I just got into an argument with someone who is making the claim that he can as a Paladin; just target people with Smite Evil; and immediately know if they are evil, getting around nondetection effects and the like, because he in-character "Knows His AC Went Up."
Does this actually work?
No.
if you are the GM tell him no. And if not just laugh at him and let the GM decide how he will handle it. But there is nothing in the rules about that kind of knowledge.
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Online discussion.
And that was my response.
But then a bunch of people started agreeing with him, that characters have an innate knowledge of their own stats (which I think is ridiculous).
And since there were several people agreeing with him; I thought I would see what people thought over in another location.
Online discussion.
And that was my response.
But then a bunch of people started agreeing with him, that characters have an innate knowledge of their own stats (which I think is ridiculous).
And since there were several people agreeing with him; I thought I would see what people thought over in another location.
Well you know what they say about online discussions? :)
No, especially since the bonus only applies to the target of the Smite.
Characters do not "know" what their stats are. Though they may have an idea that they are strong or charismatic or hard to hit because they can dodge well. They don't know the numbers, and with something like deflection are unlikely to know it unless they see something glancing off of it.
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Hehe if one could feel ones own stat i think most of us would be sad how low they are:)
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No, especially since the bonus only applies to the target of the Smite.
Characters do not "know" what their stats are. Though they may have an idea that they are strong or charismatic or hard to hit because they can dodge well. They don't know the numbers, and with something like deflection are unlikely to know it unless they see something glancing off of it.
Pretty much what I said. "You know you're good at archery because you an hit moving targets are far distances; not because you know how big your bonuses are."
Well, I think it would be a multi-step process really. If the Paladin had a deflection bonus beforehand then the following won't work but...
From the looks of things, said paladin could have someone detect magic on them to see if they are radiating any new magical auras than before the smite evil went off. Other than that, they could ask the target of the smite to attack them to notice if the weapon seems to veer off for no apparent reason :3
Other than that, I don't think the Paladin's player is in luck.
EDIT: I would agree with the statement that some things, a character could simple FEEL such as gaining natural armor, and I also agree with the sentiment that a character would have a rough idea as to how strong, dextrous, intelligent, etc. they are but certainly would not be able to put numbers to it...
Then again, there are certain things that just don't make sense if characters don't know the numbers behind it. How does a character know what the difference between a +1 and a +2 weapon is? How do you describe that in character? What about a cloak of resistance +1 or +2? A character would have to know one is better than the other somehow.
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Absolutely no.
How does a character know he's wearing +1 full plate without identifying it first?
How does a character who randomly puts on a magic ring know the difference between a +1 ring of protection and a ring of fire resistance?
How does a character who didn't notice it being cast know that he's under the effects of protection from evil?
That argument is basically "well, I know it, so my character knows it" which is metagaming of the worst sort. Made even worse by the utterly circular logic "it affects my character, so I have to know what it is, so my character knows what it is".
No way.
Well, I think it would be a multi-step process really. If the Paladin had a deflection bonus beforehand then the following won't work but...
** spoiler omitted **
From the looks of things, said paladin could have someone detect magic on them to see if they are radiating any new magical auras than before the smite evil went off. Other than that, they could ask the target of the smite to attack them to notice if the weapon seems to veer off for no apparent reason :3
Other than that, I don't think the Paladin's player is in luck.
EDIT: I would agree with the statement that some things, a character could simple FEEL such as gaining natural armor, and I also agree with the sentiment that a character would have a rough idea as to how strong, dextrous, intelligent, etc. they are but certainly would not be able to put numbers to it...
Then again, there are certain things that just don't make sense if characters don't know the numbers behind it. How does a character know what the difference between a +1 and a +2 weapon is? How do you describe that in character? What about a cloak of resistance +1 or +2? A character would have to know one is better than the other somehow.
Maybe or maybe not.
Supernatural abilities (which Smite is) are not specifically noted as possessing magical auras and detect magic does not specifically include them. We don't know how it would interact with detect magic at all.
Beyond that, it would take at least 3 rounds to actually know as you would need to individual identify the effect that generated it.
Round 1 only tells you magic is in the cone or not.
Round 2 gives you the number of auras and tells you how powerful the most powerful aura is.
Round 3 allows you to identify auras the strength and location of each aura. Even then you have to make a check to identify the school of magic of each aura.
Because Smite is supernatural and does not have a school associated with it, I am inclined to believe it would not be possible to use detect magic to detect it.
