Goblin Squad Member
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It seems like everyone is putting their stake in the ground, drawing lines, etc for their area. PFU is in a little different position in that we exist at the will of the community. So with that in mind, I want to share our requests and rules to get feedback from the community. I am not going to review the rules of PFU for our students and faculty, (as those are elsewhere and set by us) but want to get the group’s feedback on our requests.
Thod’s point about rules as written and rules as intended are good here but think of these as ‘requests as intended’
- PFU would like to hold 6 towers (as were ceded to us by Aeonian League and EBA)
- PFU would like to claim the territory two hexes from RiverBank as university grounds (i.e. the core six and any hexes that directly connect to a core six hex, even though a few of those are off the map right now). Within the claimed hexes:
- Please NO PVP in the University hexes unless as part of an exercise (i.e. PFU sanctioned class). Also please do not camp outside the hexes or try to trap members to come out of the hex (i.e. don’t set yourself up on a route with the INTENT of getting new players. If new players are outside of the University hexes, or trespassing on your territory, feel free to follow your own rules.)
- Feel free to help with our escalations, but please take a couple students with you. Any loot from the escalation that you don’t need or want, please donate to the University.
- Please leave the resources (nodes) in these hexes for University gathering. If you have to gather in these hexes (for some reason) please donate anything you do not need to the University.
- Please do not place any holdings in these hexes unless you are a member of the University. When a member leaves the University they should take their holding with them (i.e. take your small holding to where you go).
- Husks will most likely be from a student, so no looting husks unless you already have contacted a student or faculty to turn the stuff into.
- Use the University mumble (golarion.mumble.com port 3093) to reach people in the University if you need anything (such as students to go on escalations).
There is one RULE NOT REQUEST: The University hexes may not be used for ‘staging’ a war or otherwise using the land for PVP purposes (i.e. don’t all meet up in PFU hexes to go take out another place).
The intent of the above is to make a semi-safe area for new players to grow. For those with an EVE background (not me) it sounds a bit like Hi-Sec intentionally. I’m not asking for a large area, (and don’t plan on growing beyond this) and the SW tends to be a sleepy area anyway.
What are your thoughts? PFU is a resource for the game as a whole so I would love feedback from the whole. We really don’t have a way to ‘enforce’ these rules on outside groups but I would hope the rest of the server can help by following these requests.
As a side note, we need more teachers. Please PM me or Foxglove if you are interested. It is fun, and you get to plug your company in return.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Lazar you are 100% correct. Although we plan on spending our DI to get guards (as much as we can) our only hope is to have the server as a whole as friends. If one day PFU gets razed to the ground it will be a shame but you are correct, there is not much I can do. Hence why these are requests not rules.
At the same time I am hoping (probably naively) that the server sees the benefits of PFU and will help us make our requests real.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As suggested by LazarX, it really comes down to what you (or as Rynnik pointed out, a friend/ally) can enforce. While PfU might exist to benefit the community, it really comes down to trying to get everyone who might have an interest in what you have to agree that benefit outweighs their desires...and since most settlements seem reluctant to impose or enforce restrictions on their membership, it really is a matter of trying to to get everyone to individually agree.
Personally, I agree to honour your requests, and will assist you in defending it as I am able, until said time as you no longer seem politically neutral, you no longer provide a benefit to the community, what you take exceeds what you have requested here, or I need something that only you hold. I reserve the right to, at that time, reevaluate my position in light of the new situation.
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Goblin Squad Member
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LOL at the "goons are big and scarey and will come kick your butt" talk. CFC SOV is bluesec renter central these days.
As a long term EVE player I would like to point out that the two main EVE new player corps BNI and EVE UNI are among the most successful and active in the game.
At the next step up, alliance level, Brave Collective is also the biggest alliance in the game about 20% larger than Goonswarm according to current Dotlan stats.
Now of course there are no nullsec player coalitions to compete with CFC or N3 or the Russians or whatever but that is beside the point. New players are not flying supers and titans, they can throw out sizable doctrine fleets of subcaps but will never be able to hold SOV even if its handed to them on a platter.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...until said time as you no longer seem politically neutral, you no longer provide a benefit to the community, what you take exceeds what you have requested here, or I need something that only you hold
For the record, I've promised Hoffmann I will undermine and betray him if he ever tries making PFU into a competitive political power. The only ulterior motive we share is that we want the population to grow fast, but we also want to shape their expectations and playstyles so they fit with the current community spirit (and teach them elementary skills so the world won't be swarmed with hordes of clueless generalists).
