We kicked off a new Kingmaker campaign tonight - getting off to a great start as the players aced the first encounter with ease, and tore off into the wilderness to explore and seek out the encampment they'd heard about. Of course, that's when the dice threw a blizzard at them. They were just within range of Oleg's to retreat and hole up within the warm walls of the trading post, but they lost three days to time as they huddled indoors. On the fourth day the gale-force winds subsided and they lost no time forging straight toward the encampment.
One day out of the post, however, and I asked how many people had brought food for their horses. Everyone but one player had neglected them completely (mistakes of a novice explorer), but the halfling luckily had enough feed to share for a few days' travel. After the encampment fight (a slaughter, the players barely took damage against their full strength), we ended the session.
I created inventory tracking sheets for the players, because I'm planning to keep track of expenditures of rations, feed, arrows, encumbrance, and the like. My players aren't used to that - and one player seems very annoyed by the idea (the halfling who'd remembered to bring feed, surprisingly). He considers the rations/feed "nothing but a minor gold sink and a MAJOR annoyance." For the low-fantasy feel of kingmaker's early adventures, and the thrill of surviving in the wild, I want to have the players manage their resources. I even provided a tracking sheet to make it as simple as filling in a few numbers, with gold totals and weight calculated automatically.
How do I convince a player who hates the entire idea of bookkeeping to get on board with the idea?
If the player starts suffering the negative consequences of starvation and thirst (laid out below) then he might get on board, but it probably won't make him like it any better. We all play to have fun and tracking this level of mundane detail is something that many people find tedious. Maybe you could have 1 player track for the entire group as this is something that could occur in real life. The military has logistics officers to worry about this type of stuff, someone to track rations, fuel, ammunition, etc. for their unit.
Starvation and Thirst
Characters might find themselves without food or water and with no means to obtain them. In normal climates, Medium characters need at least a gallon of fluids and about a pound of decent food per day to avoid starvation. (Small characters need half as much.) In very hot climates, characters need two or three times as much water to avoid dehydration.
A character can go without water for 1 day plus a number of hours equal to his Constitution score. After this time, the character must make a Constitution check each hour (DC 10, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. Characters that take an amount of nonlethal damage equal to their total hit points begin to take lethal damage instead.
A character can go without food for 3 days, in growing discomfort. After this time, the character must make a Constitution check each day (DC 10, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. Characters that take an amount of nonlethal damage equal to their total hit points begin to take lethal damage instead.
Characters who have taken nonlethal damage from lack of food or water are fatigued. Nonlethal damage from thirst or starvation cannot be recovered until the character gets food or water, as needed—not even magic that restores hit points heals this damage.
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If your players don't like bookkeeping, they're going to hate the kingdom building rules.
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All the various minor resource management minigames of Pathfinder are things I've only made the mistake of using once. They're not fun, and they serve no real purpose except to annoy the players with various tedious bits of homework.
Especially obnoxious if you track the weight of gold.
The Spell Component Pouch is assumed to have everything a caster might need to cast a spell of 1 gp or below. Adventuring Kits should do the same.
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You can also point out the weight of these items. It would be cheating for someone to walk at full speed if they are encumbered. If you want the gear to play with and get a +2 on a skill check, you have to pay both the hp and weight, or get slowed down if carrying too much. Maybe they could argue the feed is on the horses but if they leave pc food on horses also and bandits steal them, they would have to eventually suffer those starvation effects or spend time hunting.
If you want a bonus or to avoid the negative consequences of failing to pay upkeep, pay the price. Whatever it is, gp, weight, time, ext.
We kicked off a new Kingmaker campaign tonight - getting off to a great start as the players aced the first encounter with ease, and tore off into the wilderness to explore and seek out the encampment they'd heard about. Of course, that's when the dice threw a blizzard at them. They were just within range of Oleg's to retreat and hole up within the warm walls of the trading post, but they lost three days to time as they huddled indoors. On the fourth day the gale-force winds subsided and they lost no time forging straight toward the encampment.
One day out of the post, however, and I asked how many people had brought food for their horses. Everyone but one player had neglected them completely (mistakes of a novice explorer), but the halfling luckily had enough feed to share for a few days' travel. After the encampment fight (a slaughter, the players barely took damage against their full strength), we ended the session.
