[threadjack]@Elghinn - came across your purloin'd Blood Witch Half-Orc racial archetype after stumbling across the source material thread, and had some ideas.
Why not give the Blood Witch the ability to inflict bleed damage with weapons in the athame ability, and then give the Blood Witch a +1 to hex DCs against foes suffering from bleed.
Then, give the familiar the ability to also inflict bleed damage with natural attacks.
If you're worried about toosing something for balance, you could always make a bleed hex (sharp slice, bleeding cuts, claret cut or similar) that endows the ability.
Another method would be to cause the blood witch to take on the bleeding condition to empower her own weapons with the bleed inflicting descriptor, or just to give her a +1 to hex DCs.
* Another hex idea would be blood spray, allowing the blood witch to cause bleeding creatures (including herself or her familar) to create an obfuscating spray of blood for an AC buff (if self or familiar) or attack penalty or AC penalty (foes). This would be a visual effect.
To put it another way - I don't think you took the blood far enough. ;)[/threadjack]
Great ideas. I shall look into it.
Oh, BTW, all my working docs (MCA and MCA ACG) are now empty, which means everything we've made is on the wiki. However, i still need to go through the wiki and see what is missing, because I know I've missed some over the years, and just need to find them on my master docs and post them. Theat's next.
@Elghinn
Any chance you might be able to post on the wiki and finish up your specialty casters?
Perhaps. Do yo mean the school casters (evoker, transmuter, conjurer, etc)? Or the others - Necromage, Warlock, etc.? I assume the former.
[threadjack]@Elghinn - came across your purloin'd Blood Witch Half-Orc racial archetype after stumbling across the source material thread, and had some ideas.
Why not give the Blood Witch the ability to inflict bleed damage with weapons in the athame ability, and then give the Blood Witch a +1 to hex DCs against foes suffering from bleed.
Then, give the familiar the ability to also inflict bleed damage with natural attacks.
If you're worried about toosing something for balance, you could always make a bleed hex (sharp slice, bleeding cuts, claret cut or similar) that endows the ability.
Another method would be to cause the blood witch to take on the bleeding condition to empower her own weapons with the bleed inflicting descriptor, or just to give her a +1 to hex DCs.
* Another hex idea would be blood spray, allowing the blood witch to cause bleeding creatures (including herself or her familar) to create an obfuscating spray of blood for an AC buff (if self or familiar) or attack penalty or AC penalty (foes). This would be a visual effect.
To put it another way - I don't think you took the blood far enough. ;)[/threadjack]
Herald! I've made some changes to Blood Athame and added 2 new hexes for the archetype. Go check it out.
Yesss!!! Will do! Lookout for an email/PM soon too - I never seem to see you on chat anymore... :(
[EDIT] Ooh, verr nice!!! Arterial Spray indeed!!! [/EDIT]
Abjurer is on the wiki fro you Jon.
Since I said I'd move away from the tinkering/artificing style classes for a bit, I plan to stick to that this time around.
I'm thinking of a pure plant based Druid of some kind, I've been looking into newer material such as the 'train plants' and 'grow plant creature' perks, and replacing the standard animal companion with the plant creature variants already available.
Thoughts?
EDIT:
As much as I'd like to avoid an alchemist/investigator secondary, I think it has some strong potential with the crafting buff and ability to handle poisons, going into a sort of Botanist or Horticulturist.
I was also debating Witch or Shaman, and widening the concept into a swamp themed kinda deal, borrowing off with some of the hexes that fit the nature theme such as swamp hag, mud witch and so on.
There's also the option of focusing more on the plant creatures and going with a Summoner or Hunter secondary, and working from there.
Hmm, I think i'll divide it into two concepts;
Investigator/Druid - Botanist
Druid/Witch - Swamp Warlock
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Investigator/Druid - Botanist
I say start with this one.