About that last point though... please ask nicely for a trade before waging war?
I have to express a slight disappointment I will have to leave our grounds to practice being jumped in PvP. Nice work, Boss!
No you don't, actually. Just request a univeristy event called "hunting Rynnik" with some very basic rules, and I'm sure we can help you out.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have to express a slight disappointment I will have to leave our grounds to practice being jumped in PvP. Nice work, Boss!No you don't, actually. Just request a univeristy event called "hunting Rynnik" with some very basic rules, and I'm sure we can help you out.
See, we need musical instruments, because what is a hunt without a proper hunting horn?!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Burning down a place of learning and intellect - I hardly can imagine any act more evil and vile apart of burning a library.
Hoffman - you will have my unquestionable support should you ever be in danger of such an atrocity.
I tried hard to never ally myself with anyone and offer them my unlimited support in case it would be used against the status of the Emerald Lodge.
But in this case it should be known by everyone that I will make an exemption.
We are yours in the moment of need.
Signed
Theodum
Scribbling a secret note
Dear friend Foxglove
Be informed I will help you in your work as well. Just pray it will never come to it.
Signed
T.
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Goblin Squad Member
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IC/RP:
Hoffman looks around... Maybe I'm just paranoid but Foxglove is always sharpening that dagger. It is like she wants to shave with it. And Nactillius is collecting a lot of flammable materials.. Uh oh.
OOC:
I know that PFU exists exactly because players are willing to support us and follow our requests. That is also why they are requests not rules.
I may have err'd by making a connection to EVE. The difference between EVE Uni and PFU is that we are intentionally kicking players out after 90 days so that we do not become a power. Politics and Power are not the reason why PFU exists. IF we ever do become a political power (or power hungry) I will light the match myself on Nactillius's powder keg.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Goblinwerks expects the player base of PFO to come up with their own content, their own stories, as they're not going to be filling the world with quests.
Face the facts... you're playing a walking version of Eve Online. Once a group decides they want what's being held by the University, they're not going to bother to ask.
So I predict that eventually, one of those player-created stories will be the burning of the University to the ground, unless you acquire some very powerful friends.
Especially once the messageboard residents become a tiny minority of the playerbase.
Hopefully the more new players we get, the more of them filter thru the University before transitioning to other settlements, giving those settlements ever-growing connections to the University.
I know I would certainly jump in to aid them, and while I don't speak for other Golgothans, I would hope that many of the others would jump in as well. You don't attack new players in a new player area. That's so weak.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Tabomo, you are right on. Golgotha has been giving great support to PFU (along with Aeonian League, EBA, EL, etc) which is the best part of the game. I'm trying to set up that 2 hexes around RiverBank is the 'new player area' or the like. The escalation day fighting Ogg is a great example where we can all play together in this area and help each other.
Hence why I put these requests up to state our intent and ask for support.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Burning down a place of learning and intellect - I hardly can imagine any act more evil and vile apart of burning a library.
Hoffman - you will have my unquestionable support should you ever be in danger of such an atrocity.
I tried hard to never ally myself with anyone and offer them my unlimited support in case it would be used against the status of the Emerald Lodge.
But in this case it should be known by everyone that I will make an exemption.
We are yours in the moment of need.Signed
Theodum
The Great Library of Alexandria is no more. t was damaged many times before being completely destroyed, ad was usually being sacked by cultures thought to be "civilized". So it will go in PFO. One settlement's loss will be the victors gain.
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PFU policy question here -
Does PFU allow members to use the PFU specific mumble room when they are PvPing outside of RiverBank?
I have no issue with the PvP, but when someone sidles up next to me and I see their name in the PFU room mumble, I continue solo-fighting the escalation. Lesson learned.
If the PFU room is being used to wage PvP, should we just begin to KOS anyone in that room who is outside of the University claimed hexes? Or will you add a "don't PvP while in the PFU mumble room" policy?
I do realize that, due to the open nature of PFU, not all people using PFU services are members. But people can't go walking around in PFU's letterman jacket engaging in PvP and not have it reflect on the University as a whole. Just a little PR tip for you.
Cheers!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Please pm me with the details and I will look into it. PFU members should not be engaging in PVP unless as part of an exercise or in self defense.
