I have a fellow player who wants to play a Leonal, he loved the artwork in the d&D 3.5 MM and he says that would be really cool to play, a strong lion like beast man. He says he does not find the Catfolk to be up to snuff as they are not big and strong they are sleek small house cat like race.
So is there anything we can do to help him out without outright saying no? I know racial traits often allow for a change, but he doesn't want to play a Catfolk even if we say changed the ability scores.
Use the race builder using the Race point system
I thought of that, I wanted to ask if I could get some feedback on the build. if that is alright.
Sure, what do you have?
Outsider (Native) (3)
Medium Sized (0)
Slow Speed (-1)
Advanced Ability (4) [+2 Physical Scores; +4 Cha -2 Int]
Standage Language (0)
Bite (1)
Claws (2)
Pyromaniac (3)
[1/day—dancing lights, f lare, prestidigitation, produce f lame. ]
Celestial Resistance (3) [5 Resistance to Cold, Acid, and Electricity]
Exalted Resistance (3) [6+Lvl against spells of the evil descriptor or cast by evil outsiders]
Fast (1) (+10 to Speed)
Stalker (1) [Stealth and Perception are class skills]
Total 20
I went to 20 RP due to trying to at least give it a powerful build compared to the Leonal.
I suppose I could look into getting the DM to look at the features table to help shape out the look of a Leonal.
If you are open to third party classes, go to pfsrd, click on the fan labs at the bottom of the sidebar and scroll to the bottom of that page. There's a set of Racial classes, one of which is Leonal.
My son wanted to play Ajani Goldmane as a barbarian for our RotRL campaign - I created a couple of alternate racial traits for catfolk that seem to be working very well:
The following racial traits may be selected instead of typical catfolk racial traits. Consult your GM before selecting any of these new options.
Big Cat: Although most catfolk resemble the smaller felines, there are some tribes that are more akin to the larger feline species, such as lions and tigers. In addition to the minor differences in physical appearance, these catfolk receive a +2 Strength, +2 Charisma, -2 Wisdom. This replaces the catfolk's normal racial attribute package.
Fearsome Presence: Some catfolk, especially those resembling the big cats, tend to overwhelm and even frighten other races with their appearance and forceful personalities. These catfolk receive a +2 racial bonus to their Intimidate skill. This racial trait replaces cat's luck.
I found this was much easier than creating a new race from scratch. You're more than welcome to use my ideas, if they fit what you were looking for...
Sorry, I didn't catch your last sentence about the player not wanting a catfolk, so my idea probably won't be much help, after all.
I'd tend to throw my vote behind an Aasimar alternate, in that case.
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I would go with something like Synjon's idea. It's only a basic rebuild of Catfolk but a 20 rp with +2 to all phys stats, element resist, SR, natural attacks and such? That race could easily be a "derailer." In my opinion that's a bit over the top if you are just rebuilding them to physically resemble the leonal. It all depends on what style of game you are running and what type of GM you are but that's giving in to the players wants way to much. As a gm i would say...you can play a catfolk with changed up stat as above in Synjon's post or you can pick another race...
I love the race creator but it is very easy to put way to much into one race and make it unbalanced. Depending on what the other players are going with is a deciding factor as well. But if they are going with core races or even some of the advanced races they won't be up to par with that particular race. If I were to allow that race I would give at least some drawbacks to it since -2 int is really the only negative to the entire race. I would at least get rid of pyromaniac, exalted resistance, and change the stat scores to a standard array +2 Phys, +2 Mental, -2 to one of your choice and it would still be a pretty dang good race that in all aspects resembles the physical look and flavor of a leonal
The 3.5 Ptolus had an anthropomorphic lion race called Litorians, tall and powerful, the lion-like litorians are the noble savages of the Lands of the Diamond Throne.
The fluff anddepictions fit a mighty lion man.
Here's a PF conversion
Here's a conversion by Rite Publishing (comes with paper minis!)
Outsider (Native) (3)
Medium Sized (0)
Slow Speed (-1)
Advanced Ability (4) [+2 Physical Scores; +4 Cha -2 Int]
Standage Language (0)
Bite (1)
Claws (2)
Pyromaniac (3)
[1/day—dancing lights, f lare, prestidigitation, produce f lame. ]
Celestial Resistance (3) [5 Resistance to Cold, Acid, and Electricity]
Exalted Resistance (3) [6+Lvl against spells of the evil descriptor or cast by evil outsiders]
Fast (1) (+10 to Speed)
Stalker (1) [Stealth and Perception are class skills]
Total 20I went to 20 RP due to trying to at least give it a powerful build compared to the Leonal.
Couple of questions, why slow speed for a -1 and then get fast for +1?
Why the spelk like abilities? Don't remember his character having those.
I would trade the points spent there to get greater resistance. 11 +level may let the character to resist some spells.
It seems he more or less wants a Lion-man but the Leonal are a heavy source of inspiration. the Spell-likes are due tot he spells that the Leonal can cast he can at-will fireballs for example and out of the spell-likes from the book those seemed more in line with what the Leonal could do. Spell Resistance is tricky as it effects both spells from enemies and spells from allies.
I do believe he wants a bit of the mechanics but mostly its flavor. I will look at the conversion.
Half-Races are not supposed to get nearly all the benefits of the parent, normally you can choose between a couple of weaker versions but not get them all at the same time. Here is a balanced (normal Aasimar/Tiefling race point spread) version that gets most of it, with options for the other things you included at the beginning.
Leonal-kin
Native Outsider (3RP)
Medium
Base Speed 30ft
Abilities: +2 Str +2 Cha -2 Int
Standard Language
Celestial Resistances (5 Acid Cold Electricity)(3RP)
Natural Attack: Claws x2 (2RP)
Pyromaniac: Can cast Dancing Lights, Flare, and Prestidigitation each 1/day. If they have a Charisma of 11 or higher, they can cast Produce Flame 1/day. (3RP)
Stalker: Perception and Stealth class skills. (1RP)Total: 12 Race pts.
Getting 3 primary natural attacks requires feats for any balanced race, or you can get one as a secondary for a trait. Having all 3 in a base playable race makes them extremely more powerful at levels up to 7, and on par until level 14 or so.
Alternate traits:
Stalker can be traded for Pride Leader: Intimidate/Sense Motive as class skills.
Celestial Resist can be traded for the SR Vs evil outsiders you had originally, but not both.Trade the SLA for the bite would be the other option for more physical.
Trade the Natural attacks for extra uses per day of the SLAs (1 extra on all the cantrips, or 1 more produce flame, but not both for more magicky).Feats:
Option for feats from the catfolk race like sprinter, sharp claw, etc. Option for Tiefling feat Nat Armor (call it Thick Hide or such).
Option for expanded racial spellcasting feats like Kitsune get, pick spells the Leonal get starting at lowest and going up. Have to take lower before you can get the higher.
I like this. It gives a lot of what was discussed, but forces the player to make choices - after all, you can't have everything & still be a balanced, playable race.
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Agreed that is a much more balanced race creator build there. I wouldn't have trouble allowing a player to use that race. It seems along par with most of the advanced races and more closely matches the power-level of a leonal-like pc race (if he was wanting SLA's and Natural Attacks associated with such race).
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Yes, that's a good race.
Spell Resistance is tricky as it effects both spells from enemies and spells from allies.
Exalted Resistance specifically only affects evil spells or spells cast by evil outsiders, so it normally won't interfere with friendly spells (except maybe Infernal Healing). However that also means it won't block all hostile effects.