Also, do all things Pathfinder come with the Pathfinder rules?
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It's good, they keep up to date with releases and are fairly responsive to bug fixes. They have great volunteer contributors who make third party material and add-ons/adjustments, a good number of third party publishers are getting on board.
It can get a bit expensive though. You get the core rules and some extra bits (AP material, PFS etc) with the main pathfinder data set. Then you buy other datasets for $4.99 and they have 4 books each and are split into campaign books and companion books. Ultimate Magic. Combat, APG, ACG, UCamp are separate data sets as are the bestiaries. So it adds up.
BUT they are putting a ton of work into it (I tinker with the editor and it takes agggges to make something). I don't even really notice now as I have all the data sets. When a new one comes out I think "three quid? That's less than a pint, and I'll get more enjoyment out of it".
Since I can't really drink anymore, I'll use the money I might have once spent on beer for it.. lol
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I bought it last Paizocon, I am really happy with the purchase.
As mentioned you get teh CRB plus some for basic subscription. Everything else is additional cost but most of the small splat books are bundled for savings.
One thing I like is that they add in the playtest material for free until the actual book is released.
I enjoy getting to throw together PCs and see how it all works. Makes it fairly easy to crunch numbers.
I have just started to run a WotR campaign and am just now starting to use the encounter builder and tactical window for combat.
For generic monsters the encounter builder is fairly easy, though I find it is best to have it pre arranged...a little clunky to throw together a random encounter on the fly. For named villains you will need to make them up on your own from what I have noticed.
As a player I generally have HL up and running and do all modifications in it. Then leave notes in it and save at end of session.
So, yeah. I like HL. Great resource IMO, even though there are some warts.
The good:
Makes customizing monsters (adding class levels, templates, whatever) a breeze. Wanna pump up a villain so they're still relevant when they show up again 5 levels later? Easy peasy.
If you run Paizo adventures chances are someone has already made HeroLab files for all the encounters for you. Huge timesaver.
Encounter generator is a godsend when making an encounter on the fly. Calculates CR, gives you a searchable bestiary, excellent. Clunky compared to designing one yourself in prep time, but if you just wanna throw a random encounter with no prep its easy.
Character generation = easy! Pretty much a godsend if you have new players, especially when it is level up time.
Wanna print out a bunch of different character sheets for your barbarian's various modes? A snap.
Got a newbie to casting spells? Print out their spellbook for them. No more leafing through books/googling every turn.
You can use it to roll and track initiative for you, as well as track HP, status ailments, etc. Never have to keep track of 15 goblins' initiative again. You'll remember that Goblin #3 is dazzled while Goblin #6 is nauseated. And so on.
They are really on the ball about bug fixes and keeping it updated with the most recent Paizo content.
Really good at calculating how much stuff is worth. It's a pain to go through a bajillion tables to figure out how much that +2 impervious darkwood buckler is worth so the player can sell it. Herolab cuts down on that.
The bad:
Expensive, unless all you want is the CRB.
Also if you have a lot of devices it gets expensive, and even if you pay you have a limit to how many devices you can use a license on.
The mobile version crashes pretty much all the time (at least on my apple devices). I felt like I wasted my money on the extra license for my tablet since its pretty much unplayable for me.
Sometimes imperfect rules enforcement. If you're willing to just wing it and trust HeroLab (like I do) that's cool, but if you have a rules lawyer at the table and they find out it can be wrong sometimes expect stuff to get over-analyzed. Like 99% of the time it'll be right but that one time it is wrong that might be all it takes for everything to get scrutinized from that point on.
If you do a lot of house-rules or adjustments to the core game system it might have issues, or even 3rd party stuff that isn't supported. You can program in custom feats and classes and things but that stuff is too complex for me.... so I simply don't use a lot of 3pp classes/monsters that I otherwise would.
Don't expect it to be good at tracking inventory, gold, or encumbrance. It has features to do those things but it is clunky enough that simply writing stuff out on loose leaf is more effective. Making magic items (I groan at inputting stuff like +2 flaming holy adamantine longsword) , in particular, is tedious.
Not good at tracking status effects that aren't "normal" like slowed, or sickened. It will be tedious to input your custom "scarlet rotavirus" disease that causes -2 ini, -1 dex, -1 con and sickened for 10 days. Simpler to do that the old fashioned way.
If you use it to export character sheets, if the character is really complex (aka high level) the character sheet template will run out of room and stuff will simply be left off the character sheet.