Keep in mind that the University/Golarion mumble is open to all. If it was one of my students I will make sure it is addressed. With students I try to give them one chance to fix it and then they are out if they repeat. (Giving students the benefit of the doubt is key for learning. Once I know they know better and do something wrong then I break out a giant stick.)
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Those are all the details that I'll share.
Snitches, stitches, fishes, and all that.
It was a policy issue question more than anything. I do know the Golarian mumble is open to all. This was in reference to players specifically in the PFU "room" within the Golarion mumble.
I would count the PFU "room" as a PFU asset. As hexes are really only assets, I would suggest considering a change to the wording to "one RULE NOT REQUEST: The University assets may not be used for ‘staging’ a war or otherwise for non-University organized PVP purposes".
Again, I have no issue with the PvP actions themselves. Had the player(s) simply changed rooms before going out to PvP, it would not have reflected on PFU as a whole. Members or not, since we have no way of finding out affiliations, presence within the PFU room (scheduled Fireside chats aside) infers PFU affiliation.
Since this may be used by third parties to besmirch the neutral reputation which PFU is striving for, and that it could endanger your students throughout the realm, I would simply suggest a change of wording and a rebroadcast of your one rule.
I'll not request, nor would I support, any retroactive punitive actions undertaken by PFU, as there was no break with advertised policy. I would suggest, as a matter of policy moving forward, members or non-members abusing the "one rule" have their permissions for the PFU Golarion mumble "room" put on hold (if indeed that is an option) after whatever warnings PFU administration deems fit.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I agree with your change to the one rule as the intent is the same.
The PFU channel and classes is open to all but you are correct that if someone abuses our requests and rules we will have to take action. I hope the community is self policing in this aspect as I feel bad having to play principal (although I'm not afraid to be one). I have NO problem or hesitations keeping our students in line as university membership is a privilege not a right.
Keep sharing any thoughts you have about how to make the university better. The goal is to make it truly crowd forged as that is the only thing that will keep it growing and connected to the mission. I also hope that by crowd forging we will gain the protection of the server from those who want to burn us to the ground as mentioned before.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I was scouting to the west of PFU Riverbank today. I would note that the three tiles that are two tiles out to the SW, SSW, and S of Riverbank are in fact patrolled hexes (public high roads). They are unclaimable thru the holdings mechanics. I think it would be good to leave the resources there for the PFU students. The road access is a nice asset for PFU. But I don't think you have any actual claim or any means to enforce a claim on those hexes, except by aggressively expending counters like Reputation and Influence (thru Feuds).
Edit to add: I wonder if Riverbank should make any claim at all on the three hexes. They'll be limited to T1 resources. Riverbank law will never extend into these hexes. And giving Riverbank a claim on these hexes (which can't be easily enforced) sets the stage for others to claim public high roads.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Very valid points Yrme. I used PFOGIS when I was looking at 'claim' area and then realized afterwards the road was there. In theory once the road actually is patrolled it should just reinforce our requests (mostly the PVP issue).
The key behind all of our requests is that we really don't have a way to enforce the claim as they are requests not claims. RiverBank law is really just an understanding that the server support. I don't think we will actually be able to 'build' anything on the road hexes so it is kind of just an academic discussion at this point.
I just need to have enough guidelines to share with my students what they can and can't do, in addition to sharing with the server the same.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hoffman, I would bet at least for the first couple of years the original core group of players and posters to the forums would defend your call for help should PFU ever become the target of a true attack, creating an actual emergency defense situation. Everyone (I think) applauds your efforts and would come to your aid in short order were that to ever happen.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I say this simply as a suggestion, not as an expectation.
I have found people are more apt to provide support for things they feel invested in. One issue you have is that those with power, no longer need you. Perhaps an option would be to create a "board of directors" consisting of (for instance) 1 representative from the top 5 most populous/active participating settlements (with a caveat that no 2 can be from any one kingdom/alliance) and the "CEO" of PFU. Participating settlements would be those who agree to your requests above and promise to enforce that amongst their residents.
The "Board" would provide some minimal function of oversight and advise, perhaps even just periodic reviews of policy, audits of communal requests, or judicial reviews of conflict with(in) PFU.
Meetings of this board could even be public, offering you periodic opportunities for transparency and RP.
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Perhaps an option would be to create a "board of directors" ... The "Board" would provide some minimal function of oversight and advise, perhaps even just periodic reviews of policy, audits of communal requests, or judicial reviews of conflict with(in) PFU.
