A request for clarification from management wrt the SLA FAQ change


Pathfinder Society

501 to 550 of 581 << first < prev | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | next > last >>
Grand Lodge 5/5 Global Organized Play Coordinator

15 people marked this as a favorite.
Akari Sayuri "Tiger Lily" wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
Consider though, that if one of you do this, and I present it, and Mike either responds similarly or not at all, then the discussion should probably turn towards "Whats the best current options for my character?" rather than, "He's ruined I want extended grandfathering or a rebuild!"
I of course can't speak for everyone, but my stance is just that I want some kind of acknowledgement that the extended grandfathering proposal has been considered. They have made a few posts, but none have addressed that aspect. It could just be one word, No, and I'll drop it at that (I won't be very happy about the matter, but that's true anyway, and at least I'll drop it).

We considered it. We decided not to go with that option. Thanks for all the feedback.

4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Thank you for saying as much.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Now that we have acknowledgment, can we get to,"how can I move forward with this character?"

Liberty's Edge 5/5

FYI: I was asleep when Jiggy and Tiger Lily posted their arguments and when Mike responded.

1/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Andrew Christian wrote:
Now that we have acknowledgment, can we get to,"how can I move forward with this character?"

I think that's been addressed a few times. The general consensus is that unless you are willing/able to spend significant prestige on a rebuild, the best option is to throw it in the trash and start up a character you will enjoy. I think everyone can agree that it's not really worth investing large amounts of time into something that you don't think you'll enjoy. There's the possibility that you're wrong, but there's also a good possibility that you're right (as you probably know what you enjoy more than anyone else). May as well put that same time into something you are relatively certain you will enjoy.

Grand Lodge

I'm happy to have seen a response from Mike, though I didn't personally have any skin in the game or think it was necessary for him to do so.

I'm not sure how viable a discussion of 'what do I do with my character now' actually is. There may be some generalities, like retraining a class level or building through to the prestige class without early entry. I'm not sure. But it seems to me every character is different, there are a number of prestige classes that could have been affected (MT, Arcane Trickster, and EK at least) each would have different options. How far you are down the path to qualification also makes a difference. Maybe a stickied thread in the Advice board would be appropriate. A place where people could post their build and get advice. Or maybe someone who plays has played more prestige classes than I, can make a guide with their suggestions for players at different points a long the route to a PrC on where to go in the future.

I want to be clear I'm interested in the topic, I'm just not sure how viable it is in one thread. Also, I have read this thread since the beginning out of interest in the different logical arguments, but it seems to me that with a clarification from Mike it has accomplished the stated goal of the title.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Michael Brock wrote:
We considered it. We decided not to go with that option. Thanks for all the feedback.

Thank you Mike. Issue officially dropped.


Well that De-escalated quickly!

Dark Archive

BartonOliver wrote:
I want to be clear I'm interested in the topic, I'm just not sure how viable it is in one thread. Also, I have read this thread since the beginning out of interest in the different logical arguments, but it seems to me that with a clarification from Mike it has accomplished the stated goal of the title.

Yeah, this thread is pretty bloated at this point. Probably best to just let it die and take the "how do/can I fix it?" discussion to the Advice forum.

Sovereign Court

Thread goes from this: щ(゚Д゚щ).......(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

to...

This: (/◕ヮ◕)/ \(◕ヮ◕\)
.

Freeeeedoooommmm!!
⊂二二二( ^ω^)二⊃

4/5

Brigg wrote:

Thread goes from this: щ(゚Д゚щ).......(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

to...

This: (/◕ヮ◕)/ \(◕ヮ◕\)
.

Freeeeedoooommmm!!
⊂二二二( ^ω^)二⊃

I wouldn't necessarily go that far. Those guys look too happy for many of the thread's participants. At least there is closure for those folks who will be trashcanning their level 2s.

Sovereign Court

Serisan wrote:
Brigg wrote:
(/◕ヮ◕)/ \(◕ヮ◕\)
I wouldn't necessarily go that far. Those guys look too happy for many of the thread's participants. At least there is closure for those folks who will be trashcanning their level 2s.

Yeah! ^.^!

When the thread got locked and pruned, I took notice that a lot of my posts had been taken out. So, since I didn't have a horse in this particular race, I decided to cease posting. But I've been lurking, simply hoping that closure would come for the masses.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
trik wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
Now that we have acknowledgment, can we get to,"how can I move forward with this character?"
I think that's been addressed a few times. The general consensus is that unless you are willing/able to spend significant prestige on a rebuild, the best option is to throw it in the trash and start up a character you will enjoy. I think everyone can agree that it's not really worth investing large amounts of time into something that you don't think you'll enjoy. There's the possibility that you're wrong, but there's also a good possibility that you're right (as you probably know what you enjoy more than anyone else). May as well put that same time into something you are relatively certain you will enjoy.