I created inventory tracking sheets for the players, because I'm planning to keep track of expenditures of rations, feed, arrows, encumbrance, and the like. My players aren't used to that - and one player seems very annoyed by the idea (the halfling who'd remembered to bring feed, surprisingly). He considers the rations/feed "nothing but a minor gold sink and a MAJOR annoyance." For the low-fantasy feel of kingmaker's early adventures, and the thrill of surviving in the wild, I want to have the players manage their resources. I even provided a tracking sheet to make it as simple as filling in a few numbers, with gold totals and weight calculated automatically.
How do I convince a player who hates the entire idea of bookkeeping to get on board with the idea?
Some GM's do handwave such things, so if I am going to enforce it for a campaign then I have it noted when I hand out character creation rules. <---- That won't make them like it, but they will know it is expected.
With that said I would only do it in a survival style game. Other than that I don't push it, and there is not much you can do to actually make them like it.
I generally don't like it(tracking food and water) myself, but for a game where I am stuck in the wilderness I would consider it to be part of the challenge. However not everyone is like me, so don't expect for them to look at it differently just because the game has a wilderness/survival element to it.
PS: If all of the players really hate it, then I would just say you need food, and assume they had enough. There are other things such as bandits, and animals trying to kill them or steal their food that you can use as challenges.
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Maybe you could have 1 player track for the entire group as this is something that could occur in real life. The military has logistics officers to worry about this type of stuff, someone to track rations, fuel, ammunition, etc. for their unit.
This might be the OP's best option if he wants them to like it.
This might be the OP's best option if he wants them to like it.Maybe you could have 1 player track for the entire group as this is something that could occur in real life. The military has logistics officers to worry about this type of stuff, someone to track rations, fuel, ammunition, etc. for their unit.
Yeah, this seems like the best option. I want the players to need to pay attention to supplies and stuff because Oleg's should feel like a lifeline to civilization. Their Survival isn't high enough to always provide food for the whole party - they need civilization to get by. And since their eventual goal is to expand civilization, seeing the fruits of their labor, as it turns the inhospitable wilderness into civilized lands they rule over, should be a very tangible and enjoyable reward for their effort.
If your players don't like bookkeeping, they're going to hate the kingdom building rules.
The biggest surprise is that the player who dislikes the ration-tracking is our Kingdom Building expert. He ran literally every kingdom decision in our last kingdom-building adventure and just grew the nation from a 10 BP start to a massive country with no trouble.
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The Spell Component Pouch is assumed to have everything a caster might need to cast a spell of 1 gp or below. Adventuring Kits should do the same.
Quoted for truth.
In my games quivers of standard arrows work that way, too.Edit: If your RL job includes book-keeping and listing of resources etc. doing the same during your free time is not very high on the wish list.
In the Kingmaker game I gmed Swetlana (Oleg's wife) packed ration packets for them each time they left the trading post. It was a reward for some quest for her.
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Make tracking the rations easier and more fun. Whenever they buy rations, give them a card that represents one day of rations. When a day passes, they must give you one ration card.
Yeah, this seems like the best option. I want the players to need to pay attention to supplies and stuff because Oleg's should feel like a lifeline to civilization.This might be the OP's best option if he wants them to like it.Maybe you could have 1 player track for the entire group as this is something that could occur in real life. The military has logistics officers to worry about this type of stuff, someone to track rations, fuel, ammunition, etc. for their unit.
Really? When I GM, I tend to want the players to have fun.
If accountancy isn't fun, telling the players they need to do it won't make it so.
I mean, you know, otherwise Kingmaker might become a game or some other form of leisure-time activity. And we can't have that.
The Stolen Lands are a pretty lush area, even without supplies it wouldn't be difficult for characters to survive, and certainly horses would be able to graze etc, at least anytime but winter (and if you track seasons, I would expect the players to stay home for 3 months or so.) Obviously having supplies means you can explore more efficiently and in greater comfort, but it isn't really a 'lifeline' in the sense of worrying about death.
As after a level or two, the expense is so negligible to not be worth tracking.
