I have a PFS character built up to level 2 with nothing but GM credit, so I was looking at what I might want to do with this character.
Perusing some of the archetypes, it looked like a couple would fit together nicely, but they're not classes I have a lot of experience in, so I wanted to know what other thought.
The first archetype was the sensei monk which adds his wis to attack rolls at 2nd level (or CMB/CMD checks). Since wis also goes to AC, that's not too shabby.
The next was the imperious bloodline sorcerer. Wis as the casting stat seems pretty awesome.
Since a held charge of a spell can be delivered through an unarmed strike, this has some nice flavor.
Beyond this, I'd look to add Evangelist of Irori as a prestige class when I reach 6th level. I'd be making sorcerer my aligned class.
Anyway, this is all just vague idea at the moment, but I wondered how viable people may think this is. Furthermore, I wanted to clarify rules a bit. Imperious states that it is a human only bloodline. Since half-orc and half-elf both count as human plus the other race "for any effect related to race," does this mean they could take this bloodline, or does it mean human bloodline as in pure human?
Looking forward to the thoughts, ideas, and input. Thanks!
I can only say that half orc and half elf count as human.
Imperious doesn't change the casting stat to wisdom, you need wildblooded empyreal for that.
Good catch! I'd been thinking of completely the wrong bloodline. So, guess that eliminates the human concern altogether.
So, wildblooded empyreal sorcerer, sensei of Irori, and then Evangelist of Irori.
Thoughts?
Suggestions?
Ideas?
Free race boons?
A build I saw for this was using Sohei/empyreal sorc instead. This qualifies it for Eldritch Knight (as sohei gets full martial weapon prof).
Sensei doesn't work as well, because touch and ranged touch attacks are not unarmed strikes/monk weapons, so you wouldn't get your Wis bonus for them (then again, I guess you don't need it that much since touch AC is ridiculously easy to hit).
The unarmed Kensai does this theme pretty well imo, even if it's sub par to other versions of kensai/magus.
Another option for the concept is a Blood Conduit Bloodrager. You have less spells but full bab, and you can swift action cast any touch spell on a successful unarmed strike or maneuver.
Please explain a bit more about what you want this character to do. Usually it's unwise for a full caster (i.e. Sorcerer) to multiclass at all, because that gives up caster levels. But it's fine if you have a plan. Note that, as a split-class sorcerer/monk your BaB will be very low, so it will be really difficult to hit things in melee. As a split class sorcerer/monk your spell casting ability will be quite limited, compared to a single class sorcerer. But you will be able to do some Monk things, and some Sorcerer things. What things in particular will this PC do?
Magda Luckbender wrote: Please explain a bit more about what you want this character to do. Usually it's unwise for a full caster (i.e. Sorcerer) to multiclass at all, because that gives up caster levels. But it's fine if you have a plan. Note that, as a split-class sorcerer/monk your BaB will be very low, so it will be really difficult to hit things in melee. As a split class sorcerer/monk your spell casting ability will be quite limited, compared to a single class sorcerer. But you will be able to do some Monk things, and some Sorcerer things. What things in particular will this PC do? A fine question, to be sure.
I'm looking at making the character a decent melee option (with magus-like qualities given the punch spells) as well as having some ranged casting options as well.
I'm considering changing my 3 chronicle Aasimar to this since this is my last chance to change him. It's the only class (assuming I go Archon-blooded) that gives me a boost to wis and con without losing anything.
The plan definitely involves a strong focus on building to the Evangelist prestige class. I'm looking at 2 levels of sensei, which would give the inspire courage ability at first level (which boosts everyone and helps me with the loss of some BAB) and a bonus feat, then I get the wis to hit and CMB/CMD at 2nd.
I'd then take 3 levels of Empyreal sorcerer to get the spells and such.
At that point, I'd switch into Evangelist and continue with the leveling up as an Evangelist and sorcerer with aligned class. Being an Irori Evangelist helps make the unarmed strike even more viable since he'll hit as one size category larger and as axiomatic, which is not too shabby.
It sets me back a touch on spellcasting, but I like the "battle mage" idea, only as a monk to get around the no armor concept. It's an idea I have always found appealing.
I'd like to know what sort of ability spread options might be most viable(my thought is wis-dex-con-int-cha-str).
What feats make the best sense?
Are there specific traits I should take?