--------------------------------------------------------------Weaver - Oracle/Unchained Rogue
From fiber to thread, thread to cloth, cloth to dress, the path of a tailor literally weaves its way from basic beginnings to extravagant ends. And while this alone can prove a long and arduous journey, a weaver’s work spans more than just the spinning of strings and the sewing of seams. As the lives and fates of all are sown together in a great tapestry, so too much a weaver come to understand such things. Those who wish to excel at their craft must also stay attuned to the latest trends, both of fashion and of culture to ensuring their work is never scoffed at by their peers for being anything less then the best. Just as is is said that the course of fate is like the weave of a great Spinner, the warp and weft of a weaver’s work, too, have been known to alter the course of destinies both large and small.
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I picked rogue mostly because of the skill edges and overall focus on being a class of skill while being the best, or second best, socially. In this case though the first edges will need be that of Profession (tailor), Spellcraft, and Perception as from these all other abilities will follow. Also skill in only light weapons so as to compare to the delicate and more precise nature of weaving.
Also, a Weave Mystery
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Insightful Weaver - Oracle/UC Rogue
Build consideration:
* Weave Mystery... which will be the hardest part, plus full number of revelations
* Spellcasting like a paladin or ranger, focus on divination, illusions, enchantment, and conjuration (creation and item calling) spells.
* 6 skills per level, oracle skill list + 4 rogue skills and skills from mystery. Profession (tailor), Craft (cloth and clothing), Spellcraft, Perception, and perhaps one Knowledge (nobility or local).
* Choice to gain rogue talents, plus gaining a number of skill edges though no more then half the number of rogues which are used for mystery skills.
Looks interesting Jon! not too familiar with the unchained material myself just yet, though from what I hear Rogue is one of those classes people wanted updating to be more competitive.
on the subject of new classes, a little something caught my eye;
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/ultimateIntrigue
looks interesting, I'm curious when/if/where this will happen.
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Unchained Rogue
Hmm, from the playtest Ultimate Intrigue just offers a Vigilante class at least partly inspired by Batman though the Warlock path leads me to consider Doctor Strange.
Note to self, stop by soon with some remakes of some of my monk mcas with an unchained slant.
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Note to self, stop by soon with some remakes of some of my monk mcas with an unchained slant.
Actually, there has been quite the 'broken base' when it comes to the Unchained Monk... especially over the loss of a good Will save. Many on here feel the new UM improves very little and is worse where it is most important. That, and many core UM abilities have been turned to Ki Powers without an increase in Ki Pool while also being incomparable with any Monk archetypes. Simply put... I feel it may well be best just to leave your MCAs be without messing with Unchained Monk.
So, I have a quick version of the Botanist ready, here's what I had in mind;
Primary: Druid
Secondary: Investigator
Nature Bond: May pick from the following Domains: Earth, Plant, Sun, Water, Poison, Wildgrowth, Jungle, Swamp or the new Fungus domain. The Botanist may instead pick a Plant Companion
Woodland Sentry: acts as woodland stride and trap sense, but only senses natural hazards (poisonous plants, pitfalls, etc.)
Herbalism: acts as alchemy, uses wisdom in place of intelligence. may pick alchemist discoveries that affect potions in place of feats at normal progression (all those that effect extracts and poisons). Some druid spells will be added too.
Nature Sense: The Same
Plant Speaker: at 1st level, gain sylvan as a bonus language and the 'train plants' feat, at 3rd level, also able to use 'speak with plants' constantly.
Wild Empathy: wild empathy on plants, and plant like abberations and magical creatures (at -4 penalty)
Grow Plant Creature: gain the 'grow plant creature' feat, replaces Trackless Step
Poison Lore: Replaces Resist Nature's Lure
Swift Herbalism: replaces spontanious casting
Wild Shape: Plant Shape Only
Venom Immunity: The Same
Plant Sight: May cast Detect Animals or Plants (Plants only) and Greensight at will. Gat 1/2 your level as a competence bonus on survival, knowledge: nature and craft: alchemy when identifying plants and their properties. Replaces 1000 faces
Lifeseed: grow a clone of yourself ready when you die, as the 'clone' spell. replaces timeless body
Seed Extract: (see horticulturist): replaces summon natures ally
Fungal Growth At level 4, May cast 'Putrefy Food and Drink' in a 30ft radius as many times per day equal to 3 plus charisma/wisdom modifier.