As after a level or two, the expense is so negligible to not be worth tracking.
This is the real key to me here. I can certainly see it for the first level (especially in the Stolen Lands) but the party is going to pretty quickly get to the point where it really is just a meaningless chore -- "Hold on, I need to subtract 3.5 sp from my 3,000 gold pieces.")
At most, if it looks as though the players might be headed out for a lengthy trip, ask them how many rations they are buying (i.e. hit them over the head with it). Then you might just get the party druid to say "screw it, I'll just make us food".
Their Survival isn't high enough to always provide food for the whole party
Can they get by if you let them take 10 on the foraging Survival checks? If so, you could simply let them do that, move at half speed and forage as they go instead of carrying rations.
(IMC I give an additional incentive for the party to explore at half speed by saying that they have a better chance of being stealthy/spotting wandering monsters ahead of time if they're exploring at half speed.)
Alternatively, assuming they all have horses, their carrying capacity for rations is so large that you could just assume they have enough that they're not going to run out, and you as the GM can just calculate their resupply cost whenever they return to Oleg's. These bulging saddlebags of rations can also be plot points - wandering monsters can try to sneak in at night and munch (and despoil) the rations rather than attack the party, or the saddlebags can be lost due to failed rolls during river crossings. I wouldn't normally have threats that can steal gear from players, because everyone hates that. However, if what gets stolen or lost is just the generic rations, they're cheap and easily replaced. Losing them in some singular event would allow you to have a "spotlight on survival and food" session where they actually need to eke out their last few meals or forage to survive, without it being the focus of every session.
In either case, there are other, larger ticket consumables that they'll still need to resupply occasionally - antitoxins, potions, possibly ammunition if you're tracking that. They'll also want to sell off unwanted loot and upgrade their gear. So, even if you're not tracking daily consumption, it won't make them completely independent of civilization.
Bean Counting isn't fun.
If they are in an area with reasonable access to water and wilderness, and even one character has Survival, its pretty much a given that the party isn't going to starve. Why waste time on it?
Unless the concept of starvation or dehydration are actually relevant to the story (a desert setting, for instance) then all tracking rations does is take away from the time spent having fun.
Something I've been considering is tracking rations at a party level, where the GM can easily take care of the bean-counting aspects. Then it's just a matter of reminding the party when they're getting low on rations (especially if they have X days worth of rations left and are X days of travel away from the nearest resupply point) and they don't have to be bothered with tracking it themselves. Similarly, having a nice spreadsheet on your tablet that tracks all of the bonuses and penalties for the kingdom so that the players don't have to do any math both speeds up the game and removes most of the tedious bean-counting from the kingdom-building parts of the campaign.
I once was in a game where rations were tracked. My PC had a trained hunting facon/hawk. With it's wis bonus of +2 it can hunt by taking 10 and always gets enough food for itself and its master. (DC is 10 and for every +2 you manage you can feed another person). Per the rules it would provide me with water, as well. But I just has two waterskins (1gallon each) at my horse.
And with a speed of 60 it can hunt and is still as fast as a human while doing so (1/2 speed).
A raven is cheaper and can hunt taking 10, too. It's just slower. But still good enough if the party has a dwarf or someone in medium or heavy armor.
Something I've been considering is tracking rations at a party level, where the GM can easily take care of the bean-counting aspects. Then it's just a matter of reminding the party when they're getting low on rations (especially if they have X days worth of rations left and are X days of travel away from the nearest resupply point) and they don't have to be bothered with tracking it themselves. Similarly, having a nice spreadsheet on your tablet that tracks all of the bonuses and penalties for the kingdom so that the players don't have to do any math both speeds up the game and removes most of the tedious bean-counting from the kingdom-building parts of the campaign.
Interesting idea. I think that the player in question would respond better to a GM prompt of "you're running low on rations." I'll have to think about that.
It may be easier to keep track of them at a somewhat higher level. Ask them how much they want to stock up at Oleg's. Record that and then pre-calculate basic quartiles - how encumbered and slowed they are carrying 100% provisions, how long it takes to get to 75% and how encumbered they'll be, how long it takes to get to 50% and how encumbered they'll be, 25%, and then 0%. Then just tell them when, via adventuring, they hit the 75% zone, then at 50% zone, then 25%. They won't have to do it individually but they can decide what point it's time to head back for reprovisioning.