Okay, I threw together a map of how I would build/develop/advance this character. I know some frown on multi-classing, but I think this could be a viable character. Feel free to chime in with thoughts/tweaks/potential issues you might see.
Garuda-blooded Aasimar (see invisibility instead of daylight. +2 dex and wis)
Str: 10 +0
Dex: 18 +4
Con: 12 +1
Int: 8 -1
Wis: 18 +4
Cha: 10 +0
AC: 18
HP: 15
BAB: +1
feat: lingering performance, deflect arrows
traits: magical knack (+2 levels up to HD of spellcasting class), maestro of the society (extra 3 rounds of bardic performance per day)
special abilities: 7 rounds/day of inspire courage (+1 to hit and damage), stunning fist
melee: unarmed strike 1d6, +5 to hit
stunning fist (DC 15)
3rd level-sorcerer 1/monk 2, BAB +1
spells (infinite 0, 4 1st), +5 HP, feat-arcane strike
4th level-sorcerer 2/monk 2 BAB +2
spells (infinite 0, 5 1st), +5 HP, +1 to wis
5th level-sorcerer 3/monk 2 BAB +2
spells (infinite 0, 6 1st), +5HP, bloodline power and spell, feat-dodge
6th level-evangelist 1/sorcerer 3/monk 2 BAB +2
spells (infinite 0, 6 1st), +6 HP, obedience, skilled (+2 class skill choices)
7th level-evangelist 2/sorcerer 3/monk 2 BAB +3
spells (infinite 0, 7 1st, 4 2nd), aligned class-sorcerer, +1 AC, feat-
8th level-evangelist 3/sorcerer 3/monk 2 BAB +4
spells (infinite 0, 7 1st, 5 2nd), divine boon, boon 1-choice of (identify 3/day, fox's cunning 2/day, or secret page 1/day), +1 wis, +5 HP
9th level-evangelist 4/sorcerer 3/monk 2 BAB +5
spells (infinite 0, 7 1st, 6 1st, 4 2nd), gift of tongues (1 free language), bloodline feat-mobility, bloodline spell, feat-snapping turtle style, +5 HP
10th level-evangelist 5/sorcerer 3/monk 2 BAB +5
spells (infinite 0, 7 1st, 7 2nd, 5 2nd), multitude of talents (+4 to untrained skill check), +5 HP
11th level-evangelist 6/sorcerer 3/monk 2 BAB +6
spells (infinite 0, 7 1st, 7 2nd, 6 3rd, 4 4th), inevitable fist, feat-vital strike, +5 HP
For traits there's one that gives you +1 damage to unarmed strikes and one that lets you use wisdom for one physical skill.
Thanks for elaborating! I suggest you might get really good use from Truestrike. There's no better way to be sure you beat CMD and pull off that vital maneuver.
I was also looking to make a character that plays like a unarmed, Spont casting Magus.
That's a blood conduit bloodrager.
Wolfism-Do you happen know which traits those are? I don't remember having seen such a thing. I saw one that gave +1 for unarmed strikes but only on AoO's.
Magda-Truestike is a fantastic suggestion. Of course, a wand of mage armor and shield will also be essential.
Thefurmonger and LoneKnave-Blood conduit bloodrager is a cool class, but it's more spell through grapple, which isn't really what I'm aiming for here. I'm definitely looking for a monk-based hitting build with the spell casting. On the casting side, I might consider crossblooded to get additional abilities (as I really like the wis for casting from Empyreal, but not as much the other features/skills), but sorcerer mage is my focus here with the idea of building into evangelist.
Of course, with that said, I've realized I forgot to add Deific Obedience in as a feat, so I'll have to replace one of my feats with that. I'll probably add it at 5th and then add dodge at 7th.
Are there any other feats I should be looking at or suggestions for the ability spread?
http://www.pathfindercommunity.net/traits/regional/mizu-ki-hikari-rebel
+1 unarmed damage regional feat and wisdom in the flesh, and irori only religious feat.
Also apparently there's a new bloodrager archetype that specializes in unarmed fighting called the bloody knuckled roudy from the new melee tactics toolbox player companion.
Wolfism wrote: http://www.pathfindercommunity.net/traits/regional/mizu-ki-hikari-rebel
+1 unarmed damage regional feat and wisdom in the flesh, and irori only religious feat.
Also apparently there's a new bloodrager archetype that specializes in unarmed fighting called the bloody knuckled roudy from the new melee tactics toolbox player companion.