Spore Breather At level 8, you become immune to airborne poisons and diseases
Spells: 1st- Euphoric Cloud, 2nd- Spore Burst, 3rd- Fungal Infestation, 4th- Explosion of Rot, 5th- Cloudkill, 6th- Plague Storm, 7th- Animate Plants (Fungus Only), 8th- Horrid Wilting, 9th- Shambler (Spore Mound Variant Only)
Here's a few things I used as inspiration;
Herbalist
Horticulturist
Treesinger
I've also got a few ideas for the upcoming vigilante class, if we're taking it on board;
Vigilante/Druid - Shapeshifter
Vigilante/Alchemist - Jekyll and Hyde style class
Vigilante/Rogue - Guised Rogue.
Also, I've got a new idea that I'm too excited about to put aside;
Magus/Investigator - Venomancer
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Your Botanist looks good to me, I don't see anything glaring that need to be changed or fixed. Heh, I admit I wouldn't make use of the Fungus domain myself but that is personal taste.
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Vigilante/Druid - Shapeshifter.... how will it work differently then my own Persona Shifter?
Now the nature of the MCAs will be different, one coming from doppelganger blood while the other comes from druidic wildshaping but mechanically how will it be different?
Your Botanist looks good to me, I don't see anything glaring that need to be changed or fixed. Heh, I admit I wouldn't make use of the Fungus domain myself but that is personal taste.
------------------------------------Vigilante/Druid - Shapeshifter.... how will it work differently then my own Persona Shifter?
Now the nature of the MCAs will be different, one coming from doppelganger blood while the other comes from druidic wildshaping but mechanically how will it be different?
Druid pairs up nicely since it has Wild Shape and 1000 Faces, I will be making it so that it doesn't step on the territory of the persona shifter, but the Vigilante class kinda does that on it's own.
He won't be able to read minds, nor mimic voices, he will instead have a pool of shapes he can turn into, such as beast shape, vermin shape, elemental body and so on. In short, yours will be more about disguising oneself, while mine will be more like taking forms for combat or other physical challenges.
Continue on as you are guys. I think you all have plenty of MCA building experience to do well. For now, I will be busy building a Spheres-based divine caster class, and yes, I am going through all the cleric spells and assigning them to a specific sphere. I will also include spells from the other classes that are appropriate. I'll let you know how things are going here and there. Currently, I'm on level 3 Cleric spells. Wish me luck.
I'm just waiting for Occult adventures to be released to pitch a monk/mesmerist who focuses on self-hypnosis fakir-like things.
I'll have a proper writeup of the Botanist soon, been a little hectic over here the past few days so I've been rather quiet. Once that's all done, I may go onto testing the Vigilante some more and see what MCAs I can come up with it (if it succeeds it's trails and we take it on board that is).
In the meantime I'll probably throw a quick idea or two up here, like the Venomancer, and see how things turn out.
The art of Botany combines academic knowledge with the mysteries of nature, and in doing so creates a new kind of science that utilizes plantlife in a similar way to druids, but with a more careful and calculated approach. By using special extracts, the Botanist may harness the power of plants, and become connected to the wild in a similar way to druids. By creating plant-like minions and reshaping the battlefield with special extracts, the Botanist can alter the course of battle in an instant.