For the record, I won't be trashcanning either of my affected characters.

I suspect they'll both end up primarily single classed with a somewhat strange dip class "for flavour". They'll both be a bit weaker than they could have been (weaker than either their prestige class would have been as well as weaker than the single classed version of themselves would have been). But they'll be a little different (which is always fun) and still quite viable at most levels. I'll probably have to be a little careful about playing up with them

1/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
pauljathome wrote:
trik wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
Now that we have acknowledgment, can we get to,"how can I move forward with this character?"
I think that's been addressed a few times. The general consensus is that unless you are willing/able to spend significant prestige on a rebuild, the best option is to throw it in the trash and start up a character you will enjoy. I think everyone can agree that it's not really worth investing large amounts of time into something that you don't think you'll enjoy. There's the possibility that you're wrong, but there's also a good possibility that you're right (as you probably know what you enjoy more than anyone else). May as well put that same time into something you are relatively certain you will enjoy.

For the record, I won't be trashcanning either of my affected characters.

I suspect they'll both end up primarily single classed with a somewhat strange dip class "for flavour". They'll both be a bit weaker than they could have been (weaker than either their prestige class would have been as well as weaker than the single classed version of themselves would have been). But they'll be a little different (which is always fun) and still quite viable at most levels. I'll probably have to be a little careful about playing up with them

That's great! I'm glad you will gain future enjoyment from the time and effort you have already invested in your characters. :)

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville aka thaX

Thank you, Mike!!

Liberty's Edge 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I wanted to thank Tiger Lily and Jiggy for posting some very comprehensive, and well thought out arguments.

Those were pretty much what I asked for.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Acedio wrote:

That's somewhat of a technicality, don't you think? You can certainly narrowly look at the PrC rules and the SLA rules as two completely separate entities, but ultimately they were at one time very closely coupled because of the old FAQ. SLAs were at one time (and technically still are at the moment) a valid method of meeting the prerequisites of a PrC.

The fact of the matter is that with the FAQ, PrCs were more accessible. Now they are not. Period. Saying that this FAQ didn't change PrCs is disingenuous at best.

That's the logic that the character class was strictly built for access by aasimars and tieflings. Which is simply idiotic. The class is still as accessible to plain jane Humans or Elves without freaky powers. That level of access never changed through out it's entire history.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

8 people marked this as a favorite.

/facepalm

Sovereign Court

LazarX wrote:
That's the logic that the character class was strictly built for access by aasimars and tieflings. Which is simply idiotic. The class is still as accessible to plain jane Humans or Elves without freaky powers. That level of access never changed through out it's entire history.

For the love of God, please stop beating a dead horse.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Acedio wrote:
LazarX wrote:
That's the logic that the character class was strictly built for access by aasimars and tieflings. Which is simply idiotic. The class is still as accessible to plain jane Humans or Elves without freaky powers. That level of access never changed through out it's entire history.
For the love of God, please stop beating a dead horse.

That's pretty much what this entire thread has been about since Post 1.

Sovereign Court 5/5 5/5

Acedio wrote:
LazarX wrote:
That's the logic that the character class was strictly built for access by aasimars and tieflings. Which is simply idiotic. The class is still as accessible to plain jane Humans or Elves without freaky powers. That level of access never changed through out it's entire history.
For the love of God, please stop beating a dead horse.

I AM SORRY THAT YOUR HORSE HAS DIED, ACEDIO!

comforting tentacle embrace

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

4 people marked this as a favorite.
LazarX wrote:
Acedio wrote:
LazarX wrote:
That's the logic that the character class was strictly built for access by aasimars and tieflings. Which is simply idiotic. The class is still as accessible to plain jane Humans or Elves without freaky powers. That level of access never changed through out it's entire history.
For the love of God, please stop beating a dead horse.
That's pretty much what this entire thread has been about since Post 1.

Actually, the thread got unlocked due to the quality of conversation, some good dialogue happened, closure was achieved, and people were ready to let it go and move on.

But I think that all happened while you weren't participating in the thread, so I guess you missed it.

Dark Archive

No big deal, just get a new horse from the horse factory when the next FAQ comes!