LINKIFICATION COMPLETE. PURPOSE SERVED.
pippinTook wrote: Garuda-blooded Aasimar (see invisibility instead of daylight. +2 dex and wis)
Str: 10 +0
Dex: 18 +4
Con: 12 +1
Int: 8 -1
Wis: 18 +4
Cha: 10 +0
Sweet jesus - why aren't you playing a Scion of Humanity Garuda-blooded Aasimar, and either a base Warpriest or Sacred Fist?
With Scion of Humanity, you get additional Bonus Combat Feats (as a base Warpriest) at levels 6, 12 and 18 (meaning you gain as many feats as a Fighter in total thereabout), you gain full levels of casting of 6/9 casting, and you can take all the Fighter-only feats and Human-only feats your little heart desires (again, base warpriest only, but the Sacred Fist can count as a Monk and gain bonus Combat Style feats, although they kinda lose out on the Human Favored Class Bonus that grants Bonus Combat Feats).
A Scion of Humanity Aasimar Warpriest with an Amulet of Mighty Fists (Agile), the Adopted (Orc - Tusked) trait, and taking Racial Heritage (Ratfolk) + Sharp Claw and eventually Metallic Wings can out-damage a Sacred Fist (by virtue of having simply a LOT more attacks per round than a Sacred Fist, thus offsetting the damage dice the SF gets), and pump up ALL those attacks with a single use of Sacred Weapon (gotta love the Feral Combat Training + Martial Versatility/Mastery workaround on that)
The thing about the Sensei is that, after spending two levels on it, you're stuck forever having to spend a standard action to begin a mediocre +1 performance, of which you have very few rounds/day. You're also giving up the Flurry of Blows option, which gives your Monk level effective full BAB when used and which gives you an invaluable extra attack.
I've toyed around with plenty of Battle/Caster builds, and I have to say that with what you're trying to do I would just accept having to split ability scores, either going Sohei/ Empyreal/ Eldritch Knight to flurry a temple sword with strength and power attack, or flurrying an Amulet of Mighty Fists.
pippinTook wrote: I'm looking at making the character a decent melee option (with magus-like qualities given the punch spells) as well as having some ranged casting options as well. If that's the primary concern and you still want to have a full casting class, I would highly recommend a Cleric/Monk1. There's a ton of synergy there for the taking, and there are ways to grab some select arcane spells as well. An Evangelist of Sarenrae/ Sohei1, for example, can buff the entire party with Inspire Courage and Heroism, buff themselves with Divine Favor/Power, and eventually use a scimitar to make Dervish Dance flurry of blows attacks.
Or if you want to focus on wisdom, an Irori Cleric/ Monk1 can make flurry-of-blows unarmed strikes with Guided Hand, while a Nethys Cleric can do it with a Quarterstaff.
If a 'Magus' dimension is important, there are very good domain powers that can be used through Domain Strike, and there are Cleric spells and powers like Aura of Chaos, Aura of Doom and Instrument of Agony that will cripple enemies just by moving up and/or attacking them.
Wolfism & LinkBot-Thanks for the link. Guess I hadn't thought to look in the regional traits. Flat +1 to unarmed is pretty sweet for this idea.
BadBird-I already have a channel smiting claeric as my main Core character, so I was trying to get something a little different here. Nice idea, though. Definitely going to get the Amulet of Mighty Fists with Agility for this character as soon as humanly possible.
chbgraphicarts-I'm kind of considering the sacred fist. I like the sorcerer/wizard touch spells better, so that's my main hang up on this. There are some ways to make it work for sacred fist though. I'll have to sit down with this and plot it out so I can see the 11 level progression for each and compare as well as comparing their spell lists.
Thanks for all the feedback and ideas, people. Feel free to keep throwing more my way and confusing me even further ;=)
If you aren't concerned with using wisdom/dexterity, then an Angel-Kin Aasimar Spirit Guide Oracle of Lore with a Lore spirit will allow you to dump dexterity, use charisma for everything from initiative to AC to saves, and pick up a whole pile of bonus arcane spells to add to your normal spell list. You're practically a Sorcerer for casting; you're just also an Oracle for casting and for everything else.
As it is, it works very well with normal strength-based two-handed weapons, but if you're looking to use fists then a single level of Sohei will let you use flurry of blows unarmed strikes while wearing Brawling armor - and still profiting from your casting stat boosting your AC.