Primary: Druid
Secondary: Investigator
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d8
Nature Bond: This is exactly like the druid ability of the same name, though she may only pick from the following Domains: Earth, Plant, Sun, Water, Poison, Wildgrowth, Jungle, Swamp or the new Fungus domain. Domain spells cannot be used to create extracts spontaneously. In regards to domain spells, the Botanist treats her 1st and 2nd level domains spells as 1st– and 2nd–level extracts, but treats her 3rd and 4th level domain spells as 3rd–level extracts, 5th and 6th level domain spells as 4th–level extracts, 7th level domain spell as a 5th–level extract, and 8th level domain spell as a 6th–level extract. If an Botanist has a spell granted by her domain on her formulae list already, she uses the spell as an extract at its earliest level.
The Botanist may instead pick a Plant Companion, acting as her Animal Companion (See Plant Companions)
Woodland Sentry: From level 2, the Botanist is treated as having the Druid's Woodland Stride ability. At level 4, and every 2 levels thereafter, she gains +1 bonus on Reflex saving throws to avoid natural hazards and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks by natural hazards. This ability replaces Woodland Stride and Trackless Step.
Herbalism: This ability acts like the Investigatgor's Alchemy ability, though instead the Botanist uses her Wisdom in place of Her intelligence. In addition, she also adds the following extracts to the list she may choose from (extracts marked with an asterisk are instead poured upon earthen soil or any noted target to release their effects); 1st- Abstemiousness, Acid Maw*, Entangle*, Goodberry*, Nature's Paths, Thorn Javelin* 2nd- Climbing Beanstalk*, Defoliate*, Forest Friend, Greensight, Plant Voice, Sickening Entanglement*, Spore Burst*, Tree Shape, Wilderness Soldiers* 3rd- Burst of Nettles, Clear Grove*, Diminish Plants*, Plant Growth*, Speak with Plants, thorny Entanglement* 4th- Antiplant Shell*, 5th- Awaken (Tree Only)* Commune with Nature, Tree Stride, Wall of Thorns*, 6th- Fire Seeds*, Liveoak*, Transport Via Plants. This ability replaces spellcasting
Seed Extract: At 1st level, the Botanist gains the ability to summon amazing animate plants using alchemically treated seeds. The Botanist adds summon monster I-VI as 1st- through 6th-level extracts, respectively, to his class extract list. For example, he automatically adds summon monster I to his formula book at 1st level, and adds the higher-level spells to his formula book each time he gains the ability to use extracts of those levels. Using these extracts takes 1 round (as the spell's normal casting time), and the creature summoned must be placed in a space adjacent to the Botanist.
The Botanist can't use these extracts to summon any of the elementals or outsiders listed on the spells' summoning tables. Creatures the Botanist summons with these extracts become creatures with the plant type (gaining low-light vision and immunity to mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, polymorph, sleep effects, and stun) rather than their normal type, but their attack bonuses, Hit Dice, saving throws, and skills don't change. This ability replaces Summon Nature's Ally.
Nature Sense: The Same
Plant Speaker: at 1st level, The Botanist instead gains Sylvan as a bonus language in addition to Druidic, and also gains the the 'train plants' feat. At 3rd level, the Botanist is treated as being under the effects of 'speak with plants' constantly.
Wild Empathy: A Botanist's Wild Empathy only works on creatures of the plant type. She may also use wild empathy to influence Fey, Aberrations and Magical Beasts that are plantlike in nature (but at a -4 penalty).
Grow Plant Creature: At 3rd level, the Botanist gains the 'grow plant creature' feat as a bonus feat.
Poison Lore: At 2nd level the Botanist gains the Poison Lore ability of Investigators. This ability replaces Resist Nature's Lure
Swift Herbalism: At 3rd level, the Botanist gains the Swift Alchemy ability of Investigators. This ability replaces spontaneous casting.
Wild Shape: At 4th level, the Botanist gains the Wild Shape ability, though she may only take the form of plants. she can assume the form of a Small or Medium plant. This functions as plant shape I, except the Botanist does not yet gain access to the constrict or poison abilities of the plant form assumed.
