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I'm stealing Ascalaphus's idea here. I thought the idea warranted its own thread.
Award a second prestige point for characters who play in Master of the Fallen fortress upon completing the secondary success condition of rescuing Balenar Forsend from Area 11 and returning all of his gear to him.
I can't think of a better reason for PCs to gain prestige and fame within the Pathfinder Society than rescuing one of their agents.
Also, since this is such a good introductory scenario, it would be nice to new players if they received 2 prestige for their first characters.
Reward GMs who run this with only 1 table credit instead of 2.
This is a short module. It takes roughly the same amount of time to run as a scenario, and the player rewards are the same as a scenario. It is reasonable to count this as only 1 table credit for GMs.
Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
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If we are going this far, I would suggest that this be true for ALL fee Gameday mods, EXCEPT whatever happens to be the latest free Gameday mod. In which case it should be 2 PP and 2 table credits. I say this because I assume Paizo initially started giving out 2 table credits for these adventures as incentive to get people to GM them at Free RPG day. If that is the case, then whatever the newest gameday mod is, should get that incentive, but the older ones should not.
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Yeah, trollbill, I'd support that.
Master of the Fallen Fortress stands out because it has such a natural and thematic secondary success condition for that extra fame and prestige.
I wouldn't mind if We Be Goblins and We Be Goblins 2 were only 1 PP and 1 table credit.
Here's an idea for future Free RPG Day modules...
On the chronicle have the following boon:
▢ Free RPG Day Check this boon if this module was run on Free RPG Day. Each player earns 1 extra prestige award for this scenario on this day. If this was not run on Free RPG Day, cross off this boon.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I would like any adventure that's roughly as long and dangerous as a regular scenario, to reward as much as a regular scenario.
That's clearly the case for MotFF. Right now it feels kind of like a poison pill; the money is below-average, the prestige is lower, and the danger is higher. At the low levels where fame can be a significant limit, and you kind of want to buy that CLW wand as soon as you can, that's bad. You're not doing anyone any favors by running this module.
The Confirmation is an excellent first chronicle. The adventure is very well-balanced, with some things in it to help new PCs get started, and a reward if it's a PC's first chronicle.
MotFF is thematically supposed to precede The Confirmation, but it's way smarter to play them the other way around. That's bad.
My proposal: allow 2PP on MotFF and put a small but cute boon on the sheet if it's your PC's first Chronicle. Something about a PFS field commission mayhap.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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My proposal: allow 2PP on MotFF and put a small but cute boon on the sheet if it's your PC's first Chronicle. Something about a PFS field commission mayhap.
I always thought there should be a 4th sheet 'boon' for playing MotFF, First Steps I and the Confirmation in that order.
MotFF - hey, you rescued a Pathfinder, he sponsored you!
First Steps- You're not full Pathfinders yet, here are some errands!
Confirmation - Here's your shot to be a Pathfinder, don't screw it up.
I do like the 2pp/1xp and a boon.
"Field Commission: Balenar Forsend sponsored your commission to the society. you get a +1 on diplomacy checks against fellow Pathfinders. You may cross off this boon to treat any one diplomacy attempt as if you rolled a natural 20."
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My proposal: allow 2PP on MotFF and put a small but cute boon on the sheet if it's your PC's first Chronicle. Something about a PFS field commission mayhap.
Yes, I would like to see something like the following boon:
▢ Friend for Life You have rescued Balenar Forsend from the Fallen Fortress. He sponsors you to join the Pathfinder Society and promises to return the favor some day. You may, as a one-time bonus, reduce the prestige cost of one prestige award by 2 (minimum 0). Cross this boon off this chronicle once used.
Venture-Captain, Ireland—Belfast
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I have run MotFF soooo many times, built the 3D maps with Hirsts Arts bricks and even played several times too. Frankly the slightly sub optimal rewards are not a biggie for me though others have always felt differently. Thing is there are loads of other options for beginners these days.
Personally I'd love to see a 7-11 "Return to the Fallen Fortress" scenario with a special boon for those PCs with the Original as their first chronicle! All I need now is to develop the talent to conceive & write it and convince Paizo to publish it ;-)
Developer
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On the chronicle have the following boon:
▢ Free RPG Day Check this boon if this module was run on Free RPG Day. Each player earns 1 extra prestige award for this scenario on this day. If this was not run on Free RPG Day, cross off this boon.
Hmmm…that's something worth considering.
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Hmmm…that's something worth considering.On the chronicle have the following boon:
▢ Free RPG Day Check this boon if this module was run on Free RPG Day. Each player earns 1 extra prestige award for this scenario on this day. If this was not run on Free RPG Day, cross off this boon.
Please don't.
The module should have an in game means of earning the second prestige... all of them should. If you want a check mark change, make it so only the most current awards the extra table of credit.
Prestige should be something the players can earn on account of their actions, not because they happened to play on a particular day.