Build-wise, it could go something like 16/18, 7, 13, 13, 8, 16/18. You take Noble Scion of War and the Sidestep Secret revelation at level 1 to replace dexterity with charisma for initiative rolls, AC and reflex saves; you take Divine Protection at level 5 to add your charisma as a bonus to all saves; and you pick up the Mental Acuity revelation at 11 (or sooner with Extra Revelation) to get free bonus intelligence for running your Lore spirit arcane spells.
So, if I keep with the sensei sorcerer idea, I could adjust the abilities to boost wis more (to balance out some lower BAB) and I could go crossblooded as the ghoul bloodline is more fighter-friendly (though I don't think the using wis for unarmed strike would work with the claws, but if it did, that would be even better) while the empyreal is essential for the wis casting.
At level 2 (as just a sensei getting ready to become a sorcerer), I'd have the following:
Str: 10 +0
Dex: 14 +2
Con: 10 +0
Int: 8 -1
Wis: 20 +5
Cha: 10 +0
AC: 17
HP: 13
Feats: Lingering performance, weapon focus: unarmed strike
Traits: magical knack, maestro of the Society
Melee: unarmed strike 1d6, +7 to hit
At level 3, I could use a spell like chill touch and have 3 rounds (via magical knack) worth of an additional 1d6 to my punch plus the need for a fort save or loss of strength. Adding in my oratory performance boost, I could have +1 to damage and to hit and I can get a total of 21 round with it given the 4 rounds/day, the additional 3 from maestro of the Society, and the 3 bonus rounds each time from lingering performance (as I could just start it and stop the next round). Add in arcane strike as a feat, and I have a permanent +1 to my strike damage and count as magic to overcome DR. This would increase at 5th level as I have the magical knack trait.
Not saying for sure that I'll go this route, but it seems more viable than my original layout.
BadBird wrote: The thing about the Sensei is that, after spending two levels on it, you're stuck forever having to spend a standard action to begin a mediocre +1 performance, of which you have very few rounds/day. You're also giving up the Flurry of Blows option, which gives your Monk level effective full BAB when used and which gives you an invaluable extra attack. Sensei is good for one thing and one thing only:
Entering Battle Herald without ever having to dip into either Bard or Evangelist Cleric (since Battle Herald doesn't advance spellcasting one bit). Getting some Bonus Feats like Stunning Fist, IUS, and Combat Reflexes is just icing on the cake.
Other than that, yeah, Sensei is just meh.
Wis to hit, AC, and as casting stat is where I'm focused. I don't know of another way to get 3 of the primary aspects of a character boosted by a singular stat.
Sacred Fist with Channel Smite + Guided Hand.
Sacred Fist grants +Wis to AC.
Guided Hand uses Wis to hit (Wis-based Weapon Finesse), and needs Channel Smite to take.
Channel Smite lets you spend a Swift Action to burn a Channel use to add additional damage on one melee attack by activating Channel through your attack (be a Neutral SF and take Negative energy so you can damage living things with it).
Sacred Fists casts using Wisdom.
A Lawful Neutral Scion of Humanity Garuda-Blooded Aasimar Sacred Fist/Warpriest of Irori is a force to be reckoned with.
chbgraphicarts wrote: Sacred Fist with Channel Smite + Guided Hand.
Sacred Fist grants +Wis to AC.
Guided Hand uses Wis to hit (Wis-based Weapon Finesse).
Well done!
I'd looked at guided hand a while ago, but had dismissed it. Mayhaps I should re-examine that. Of course, a warpriest can't channel until 4th level, so that doesn't go extremely well with my idea of multiclassing to sorcerer. I'd probably have to look at going straight sacred fist if I did this unless I waited until 5th level to multiclass.
pippinTook wrote: chbgraphicarts wrote: Sacred Fist with Channel Smite + Guided Hand.
Sacred Fist grants +Wis to AC.
Guided Hand uses Wis to hit (Wis-based Weapon Finesse).
Well done!
I'd looked at guided hand a while ago, but had dismissed it. Mayhaps I should re-examine that. Of course, a warpriest can't channel until 4th level, so that doesn't go extremely well with my idea of multiclassing to sorcerer. I'd probably have to look at going straight sacred fist if I did this unless I waited until 5th level to multiclass. The point is: Screw Sorcerer; it's not really worth it, not for this idea.