At 8th level, the Botanist's wild shape gains the full range of abilities available from plant shape I. At 10th level, a Botanist can assume the form of a Large or Tiny plant. Her wild shape ability now functions like plant shape II.
At 12th level, a Botanist can assume the form of a Huge plant. Her wild shape ability now functions like plant shape III.
Venom Immunity: The Same
Plant Sight: At 13th level, the Botanist may cast Detect Animals or Plants (Plants only) and Greensight at will as a spell-like ability. She also gains 1/2 her Botanist level as a competence bonus on survival, knowledge: nature and craft: alchemy when identifying plants and their properties. This ability replaces One Thousand Faces
Lifeseed: At 15th level, the Botanist can cultivate an alchemically imbued seed that when planted eventually grows into a clone of the Botanist within 2d4 weeks. If the Botanist dies, she is automatically reincarnated within the planted body, and gains the plant type. This ability replaces Timeless Body.
Also, can I request that the newer version of the 'Pyrotechnics' ability as seen in Flameslinger is also the standard for my other MCAs? (Catalyst Grenadier and Fire Dancer).
I think the Flameslinger variant of it is more concise and appropriate, and it only dawned on me that the other two were a little out of date. :)
Fixed Catalyst Grenadier.
Not sure how to include it into Fire Dancer. Did we miss including the alchemist's "Alchemy" ability in the write up? It has Swift and Instant Pyrotechnics, but no Pyrotechnics ability. So, I'm adding it in.
cheers for that, El! :)
HI guys, i started reading this thread a while ago and really like the concepts, though im s*++e at working out game mechanics i had an idea some of you might like.
Its a druid/alchemist, the style is dr jackyl and mr hyde. Using the druids wild shape in combination with the beastmorphs mutagens to turn into semi monstrous things. Also possibly using congnatagens to increase his mental functions while not under the effects of wildshape/mutagen.
It would also work rather well with the ragechemist archetype, combining the mutagen and wildshape abilities.
It doesn't require any of the bombs or anything, but possibly some of the druid spell list based around buffing oneself physically
Or even a druid/mindchemist. Weak but smart or strong and stupid, depending on what form he is in
Welcome J4RH34D!
Sounds like a pretty cool idea, anything alchemist related always gets my attention, I'm a sucker for potion-poppers and pyromania.
Since we already have a Druid/Alchemist, perhaps we can rework the idea of a dual persona style alchemist with the upcoming Vigilante class? (currently in playtest beta). You could easily create a Jekyll and Hyde style class from that, as Vigilante/Alchemist, or vice-versa, using the mutagen to shift personas.
Also, check out the Master Chymist prestige class, it's very similar to your concept :)
aahh, i lokked here table thing.
and it didnt have alchemist druid
i havent looked at the vigilante class either. i will have a look.
So has my idea been done? or have i actually contributed?
There is of course the likes of the Persona Shifter MCA that seem very similar, and some other classes with their own take on wild shape/polymorphing, but since Vigilante has not been released yet, the Alchemist/Vigilante idea certainly hasn't been made yet.
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My MCA the Vicious Conniver is intended to be the Mr. Hyde to the Dr. Jekyll of the Astute Physician, so much so I would have it that if the latter 'falls' they become the former.
well it seems the concept has been done :P. I will have a look and see what else i can come up with :). thanks for being so welcoming
I return. Sorry I vanished for awhile folks.
#Botanist
Tyr, dear, you certainly haven't lost your touch in my absence...
Also, I still have my Muse-Thrall Oracle concept, as well as having dug up my old "Kishin Warlord" Samurai/Antipaladin concept, and my "Spellblight Templar" Antipaladin/Magus concept. And have recently come up with a concept for an Antipaladin/Brawler.
I like Antipaladins.
Those ideas look good to me, Taco Man! and an antipaladin/brawler seems particularly interesting too.