There is no need for large settlement tentacles in PFU. That will only turn PFU into another vehicle for fatcat politicking. PFU is a refuge (for up to 90 days) for new players to learn the game without being or feeling beholden to large companies or settlements.
What PFU does is extremely public and transparent and has no need for a board of your description.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Perhaps an option would be to create a "board of directors" ... The "Board" would provide some minimal function of oversight and advise, perhaps even just periodic reviews of policy, audits of communal requests, or judicial reviews of conflict with(in) PFU.
There is no need for large settlement tentacles in PFU. That will only turn PFU into another vehicle for fatcat politicking. PFU is a refuge (for up to 90 days) for new players to learn the game without being or feeling beholden to large companies or settlements.
What PFU does is extremely public and transparent and has no need for a board of your description.
I am sure you are right, I was just trying to think of a way to keep those you want to give you stuff (namely your requests above) interested in supporting your endeavor.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What PFU does is extremely public and transparent and has no need for a board of your description.
Need is always relative to today. If the day comes when a mostly-honourary board with little input into day-to-day activites could have kept PFU from being steamrolled out of existence because of buy-in from other groups, then it might turn out to have needed it.
The people doing the work of PFU will assess their needs on a regular basis. The suggestion of some kind of co-operative over-site entity that addresses other groups' satisfaction with and support of the university is not worthy of being dismissed out-of-hand.
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Goblin Squad Member
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PFU provides graduates. Its primary asset is the dedicated recruiters and instructors.
To one degree, it is going to be in competition with every other organization in the game. In 90 days a new character can earn a very large amount of achievements. Companies and settlements would do well to recruit their own new players. At the least settlements should try to lure people out of PFU after some time shorter than 90 days, like a basketball team recruiting players after 1 year in college.
To another degree, while PFU may invest time and effort into River Bank, the land isn't critical. If some large organization were to grab that that land, the map is dotted with possible settlement locations. Al they need is a patron or group of patrons willing to give up one settlement spot and enough hexes to support the university.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am sure you are right, I was just trying to think of a way to keep those you want to give you stuff (namely your requests above) interested in supporting your endeavor.It may a bit easy to forget exactly what PFU is actually providing that makes it so damn important and worthy of community support. The resource that PFU controls is more valuable than any other in this game. Nothing comes close. It is of course the graduates.
If organizations haven't already tuned into the game and realized that a prime concern needs to always be recruiting, training, and replacing culturally acceptable members of their organizations to compensate for burnout and turn around, they probably don't have a long life expectancy in PFO. Recruiting, equipping, and training contains a huge risk though as certain folks will just decide not to play, others will decide another org betters fulfills their play style etc.
PFU alleviates much of the risk for groups in this game. In 90 days most of us should have got our feet under us and stopped drooling on ourselves (well, maybe not Padric). As at the end of the day what Hoffman and faculty is running is kindergarten much more than university. So when you recruit a grad you can feel much better about the lower risk you are taking because we known the basics, known what we want in game, and know why we want to play in your group particularly.
This sole reason is enough foy ANY forward thinking organization to assist PFU if ever required. Else they will see the majority of prepared and pre-invested players moving off to play with competitors.
From another perspective, recruiting...and training recruits is a great source of ongoing content. I cannot overstate how important I think it will be to the success of a settlement to have ongoing content for all members.
Also hasn't GW already hinted/stated that settlements will get more DI for having less experienced citizens? There will be mechanical incentive for settlements to recruit (which is the purpose I think).
Of course, just because each settlement "owns" its own recruits, does not mean they cannot utilize the PFU instructors/facilities (but then you loose the benefits).
I am just pointing out that it is not as clear cut as you providing a valuable service...you ARE providing a service, some will see it as a good service, but others, even forward looking ones, might see it as digging into their DI or content...if DI is worth fighting for...
I am just trying to think of ideas that might assist in your survival and success.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Also hasn't GW already hinted/stated that settlements will get more DI for having less experienced citizens?
That's actually a benefit for Companies, not Settlements. Companies earn Influence as their Characters earn Achievements. New Players will have a much easier time earning Achievements. Therefore, Companies gain Influence faster when they have lots of new Players in them.
I expect that the devs are struggling with how Influence transfers with a Character when that Character changes Companies specifically because of their desire to support Pathfinder University without negatively impacting their design goals with respect to new Players earning Influence for Companies.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think I agree with all of the discussion here.
There probably is some place for a 'board' or the like, more to come as I need to figure out logistics on that.