Sovereign Court 5/5 5/5

HORSE FACTORY? THAT SOUNDS MAGICAL!

I WISH THERE WAS A CLASS FACTORY WHERE I COULD BE ASSIGNED MY DESTINY. UNFORTUNATELY MY DESIGNER IS TOO INDECISIVE AND THIS CURRENT FORM IS ALL HE CAN AFFORD TO GIVE ME RIGHT NOW.

Grand Lodge

CORE BLOB #1 wrote:

HORSE FACTORY? THAT SOUNDS MAGICAL!

I WISH THERE WAS A CLASS FACTORY WHERE I COULD BE ASSIGNED MY DESTINY. UNFORTUNATELY MY DESIGNER IS TOO INDECISIVE AND THIS CURRENT FORM IS ALL HE CAN AFFORD TO GIVE ME RIGHT NOW.

Count your blessings. Blobs still have potential.

Sczarni

Dimitri, Varisian Explorer wrote:
CORE BLOB #1 wrote:

HORSE FACTORY? THAT SOUNDS MAGICAL!

I WISH THERE WAS A CLASS FACTORY WHERE I COULD BE ASSIGNED MY DESTINY. UNFORTUNATELY MY DESIGNER IS TOO INDECISIVE AND THIS CURRENT FORM IS ALL HE CAN AFFORD TO GIVE ME RIGHT NOW.

Count your blessings. Blobs still have potential.

Amen.

Grand Lodge

Hedric wrote:
Dimitri, Varisian Explorer wrote:
CORE BLOB #1 wrote:

HORSE FACTORY? THAT SOUNDS MAGICAL!

I WISH THERE WAS A CLASS FACTORY WHERE I COULD BE ASSIGNED MY DESTINY. UNFORTUNATELY MY DESIGNER IS TOO INDECISIVE AND THIS CURRENT FORM IS ALL HE CAN AFFORD TO GIVE ME RIGHT NOW.

Count your blessings. Blobs still have potential.
Amen.

Yep.

Liberty's Edge

J.J., Agent of the Decemvirate wrote:
Hedric wrote:
Dimitri, Varisian Explorer wrote:
CORE BLOB #1 wrote:

HORSE FACTORY? THAT SOUNDS MAGICAL!

I WISH THERE WAS A CLASS FACTORY WHERE I COULD BE ASSIGNED MY DESTINY. UNFORTUNATELY MY DESIGNER IS TOO INDECISIVE AND THIS CURRENT FORM IS ALL HE CAN AFFORD TO GIVE ME RIGHT NOW.

Count your blessings. Blobs still have potential.
Amen.
Yep.

Seriously, you got the best kind of indecisiveness.

Grand Lodge

Mical wrote:
J.J., Agent of the Decemvirate wrote:
Hedric wrote:
Dimitri, Varisian Explorer wrote:
CORE BLOB #1 wrote:

HORSE FACTORY? THAT SOUNDS MAGICAL!

I WISH THERE WAS A CLASS FACTORY WHERE I COULD BE ASSIGNED MY DESTINY. UNFORTUNATELY MY DESIGNER IS TOO INDECISIVE AND THIS CURRENT FORM IS ALL HE CAN AFFORD TO GIVE ME RIGHT NOW.

Count your blessings. Blobs still have potential.
Amen.
Yep.
Seriously, you got the best kind of indecisiveness.

What they said.

Dark Archive

CORE BLOB #1 wrote:

HORSE FACTORY? THAT SOUNDS MAGICAL!

I WISH THERE WAS A CLASS FACTORY WHERE I COULD BE ASSIGNED MY DESTINY. UNFORTUNATELY MY DESIGNER IS TOO INDECISIVE AND THIS CURRENT FORM IS ALL HE CAN AFFORD TO GIVE ME RIGHT NOW.

It's ok. Don't be sad. Someday you'll be assigned your dream job.

Sovereign Court 5/5 5/5

THEN I WILL HAVE SKIN TO CALL MY OWN...

surreptitiously stuffs a handful of flesh-colored 'rags' into the nearby trash can

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/55/55/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Professor Herp wrote:
No big deal, just get a new horse from the horse factory when the next FAQ comes!

AHEM

Sovereign Court

Pardon me whilst I go ROFL.
*Leaves*
*ROFLs*

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dimitri, Varisian Explorer wrote:
CORE BLOB #1 wrote:

HORSE FACTORY? THAT SOUNDS MAGICAL!