I'm thinking of a Brawler too, perhaps Brawler/Hunter, and combining Martial Flexibility and Animal Aspect into a sort of 'Style Aspect', using Combat Style Feats as a core concept. They will be able to swap in and out of combat style with ease, sorta like a Jackie Chan/Lei Wulong animal style martial artist.
Well, for the full Jackie-Chan, we'd also need to steal some stuff from the monk of the open hand. :P
As for the main concept of my Abyssal Brute, I was figuring rather than Cruelties and Touch of Corruption, they would gain unarmed strike, and flurry of blows, with a special gimmick.
The main gimmick to counterpoint cruelties being a scaling effect/style system, combining both cruelties and the new Style Strike system of the Unchained Monk. While I don't like the unchained monk that much, it does contain alot of good ideas. Formost, the Style Strike.
Rather than directly taking all the style strikes, I've been working in various more Profane-Themed effects, centered around direct damage/incapacitation, in line with the cruelties (with inspiration from the more brutal aspects of various style feats), rather than more exotic methods of Combat Maneuvering.
Pardon rambling grammar. I write this somewhat sleepless.
Note to self, stop by soon with some remakes of some of my monk mcas with an unchained slant.Actually, there has been quite the 'broken base' when it comes to the Unchained Monk... especially over the loss of a good Will save. Many on here feel the new UM improves very little and is worse where it is most important. That, and many core UM abilities have been turned to Ki Powers without an increase in Ki Pool while also being incomparable with any Monk archetypes. Simply put... I feel it may well be best just to leave your MCAs be without messing with Unchained Monk.
eh, I had issues until I played it thoroughly, and found that while it made many bad options worse, I wasnt taking those options anyways. I still plan to update my mcas when I have time.
I find the unchained monk rather underwhelming. My main problem with it is that it shuts down most pre-existing Archetypes, and is for the most part, a side-grade at best. Contrast Barbarians and Rogues who merely got utility expansions that don't shut down any pre-existing 1st-party archetypes.
A grenadier would be cool. or a like a super-soldier. Something like a cross between a Gunslinger and Alchemist. Using the bombs from the Alchemist class and the guntraining and combat focused skills of the gunslinger.
So Something like a slayer archetype that gains guntraining at like 6th level and 12th level. Gains a grit pool using his Int.
Uses talents to augment the bombs, and the bomb damage for sneak attack damage.
I find the unchained monk rather underwhelming. My main problem with it is that it shuts down most pre-existing Archetypes, and is for the most part, a side-grade at best. Contrast Barbarians and Rogues who merely got utility expansions that don't shut down any pre-existing 1st-party archetypes.
everyman gaming did a decent job converting the archetypes.
A grenadier would be cool. or a like a super-soldier. Something like a cross between a Gunslinger and Alchemist. Using the bombs from the Alchemist class and the guntraining and combat focused skills of the gunslinger.
So Something like a slayer archetype that gains guntraining at like 6th level and 12th level. Gains a grit pool using his Int.
Uses talents to augment the bombs, and the bomb damage for sneak attack damage.
This should be what you're looking for I think
Catalyst Grenadier
Iron Bombardier
There's no slayer/gunslinger or slayer/alchemist just yet, so that idea is up for grabs.
What's the current stance on Unchained Classes? are we considering them the new base class? a separate thing entirely? or are we just bundling them together with the 'chained' version in the master lists?
Not played them just yet, need to read up on the new material, but if it makes monks easier to work with, balances summoner's major issues, and makes rogues and barbarians more competitive (and more things to play with), I'm up for it.
Well, the thing about our Rogue primaries and secondaries is nothing from the base rogue was negatively impacted, the secondaries may warrant a buff, but the primaries are all un-contradicted.
Hot thread. Hot thread.
I've got some light builds if anyone cares to help me look them over...
@Taco Man
Go ahead an post up! I could use a distraction from my own work for a bit :)
@Elghinn - sent you an email...