I have publicly stated before (and will again) that I would love for all of the settlements to put PFU out of business. Note this is different than razing the place (or other similar posts in here). If all of the settlements are doing great recruitment and training, and there is no need for PFU, then I will gladly close the doors.
I also agree that people should not stay in PFU for 90 days.
Here is what I have seen so far:
Groups that provide support to PFU (teachers and equipment) are quickly winning the hearts and minds of students. My guess is that the 'average' student will move out on or around the time they hit tier 2 (30-45ish days for most). Their decision on where they are going is made in the first 2-3 weeks and then either confirmed or denied.
It goes like this:
- Students are on the PFU mumble taking classes, doing escalations, etc.
- Students get to know those people who teach (either formally through classes or just by helping in help or mumble).
- Based on their experiences with companies they start picking based on their play style (and time zone to some extent).
- Students start hanging out with their intended future home. At this point they get to see the good/bad of the company and either move or go back to the drawing board.
With all of that in mind, our classes probably see 2/3rds PFU students, 1/3rd others. (except the keepside chats which seem to be flipped)
If you want to recruit from PFU, and get the player and DI, then you need to help. We are trying to get a standard rotation of teachers, and have some really dedicated teachers that cover 3-4 days per week. I am planning on keeping 1 day a week for Keepside chats (or the politics chat this week) but otherwise I would love to see the rest go to others (and we can have more than one a day).
PM me or Foxglove to volunteer to teach. We would love it if each settlement would take a day/time slot and keep it filled. In some cases (such as Duffy, Thannon, etc) people are volunteering to cover the slot each week on their own, but it might be better to split things across a settlement.
Yrme is right that the land is not critical, but it provides a safe and relatively neutral space for learning. I get that DI from new players is 'valuable' and plan on spending it on training facilities, guards and farms (in that order). The training facilities will be open to all who abide by the PFU rules (i.e. no PVP in or around RiverBank) and the farms will provide a place for students to 'work' in return for their training and a resource we can trade for the other bulk goods a settlement needs.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hoffman, once Real Life lets up a bit I'll be wandering down to PFU to take a couple of courses myself; my playtime's so very, very limited right now (I'm just too tired most evenings) that what skills I developed in January have rusted right out of my brain. Expect to see a bard in wizard's clothing hanging out sometime next month!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Also hasn't GW already hinted/stated that settlements will get more DI for having less experienced citizens?That's actually a benefit for Companies, not Settlements. Companies earn Influence as their Characters earn Achievements. New Players will have a much easier time earning Achievements. Therefore, Companies gain Influence faster when they have lots of new Players in them.
I expect that the devs are struggling with how Influence transfers with a Character when that Character changes Companies specifically because of their desire to support Pathfinder University without negatively impacting their design goals with respect to new Players earning Influence for Companies.
Thanks for that clarification. And realize, I do not think PFU should give up ANY of its sovereignty unless it is deemed by them to be in their best interests. I just recognized a concern and shared it with a possible solution. It is my hope others will build upon that (or discard it) to offer an even better solution.
What PFU does is extremely public and transparent and has no need for a board of your description.Need is always relative to today. If the day comes when a mostly-honourary board with little input into day-to-day activites could have kept PFU from being steamrolled out of existence because of buy-in from other groups, then it might turn out to have needed it.
The people doing the work of PFU will assess their needs on a regular basis. The suggestion of some kind of co-operative over-site entity that addresses other groups' satisfaction with and support of the university is not worthy of being dismissed out-of-hand.
Not dismissing out-of-hand at all. PFU is a place of learning for new players. Even without "oversight" by big settlements, the big settlements should see its value.
Settlements that think PFU should exist or not at their "satisfaction" are not understanding the separation that must exist for students of the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The key is not value, or over-site, but buy-in. When two things are identical, but you have a designated role in one (i.e., a seat on a board, even if the board does very little) it is a point in favour of continuing to support that entity. Having groups know that they have a role, and a voice, whether anything is done or not, is a valuable incentive for support. It's the reason some of us are still playing PFO.
I'm not talking out of my ass, here. I've been involved in multiple non profit boards in the arts and health-care for more than a decade and having a specified connection invariably improves buy-in for external entities. Even if the entirety of their actual participation is getting an annual report and a thank-you plaque.
And if this were real life I would completely agree with you. It is very reasonable to expect people who donate real money to a non-profit to expect oversight of the kind you describe.