For what you want to do, you'd be better of taking a Magus, since they get Spellstrike and Spell Combat, but even then you're best off actually taking a Wisdom-based Spellcaster-Monk from level 1 onward.
Crunched some numbers, and this is the best I think I can do for the monk-mage character (assuming I don't forgo sorcerer).
Str: 10 +0
Dex: 14 +2
Con: 10 +0
Int: 8 -1
Wis: 20 +5
Cha: 10 +0
AC: 17
HP: 13
Feats: Lingering performance, weapon focus: unarmed strike
Traits: magical knack, maestro of the Society
Melee: unarmed strike 1d6, +7 to hit
3rd level: sorcerer 1/monk 2, BAB +1, HP: 18, AC: 17
Bloodline power (heavenly fire or ghoulish claws 8 rounds/day), Feat-arcane strike, melee: 1d6+1 (magic), +7 to hit
4th level: sorcerer 2/monk 2 BAB +2, HP: 23, AC: 17
+1 to wis, melee: 1d6+1, +8 to hit
(adding dex to damage as soon as an amulet of the mighty fist-agile can be attained)
5th level: sorcerer 3/monk 2 BAB +2, HP: 28, AC: 18
bloodline power (leathery skin-AC +1, cold resistance 5), Feat-deific obedience, melee: 1d6+2, +8 to hit
6th level: evangelist 1/sorcerer 3/monk 2, BAB +2, HP: 33, AC: 18
2 additional class skills, melee: 1d6+2, +8 to hit
7th level: evangelist 2/sorcerer 3/monk 2, BAB +3, HP: 38, AC: 20
aligned class (sorcerer), +1 to AC, melee: 1d6+2, +9 to hit, dodge
8th level: evangelist 3/sorcerer 3/monk 2, BAB +4, HP: 43, AC: 21
+1 to wis, divine boon 1, melee: 1d6+2, +10 to hit
9th level: evangelist 4/sorcerer 3/monk 2, BAB +5, HP: 48, AC: 21
gift of tongues, melee: 1d6+2, +11 to hit
10th level: evangelist 5/sorcerer 3/monk 2, BAB +5, HP: 53, AC: 21
multitude of talents, melee: 1d6+3, +11 to hit
11th level: evangelist 6/sorcerer 3/monk 2, BAB +6, HP: 58, AC: 21
divine boon 2, haste 9/day, melee: 1d6+3, +12 to hit
With mage armor and shiled, the 11th level AC is 29 and I'm at +13 to hit when using inspire courage
chbgraphicarts wrote:
Other than that, yeah, Sensei is just meh.
Hardly. Sensei with 20 Wisdom is is one of the best single class monks you can make. Wis to hit with all monk weapons allows them to be one of the most SAD martials you can make. They keep Manuever Training so they are full BAB with a 20 score for making manuevers. Combine that with a unique monk weapon like a Seven Branched Sword and they can keep an enemy flat-footed all the time. Performance is worth the flurry loss, as it helps bring non-manuever accuracy to 20 and buffs the whole party. Combine with Qinggong it can have the entire party buff with a barkskin, or have the entire party blast with a cold ice strike. It's also worth noting that because they have a 20 wisdom, they are actually able to make use of stunning fist as they can both hit and have a high DC.
Couldn't you just go Kensai Magus and use the arcane pool and spell strikes for damage?
1. instead of mixing up classes you could simply invest in UMD skill. Buy your caster level and not lose BAB progression or monk class features.
- you can use traits, skill focus feat, skill ranks to boost UMD.
2. If your worring about range attacks, you could go switch monk to zen archer.
3. If you just want some spells, inquisiter or cleric offer divine with Wisdom as their caster level.
4. Take 1 class in whatever spellcaster class you want and gain UMD use of that class spells w/o a UMD check.
5. Convince your DM to play a Gestalt game (gain abilitys from 2 different classes w/ each level).
-----------------------------------------
I personnally enjoy my: flowing monk 4/witch 1, quite a bit. The flowing monk is built to trip. The witch adds hex (use hex strike, your gonna be punching the enemy anyway). The hex strike feat cost a swift action but gives enemy -2 to AC (making up for 2 BAB). Keeping the enemy tripped adds -4 to AC, lets party rogue get SA, wastes a enemy action (move to stand up, which draws an AoO). You can add vicious stomp feet for another AoO when the enemy hits the ground.
Well, Gesalt ideas are out as I'm playing PFS.