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Hmmm…that's something worth considering.On the chronicle have the following boon:
▢ Free RPG Day Check this boon if this module was run on Free RPG Day. Each player earns 1 extra prestige award for this scenario on this day. If this was not run on Free RPG Day, cross off this boon.Please don't.
The module should have an in game means of earning the second prestige... all of them should. If you want a check mark change, make it so only the most current awards the extra table of credit.
Prestige should be something the players can earn on account of their actions, not because they happened to play on a particular day.
Yeah, I was just spitballing. I think I agree with Fomsie about prestige awards.
But I'm still in favor of giving 2 table credits for Free RPG day GMs, and then dialing it back to 1 table credit after that.
I still want to thank John for following these threads and considering suggestions.
Edit: I wonder if there was a better meta-game boon to offer for Free RPG Day. Something like opening up a particular feat from a source like the Monster Codex, but only if the module is played on Free RPG Day. Actually, I think opening Rich Parents or some other off-limits trait might be a good idea. It would only open up that trait for the character playing that module (assuming it is applied to a level 1 character). Again, just spitballing.
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The main reason Fee RPG Day modules, and the Emerald Spire and Thornkeep levels, give 2 table credits is that the database, in the past, couldn't distinguish between module and module, so all modules gave 2 table credits.
I don't have any strong feelings on reducing the table credits, other than it is what people are used to as the norm.
On the PP for free RPG day modules: Yes, please, give some way to get a second PP.
On the PP for regular modules and AP segments: It would be nice if there were some way, even if it is just "If this is an odd-numbered module/AP credit for this PC, gain an extra PP." That would move the PP for modules back to actually being 4.5, so 9 per two levels.
As it is, and I remember John saying he was going to consider it, that 4th module for Dragon's Demand is almost a penalty, rather than a benefit, for that PC, as they have gained 4 levels, but only 16 PP, instead of the "average" 18, or maximum Scenario possible PP of 24...
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The main reason Fee RPG Day modules, and the Emerald Spire and Thornkeep levels, give 2 table credits is that the database, in the past, couldn't distinguish between module and module, so all modules gave 2 table credits.
I don't have any strong feelings on reducing the table credits, other than it is what people are used to as the norm.
On the PP for free RPG day modules: Yes, please, give some way to get a second PP.
On the PP for regular modules and AP segments: It would be nice if there were some way, even if it is just "If this is an odd-numbered module/AP credit for this PC, gain an extra PP." That would move the PP for modules back to actually being 4.5, so 9 per two levels.
As it is, and I remember John saying he was going to consider it, that 4th module for Dragon's Demand is almost a penalty, rather than a benefit, for that PC, as they have gained 4 levels, but only 16 PP, instead of the "average" 18, or maximum Scenario possible PP of 24...
For what it's worth, it looks like Free RPG Day modules were going that way anyways. Risen From the Sands had an opportunity for two PP, and I wouldn't be surprised if WBG3 didn't follow the same trend.
Edit: It looks like the 64-page modules are starting to follow this trend as well, at least for playing in campaign mode. Tears at Bitter Manor has something to bridge the PP gap, As well as the other new modules excepting Dragon's Demand.
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The table of credit issue is not going to be fixed. The system recognizes only two types of adventures: Scenarios (worth one table of credit) or Modules (worth two). Paizo decided the resources to fix the system issue weren't worth it compared to the relatively minor problem of some GMs getting two tables worth of credit for a scenario length module.
Venture-Captain, Netherlands
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I'm stealing Ascalaphus's idea here. I thought the idea warranted its own thread.
Award a second prestige point for characters who play in Master of the Fallen fortress upon completing the secondary success condition of rescuing Balenar Forsend from Area 11 and returning all of his gear to him.
I can't think of a better reason for PCs to gain prestige and fame within the Pathfinder Society than rescuing one of their agents.
I really like this idea. Master of the Fallen Fortress has been around for a while, and fits really nicely in the evergreen section Paizo is creating.
It really lends itself to new players, as a lot of the mechanics from Pathfinder are included in it. (combat, skillchecks, special abilities, spellcasting, traps)I have run it several times for new players, but as said by others, if those players choose to continue in PFS, they wont be able to buy a wand untill after their second play. If you have a group of more new players, that could easily mean a table is without healing.
I understand that it might be hard to adjust this in the system. But maybe MotFF could be made a scenario instead?
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I am in favour of this proposal. I ran this not too long ago, and it was a great introductory scenario but I'm put off running it again due to the 1 PP limit.
I'm less fussed about it moving from 2 to 1 table of credit, or how else am I going to catch up to the PFS veterans ;) (although seriously, I would like to see this give one table credit for fairness sake).
I agree with Woran that this could be retired as a free RPG day module and instead made into a replayable scenario.
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Is free RPG day a big thing in the US ? I mean if you want to try PFS you can do so pretty much for free, just sign up to an even, grab a pregen and roll some dice.