Overall.... I recommend it. I'm biased obviously since I already bought and paid for it. But I couldn't imagine running a game without it now. I'm way more likely to fiddle with encounters with it. It has saved me a lot of time.
On the flipside, if you are more of a player than a GM then I don't recommend it. You can get equivalent character builders for free, or cheaper, online.
Hero Labs is great for tracking all the optional stuff that affects you during combat (Feats-Power Attack, Spells-Shield, Conditions-Shaken, etc...) and a lot of the tedious things (Encumbrance, Wand Charges, Ammo).
Can make character generation easier too, but be aware, if you don't do it level by level and just add 5 levels of a class at once it'll consider your current level scores/abilities (BAB) for all feats you select, so you might grab a feats you actually wouldn't have been able to if you'd done it level by level.
Sometimes HL doesn't calculate things right, but as mino said, the HL crew is pretty good about fixing bugs when they get reports. Still, it's good to go over your bonuses before play and verify the numbers check out, plus it helps with system mastery to know where your bonuses are coming from and knowing if they should stack.
HL also has some support for the more popular 3PP material; unfortunately no Dreamscared Press, though.
Contributor
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The good:
Makes customizing monsters (adding class levels, whatever) a breeze. Wanna pump up a villain so they're still relevant when they show up again 5 levels later? Easy peasy.
If you run Paizo adventures chances are someone has already made HeroLab files for all the encounters for you. Huge timesaver.
Encounter generator is a godsend when making an encounter on the fly. Calculates CR, gives you a searchable bestiary, excellent. Clunky compared to designing one yourself in prep time, but if you just wanna throw a random encounter with no prep its easy.
Character generation = easy! Pretty much a godsend if you have new players, especially when it is level up time.
Wanna print out a bunch of different character sheets for your barbarian's various modes? A snap.
Got a newbie to casting spells? Print out their spellbook for them. No more leafing through books/googling every turn.
You can use it to roll and track initiative for you, as well as track HP, status ailments, etc. Never have to keep track of 15 goblins' initiative again. You'll remember that Goblin #3 is dazzled while Goblin #6 is nauseated. And so on.
They are really on the ball about bug fixes and keeping it updated with the most recent Paizo content.
The bad:
Expensive, unless all you want is the CRB.
Also if you have a lot of devices it gets expensive, and even if you pay you have a limit to how many devices you can use a license on.
The mobile version crashes pretty much all the time (at least on my apple devices). I felt like I wasted my money on the extra license for my tablet since its pretty much unplayable for me.
Sometimes imperfect rules enforcement. If you're willing to just wing it and trust HeroLab (like I do) that's cool, but if you have a rules lawyer at the table and they find out it can be wrong sometimes expect stuff to get over-analyzed. Like 99% of the time it'll be right but that one time it is wrong that might be all it takes for everything to get scrutinized from that point
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I agree with this.
I love Herolab and use it all the time. It's saved me tons of time. The bad is still bad, but if you can deal with all that (and once you get past the initial investment), I highly endorse it. :)
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The good:
Makes customizing monsters (adding class levels, whatever) a breeze. Wanna pump up a villain so they're still relevant when they show up again 5 levels later? Easy peasy.
If you run Paizo adventures chances are someone has already made HeroLab files for all the encounters for you. Huge timesaver.
Encounter generator is a godsend when making an encounter on the fly. Calculates CR, gives you a searchable bestiary, excellent. Clunky compared to designing one yourself in prep time, but if you just wanna throw a random encounter with no prep its easy.
Character generation = easy! Pretty much a godsend if you have new players, especially when it is level up time.
Wanna print out a bunch of different character sheets for your barbarian's various modes? A snap.
Got a newbie to casting spells? Print out their spellbook for them. No more leafing through books/googling every turn.
You can use it to roll and track initiative for you, as well as track HP, status ailments, etc. Never have to keep track of 15 goblins' initiative again. You'll remember that Goblin #3 is dazzled while Goblin #6 is nauseated. And so on.
They are really on the ball about bug fixes and keeping it updated with the most recent Paizo content.
The bad:
Expensive, unless all you want is the CRB.
Also if you have a lot of devices it gets expensive, and even if you pay you have a limit to how many devices you can use a license on.
The mobile version crashes pretty much all the time (at least on my apple devices). I felt like I wasted my money on the extra license for my tablet since its pretty much unplayable for me.
