How to leave a group.


Advice

Lantern Lodge

I want to play one way, but I play another way to appease other players. However, I'm labeled as a "power gamer", even though I play with this group as sub-optimal classes/combat styles. Consistently, other players have been pushing for 5e, since I "won't be able to break the game". We just made characters for a 5e game, and since I was completely ignorant on the rules, had to ask others for the location of said rules in the rule book (I wanted to make a hermit barbarian who throws stuff at enemies, and collects poison from animals to use. Hence I asked for the location of rules for thrown weapons, improvised weapons, poison, TWF, shields, etc...). Each question was met with "stop trying to break the game".

(Frustrated, I went to the library, found a 5e book, and began to search it for ways to break it. I left within 2 hours, satisfied that I had found several ways to do so, without even having to look at spells...)

Obviously, even though I tried, this group isn't the group for me.

The question now is: How do I go about leaving this group of friends behind? Should I show up and explain why I'm leaving? Should I just text my GM and then never show? Do I just not say anything and leave without a trace?

How do you leave your groups of friends behind because of jerkish behavior from a couple of them, and different play styles?


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Oh, wow, someone who actually knows what to do, and is asking how! I like it! (Not your situation, that sucks, but your approach.)

I think it depends entirely on how close you are to them out of game. So...real life friends first and gamers second, buddies but not really good friends but you'll hang outside of gaming, or "I don't know their last names"?


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Text or call the GM and let him know you're planning on leaving, and then show up to let the players know. That's the most mature way to handle it. I would tell them that your playstyle doesn't fit with theirs, and it'd be more fun for everyone if you found a group more accepting of optimization. Either they'll handle it maturely too and wish you luck in finding a different group, or they won't, but you'll have done the right thing.


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

I dont see any need to show up, personally. If you see some of them outside of gaming, I'd speak to them individually and explain you werent enjoying the direction it was going. I wouldnt consider it rude if you only see them at game-time though if you just let one of them (presumably the DM) know.

I think turning up to say you're leaving just invites trouble - I'd feel obligated to respond in some way (since you'd taken the trouble to turn up without intending to play) but I dont know that anything I said would be helpful. Caught off guard like that, it might just turn into a bunch of them ganging up on you. If it turns out pleasant and polite - it would have been the same over the phone or via email.

Lantern Lodge

Steve Geddes wrote:
I think turning up to say you're leaving just invites trouble - I'd feel obligated to respond in some way (since you'd taken the trouble to turn up without intending to play) but I dont know that anything I said would be helpful. Caught off guard like that, it might just turn into a bunch of them ganging up on you. If it turns out pleasant and polite - it would have been the same over the phone or via email.

Those are some really good points. Now that you mention it, I have that feeling of going in and pointing out the flaws of their logic. But I really should just leave them in ignorance, they'll have more fun that way. I guess I also feel like trying to prevent them from thinking that I'm leaving because I can't power game in 5e (as if), even though I wasn't power gaming to begin with (at least not in that group).

Only two of them (out of 6) I'm friends with outside of DnD. So maybe a message is the best way to go.


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If you're not friends outside of the game, it's not worth an in person visit. Tell your actual friend in person away from everyone else, mass text the rest.


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber
FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
I think turning up to say you're leaving just invites trouble - I'd feel obligated to respond in some way (since you'd taken the trouble to turn up without intending to play) but I dont know that anything I said would be helpful. Caught off guard like that, it might just turn into a bunch of them ganging up on you. If it turns out pleasant and polite - it would have been the same over the phone or via email.

Those are some really good points. Now that you mention it, I have that feeling of going in and pointing out the flaws of their logic. But I really should just leave them in ignorance, they'll have more fun that way. I guess I also feel like trying to prevent them from thinking that I'm leaving because I can't power game in 5e (as if), even though I wasn't power gaming to begin with (at least not in that group).

Only two of them (out of 6) I'm friends with outside of DnD. So maybe a message is the best way to go.

If your plan is to argue your position, I think you're bound to be disappointed (and probably just get more irritated). There's a lot to be said for seeking the moral high ground, but one consequence is you have to give up on a few debates with the other guy getting the last word.

If you leave on the grounds that the group is not for you, it's barely possible they'll feel some regret for perhaps not being as accomodating as they could be. If you leave after a passionate discussion about what "powergaming" is, I suspect they'll consider their suspicions confirmed.

I would put more time into the two you know outside the group - those are the relationships that matter. Personally, I'd speak to them individually.


FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:

I want to play one way, but I play another way to appease other players. However, I'm labeled as a "power gamer", even though I play with this group as sub-optimal classes/combat styles. Consistently, other players have been pushing for 5e, since I "won't be able to break the game". We just made characters for a 5e game, and since I was completely ignorant on the rules, had to ask others for the location of said rules in the rule book (I wanted to make a hermit barbarian who throws stuff at enemies, and collects poison from animals to use. Hence I asked for the location of rules for thrown weapons, improvised weapons, poison, TWF, shields, etc...). Each question was met with "stop trying to break the game".

(Frustrated, I went to the library, found a 5e book, and began to search it for ways to break it. I left within 2 hours, satisfied that I had found several ways to do so, without even having to look at spells...)

Obviously, even though I tried, this group isn't the group for me.

The question now is: How do I go about leaving this group of friends behind? Should I show up and explain why I'm leaving? Should I just text my GM and then never show? Do I just not say anything and leave without a trace?

How do you leave your groups of friends behind because of jerkish behavior from a couple of them, and different play styles?

The Wraithstrike says that good friends don't always make good gaming partners and "power gaming" is subjective. I would just explain that you don't have the same playstyle as them.

Now many people think their playstyle is the default correct one, but maybe your friends can realize that there is not "one correct way" to play the game.