It drives a lot of foot traffic from what I've seen. There's also Free Comic Book Day (this upcoming Saturday, in fact), which is one of the single largest events for some game stores all year. In the US, the word "free" tends to make people run in droves. It doesn't matter that PFS is typically free, though, since it's ongoing instead of a limited time offer.
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Nah, that is people in general... something is announced as free, and everyone wants one.
It's also an event where there is more than one thing happening that is usually more heavily advertised by the store. So, someone can come and check out several games, go home with several free products, and see what they like. In the past we've had a lot of walk-ins on Free RPG Day (especially parents who used to game bringing their kids), so it's a good time to attract new potential regular players.
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I'm surprised there wasn't more interest in this :(
I'd love to see this become a fully fledged evergreen scenario, although I can appreciate it not being high on the dev's list of priorities.
As a secondary passing thought, I'd like to see a number of PFS scenarios made compatible with the beginner box, and thought that this would be a strong candidate. The prestige issue would need to be resolved first though.
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But is it really "insulting" to play a game and get less reward than another game? It's not enough that Paizo wrote and released this cool adventure for free, and that they sanctioned it for PfS play, and that they allow unlimitied replay, but it's insulting that I also don't get as many points for it? That attitude is insulting to the Paizo folks.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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Because of course we only play to get points.
It's supposed to be a gateway scenario, but despite being easily as dangerous as most low-tier scenarios, you get a subpar reward that won't even let you buy a Wand for the next scenario.
It's a very bad choice as a first scenario for a character, while the flavor suggests it should be a very good choice.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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Because of course we only play to get points.It's supposed to be a gateway scenario, but despite being easily as dangerous as most low-tier scenarios, you get a subpar reward that won't even let you buy a Wand for the next scenario.
It's a very bad choice as a first scenario for a character, while the flavor suggests it should be a very good choice.
You used to get 0 pp for it though. Now at least you get 1pp for any of the FreeRPG modules, some (WBG) might be less 'gateway to society', but in this case consistency for all FreeRPG modules seems more important than that extra prestige.
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But is it really "insulting" to play a game and get less reward than another game? It's not enough that Paizo wrote and released this cool adventure for free, and that they sanctioned it for PfS play, and that they allow unlimitied replay, but it's insulting that I also don't get as many points for it? That attitude is insulting to the Paizo folks.
I do find it in insulting. It's telling me that my time spent at that table isn't worth as much to Paizo as my time spent at another table (which the scenarios are already provided by Paizo at this point anyway so it being free is a moot point). Even though I've spent hundreds of dollars solely on their products. So whichever table I sit at does absolutely nothing to further money going into (or not into) their pockets.
It's also not good for the player base because of people that share my thoughts. If I can play either MotFF or the confirmation, why would I ever sit at MotFF knowing I can get rewarded better for my time (and still have fun, mind you) if I instead play the confirmation? So experienced players will gravitate towards the confirmation leaving a better chance of inexperienced players playing MotFF.
Yes, that's a generalization, but if there are 10 people going to play, half of which are new, and 3 of which have my attitude, then you're going to end up with ~4 new players at MotFF with only one experienced person which usually doesn't make for a good night for the GM. Or even if the other 2 experienced players don't have my specific attitude, chances are we've been playing games together at this location so they're going to sign up to play with the other three just because they want to play with us/don't want to play with inexperienced players (or they specifically don't want to play with one of us three, there's always that one guy in any gaming group).
So yeah, I can see absolutely no reason in favor of gimping the rewards for free rpg day modules.
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I think you should always have the chance to earn that extra prestige to keep the potential of 1xp-2pp, as that forms a restriction on how you can spend your gold.
For Free RPG Day modules or even full length modules that are currently awarding 4pp, there should be benchmarks where you earn more prestige due to extent of your achievements. It can't entirely be a matter of doing something for the Society, but also just the individual notoriety of a successful adventurer.
And it should always be something you earn in the scenario/module. Something the player has control over being possible, and not some limited time boon or "if you play on this day" nonsense. Let the players have the chance to earn the most out of their reputation and reap the rewards of it.
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In case anyone from Paizo is 'keeping score', I'm fine with keeping things the way they are. In all the times I've GMed WBG etc. I've never met anyone who felt insulted by only getting 1 prestige.
+1 to this.
Also, please don't do anything that may break the reporting system (again). IMHO, the change isn't worth the risk.-TimD
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Venture-Captain, Netherlands
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I think you should always have the chance to earn that extra prestige to keep the potential of 1xp-2pp, as that forms a restriction on how you can spend your gold.
For Free RPG Day modules or even full length modules that are currently awarding 4pp, there should be benchmarks where you earn more prestige due to extent of your achievements. It can't entirely be a matter of doing something for the Society, but also just the individual notoriety of a successful adventurer.
And it should always be something you earn in the scenario/module. Something the player has control over being possible, and not some limited time boon or "if you play on this day" nonsense. Let the players have the chance to earn the most out of their reputation and reap the rewards of it.
I totally agree with you. Adaptable PP for modules would be really sweet too, altough that would put way more strain on the sanctioning of them.