Global Organized Play Coordinator
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Consider though, that if one of you do this, and I present it, and Mike either responds similarly or not at all, then the discussion should probably turn towards "Whats the best current options for my character?" rather than, "He's ruined I want extended grandfathering or a rebuild!"I of course can't speak for everyone, but my stance is just that I want some kind of acknowledgement that the extended grandfathering proposal has been considered. They have made a few posts, but none have addressed that aspect. It could just be one word, No, and I'll drop it at that (I won't be very happy about the matter, but that's true anyway, and at least I'll drop it).
We considered it. We decided not to go with that option. Thanks for all the feedback.
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I'm happy to have seen a response from Mike, though I didn't personally have any skin in the game or think it was necessary for him to do so.
I'm not sure how viable a discussion of 'what do I do with my character now' actually is. There may be some generalities, like retraining a class level or building through to the prestige class without early entry. I'm not sure. But it seems to me every character is different, there are a number of prestige classes that could have been affected (MT, Arcane Trickster, and EK at least) each would have different options. How far you are down the path to qualification also makes a difference. Maybe a stickied thread in the Advice board would be appropriate. A place where people could post their build and get advice. Or maybe someone who plays has played more prestige classes than I, can make a guide with their suggestions for players at different points a long the route to a PrC on where to go in the future.
I want to be clear I'm interested in the topic, I'm just not sure how viable it is in one thread. Also, I have read this thread since the beginning out of interest in the different logical arguments, but it seems to me that with a clarification from Mike it has accomplished the stated goal of the title.
Well that De-escalated quickly!
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I want to be clear I'm interested in the topic, I'm just not sure how viable it is in one thread. Also, I have read this thread since the beginning out of interest in the different logical arguments, but it seems to me that with a clarification from Mike it has accomplished the stated goal of the title.
Yeah, this thread is pretty bloated at this point. Probably best to just let it die and take the "how do/can I fix it?" discussion to the Advice forum.
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(/◕ヮ◕)/ \(◕ヮ◕\)I wouldn't necessarily go that far. Those guys look too happy for many of the thread's participants. At least there is closure for those folks who will be trashcanning their level 2s.
Yeah! ^.^!
When the thread got locked and pruned, I took notice that a lot of my posts had been taken out. So, since I didn't have a horse in this particular race, I decided to cease posting. But I've been lurking, simply hoping that closure would come for the masses.
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Now that we have acknowledgment, can we get to,"how can I move forward with this character?"I think that's been addressed a few times. The general consensus is that unless you are willing/able to spend significant prestige on a rebuild, the best option is to throw it in the trash and start up a character you will enjoy. I think everyone can agree that it's not really worth investing large amounts of time into something that you don't think you'll enjoy. There's the possibility that you're wrong, but there's also a good possibility that you're right (as you probably know what you enjoy more than anyone else). May as well put that same time into something you are relatively certain you will enjoy.
For the record, I won't be trashcanning either of my affected characters.
I suspect they'll both end up primarily single classed with a somewhat strange dip class "for flavour". They'll both be a bit weaker than they could have been (weaker than either their prestige class would have been as well as weaker than the single classed version of themselves would have been). But they'll be a little different (which is always fun) and still quite viable at most levels. I'll probably have to be a little careful about playing up with them
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That's the logic that the character class was strictly built for access by aasimars and tieflings. Which is simply idiotic. The class is still as accessible to plain jane Humans or Elves without freaky powers. That level of access never changed through out it's entire history.
For the love of God, please stop beating a dead horse.
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That's the logic that the character class was strictly built for access by aasimars and tieflings. Which is simply idiotic. The class is still as accessible to plain jane Humans or Elves without freaky powers. That level of access never changed through out it's entire history.For the love of God, please stop beating a dead horse.
I AM SORRY THAT YOUR HORSE HAS DIED, ACEDIO!
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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That's pretty much what this entire thread has been about since Post 1.That's the logic that the character class was strictly built for access by aasimars and tieflings. Which is simply idiotic. The class is still as accessible to plain jane Humans or Elves without freaky powers. That level of access never changed through out it's entire history.For the love of God, please stop beating a dead horse.
Actually, the thread got unlocked due to the quality of conversation, some good dialogue happened, closure was achieved, and people were ready to let it go and move on.
But I think that all happened while you weren't participating in the thread, so I guess you missed it.
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Seriously, you got the best kind of indecisiveness.Yep.Amen.Count your blessings. Blobs still have potential.HORSE FACTORY? THAT SOUNDS MAGICAL!
I WISH THERE WAS A CLASS FACTORY WHERE I COULD BE ASSIGNED MY DESTINY. UNFORTUNATELY MY DESIGNER IS TOO INDECISIVE AND THIS CURRENT FORM IS ALL HE CAN AFFORD TO GIVE ME RIGHT NOW.