I forgot that (Su) abilities didn't have auras. It always struck me as odd especially seeing as they shut off in an antimagic field.
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I would agree with the statement that some things, a character could simple FEEL such as gaining natural armor, and I also agree with the sentiment that a character would have a rough idea as to how strong, dextrous, intelligent, etc. they are but certainly would not be able to put numbers to it...
While they were arguing they knew what the numbers were; that was not the point.
They were just looking to immediately know, with absolute certainty if someone was actually evil, at a glance; because Detect Evil isn't 100% reliable (a response to someone pointing out that if they are spamming Detect Evil at everyone in a crowd, and butchering anyone who pings evil, not only are they likely to face legal consequences; but there is a non-0 chance of them killing someone who isn't actually evil, their Paladin would be aware of that; and thus could easily fall whilst crowd-smiting).
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As far as "knowing his AC went up", or any other similar thing like attack bonus, I'd say no. But in my game the paladin of Sarenrae knows if his smite actually took effect because he "feels the divine fire flow through him in answer to his prayers". It may be a step beyond RAW, but it makes sense to me.
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Smite Evil doesn't care about abilities that mask alignment; it only cares about actual alignment. If a paladin uses smite evil on an evil creature who was using nondetection, undetectable alignment, or some other ability that obscures a character's alignment the smite evil will still work.
The danger of course is that if you use smite evil on something that isn't evil you've wasted the attempt.
As far as using smite evil as a means of detecting if something is evil, that's not really explicitly defined in the rules. I think it's presumed that a paladin somehow is aware of when her smite is working, but question becomes how does she gain that awareness? Does she need to actually attack the target to see if she gain the hit & damage bonuses? Or something else?
Personally I'd rule in favor of the player Darkholme is arguing with. Not because the paladin could "feel his AC increasing", but because the way I handle smite evil thematically is that as soon as the paladin activates smite she can feel the divine energies coursing through her. If she activates smite and doesn't feel it, that's the indicator that the smite failed and the attempt is wasted.
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There is no RAW about the circumstances in which a character can and cannot tell that their abilities are working, at least no default rules (some might spell it out explicitly).
As a general rule, I tend to go with the idea that anything where you pick out targets lets you know pass/fail/SR/<no reaction>. Pass means they made their save. Fail means they failed their save and are affected. SR means the spell fizzled against their SR. No reaction means that something about your chosen target makes it invalid and the spell fails due to that. Immunities can register as a pass or a no-reaction depending on the source of the immunity. (EDIT: I typically exclude indirect attacks and ranged attacks from this paradigm. Indirect includes anything where the prime defense is a reflex save, though those are rarely targeted.)
But for an AoE spell where you don't pick targets? No information other than what your own two eyes give you.
Because a Paladin's Smite Evil is a targeted effect, I would rule that they can get "Pass" and "No Reaction" as possible feelings of success. This effectively lets them know if the creature is evil, but they're a Paladin FFS. That's their thing.
If you want something that hides from a Paladin, give them a custom thing that makes Smite Evil not work on them. Now the Paladin (mistakenly) believes them to be non-evil. I'm pretty sure there's already an item for this, but I can't recall where.
TL;DR - No RAW that I'm aware of says yes or no. But I'd go with yes, Smite Evil lets you know if it worked before attacking or being attacked. But it ain't because you feel the deflection specifically, it's the feeling of divine power flowing through you which doesn't happen if you smite non-evil.
What's the big deal here?
He gets only a few per day. If he wants to use them in an out of combat context, why not let him?
So he knows the guy is evil. Yippee? What's he going to do about it if the guys isn't directly hostile. "He's evil" is not an excuse to out and out murder them regardless, so he's determined they're evil...and that still leaves him with no proof.
My answer as DM would have been something to the effect of:
"Your god, angered by your cavalier and lazy use of your divine as a crutch to avoid honest work, has revoked your paladin-hood. To regain your abilities you must atone for your sins by way of an Atonement spell and accompanying quest."
In all seriousness, Smite Evil is not an ability used like detect evil. It is used in battle to kill evil doers. I don't even let my paladins know if their ability worked until they actively attack the creature. My PCs fought a pack of chaos beasts that swarmed and slaughtered a caravan last night. He didn't know until he declared his smite and then laid into them. When asked if it worked I said "Nope, they're just Chaotic hungry."