Kensai won't give me the unarmed strike like a monk, but more importantly, it won't give me the wis boost to AC. Being able to stack that in alongside dex, mage armor, and the shield spell is pretty lovely.
I know crossing Wisdom into your attack rating and picking up Inspire Courage seems like a great combo, but there are three issues:
First, spending a round to begin a +1 Inspire Courage is an awful waste of time, particularly if you're planning to spend a round to cast haste and spend another round to put some kind of touch spell on your unarmed strikes.
Second, your damage is still tied to a physical stat. Even if you can achieve a reasonable chance to hit with a BAB that's barely better than a straight sorcerer by level 11, your damage is ineffective. Where a front-line character can easily be smacking things for 20-30+ damage long before level 11, you're not breaking 10 points on a hit even if you spend a round to put something like Elemental Touch on your unarmed strike. Or if you're putting a one-shot spell like Intensified Shocking Grasp on your unarmed strike to deliver it with a punch, then you're adding so little from that punch that it makes no sense to spend two separate rounds to cast the spell, then move up and punch when you could just cast the spell and deliver it in one round with a touch.
Lastly, with two levels of Monk you're setting back your spellcasting - including, at that point, effective caster level even if you picked up Magical Knack - so that in a situation where you're better off just casting a spell, it's going to be a rather weak one.
I hope this isn't coming across as harsh or anything, I'm just trying to put it in context. It's not an unworkable plan, but it's going to have some very significant issues.
Two level in Moms monk and Kensai using snake style, weapon versatility or another way to make unarmed strike in to a piercing weapon get Precise strike and you are Golden. You get both dex, int and Wisdom to AC, with snake style you get AOO every time they miss you. Pehaps make a character that works better at level 1 and rebuilt at level 2.
A versatile human or another that gets +2 to dex and int is Best but dex and Wisdom also works.
Edit: alternatly a shaman Can get wis to hit and Dam by using the hair hex. And with feral combat training and a monk dip he Can get flurry as well:)
BadBird-I actually appreciate that you wat to pull out all the downfalls/challenges so I'm aware of them. I'd rather not go in thinking it's a solid idea and be blindsided. I'm just being bull-headed with it as I've wanted to make this monk-mage character work for a good decade or so.
Cap. Darling-Your idea is intriguing, but I don't know how you're envisioning the ability spread fitting in with that. I was already using int as the dump stat, so there goes the casting stat and AC bonus from kensai.
For the kensai i would go str 10, cha 8, Con 12, dex 16, int and wis 14 before racial i dont have the book that allow variant asimars so i would Pick erstatte human and get +2 to dex and int. Weapon finesse and snake style at level 1, snake fang at 2 combat reflexes at 3 flamboyant arcana and arcane deed(precise strike) at 5. Somthing like that.
Edit: and use shield and frostbite when the spells are there:)
The shaman need more levels to function properly.
Edit2: if you have the option to make a goblin it could be a very powerfull unarmed kensai/monk:)
Cap. Darling wrote: For the kensai i would go str 10, cha 8, Con 12, dex 16, int and wis 14 before racial i dont have the book that allow variant asimars so i would Pick erstatte human and get +2 to dex and int. Weapon finesse and snake style at level 1, snake fang at 2 combat reflexes at 3 flamboyant arcana and arcane deed(precise strike) at 5. Somthing like that.
Edit: and use shield and frostbite when the spells are there:)
The shaman need more levels to function properly.
Hmm, I'll have to crunch the numbers and see what I think of this. Int, dex, and wis all going to AC is pretty lovely. Weapon finesse letting me use dex to hit and adding in an amulet of the mighty fist-agile for dex to damage would also be pretty nifty. Combat casting from Kensai saves time (and avoids the need to walk around with a charge of a touch spell in hand for whenever we encounter combat). It's definitely got potential. I just have my head stuck on the idea of sorcerer, but I may have to accept that I need to compromise that to have a character who can legitimately help his party consistently.
Thanks for the input. And that thanks goes to everyone who's been chiming in.
You could always make a Eldritch Scrapper:)
Nah just kidding i cannot see how that would be great as a single classed character.
Cap. Darling wrote: You could always make a Eldritch Scrapper:)
Nah just kidding i cannot see how that would be great as a single classed character.
Amusingly, my daughter's got a character who is an Eldritch Scrapper (as an elemental sorceress who thinks she is draconic, so wears costume horns, wings, and a tail).