What they said.
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Count your blessings. Blobs still have potential.HORSE FACTORY? THAT SOUNDS MAGICAL!
I WISH THERE WAS A CLASS FACTORY WHERE I COULD BE ASSIGNED MY DESTINY. UNFORTUNATELY MY DESIGNER IS TOO INDECISIVE AND THIS CURRENT FORM IS ALL HE CAN AFFORD TO GIVE ME RIGHT NOW.
Unlike Wiz3/Clr3 Mystic Theurges >.>
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Unlike Wiz3/Clr3 Mystic Theurges >.>Count your blessings. Blobs still have potential.HORSE FACTORY? THAT SOUNDS MAGICAL!
I WISH THERE WAS A CLASS FACTORY WHERE I COULD BE ASSIGNED MY DESTINY. UNFORTUNATELY MY DESIGNER IS TOO INDECISIVE AND THIS CURRENT FORM IS ALL HE CAN AFFORD TO GIVE ME RIGHT NOW.
YOU MEAN SOME PEOPLE HAVE THREE CLASSES!? I WOULD BE HAPPY WITH JUST ONE...
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Would it be possible to announce future changes like this with a blog post, like the assimar/tiefling grandfathering post, so that it is easy to find the official announcement?We considered it. We decided not to go with that option. Thanks for all the feedback.Consider though, that if one of you do this, and I present it, and Mike either responds similarly or not at all, then the discussion should probably turn towards "Whats the best current options for my character?" rather than, "He's ruined I want extended grandfathering or a rebuild!"I of course can't speak for everyone, but my stance is just that I want some kind of acknowledgement that the extended grandfathering proposal has been considered. They have made a few posts, but none have addressed that aspect. It could just be one word, No, and I'll drop it at that (I won't be very happy about the matter, but that's true anyway, and at least I'll drop it).
If you are asking them to post the ruling in a forum post, they did post about the SLAs here. If you are asking for advanced warning that will not happen due to their stated reasons here, due to abuse.
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I haven't read the entire thread. If this is a duplicate, my apologies.
If something seems too good to be true, it likely is. Making use of it at be within the rules, but if too many people look askance at it and it's gonna be changed. This thread, at least in the early parts I read, illustrate this repeatedly. For MT, for Aasamars, for speed running mods. It may be within the rules, but don't be shocked when it is removed or changed. Actions have consequences.
I totally appreciate people stating that they played within the rules and got screwed. When you see exploitive options, they will be changed. If you rely upon them as a new player, i feel for you. If you give people advice to take advantage of exploits, you're setting them up for disappointment. If you so it as an experienced player, you took a risk. If it doesn't seem like it, use it as an opportunity to adjust your approach to organized play.
I'm not being dismissive. There is a bit of "you got what you deserved Shadenfreunde in my post, but please take it for the constructive input contained. I don't know how to communicate this without it.
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I think what Howie23 was trying to say is similar to what I've heard some other say. That even though the SLA exception was legal, some feel it was clearly an exploitative way to use the rules to your benefit and that something that glaringly obvious would most likely be reversed or at least changed in the future. By taking advantage of said "loophole" you knowingly set yourself up for a future "screwing" and that demanding an accommodation is disingenuous.
Not making a value statement nor agreeing/disagreeing with that position, just relaying what I understand the position to be. Make you own decision if it has merit or not. YMMV
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I think what Howie23 was trying to say is similar to what I've heard some other say. That even though the SLA exception was legal, some feel it was clearly an exploitative way to use the rules to your benefit and that something that glaringly obvious would most likely be reversed or at least changed in the future. By taking advantage of said "loophole" you knowingly set yourself up for a future "screwing" and that demanding an accommodation is disingenuous.
Not making a value statement nor agreeing/disagreeing with that position, just relaying what I understand the position to be. Make you own decision if it has merit or not. YMMV
Yes, we all know that's what he meant. That's the whole reason why his post is so offensively absurd.
If someone made a character based on the original SLA FAQ just a couple of months after the original FAQ came out and it got reversed, then perhaps a little bit of the above sentiment would be justified. But it was left alone for a year and a half.
At some point, it stops being reasonable to describe the building of PCs based on that FAQ as "exploitative" or "glaringly obvious that it would most likely be reversed". At some point, the idea that a player "should have seen it coming" stops being a wise caution and starts being petty, combative, self-important nonsense.
We can't determine exactly when that point was, but it definitely came and went sometime in the last year and a half.
And even so, the people on the receiving end of said nonsense managed to put it aside long enough to have a reasonable discussion that concluded amicably. The propagators of said nonsense, on the other hand, keep turning the thread toward the negative. That's another element to the sour taste left by Howie's comment: closure and good feelings were had, and then wham.