Basically, I think what you want is to make sure they're thinking about getting back to Oleg's periodically rather than stay out in the field 100% of the time. And you want to make sure they're covering some of the complexities - like having a wagon or mules - to tote their provisions around and how that affects their moving about speed.
And, of course, if they do have wagons or mules, you'll want to occasionally wreck some of that due to hazards so they lose provisions as another challenge to overcome...
Basically, I think what you want is to make sure they're thinking about getting back to Oleg's periodically rather than stay out in the field 100% of the time. And you want to make sure they're covering some of the complexities - like having a wagon or mules - to tote their provisions around and how that affects their moving about speed.
And, of course, if they do have wagons or mules, you'll want to occasionally wreck some of that due to hazards so they lose provisions as another challenge to overcome...
These are good points. By and large, after about level 2, the costs of provisions will be pretty negligible, but its more about verisimilitude than anything. You don't want Oleg's to be a place they stop in at the first session and then never return to. You want them to at least pay some deference to the idea that they can't, or at least shouldn't, stay out in the field forever.
But as others have said, as a general rule, counting beans isn't much fun. There are times and places for it of course, but for the most part, spending an entire campaign on it just isn't fun.
I have had a couple of recent examples where my GM had us, to an extent, keeping track, and they were absolutely reasonable. One was the start of the campaign where we were playing escaped slaves who at the start were literally still running from our captors with pretty much nothing but the clothes on our backs. In this particular situation it made sense for us to have to make Survival checks to forage for food (which we did not do well on). This worked well because then when we would enter a dungeon or building and find food, we were actually excited. After about the second or third session though it stopped being an issue.
The second occasion was when we had "acquired" a ship and finally decided to set sail for another locale. The GM made a point of asking us what provisions/crew we were obtaining. Once we mentioned what, and how much, we were buying, she was satisfied. Now we know to make a point of reprovisioning whenever we are in port.
Grazing would count as foraging - you can't graze if you're spending 12 hours exploring every corner of a hex. If they want to go at half speed though, that's a good consideration - I'd allow any plains hexes to feed the horses as though they auto-succeeded on their survival checks to forage.
Grazing would count as foraging - you can't graze if you're spending 12 hours exploring every corner of a hex. If they want to go at half speed though, that's a good consideration - I'd allow any plains hexes to feed the horses as though they auto-succeeded on their survival checks to forage.
Even without half-speed, I'd probably allow your basic horses and mules to auto-succeed. Exploring a hex is probably not going to be about constant riding and movement. There will be plenty of stops for snacks, to scan the area (and maybe even jot down details) from a vantage point, and other elements of rest that a horse should be able to forage just fine.
I'd consider requiring anyone owning a warhorse (or pony) to buy feed, though. That should be a higher maintenance animal.
When we started our Kingmaker campaign, I told the party I wanted to track this stuff (along with ammunition, and encumbrance), but that lasted only a few sessions before everyone stopped bothering with it. I'm tracking too much stuff on my side to worry about tracking their resources, too. Reading the D&D or PF can make one think this stuff is important because the books devote a decent amount of text to foraging, starvation, dehydration, getting lost, etc. But the rules are part tedious (all the bean counting) and part unplayable (the rules for getting lost, for example). I've been playing D&D for decades and never actually had a game that was faithful to the rules in this respect for more than a few sessions.
From my experience (just finishing up Stolen Lands), the key purpose of rations is that it forces the players to go back to Oleg's regularly. Aside from giving you the chance to introduce all the sidequests at Oleg's, this has the wonderful effect of burning through those calender days, bringing the dreaded Brevic winter closer and closer.
My players don't mind ration-tracking at all (and dilligently ask how many days of rations to mark off when they travel somewhere), but if they did, here is what I would do:
I would get them to figure how many days worth of rations the party could carry and assume they get that many (for free, the price is irrelevant) whenever they return to Oleg's. Then take your campaign calendar (a good idea if you don't have one, makes it easy to preroll all the weather) and mark when they will run out of food. If they get to that day and haven't gone back to Oleg's, they have to start foraging.