Sometimes imperfect rules enforcement. If you're willing to just wing it and trust HeroLab (like I do) that's cool, but if you have a rules lawyer at the table and they find out it can be wrong sometimes expect stuff to get over-analyzed. Like 99% of the time it'll be right but that one time it is wrong that might be all it takes for everything to get scrutinized from that point
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Awesome write up. Only disagree with encounter building on the fly...but I am not as fluent with its use yet so that may change.
I mainly use it to create characters faster, and I can save the character in the same format that Pathfinder NPC's are in using a pdf file.
Some people use it to quickly modify characters with buffs while they play.
When you buy Herolab you get one system such as Pathfinder, Shadowrun and so on. If you want to access the extra books such as the APG, bestiary 2 and others you have to purchase them. However some books can be purchased at a discounted rate if you buy a bundle.
Herolab however is not a rules source or a substitute for knowing the rules since it does have errors. I often have to go back and fix things, but that is a lot faster for me than doing everything from scratch.
If I was only a player I probably never would have purchased it, but as a GM I like it a lot more due to the time it saves.
You can also create your own monsters and even classes, but that is beyond the basic program and depending on what you want to do it might require some coding.
I have never used the encounter builder so I can't really say much about that.
PS: There are normally ways to implement house rules so that is good. As an example you can give a character free skill points or assign new class skills.
I agree with most of the things said. Be warned that you will most likely have issues if you format you devices often.
I have to agree that the only downside is really the expense. I purchased it before all the extra books came out, and I purchased the new books as they came out. This softened the blow because the cost was spread out over time. One nice thing is that you can install it on two devices so if you have more than one computer it can be put on both.
The tactical console is great if you are the GM. It really simplifies running combat as you can keep track of both characters and enemies. You can apply the conditions, spells, and just about any other game effect on any character. It automatically rolls for and tracks initiative, which is great for large encounters.
The dice roller is helpful when you need roll lots of saving throws. It also comes in handy when you need to roll without the players knowing you are rolling. A couple of clicks of the mouse and I can roll perception rolls for the whole party without them realizing it.
It speeds up character generation considerably. This is helpful when you want to compare builds to see how they stack up. If you are not sure what class or archetype you want to go with simply build both at a the level you want to compare and see how they stack up. This also allows a GM to quickly build NPC’s.
Best way to do it: Find a friend, split the cost down the middle for all the data packages you want. My friend and I did it, we each get a license, and the cost for a good chunk of all the books went from $100 to $50 immediately, and now I cant imagine living without it.
Thanks, everyone. I'm the GM ALL.THE.DAMNED.TIME, so this would be a good investment, I think. I just have to save up for it. I'd be the one to foot the whole bill, though, as no one else would really use it, I'm afraid.
Hero Lab is a great resource as long as you're willing to drop about $200 on all of the data packages that you need. It makes character creation on the fly an absolute breeze so it's invaluable during a walk up game when new players want to join.
The in-play options for characters and monsters is a great tool to help track their current status as regards to skills, spells, effects, etc.
The differences between playing without Hero Lab and using it during play are like night and day.
That said, Hero Lab is not infallible and you will run across a miscalculation or two so it's always wise to double check against the books when you're uncertain.
HL also has some support for the more popular 3PP material; unfortunately no Dreamscared Press, though.
There is a community file that supports Path of War and Ultimate Psionics from Dreamscarred. Both are free.
Thanks, everyone. I'm the GM ALL.THE.DAMNED.TIME, so this would be a good investment, I think. I just have to save up for it. I'd be the one to foot the whole bill, though, as no one else would really use it, I'm afraid.
I did not purchase all of my books at once, and I don't purchase every book that comes out. I do try to get the hard cover books though. The settings books are purchase if I really want to use them, and in that case I do the bundle, even if I don't need the other books.
IIRC the initial cost to fully use Herolab is $20.
HL is worth the investment if you play regularly and like the idea of having an electronic character generator to easily try out character builds.
One of our players plays in-game from it as well and that works good for him.
One nice thing is that you can install it on two devices so if you have more than one computer it can be put on both.
Actually that isn't a nice thing, it's a bad thing that you only install it on only two devices and you have to pay for the rest.
The only thing I will add to this fairly complete thread is that herolab tends to have issues with more complex character ideas. The more moving parts you expect to transition from a to b the more likly you are to run into a snag. This is never a problem for single-classed characters, but particularly is you have a bunch of stuff that "counts as" stuff and stuff that advances somethings else's stuff, or you are expecting x to stack with y, you may just double check that everything worked out, because that is where the problems lie.
