I've been hooked on the Brawler class lately, and was working up a Strangler as sort of a stealth killer and thought: This guy needs Silence is Golden from the Daring Infiltrator Swashbuckler deeds!
Since grapple takes at least 2 rnds before you can start to Strangle, he'd need to be able to keep his victim from calling out for help. But there doesn't seem to be any mechanic (Feat or class ability) that bestows that.
Is there a way to get that deed without taking 3 levels of Swashbuckler?
Silence Is Golden (Ex): At 3rd level, when a daring infiltrator with at least 1 panache point succeeds at a trip or grapple combat maneuver check, the target is rendered mute for 1 round. For every 5 by which the result of the combat maneuver check exceeds the opponent's CMD, the target remains mute for an additional round. A mute creature cannot speak, use language-dependent effects or verbal components, or use command words. This deed replaces menacing swordplay.
I suppose not since it replaces a class ability for the Swashbuckler. But - man! - that would be sweet!
So, if not Silence is Golden, are there other Feats that can help do the same thing?
Jawbreaker requires Stunning Fist, which the Brawler doesn't have. I can take it, but it takes a Wis 13 and a BaB +8. And Jawbreaker doesn't really silence the foe, it simply makes it difficult for them to speak clearly and they can't use spells with a Verbal component.
Or is there a way to get the Strangle hold on the first attack? (Sleeper Hold requires a successful attack against a pinned opponent. And I don't see any way to get that on a first attack.)
Are you willing to pick up proficiency in the Lasso? Strangler seems like what you want.
Are you willing to pick up proficiency in the Lasso? Strangler seems like what you want.
I wasn't familiar with that Feat. We're using Hero Lab, and that doesn't come up.
I don't see why it couldn't be adapted for use by the Strangler archetype. (Not as a given, but an optional Feat choice.)
There is already a "Strangler" combat feat which allows you to inflict your SA damage as a swift action, so it would need to be named something else.
Hopefully, someone at Paizo will recognize the usefulness of a feat or feature like this for the Brawler and create an official one!
Choke hold feat keeps them from speaking but you still have a delay. Surprise round you establish a grapple and then make sure you go first in initiative and you good.
Thanks! I certainly qualify for that feat! It's all the timing issue. But IF I attack from surprise, then - yeah - I should be able to implement the Choke.
The character is very much a Stealth-/Dex-based Strangler, so getting a surprise grapple in is certainly do-able.
Starting to think a 1 level dip into Maneuver Master monk to get Flurry of Maneuvers might be worth it. That would allow me a full-round action to attempt 2 grapple maneuvers in a single round.
If you can delay a round, the best think to go for might be Kraken Style and Kraken Throttle.
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Where magic and martial prowess fail, alchemy succeeds(partially).
Use Silence Dust to alleviate some of the screaming of your victim if need be.
If you can delay a round, the best thing to go for might be Kraken Style and Kraken Throttle.
Cool! Thanks! These are new. They don't address the "crying out for help" issue on that first attack.
Chokehold comes in at +6 BaB, and imposes a -5 on the grapple CMB, and spells out the consequences: "cannot breathe or speak."
Kraken Throttle comes on at +5 BaB (a level sooner), requires Kraken Style (+3 BaB and WIS 13), has no grapple penalty, but does not specify that the victim cannot speak, only: "This suffocates your opponent." Unfortunately, suffocation (CRB pg 445) doesn't specify that a suffocating creature can't speak. Logical that they couldn't but that depends on the GM.
Where magic and martial prowess fail, alchemy succeeds(partially).
Use Silence Dust to alleviate some of the screaming of your victim if need be.
Yeah - resorting to something magical/alchemical is an alternative. I'd love to be able to rely on class features, though.
Chokehold plus Greater Grapple can give you a pinned, mute opponent in one round. You’ll want your opponent pinned as well as mute, since anyone not totally dim could smash their steel weapon against a stone wall to make as much commotion as yelling for help would.
A full BAB class can have that combo by level 6, with retraining or martial flexibility or whatever. A Monk would need to be level 8 to get Greater Grapple. (Corrected, thanks Irnk!)
A full BAB class can have that combo by level 6, with retraining. A Brawler would need to be level 8 to get Greater Grapple.
Brawler is a full BAB class...
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I found a new solution for you:
Bushwhack
I found a new solution for you:
Bushwhack
That's it!! Thank you!
Now I need to see if it is in Hero Lab so I can add it to my Strangler.
Contributor
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I found a new solution for you:
BushwhackThat's it!! Thank you!
Now I need to see if it is in Hero Lab so I can add it to my Strangler.
It is, if you have the right package. :)