Not really what I'm going for, but it suited her character idea.
pippinTook wrote: Cap. Darling wrote: You could always make a Eldritch Scrapper:)
Nah just kidding i cannot see how that would be great as a single classed character.
Amusingly, my daughter's got a character who is an Eldritch Scrapper (as an elemental sorceress who thinks she is draconic, so wears costume horns, wings, and a tail).
Not really what I'm going for, but it suited her character idea. Sounds fun but Does she get somthing worthwile out of the archtype?
Cap. Darling wrote: pippinTook wrote: Cap. Darling wrote: You could always make a Eldritch Scrapper:)
Nah just kidding i cannot see how that would be great as a single classed character.
Amusingly, my daughter's got a character who is an Eldritch Scrapper (as an elemental sorceress who thinks she is draconic, so wears costume horns, wings, and a tail).
Not really what I'm going for, but it suited her character idea. Sounds fun but Does she get somthing worthwile out of the archtype? Her scrapper's only 1st level (or might have just reached 2nd), so it's been a successful idea so far. Not sure how viable she'll be as she levels up, but I'll always be there playing something that can protect her, so no worries. Realistically, though, I think she'll be hitting issues once she hits 5th level and upwards.
Okay, here's the rough draft version of this character as a Monk of Many Styles/Kensai/Evangelist starting at 2nd level
Garuda-blooded Aasimar (+2 to dex and wis, see invisible instead of daylight)
Str: 10 +0
Dex: 18 +4
Con: 12 +1
Int: 14 +2
Wis: 16 +3
Cha: 8 -1
AC: 17
HP: 15
Feats: Snake style, weapon finesse, snake fang
Traits: Magical knack,
Special Abilities: Evasion
Melee: unarmed strike 1d6, +5 to hit
3rd level: kensai 1/MoMS 2, BAB +1, AC: 18, HP: 21
weapon focus: unarmed strike, canny defense, spell combat, arcane pool 3 points (1 point for +1 weapon enhancement for 1 minute), feat: slashing grace, melee: unarmed strike 1d6+4, to hit +6
4th level: kensai 2/MoMS 2, BAB +2, AC: 19, HP: 27
+1 to dex, spellstrike, melee: unarmed strike 1d6+4, to hit +7
5th level: kensai 3/MoMS 2, BAB +3, AC: 19, HP: 33
magus arcana-flamboyant arcana, feat: arcane strike (+2 to hit and counts as magic for DR), melee: unarmed strike: 1d6+5, +8 to hit
6th level: evangelist 1/kensai 3/MoMS 2, BAB +3, AC: 19, HP: 39
obedience, add 2 class skills, perfect strike
7th level: evangelist 2/kensai 3/MoMS 2, BAB +4, AC: 21, HP: 52
protective grace, aligned class (kensai), feat: dodge, bonus feat: toughness, melee: unarmed strike 1d6+5, +9 to hit
8th level: evangelist 3/kensai 3/MoMS 2, BAB +5, AC: 22, HP: 59
+1 dex, boon 1, magus arcana: ?, melee: unarmed strike 1d6+6, +11 to hit
9th level: evangelist 4/kensai 3/MoMS 2, BAB +6, AC: 22, HP: 66
gift of tongues, knowledge pool, medium armor profiency, feat: vital strike, melee: unarmed strike 2d6+6, +12 to hit
10th level: evangelist 5/kensai 3/MoMS 2, BAB +6, AC: 22, HP: 73
multitude of talents, improved spell combat, melee: unarmed strike 2d6+7, +12 to hit
11th level: evangelist 6/kensai 3/MoMS 2, BAB +7, AC: 22, HP: 80
divine boon 2, magus arcana: ?, melee: unarmed strike 2d6+6, +13 to hit
Do you enjoy missing attacks?
Im against 3 low bab classes for a melee centric character like this.
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote: Do you enjoy missing attacks?
Im against 3 low bab classes for a melee centric character like this.
Okay, so what would you suggest?
I would not take the evangalist PC but just stay kensai after level 2. Losing a Bab point by going evangalist at kensai 3 is at least problematic but pehaps you Can go evangalist from moms 2, kensai 4 and be ok.
Edit: slashing grace is not gonna do anything for you.