Other than that, the only thing I have to add is that the multiple license for 2 computers are supposed to be in the same "household." I had a friend get one of his licenses shut off because he shared it with his GM. So I don't think that going dutch on herolab is encouraged by the publisher.
The mobile version crashes pretty much all the time (at least on my apple devices). I felt like I wasted my money on the extra license for my tablet since its pretty much unplayable for me.
Karolina, can you please contact our support system (support@wolflair.com)? That's a report that I haven't seen from users often, so if there's something going on I want to make sure that the developers are aware. If you shoot us an email, please reference this thread and include that Liz asked you to email so that I can make sure it gets to me. Thanks!
Try PC Gen
It's free, and show many, if not most, of hero labs features...
Agreed, I run PC Gen as well.
I'm not going to pay for the books, pay for a program to make using the books easier, and then pay for making the books I just paid for easier to use.
I don't mind buying books. I don't mind buying the program. I do mind the double dip. If there was some way of them making it so that if you have the book you could scan the UPC off it or something to add it without having to pay for another module (or come up with something that isn't so easily faked), I'd be good.
But paying several hundred dollars in books, and then turning around and paying several hundred dollars again just to be able to use those books more quickly? No thanks.
(yes, I realize this is two different companies here, maybe Piazo should make their own editor program though)
(yes, I realize this is two different companies here, maybe Piazo should make their own editor program though)
That generally doesn't work well. Look at the program that came with 3.0 D&D for examples of poor implementation. The other problem is bugs / design decisions made by the programmers start being used as the example of exactly how the rules are supposed to work without necessarily being reviewed by the game design people.
(yes, I realize this is two different companies here, maybe Piazo should make their own editor program though)That generally doesn't work well. Look at the program that came with 3.0 D&D for examples of poor implementation.
Actually, I personally enjoyed the limited version that came with the PHB. I thought it had a very nice interface, was easy to use, and was all around quite helpful. When it ran over budget and they kicked it out to a third party to finish and they turned it into... that thing that we ended up with, then it sucked.
Hero Lab also now supports polymorph effects on your character and it has many spells you can just select that automatically adjust your character. They include the mythic versions for those spells too. So if you cast Enlarge Person, Hero Lab will adjust everything on your character for you. If you select the Mythic version, then it makes the new adjustments. If you cast Form of the Dragon, Hero Lab will make the necessary adjustments for you.
The only thing I don't really like is the filter. It's too limited. Sometimes I want to only look at gear under a certain GP value. You can't do that. It does, however, let you easily determine prices for crafting items.
I've had the program for a couple of years now. It is a FANTASTIC resource for building/updating encounters.
In the game I just started, I brought my two laptops that have HL installed and my group used the program to build their 1st level characters. Putting them together was a snap, and now five of my six players have gotten the software to manage their characters (admittedly two of them are married and another two are roommates, so they're sharing the installs within the households, but still).
As for the cost for the datasets, I personally think Lone Wolf is more than fair. There is a HUGE amount of stuff that comes with the base purchase (including the NPC Codex, for instance). They have included the Editor, so if you really don't want to part with your cash you can certainly build what you need; it is not the most intuitive thing in the world, but after a few tutorials it's not that bad either. I've built feats and classes, implemented alternate versions of class abilities from house rules, and even set up full mechanical differences from the core rule set to keep our house rules working smoothly. Any and all of this (and a lot more) can be done through the Editor.
But why would I do that, spending hours and hours of my free time adding feats and spells and archetypes when I can get a whole book's worth (with really responsive customer support and bug fixes mind you) for a measly $10. Yes, it can be a lot if you buy a bunch all at once, but after the initial investment it's just not that much per book. I tend to just buy the big hard backs, and if I need to add a feat or something here or there from one of the smaller releases I just pick those up as needed.
The amount of time it has saved has made the purchase a no brainer. If you are a GM, it's worth the cost (though you might want to limit your initial purchase to books you use a lot). If you are a player, I also think it's worth it, because you only need to buy datasets for the books that pertain to your character. And from experience, running a character in Hero Lab at the table, being able to apply the Enlarged Person as well as, Blind, Staggered, Stunned, Entangled, Sickened, and Prone conditions to the character and being confident that the numbers are all correct is really just the icing on the cake.