I will say that one thing that is somewhat worth tracking is "loot". Even there though I ignore most of it as a GM. Where I might start making exceptions is when the party starts to take everything that isn't nailed down. I've had this exchange before:
Player: We search the bodies.
Me: Well, each of the skeletons had a the massive six foot long broad sword, but nothing else of note.
Player: Okay, I'll take them.
Me: All 6 of them?
Player: Yep.
Me: Ooookay, how are you transporting them?
Player: Oh, uh, I'll just strap them to my back with some rope.
Me: (makes note) Sure.
Later
Player: I run through the doorway.
Me: Actually, the doorway is going to be difficult terrain for you because you'll have to kind of side step through it.
Player: WTF? Why???
Me: You're still carrying those swords right?
Player: Yeah, but I would have tied them to my back vertically so I could fit through doors.
Me: Isn't your character 5'1"?
Player: Oh. Uhhh, yeah. How much do I think these swords are worth again? (Rolls Appraise)
Me: Ehhh, they're a bit banged up, you think you might be able to get about 15 gp each.
Player: Yeah, I'm totally dropping these swords after the fight.
Our GM regularly splits us up or scatters us across several hexes since we started KM.
It's an excellent way to make sure everyone has their own provisions, we also leave offerings to appease the faeries we encounter (cookies, jerky, sweet wine, miniature jewelry and equipment).
Some of the various ways we split up the party;
While riding some friendly giant eagles, surprise attack by a roc diving out of the sun, eagles scattered & the roc took one home with a dwarf.
While swimming a river, some PC's get swept away by the current or a creature. (Most PCs suck at swimming)
Increased chance for teleport error, due to weakened planar boundaries. (We've had a lot of teleport errors)
Being attacked while climbing by grabby creatures.
Entering and leaving the Fellnight Realm at different times.
Being attacked while swimming across lakes, from above and below.
Chasing after monsters and such through the forest at night.
Several PCs wanting to go solo at the same time to different unexplored hexes.
Spending the night on Candlemere isle.
Annoyed faeries.
All of those resulted in one or more PCs being "alone in the woods" for several days or weeks.
I think everyone has a ring of sustenance or one of Erastil's bronze skinning knives now plus whatever gear needed to spend a few nights on a mountain top in winter because the mage & druid are incapacitated.
Just split up your PCs, and make them get back to civilization on their own a few times, then see what they're willing to cart around.
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I'm one of those players that find that tracking rations pretty boring. Ammunition too for the most part. Unless they are special material arrows or something, bean counting is tedious for the cost of what these things are.
The exception to this is if it becomes a major point of the adventure. If you're stranded on an island or lost in the jungle or the DM wants to make 'starves to death' and actual plot goal. Then watching the food tick away or the arrows dwindle down can be exciting and scary. But it should be in small doses.
If it's only a book keeping thing? I'd rather ignore it. Much like Bathroom breaks and cleaning your clothes. Important when they're important... but otherwise just assumed to have been done during the day/week.
I've seen some rules for a simple 'base cost' figured by 'level of comfort' in one of the books... 20g a week/month or whatever for poor conditions, 80 for middle class, 200 for high society (or whatever the numbers actually are...) I like that idea. You actually still HAVE the money sink going on, but you don't have to balance a checkbook.
If you are generous, then you can keep yourself track of the food. But they can complain if they run off rations in the middle of nowhere!
I'm not sure I'd recommend the DM doing the bookkeeping on that. I approve of a 'party supplies sheet'... but if there isn't ANYONE at the table willing to mark of the days... then what's the point of pushing it?
Seems like more work for the DM, when the DM is the only one getting any joy out of it.
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Make tracking the rations easier and more fun. Whenever they buy rations, give them a card that represents one day of rations. When a day passes, they must give you one ration card.Reminds me of time in Irrisen! Good times, except when I hit on barmaid and ended up getting turned into newt.
I certainly hope you got better.
I think the OP has to consider what his group finds "fun" and what they do not. While there are times that tracking consumables SHOULD be important, most of the time it's tedious, boring and brings nothing to the table other than extra paperwork.
