions what are they?
Unrestricted crafting. Ordinary crafting rules, not Ultimate Campaign.
5) If an item is in a Paizo book. Does your GM always allow it? Are there ever discussions over overpowered items? Does your GM ban certain items?
I do. There is a very very small handful of items I consider overpowered. No one is going to start a Dust of Sneezing and Choking contest with me though.
6) Does your GM allow custom items? (for example: Custom slot less (+ 4 STR scabbard) or out of standard slot items (a +4 INT BELT) or downgraded items (the above mentioned +1 Celestial Armor.)
I do not allow custom items. I would not allow a weaker version of a specific item. However, I would allow a specific item to be enhanced normally. (So no +1 Celestial Armor, but you could take a normal Celestial Armor and enhance it to +5.)
In this campaign crafting feats ARE NOT banned. I encourage crafting. The only feats that off the table are Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wonderous Item, Craft staff and Forge Ring. The rest are open and available for use.Which if I'm not mistaken, leaves only Scribe Scroll, Brew Potion, and Craft Wand as available? Which goes with your stated emphasis on consumable items.
Which are feats that do not help with meeting the expectations of the system. And since we know what campaign it is, we know what the expectations are, unless Kildaere has significantly reworked the later portions. And those expectations are not being met.
craft construct :) he should start making golems!
==Aelryinth