I WISH THERE WAS A CLASS FACTORY WHERE I COULD BE ASSIGNED MY DESTINY. UNFORTUNATELY MY DESIGNER IS TOO INDECISIVE AND THIS CURRENT FORM IS ALL HE CAN AFFORD TO GIVE ME RIGHT NOW.

Count your blessings. Blobs still have potential.

Unlike Wiz3/Clr3 Mystic Theurges >.>

Sovereign Court 5/5 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Akari Sayuri "Tiger Lily" wrote:
Dimitri, Varisian Explorer wrote:
CORE BLOB #1 wrote:

HORSE FACTORY? THAT SOUNDS MAGICAL!

I WISH THERE WAS A CLASS FACTORY WHERE I COULD BE ASSIGNED MY DESTINY. UNFORTUNATELY MY DESIGNER IS TOO INDECISIVE AND THIS CURRENT FORM IS ALL HE CAN AFFORD TO GIVE ME RIGHT NOW.

Count your blessings. Blobs still have potential.
Unlike Wiz3/Clr3 Mystic Theurges >.>

YOU MEAN SOME PEOPLE HAVE THREE CLASSES!? I WOULD BE HAPPY WITH JUST ONE...


1 person marked this as a favorite.
CORE BLOB #1 wrote:
YOU MEAN SOME PEOPLE HAVE THREE CLASSES!? I WOULD BE HAPPY WITH JUST ONE...

GESTALT OR GTFO NOOB

Sovereign Court 5/5 5/5

begins sobbing and shambles away


its ok im nnot cool ether

Dark Archive

Flutter wrote:
Professor Herp wrote:
No big deal, just get a new horse from the horse factory when the next FAQ comes!
AHEM

Hey man, don't look at me, I'm just a guy who can't be assed to raise his own horses!

Teleports away

2/5

Michael Brock wrote:
Akari Sayuri "Tiger Lily" wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
Consider though, that if one of you do this, and I present it, and Mike either responds similarly or not at all, then the discussion should probably turn towards "Whats the best current options for my character?" rather than, "He's ruined I want extended grandfathering or a rebuild!"
I of course can't speak for everyone, but my stance is just that I want some kind of acknowledgement that the extended grandfathering proposal has been considered. They have made a few posts, but none have addressed that aspect. It could just be one word, No, and I'll drop it at that (I won't be very happy about the matter, but that's true anyway, and at least I'll drop it).
We considered it. We decided not to go with that option. Thanks for all the feedback.

Would it be possible to announce future changes like this with a blog post, like the assimar/tiefling grandfathering post, so that it is easy to find the official announcement?

Silver Crusade

Atragon wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Akari Sayuri "Tiger Lily" wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
Consider though, that if one of you do this, and I present it, and Mike either responds similarly or not at all, then the discussion should probably turn towards "Whats the best current options for my character?" rather than, "He's ruined I want extended grandfathering or a rebuild!"
I of course can't speak for everyone, but my stance is just that I want some kind of acknowledgement that the extended grandfathering proposal has been considered. They have made a few posts, but none have addressed that aspect. It could just be one word, No, and I'll drop it at that (I won't be very happy about the matter, but that's true anyway, and at least I'll drop it).
We considered it. We decided not to go with that option. Thanks for all the feedback.
Would it be possible to announce future changes like this with a blog post, like the assimar/tiefling grandfathering post, so that it is easy to find the official announcement?

If you are asking them to post the ruling in a forum post, they did post about the SLAs here. If you are asking for advanced warning that will not happen due to their stated reasons here, due to abuse.

Liberty's Edge

I haven't read the entire thread. If this is a duplicate, my apologies.

If something seems too good to be true, it likely is. Making use of it at be within the rules, but if too many people look askance at it and it's gonna be changed. This thread, at least in the early parts I read, illustrate this repeatedly. For MT, for Aasamars, for speed running mods. It may be within the rules, but don't be shocked when it is removed or changed. Actions have consequences.

I totally appreciate people stating that they played within the rules and got screwed. When you see exploitive options, they will be changed. If you rely upon them as a new player, i feel for you. If you give people advice to take advantage of exploits, you're setting them up for disappointment. If you so it as an experienced player, you took a risk. If it doesn't seem like it, use it as an opportunity to adjust your approach to organized play.

I'm not being dismissive. There is a bit of "you got what you deserved Shadenfreunde in my post, but please take it for the constructive input contained. I don't know how to communicate this without it.

4/5

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Howie23 wrote:
I haven't read the entire thread.

Doing so would have prevented your unfounded comment.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

7 people marked this as a favorite.
Howie23 wrote:
I haven't read the entire thread. If this is a duplicate, my apologies.

