Oracle Armor and Magic Vestments: Anything Official?

[Gauss]

Balgin wrote:

_Ozy_ wrote:

This of course only applies to oracle revelations that create physical armor. Not all armor revelations do, as you so note, just like it wouldn't apply to the mage armor spell.

I would never claim that Magic Vestment could target Spirit Shield. However, since Mage Armour can target non magical garments that do not need to be a suit of armour it's quite understandable that (at the gm's discretion), Magic Vestment can target the garments worn while Spirit Shield is active. Since Spirit Shield if an Armour bonus and Magic Vestment is an Enhancement bonus to the Armour bonus ..... you can see how it could go either way.

Magic Vestment

Quote:

An outfit of regular clothing counts as armour that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell.

Actually that seems pretty cut and dried to me. One is an armour bonus being provided to the character. Another is an enhancement bonus to the character's armour bonus. These two are different bonus types. You can argue about bonus types and item slots all you like as every group is likely to come to their own consensus. It's not about whether the bonus types can stack. it's about if the magic vestment spell can be applied at all in the first place. Perhaps the question should not be whether the magic vestment spell can be applied but what it would be applied to.

If the oracle's armour revelation clearly creates physical protection of a more tangible nature then it's another matter entirely.

Perhaps you missed my quote earlier, but the rules clearly state something different from your above statement (that I have bolded).

Here it is again:

CRB p179 wrote:

Enhancement Bonuses: Enhancement bonuses apply to your armor to increase the armor bonus it provides.

If you cast Magic Vestment on your clothes you get an enhancement bonus that increases the clothing's AC bonus. It increases the clothing's AC bonus from +0 to +1 through +5 (depending on the level of the caster).

Magic Vestment does not give the character an enhancement to his armor bonus.
It increases the AC provided by the characters armor and because of this you cannot cast Magic Vestment on your clothes and then have any other source of armor bonus and expect them both to work.
Due to the stacking rules only one armor bonus to AC, the highest, will work. The armor bonus to AC includes any enhancement bonuses to Armor such as from Magic Vestment.

[Byakko]

Dotting.

Btw, I've always considered these effects to be similar to Mage Armor. They provide a magical set of armor which can't really be modified or targeted. Imho, you can use one of these abilities while wearing normal armor, although you'd only gain the AC benefits of whichever had the higher value.

[sunbeam]

Geez all this hullabaloo over the wording of fluff text describing a type of revelation common to a number of oracles.

Look, all these different types of similar armor, fill the same purpose. They all have the same stats, have the same number of hours per day they can be used, etc. The only difference is that each set has an additional bonus like 5 DR/Slashing, a bonus to stealth (think one does that), or a blur effect against ranged attacks, that sort of thing.

To me some of the arguments used in this thread are ludicrous. Just because the flavor text for the Wind Oracle's ability is worded differently from the Wood Oracle's, one should work and one shouldn't?

Heck it you are rolling that way, a Wind Oracle's armor wouldn't work underwater I'd wager, but I've never heard of anyone playing it that way.

Long story short, there is abolutely no evidence that the dev staff ever considered that anyone would cast Magic Vestment on these things. I am utterly positive they never thought "Hmmmm, okay you can cast Magic Vestment on the Oracle of Bones' Armor, but you can't on the Oracle of Shadow's... yeah that's it, that is the way to balance it."

You are parsing something that was never considered by the devs.

The only question is whether you think any of them should be capable of being affected by Magic Vestment. I say yes.

Tell me something. If I used one of the creation spells to make a wooden shield, can you cast Magic Vestment on that? Yes or no. It is a perfectly normal wooden shield, except it is going to disappear in a number of hours.

So what is the difference with the Oracle features? Other than someone parsing flavor text that was written without the slightest inkling anyone would try something like this?

[Byakko]

Creation spells actually make physical, real objects.

The Oracle abilities are supernatural effects that grant an armor bonus. I see the description of these abilities as fluff.

That's just my opinion.

[_Ozy_]

Byakko wrote:

Creation spells actually make physical, real objects.

The Oracle abilities are supernatural effects that grant an armor bonus. I see the description of these abilities as fluff.

That's just my opinion.

So, in your opinion a monk/oracle could wear the bone armor and be considered 'unarmored' as if he had a mage armor spell cast on him?

[graystone]

_Ozy_ wrote:

Byakko wrote:

Creation spells actually make physical, real objects.

The Oracle abilities are supernatural effects that grant an armor bonus. I see the description of these abilities as fluff.

That's just my opinion.

So, in your opinion a monk/oracle could wear the bone armor and be considered 'unarmored' as if he had a mage armor spell cast on him?

I would say they could. That bone armor, with no weight, encumbrance or anything that would hinder the monk. Monks clothing would be more armor that the oracle ability. Heck, even bracers of armor was more weight/encumbrance with a weight of 1 lb, and is more likely to hinder a monk.

Armor would be a physical set of armor with armor type, weight, max dex, armor check penalty, and speed. Oracle 'armors' have none of the things that actual armor has.

[Byakko]

_Ozy_ wrote:

Byakko wrote:

Creation spells actually make physical, real objects.

The Oracle abilities are supernatural effects that grant an armor bonus. I see the description of these abilities as fluff.

That's just my opinion.

So, in your opinion a monk/oracle could wear the bone armor and be considered 'unarmored' as if he had a mage armor spell cast on him?

Yep.

[_Ozy_]

I think this is again one of those cases where I wish we could put money down on an eventual FAQ from the devs. ;)

[graystone]

_Ozy_ wrote:

I think this is again one of those cases where I wish we could put money down on an eventual FAQ from the devs. ;)

We can always hope we get one. They've been doing pretty well lately on getting some FAQ's answered. I think a better question to FAQ would be:

Do the armor abilities from oracle revelations, like armor of bones, count as armor for spells, feats and class abilities that require armor or unarmored. For instance is it a valid target for magic vestment and does it stop a monk from using flurry?

[nennafir]

DocShock wrote:

Hey Guys,

There are a few threads that discuss whether or not you can cast magic vestments on a suit of summoned armor from the Oracle's mystery abilities like Armor of Bones. Has there been any comment from the designers, from the FAQ, from Sean K. Reynolds, ANYTHING official? I ask because our GM is on the fence about allowing it in our game, and a designer comment would push him one way or the other.

Anyone know of anything official about the combo?

Thanks

Sorry for the thread necro. Was this ever decided one way or another?