This game is not that and doesn't require big brother's ever vigilant hand. I disagree with and won't entertain the "Goonpocalypse" argument.
If PFU is attacked large-scale then settlements, companies and individuals can evaluate whether or not to save it. Until then please let new gamers learn in the University without the politics of the board you describe.
Leaving discussion.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ah, yes. "I'm just going to ignore what you're saying and restate the same argument (....)"
As a general rule, when people don't understand my argument, it's because they are too stupid to get it. Conversely, if I don't understand their argument, it's because they are too stupid to explain it properly - or just plain wrong.
But enough about me!The best way to get invested in the PFU is of course to teach classes and/or hang around in mumble and answer questions. It sends the message that you are both highly competent and contributor to the community. Case in point: Guurzak's DOT lecture.
Since the PFU mumble now uses [company] tags, whatever impression you make there will reflect on your company and not just on you personally. Even hanging out deafened/muted in the AFK room can help promote the brand.
The other great way to be invested in PFU is simply to recruit graduates. If in a year's time all the major alliances have their share of PFU alumni, then the value should be fairly well proven.
You are welcome to recruit students from day 1. We heavily stress the importance of joining a settlement, but also strongly urge them to take their time and get to know the people before joining one. Incidentally, we have started to see the first students leave PFU and making very informed decisions about where to go.
If the university mumble becomes swarmed with politicking and agressive recruiting, we'll have to deal with it. So far it is completely safe for newbs to enter, which is the way we want it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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And realize, I do not think PFU should give up ANY of its sovereignty unless ...
I think there are two ways of seeing PFU at the moment, which explains some of the discussion around this:
1: as some kind of joint venture (or quasi game feature) that represents the whole community, and that subsequently all settlements should have a share in.
2: as a completely independent self-governed entity, but reliant on broad support to succeed with its mission.
The 2nd one is the correct picture. Less like UN, more like Red Cross.
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Goblin Squad Member
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cover my ears and not listen to you any more so I can have the last word on the subject"
As a general rule, when people don't understand my argument, it's because they are too stupid to get it. Conversely, if I don't understand their argument, it's because they are too stupid to explain it properly - or just plain wrong.
But enough about me!
As a general rule, when people quote the least important part of what I say and use it to make a point that has nothing to do with the point I was making, it bothers me. And I'm all about me.
I've never been offended by people who don't understand me, nor with people who don't agree with me. I'm happy to continue a conversation until we find an agreed position, or agree that our opinions are different and that there's no point discussing it further.
When I exit a conversation* where there's been no agreement, it will generally be something like "I don't think we're on the same page, so I'm exiting the conversation. I won't say "here's my (correct) position, and now I'm going to stop listening to you."
* Which I fully admit isn't often enough.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think...the 2nd one is the correct picture.
Perhaps that is true. Some of us may have taken this crowdforging thread further than anyone at the University is comfortable with, but the conversation invited crowdforging.
If members of the faculty have a position and want to state it, that's reasonable, and I encourage it. For the purposes of this conversation, it isn't "right" or "wrong." The faculty is under no obligation to take any advice that comes out of this conversation and the community is under no obligation to see the university in the light in which it's faculty want it to be seen.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As a general rule, when people quote the least important part of what I say and use it to make a point that has nothing to do with the point I was making, it bothers me.
Cal, sorry if my silly quoting bothered you - absolutely not intended to be a charicature of either side, but rather of the 'typical internet argument', which I worried it was starting to turn into. In light of your response, I think I see how you may have interpreted it. Ouch.
And I think I came late in any case, and that Grip and yourself have agreed to disagree on the issue (except for the RL parallel where you fully agree). Sorry again. No reason to reply to this.
so..
what was the thread topic again?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm not going to presume to suggest rules for PFU, but might I suggest a course?
Role Playing in PFO:
101: Introduction to the River Kingdoms.
102: Introduction to RP in PFO: Knowing the Settlements and Companies that are actively RPing.
103: Creating a Character Concept that fits in
103B: Creating a Character that sets a trend (does not fit, but without breaking)
104: Introduction to the Escalations
105: NPC Factions in PFO
Advanced RP in PFO:
201: How to create RP Events
There is of course a lot of room for adding to this, tweaking it or removing elements.
Discuss...
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Goblin Squad Member
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The faculty is under no obligation to take any advice that comes out of this conversation and the community is under no obligation to see the university in the light in which it's faculty want it to be seen.
very true.
But if the community gives clear feedback, we'd be fools to ignore it!