Apology not accepted.

5/5

Howie23 wrote:

I haven't read the entire thread. If this is a duplicate, my apologies.

If something seems too good to be true, it likely is. Making use of it at be within the rules, but if too many people look askance at it and it's gonna be changed. This thread, at least in the early parts I read, illustrate this repeatedly. For MT, for Aasamars, for speed running mods. It may be within the rules, but don't be shocked when it is removed or changed. Actions have consequences.

I totally appreciate people stating that they played within the rules and got screwed. When you see exploitive options, they will be changed. If you rely upon them as a new player, i feel for you. If you give people advice to take advantage of exploits, you're setting them up for disappointment. If you so it as an experienced player, you took a risk. If it doesn't seem like it, use it as an opportunity to adjust your approach to organized play.

I'm not being dismissive. There is a bit of "you got what you deserved Shadenfreunde in my post, but please take it for the constructive input contained. I don't know how to communicate this without it.

If you had actually read the thread you might have avoided making a post quite this uninformed. In fact you could have avoided it if you had managed to stick it out until post 15 of the first page where Jiggy set out the history of the issue.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Captain aka TwilightKnight

I think what Howie23 was trying to say is similar to what I've heard some other say. That even though the SLA exception was legal, some feel it was clearly an exploitative way to use the rules to your benefit and that something that glaringly obvious would most likely be reversed or at least changed in the future. By taking advantage of said "loophole" you knowingly set yourself up for a future "screwing" and that demanding an accommodation is disingenuous.

Not making a value statement nor agreeing/disagreeing with that position, just relaying what I understand the position to be. Make you own decision if it has merit or not. YMMV

5/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Bob Jonquet wrote:

I think what Howie23 was trying to say is similar to what I've heard some other say. That even though the SLA exception was legal, some feel it was clearly an exploitative way to use the rules to your benefit and that something that glaringly obvious would most likely be reversed or at least changed in the future. By taking advantage of said "loophole" you knowingly set yourself up for a future "screwing" and that demanding an accommodation is disingenuous.

Not making a value statement nor agreeing/disagreeing with that position, just relaying what I understand the position to be. Make you own decision if it has merit or not. YMMV

Such a view requires you to wilfully ignore the explicit statement from the PDT that this was something they were aware of and happy with and *might* revisit if it proved to be overpowering.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Bob Jonquet wrote:

I think what Howie23 was trying to say is similar to what I've heard some other say. That even though the SLA exception was legal, some feel it was clearly an exploitative way to use the rules to your benefit and that something that glaringly obvious would most likely be reversed or at least changed in the future. By taking advantage of said "loophole" you knowingly set yourself up for a future "screwing" and that demanding an accommodation is disingenuous.

Not making a value statement nor agreeing/disagreeing with that position, just relaying what I understand the position to be. Make you own decision if it has merit or not. YMMV

Yes, we all know that's what he meant. That's the whole reason why his post is so offensively absurd.

If someone made a character based on the original SLA FAQ just a couple of months after the original FAQ came out and it got reversed, then perhaps a little bit of the above sentiment would be justified. But it was left alone for a year and a half.

At some point, it stops being reasonable to describe the building of PCs based on that FAQ as "exploitative" or "glaringly obvious that it would most likely be reversed". At some point, the idea that a player "should have seen it coming" stops being a wise caution and starts being petty, combative, self-important nonsense.

We can't determine exactly when that point was, but it definitely came and went sometime in the last year and a half.

And even so, the people on the receiving end of said nonsense managed to put it aside long enough to have a reasonable discussion that concluded amicably. The propagators of said nonsense, on the other hand, keep turning the thread toward the negative. That's another element to the sour taste left by Howie's comment: closure and good feelings were had, and then wham.

3/5

Talonhawke wrote:
To reiterate no one is asking for a grace period. None at all, people are asking for extended grandfathering but not for a grace period.

Actually I did. In the first and/or second thread in the subject, before I had to take a break from posting on the subject for the good of my blood pressure. Although I'd settle for grandfathering that actually helped my character.

_
glass.

(* Well, not "asked for", because I don't think they are likely to reverse their stated position - nor to I necessarily think they should. But I expressed the opinion that they should have given one in the first place.)

Sovereign Court

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Can we close this? People are just going to keep coming in with their 2 cents and start this BS all over again.

501 to 550 of 581 << first < prev | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society / A request for clarification from management wrt the SLA FAQ change All Messageboards