I'd let the paladin figure it out AFTER they swung at him...
but whats the point? He's got detect evil at will
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My answer as DM would have been something to the effect of:
"Your god, angered by your cavalier and lazy use of your divine as a crutch to avoid honest work, has revoked your paladin-hood. To regain your abilities you must atone for your sins by way of an Atonement spell and accompanying quest."
In all seriousness, Smite Evil is not an ability used like detect evil. It is used in battle to kill evil doers. I don't even let my paladins know if their ability worked until they actively attack the creature. My PCs fought a pack of chaos beasts that swarmed and slaughtered a caravan last night. He didn't know until he declared his smite and then laid into them. When asked if it worked I said "Nope, they're just Chaotic hungry."
This is what is known as a cop out. He may be using the ability somewhat casually, but he *is* using it towards the goal of fighting evil, albeit in an unusual fashion. Many good gods would actually encourage such usage as they prefer more subtle methods than stabbing everything in the face. He may have Detect Evil at will, but Smite Evil is a bit more accurate and sometimes you need the accuracy. (Detect evil doesn't even work on < 5HD, in most cases!)
I cannot express enough how much I hate the "Atonement" spell. Pay X gp and now you've made up for your crime? Violating your code as a paladin isn't a f#$$king parking ticket. (Yes, it has additional stipulations, but it still amounts to a fine.)
As a general rule, try to say "yes" to players. Get creative if you have to. If you're finding excuses to say no when something has not been an actual problem (and I don't count breaking your plot as a problem) then you're approaching things from the wrong angle IMO.
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I'd let the paladin figure it out AFTER they swung at him...
but whats the point? He's got detect evil at will
He's a smite-happy murder-hobo who wants a way to ensure he can continue to be a smite-happy murder-hobo without risking falling because he smites someone who detects as evil but isn't, such as by misdirection and nondetection and infernal healing etc - even though he's unwilling to take the time to investigate before butchering random passers-by on the street.
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He's a smite-happy murder-hobo who wants a way to ensure he can continue to be a smite-happy murder-hobo without being thrown off by misdirection and nondetection and infernal healing etc.I'd let the paladin figure it out AFTER they swung at him...
but whats the point? He's got detect evil at will
Is he ruining anyone else's fun with it? If not, then let him. He obvious enjoys it if he's doing it so much, and like a good Paladin he's trying to ensure he is only attacking that which is actually evil.
If he *is* ruining the fun of others, solve it outside of game, not inside it. Talk to the player, explain to them why it's a problem and ask if there is anything else they can do to enjoy the game besides murdering everything. If they can't think of anything, then simply come up with various things to try. I had a guy in my group who hated roleplay stuff suddenly 180 when it finally clicked for him. (It may require allowing some murder-hoboing in the meantime.)
EDIT: If an in-game excuse is needed, create it as an in-game representation of the out-of-game conversation, not as a way to rain on the player's parade for not listening.
He's a smite-happy murder-hobo who wants a way to ensure he can continue to be a smite-happy murder-hobo without risking falling because he smites someone who detects as evil but isn't, such as by misdirection and nondetection and infernal healing etc - even though he's unwilling to take the time to investigate before butchering random passers-by on the street.I'd let the paladin figure it out AFTER they swung at him...
but whats the point? He's got detect evil at will
And "butchering random passers-by" is an evil act. He falls.
The situation has sorted itself.
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I dunno if he's ruining anyone in his group's fun. He's not in my group. Internet argument, as mentioned upthread. His murderhoboing was the premise he started the argument with; claiming that was the "Right" way to play a Paladin, etc etc.
Were it in my personal group this scenario would never even come up, as I only run games without quantifiable alignment.
And "butchering random passers-by" is an evil act. He falls.
The situation has sorted itself.
Is that still technically evil if they are evil creatures?
He's using detect evil on everyone before he goes all SAW on them.
The fact that he's now wanted for serial murder and his "feelings" that the guy is shifty are irrelevant to the court system in a LN country is besides the point.
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If all you're looking for is a pure RAW answer, then sadly the answer isn't there. Your internet argument cannot end in anything but a draw. The book never supplies general rules for if/when/how a character can discern their current capabilities.
If you want RAI, even that is sketchy. IMO is works, but not for the reasons listed in the OP.
That said, if you accept the premise that it works, then that *would* be a test a Paladin might be expected to perform before killing someone whom they have not personally witnessed committing evil.