I mean, if I wanted to play Accountants and Spreadsheets, I'd go to work.
Solution:
The cost of rations and animal feed are subsumed into monthly lifestyle cost paid by the players.
If they are not "in town" (or at the trading post) for over a month, then they will need to acquire sustenance through other means.
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I haven't played Kingmaker, but I figure that in any exploration/wilderness adventure, things like supplies are a part of the fun. You couldn't play Oregon Trail without worrying about the "beancounting." The "beancounting" is an important part of the gameplay. Moreover, it's an important part of the story. If you handwave questions about provisions, getting lost, etc, then you've just handwaved 80% of a wilderness survival/frontier exploration story. So, what's the point?
Kingmaker isn't really a wilderness survival story though. It is an exploration story. But when you do you remember Indiana Jones talking about if they had enough food to make it through their trek? I sure don't.
If you want to have a game that focuses on survival sure, it becomes mroe important. But it sounds like that is not the game your players want to play.
Alright! Update!
So we had our second session last night. I didn't relent on forcing the players to track rations, but I managed to get them on board with the idea. They had the belief that they were superheroes like in any other adventure path - charging through the meaningless and creature-free wilderness and making a beeline toward the "boss." Realizing that animal feed is really heavy got them to realize that they'd need to keep returning to Oleg's to resupply. They thought it over and decided they would ditch the horses (selling them back to Oleg), and continue on foot with only one horse for carrying heavy gear, so that they'll be able to be away from Oleg's for longer. I've pre-rolled the next 400 days of weather, so the ranger was able to make some Survival checks to predict what was coming, and they foresaw three days into the forecast - and realized another storm was on its way in three days! They finished up some local exploring and headed back to the trading post.
The storm abated quickly but then some abnormal weather (a heat wave in winter) immediately preceding a hailstorm kept them penned up at the trading post another three days while they helped Oleg with repairs from hail damage.
We stopped the session there - the player in question seems to be in better spirits, though he is refusing to use the inventory tracking sheet I made for the players. Everyone else loves it - it tracks every gold piece they earn or spend, and does all the math automatically. A huge time saver. But the one player just refuses to use it, saying "I'll track it on my character sheet." He's trustworthy so it's not an issue of him trying to cheat or anything, but it's really kind of annoying that he just flat-out refuses to use the same method as everyone else, especially when it's very clear I want them all to do it. I haven't insisted or anything - it's a game to be played for fun, after all, but it bothers me.
Kingmaker isn't really a wilderness survival story though. It is an exploration story. But when you do you remember Indiana Jones talking about if they had enough food to make it through their trek? I sure don't.
If you want to have a game that focuses on survival sure, it becomes mroe important. But it sounds like that is not the game your players want to play.
It's not about survival, it's about wilderness. The Stolen Lands need to feel wild. They depend on civilization - they can't just wander into the woods and be fine forever. It's important that they feel that that's true, because civilization is what they're bringing to this land in the second book and beyond.
Well here's the good news. It sounds as though your players have, in general, bought into what you want. Granted, the one player doesn't want to use your particular format, but it does seem as though he is at least tracking things. As long as you trust him, its not really an issue (in my opinion).
As to it being about wilderness, you are not entirely wrong. I think it is proper to make sure that they, to an extent, are taking account of things. For instance, had they got caught in a blizzard and didn't have a) cold weather gear or b) any kind of shelter, there should be consequences. At the same time though, I can probably count on my fingers the number of times that I have heard a GM ask "So, what kind of shelter do you have?"
The other thing I will add though is to keep in mind that while it is indeed about wilderness (particularly for the first book), it is still something that in all likelihood will become moot within a level or two. The ranger, for instance, will be able to use Survival to find food/water. A cleric can purify it, etc. Even buying feed/rations will become tedious after a couple of levels. Not because its not important per se, but when you are constantly tracking cps and sps when your bankroll is measured in thousands of GPs, it just becomes more of an accounting game than an exploration game. I think that is where you can say "Well, X gp will get you plenty of gear for your next trip out".