Cap. Darling wrote: I would not take the evangalist PC but just stay kensai after level 2. Losing a Bab point by going evangalist at kensai 3 is at least problematic but pehaps you Can go evangalist from moms 2, kensai 4 and be ok. Well, I like that evangelist gives me all the additional features, but still lets me level up as my casting class (with a 1 level exception and the lack of BAB for that one level). Using Irori, that's +4 on all knowledge checks, additional spells (of which I'd probably choose fox's cunning), and then unarmed strike as if I'm one size larger and they're axiomatic (for rounds equal to my hit dice). Not too shabby, really. Then, there's the bonus AC, extra language, and extra class skills. Kind of lovely extras.
EDIT: I see your logic, though. Just offering mine as a counter.
First you're taking a MaD class like monk...mixing it with a class like Kensai, Int based, and then finishing it off with a gimic PrC.
Ever heard of spreading yourself too thin?
I feel you're going to spread yourself thin and not be satisfied by this character. Other than his saves I feel this character is rather weak.
+13 to hit...+11 if Spell striking on a 11th level character. Yikes. And the damage a kind of poor.
I feel your trying to cram too many concepts into a build. Shorten that list abit and then see what options there are to better your remaining Options. You're not specializing into 1 thing but instead go with 2-3 things you can do well.
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote: First you're taking a MaD class like monk...mixing it with a class like Kensai, Int based, and then finishing it off with a gimic PrC.
Ever heard of spreading yourself too thin?
I feel you're going to spread yourself thin and not be satisfied by this character. Other than his saves I feel this character is rather weak.
+13 to hit...+11 if Spell striking on a 11th level character. Yikes. And the damage a kind of poor.
I feel your trying to cram too many concepts into a build. Shorten that list abit and then see what options there are to better your remaining Options. You're not specializing into 1 thing but instead go with 2-3 things you can do well.
Okay, would you feel this concept was more viable if I don't go with evangelist?
Granted, one of the things I do well with this build is the knowledge checks boosted by the evangelist, but still.
Additional comment, the magus has a BAB of +8 at 11th level, which is only 1 higher than the +7 I've got with this build. Yes, 1 point can make a difference, but I was thinking it was keeping up fairly well, actually.
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote: First you're taking a MaD class like monk...mixing it with a class like Kensai, Int based, and then finishing it off with a gimic PrC.
Ever heard of spreading yourself too thin?
I feel you're going to spread yourself thin and not be satisfied by this character. Other than his saves I feel this character is rather weak.
+13 to hit...+11 if Spell striking on a 11th level character. Yikes. And the damage a kind of poor.
I feel your trying to cram too many concepts into a build. Shorten that list abit and then see what options there are to better your remaining Options. You're not specializing into 1 thing but instead go with 2-3 things you can do well.
If you look at the numbers again you will se that the to hit is only one behind a normal magus and with weapon focus and arcane pool he will have a fine to hit remember he wont be using power attack. And at level 11 1d6+9 before magic items (agile amulet pehaps?) is fine. Remember that he also have magic like frost bite to top it up with. 2d6+20 before items and arcane pool is decent at level 11 especially if he get a AoO every time somebody miss him in melee.
Cap. Darling wrote: Fruian Thistlefoot wrote: First you're taking a MaD class like monk...mixing it with a class like Kensai, Int based, and then finishing it off with a gimic PrC.
Ever heard of spreading yourself too thin?
I feel you're going to spread yourself thin and not be satisfied by this character. Other than his saves I feel this character is rather weak.
+13 to hit...+11 if Spell striking on a 11th level character. Yikes. And the damage a kind of poor.
I feel your trying to cram too many concepts into a build. Shorten that list abit and then see what options there are to better your remaining Options. You're not specializing into 1 thing but instead go with 2-3 things you can do well.
If you look at the numbers again you will se that the to hit is only one behind a normal magus and with weapon focus and arcane pool he will have a fine to hit remember he wont be using power attack. And at level 11 1d6+9 before magic items (agile amulet pehaps?) is fine. Remember that he also have magic like frost bite to top it up with. 2d6+20 before items and arcane pool is decent at level 11 especially if he get a AoO every time somebody miss him in melee. Thanks, Cap. Darling. That's what I was thinking as well.
Vital strike actually turns my damage into 2d6+7 before we pile spell damage into the mix. Of course, if anything's too massive to hit full on, I can always just try touching with the spell and target that lower touch AC.
I really appreciate all the input on this build.
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