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He's a smite-happy murder-hobo who wants a way to ensure he can continue to be a smite-happy murder-hobo without risking falling because he smites someone who detects as evil but isn't, such as by misdirection and nondetection and infernal healing etc - even though he's unwilling to take the time to investigate before butchering random passers-by on the street.I'd let the paladin figure it out AFTER they swung at him...
but whats the point? He's got detect evil at will
And "butchering random passers-by" is an evil act. He falls.
The situation has sorted itself.
* What constitutes an evil act varies from person to person. Please consult with your doctor before playing a Paladin. Side effects include arrogance, interrupted game time, lack of cheetos, excess of cheetos, playing an exaggerated NPC class, the color purple, loss of friends, and death.
And "butchering random passers-by" is an evil act. He falls.
The situation has sorted itself.
Is that still technically evil if they are evil creatures?
He's using detect evil on everyone before he goes all SAW on them.
The fact that he's now wanted for serial murder and his "feelings" that the guy is shifty are irrelevant to the court system in a LN country is besides the point.
Murder is murder, regardless of the target. Dexter was not Lawful Good.
If you find your Paladin shares traits and justifications with a serial killer, he is no longer a Paladin.
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And "butchering random passers-by" is an evil act. He falls.
The situation has sorted itself.
Is that still technically evil if they are evil creatures?
He's using detect evil on everyone before he goes all SAW on them.
The fact that he's now wanted for serial murder and his "feelings" that the guy is shifty are irrelevant to the court system in a LN country is besides the point.
Murder is murder, regardless of the target. Dexter was not Lawful Good.
If you find your Paladin shares traits and justifications with a serial killer, he is no longer a Paladin.
You are applying modern first-world expectations to an unstable, approximately-medieval fantasy world where evil is quantifiable. I would advise caution in making such blanket statements when, even in the real world, the difference between justified revolutionary and terrorist can be nothing more than which channel you watch.
EDIT: In fact, if we could leave any discussion about what is and is not evil to another thread entirely, that'd be great. This thread is not about that. It's about whether you can use Smite to tell if someone is evil.
You are applying modern first-world expectations to an unstable, approximately-medieval fantasy world where evil is quantifiable. I would advise caution in making such blanket statements when, even in the real world, the difference between justified revolutionary and terrorist can be nothing more than which channel you watch.
And "butchering random passers-by" is an evil act. He falls.
The situation has sorted itself.
Is that still technically evil if they are evil creatures?
He's using detect evil on everyone before he goes all SAW on them.
The fact that he's now wanted for serial murder and his "feelings" that the guy is shifty are irrelevant to the court system in a LN country is besides the point.
Murder is murder, regardless of the target. Dexter was not Lawful Good.
If you find your Paladin shares traits and justifications with a serial killer, he is no longer a Paladin.
Even in a medieval society there were formalities you needed to adhere to before slaughtering someone "because they're evil". Even witches got a mock trial.
Whipping out your weapon and stabbing a motherf$+%er because you think he should die has never been acceptable.
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You are applying modern first-world expectations to an unstable, approximately-medieval fantasy world where evil is quantifiable. I would advise caution in making such blanket statements when, even in the real world, the difference between justified revolutionary and terrorist can be nothing more than which channel you watch.
And "butchering random passers-by" is an evil act. He falls.
The situation has sorted itself.
Is that still technically evil if they are evil creatures?
He's using detect evil on everyone before he goes all SAW on them.
The fact that he's now wanted for serial murder and his "feelings" that the guy is shifty are irrelevant to the court system in a LN country is besides the point.
Murder is murder, regardless of the target. Dexter was not Lawful Good.
If you find your Paladin shares traits and justifications with a serial killer, he is no longer a Paladin.
Even in a medieval society there were formalities you needed to adhere to before slaughtering someone "because they're evil". Even witches got a mock trial.
Whipping out your weapon and stabbing a m$+!#!#%!+~@ because you think he should die has never been acceptable.
Really? And what if that "m$+!#!#%!+~@" is literally satan? What if you can peer into their mind and see their past deeds? What if there is no government that can hold a fair trial for this individual? What if there is no government?
Those sensibilities work in this world only because we cannot quantify or measure evil in any direct way. A Paladin can. Will a Paladin face social consequences for such actions? Almost certainly. But whether the act is evil or not is a separate question which is not entirely suitable for this thread.
You can have a paladin hanged for his murder-hobo actions. But that doesn't mean the actions were automatically evil.
Given none of those things are true, the point is moot.
One can be evil in morality without being deserving of death. Both in this game and in life. "Random passerby" might be the evil, corrupt lawyer, or the white collar criminal, or people of that nature. Slaughtering everyone with an evil alignment out of hand is evil by any metric.