Now there is a possible compromise here though if you are still concerned about tracking amount purchased and weight, etc. You can always sprinkle treasure parcels with more carrying enhancing gear, such that "I buy X gps worth of rations/feed/etc." becomes more reasonable. You can have more bags of holding or haversacks, or even create items yourself. I know in a campaign that I am playing in, the GM "gave" us a magic item that was a portable stable, complete with Unseen Servants to care for the animals housed inside. Now we just need to make sure that there's feed available and we are good to go. The whole thing collapses down to a horseshoe so carrying capacity isn't an issue. Of course, this doesn't mean that items of this nature should necessarily be in addition to regular treasure, but its just an idea.
We stopped the session there - the player in question seems to be in better spirits, though he is refusing to use the inventory tracking sheet I made for the players. Everyone else loves it - it tracks every gold piece they earn or spend, and does all the math automatically. A huge time saver. But the one player just refuses to use it, saying "I'll track it on my character sheet." He's trustworthy so it's not an issue of him trying to cheat or anything, but it's really kind of annoying that he just flat-out refuses to use the same method as everyone else, especially when it's very clear I want them all to do it. I haven't insisted or anything - it's a game to be played for fun, after all, but it bothers me.
I'm with him there myself. I don't like spreadsheets and whatnot, or character sheets that do too much auto-calculation for me.
This is more of a preference thing than him being spiteful if he's anything like me.
Our GM regularly splits us up or scatters us across several hexes since we started KM.
It's an excellent way to make sure everyone has their own provisions, we also leave offerings to appease the faeries we encounter (cookies, jerky, sweet wine, miniature jewelry and equipment).Some of the various ways we split up the party;
While riding some friendly giant eagles, surprise attack by a roc diving out of the sun, eagles scattered & the roc took one home with a dwarf.
While swimming a river, some PC's get swept away by the current or a creature. (Most PCs suck at swimming)
Increased chance for teleport error, due to weakened planar boundaries. (We've had a lot of teleport errors)
Being attacked while climbing by grabby creatures.
Entering and leaving the Fellnight Realm at different times.
Being attacked while swimming across lakes, from above and below.
Chasing after monsters and such through the forest at night.
Several PCs wanting to go solo at the same time to different unexplored hexes.
Spending the night on Candlemere isle.
Annoyed faeries.
All of those resulted in one or more PCs being "alone in the woods" for several days or weeks.
I think everyone has a ring of sustenance or one of Erastil's bronze skinning knives now plus whatever gear needed to spend a few nights on a mountain top in winter because the mage & druid are incapacitated.Just split up your PCs, and make them get back to civilization on their own a few times, then see what they're willing to cart around.
The GM could not split up a group I have played with because we would just travel together. That idea is not likely to work with most groups I have been with.
I have a level 4 accountant, should I consider taking a dip into procurement specialist?
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I have a level 4 accountant, should I consider taking a dip into procurement specialist?
Take form 5L and fill out lines 28-43, skipping part 31B-C, then copy and distribute the original form to department beta, while stapling the copy to two forms of photo ID and giving that to department gamma, wait seven businesses days, and reply to the email received from our HR department within two businesses days before 4pm to recieve your answer via fax by the next first of the month.
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Cant I just stab it in triplicate,
i'm not doing paperwork unless I can stab it
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I haven't played Kingmaker, but I figure that in any exploration/wilderness adventure, things like supplies are a part of the fun. You couldn't play Oregon Trail without worrying about the "beancounting." The "beancounting" is an important part of the gameplay. Moreover, it's an important part of the story. If you handwave questions about provisions, getting lost, etc, then you've just handwaved 80% of a wilderness survival/frontier exploration story. So, what's the point?
That's like saying: Material components are part of the fun of playing a caster. The bean counting is an important part of the gameplay. Moreover it's an important part of the story. If you handwave questions about where did you get the bat guano, how much do you have and how can you stand the smell of rotten eggs, etc, then you've just handwaved 80% of the story about playing a caster. So, what's the point?
Cant I just stab it in triplicate,
i'm not doing paperwork unless I can stab it
Only if you have a Red Swingline Stapler.
I haven't played Kingmaker, but I figure that in any exploration/wilderness adventure, things like supplies are a part of the fun.
Yes, but if your players don't....
Well, let me put it this way. If you're having fun, but your players aren't, the game won't last long.