This is pretty clear cut. It's even in the Alignment section, plain as day.
"Mortals with an evil alignment, however, are different from these beings. In fact, having an evil alignment alone does not make one a super-villain or even require one to be thwarted or killed."
First off: no, you can't "feel" a deflection bonus. You can observe it when it's happening, as enemy attacks suffer from odd redirections and/or resistance; but you can't passively feel it just because you have it.
On the other hand:
A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.
While this applies to saving throws, it may be possible to generalise, but there are two questions for that under normal situations:
-Does a target (valid or not) know that magic was used?
-Does the paladin know the outcome based on pass/fail?
Not sure what RAW is on it, but I'd say yes in all cases. The target would get the tingle either way, and the paladin would know the outcome.
Now, keeping in mind that this particular ability is normally used during or as a precursor to hostilities... what do you think?
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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I've ruled in the past that you don't get any knowledge just in the smiting--you actually have to attack or be attacked to know if you get the bonuses.
This lead to a particularly funny instance in which a player tried to smite a tendriculos, and got grabbed (and shortly afterward swallowed) on a charge because his deflection bonus to AC never manifested.
The funny part was, as he was declaring his intention to smite, the other players at the table advised him against it, pointing out quite rightly that plants are often neutral. He responded "Oh, no, these things are totally evil, I remember from [someone else's] game," seemingly completely oblivious to his bald-faced metagaming.
Fair enough for the paladin. Does the target get knowledge of something trying to affect it?
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Man. I'm gonna go back to reading that Roleplaying a Memorable Paladin thread to make myself less depressed after reading this thread.
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If the Paladin can "feel" his deflection bonus, then the enemy can sense its' smitedness. If you want to play like that, then any evil-aligned enemy with an ounce of sense knows that when it gets that sort of shiver that a Paladin has smote it, and as soon as the paladin enters their field of view, they know they are the smiter. Suddenly they don't seem so keen on tangling with or attacking the paladin at all. Why would anyone fight a guy who's likely at a significant advantage against you unless they absolutely have to?
Rynjin has a point, yet this whole situation reminds me of another "ride the edge" paladin I've seen played. The paladin in question would go up to random townspeople to detect evil. If anyone pinged, the paladin would challenge said evil person to combat. If they were unarmed, the paladin would provide the weapon. (So not only out to destroy evil, also sticks to some sort of code that prevents outright murder).
This gave several roleplay outs. Said evil person could refuse the challenge, and the paladin would simply keep an eye on the evil person. Other townspeople had divided opinions of the paladin, since those he killed may not be lawbreakers, they were the misers and misery bringers to a town. The campaign didn't last long enough to gain traction on any consequences for the actions. Doing such a thing should always have consequences, even if it's just having a bunch of neutral townspeople trying to talk the paladin out of killing their fellow townspeople. Not everything escalates to violence right away.
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There is no RAW about the circumstances in which a character can and cannot tell that their abilities are working, at least no default rules (some might spell it out explicitly).
As a general rule, I tend to go with the idea that anything where you pick out targets lets you know pass/fail/SR/<no reaction>. Pass means they made their save. Fail means they failed their save and are affected. SR means the spell fizzled against their SR. No reaction means that something about your chosen target makes it invalid and the spell fails due to that. Immunities can register as a pass or a no-reaction depending on the source of the immunity. (EDIT: I typically exclude indirect attacks and ranged attacks from this paradigm. Indirect includes anything where the prime defense is a reflex save, though those are rarely targeted.)
But for an AoE spell where you don't pick targets? No information other than what your own two eyes give you.
Because a Paladin's Smite Evil is a targeted effect, I would rule that they can get "Pass" and "No Reaction" as possible feelings of success. This effectively lets them know if the creature is evil, but they're a Paladin FFS. That's their thing.
If you want something that hides from a Paladin, give them a custom thing that makes Smite Evil not work on them. Now the Paladin (mistakenly) believes them to be non-evil. I'm pretty sure there's already an item for this, but I can't recall where.
TL;DR - No RAW that I'm aware of says yes or no. But I'd go with yes, Smite Evil lets you know if it worked before attacking or being attacked. But it ain't because you feel the deflection specifically, it's the feeling of divine power flowing through you which doesn't happen if you smite non-evil.
There is a RAW rule for targeted spells:
Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.
Generally I apply it to most targeted effect. You know if it worked or not, with no explanation why it failed, it could be unapplicable targed, succesful ST, SR or whatever.
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I dunno if he's ruining anyone in his group's fun. He's not in my group. Internet argument, as mentioned upthread. His murderhoboing was the premise he started the argument with; claiming that was the "Right" way to play a Paladin, etc etc.
Were it in my personal group this scenario would never even come up, as I only run games without quantifiable alignment.
And "butchering random passers-by" is an evil act. He falls.
The situation has sorted itself.
Is that still technically evil if they are evil creatures?
He's using detect evil on everyone before he goes all SAW on them.
The fact that he's now wanted for serial murder and his "feelings" that the guy is shifty are irrelevant to the court system in a LN country is besides the point.
The chaotic good 5th level merchant that want and is thinking to torture and murder the guy that raped his daughter read as Evil. But he is still CG. Detect Evil isn't foolprof.
Huh, interesting. Hadn't considered this before. In this case, I would side on "no" because the Paladin hasn't provided anything to let it fly under Rule of Cool. That said, if somebody wanted to set up a (voluntary) pure-of-heart test using smite or something, that'd be cool. (It'd probably be, say, an unarmed strike.) Definitely some cool roleplay elements there for the Paladin acknowledging that their own insight is limited, but that their deity sees through any trickery.
For a strict rules answer, I would say that it falls outside the scope of character knowledge. I would also ask how his character knows that Smite is somehow more thorough than Detect.
What's the big deal here?
He gets only a few per day. If he wants to use them in an out of combat context, why not let him?
So he knows the guy is evil. Yippee? What's he going to do about it if the guys isn't directly hostile. "He's evil" is not an excuse to out and out murder them regardless, so he's determined they're evil...and that still leaves him with no proof.
The ony real issue with it is if you have a guy who's really dedicated to trying smite out on all your recurring NPCs to try and figure out if any of them are secretly evil. It bypasses normal DM plot obfuscation methods such as rings of mind shielding, etc., and that kind of thing can sometimes derail things pretty badly.
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the only way to use it to detect evil is to see if your punch murders them or just maims them.
Smite also gives you an AC bonus against that target if they are evil.
The claim that started this discussion was someone saying their character would be immediately aware if they got an AC boost against the person.And it would appear there's some precedent for that, based on a rule for spells; though there's no mention of it carrying over to class features, I can see how someone might generalize.
If this target is evil, the paladin adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.
In addition, while smite evil is in effect, the paladin gains a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her AC against attacks made by the target of the smite. If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect.
The way that our group rules this is that you can smite any creature. Just if the creature isn't evil it has no effect. The only person that should truly know a character's AC is the DM. Before you begin the game, have all the characters do the following on a sheet of paper that has all of their AC's, and saves. You should roll things like their fortitude saves vs. disease and poison and force them to use things like heal checks. Make it more of a challenge, it gives a more realistic approach. This also allows you to tell the person that they missed and they won't know by how much. Let the player's know, that you are doing this to make it so out of character knowledge isn't applied. I had a character once smite a mountain in the abyss. Indeed it didn't have an effect, he was still still surprised when I said "You succeeded"
the only way to use it to detect evil is to see if your punch murders them or just maims them.Smite also gives you an AC bonus against that target if they are evil.
The claim that started this discussion was someone saying their character would be immediately aware if they got an AC boost against the person.And it would appear there's some precedent for that, based on a rule for spells; though there's no mention of it carrying over to class features, I can see how someone might generalize.
This is how I see it:
1) Paladin detects evil and spots a candidate.2) Paladin uses a swift action to invoke the smite, and designate the target. One smite use is consumed.
3) Paladin now knows the target is evil because he can feel the answer to his call.
or
3) Paladin now knows the target is not evil because his call is not answered, and the smite use is wasted.
The consequence for wasting smites is running out of smites when you really need them. Religiously, I would consider the paladin foolish, not anything worse. No divine punishment, and foolish wasting is its own punishment.
If he is wasting smites on random crowd people, he is using up precious resources on wimpy targets, and likely also making himself noticed by Those in Charge.
/cevah
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It's fine let him blow his smite evil attempts without confirming or knowing for a fact that someone is good or evil. That's the quickest way to the road of the Lawful Dick and if the other characters know that how he is...he makes a perfect distraction since his code of honor or whatever bullshit, he tries to pretend to be doing will often put him in trouble, the other characters can take advantage of this and go do their own things. See how long, he survives by just being a huge dick everywhere.