If not then you might need to explain it to them using the various degrees in "power" demonstrated on this very site.


thegreenteagamer wrote:
If you're not friends outside of the game, it's not worth an in person visit. Tell your actual friend in person away from everyone else, mass text the rest.

This, and I agree with Steve that showing just to say "I am not gaming with you guys..", just looks bad. I would notify the GM, and my real friends.

PS: Notifying the GM is just out of courtesy. If he turns into a jerk feel free to end the conversation, if there is one.


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"I'm out. Our play styles are too different, i'm going to try to find a more compatible group. Happy gaming"

and then DO NOT ANSWER the emails if they look even the least bit recriminating. Just hit delete without opening them.

Lantern Lodge

@Steve Geddes
I failed to communicate that for me, acknowledging how I feel doesn't necessarily mean that's what I plan to do. I -want- to prove something, but from what you said, I recognized I had that feeling, and the folly of it O.o.

Thanks to everyone too. The group I'm currently DMing is falling apart in a month (people graduating >.<, who would take 30k from GM to relocate their family to a 60k a year job anyways? Sheesh O.o), so leaving this one could mean no DnD in 5 weeks.

I might have to resort to online play O.o, small college towns kinda suck sometimes!


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber
FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:

@Steve Geddes

I failed to communicate that for me, acknowledging how I feel doesn't necessarily mean that's what I plan to do. I -want- to prove something, but from what you said, I recognized I had that feeling, and the folly of it O.o.

Ah, I misunderstood.

In that case - I agree. :)


FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:

@Steve Geddes

I failed to communicate that for me, acknowledging how I feel doesn't necessarily mean that's what I plan to do. I -want- to prove something, but from what you said, I recognized I had that feeling, and the folly of it O.o.

Thanks to everyone too. The group I'm currently DMing is falling apart in a month (people graduating >.<, who would take 30k from GM to relocate their family to a 60k a year job anyways? Sheesh O.o), so leaving this one could mean no DnD in 5 weeks.

I might have to resort to online play O.o, small college towns kinda suck sometimes!

Online gaming is not bad as long as you have a decent headset. I dont even look for local gamers anymore, but I must admit if I was it would likely take me 6 months to find a group.

Roll20 FTW :)

Lantern Lodge

wraithstrike wrote:
FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:

@Steve Geddes

I failed to communicate that for me, acknowledging how I feel doesn't necessarily mean that's what I plan to do. I -want- to prove something, but from what you said, I recognized I had that feeling, and the folly of it O.o.

Thanks to everyone too. The group I'm currently DMing is falling apart in a month (people graduating >.<, who would take 30k from GM to relocate their family to a 60k a year job anyways? Sheesh O.o), so leaving this one could mean no DnD in 5 weeks.

I might have to resort to online play O.o, small college towns kinda suck sometimes!

Online gaming is not bad as long as you have a decent headset. I dont even look for local gamers anymore, but I must admit if I was it would likely take me 6 months to find a group.

Roll20 FTW :)

I'm looking at Roll20 right now. I think I'll DM an online group first, since it seems that there's always a demand for more DM's O.o

Grand Lodge

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FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:

@Steve Geddes

I failed to communicate that for me, acknowledging how I feel doesn't necessarily mean that's what I plan to do. I -want- to prove something, but from what you said, I recognized I had that feeling, and the folly of it O.o.

Thanks to everyone too. The group I'm currently DMing is falling apart in a month (people graduating >.<, who would take 30k from GM to relocate their family to a 60k a year job anyways? Sheesh O.o), so leaving this one could mean no DnD in 5 weeks.

I might have to resort to online play O.o, small college towns kinda suck sometimes!

Online gaming is not bad as long as you have a decent headset. I dont even look for local gamers anymore, but I must admit if I was it would likely take me 6 months to find a group.

Roll20 FTW :)

I'm looking at Roll20 right now. I think I'll DM an online group first, since it seems that there's always a demand for more DM's O.o

You would be correct about how one-sided the situation is for DMs, even with online as an option. You'll likely have to go through a few players before you get a consistent group that doesn't flake out repeatedly, but you will find them after 3-5 sessions.


FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:

Those are some really good points. Now that you mention it, I have that feeling of going in and pointing out the flaws of their logic. But I really should just leave them in ignorance,they'll have more fun that way. I guess I also feel like trying to prevent them from thinking that I'm leaving because I can't power game in 5e (as if), even though I wasn't power gaming to begin with (at least not in that group).

Only two of them (out of 6) I'm friends with outside of DnD. So maybe a message is the best way to go.

I would send a polite thank you, and move on.

Doing the above will convince them that you're the antisocial powergamer they seem to think you are. It's a bad move. Also, it's going to come across as rude and condescending.

This is true even if you do not mean to be. I'm not pointing this out to be mean at all, by the way.

A polite note with a thank-you attached is the way to go.


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Do the adult thing. Walk in 20 minutes late so everything is set up already and then flip the table and walk out as you pop your collar.


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Can you give me these peoples names and addresses so I can hunt them down and debate with anyone stupid enough to think there is a system that prevents power gaming? If it exists someone can find a loophole in it.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber
chaoseffect wrote:
Do the adult thing. Walk in 20 minutes late so everything is set up already and then flip the table and walk out as you pop your collar.

I chuckled.


From what I saw from 5e spells, magic is just as broken?

For example, wish was buffed from 3.5/pathfinder

Grand Lodge

Kind of a side note, but im with goddity, i don't think there is an unbreakable system.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

"I'm out. Our play styles are too different, i'm going to try to find a more compatible group. Happy gaming"

and then DO NOT ANSWER the emails if they look even the least bit recriminating. Just hit delete without opening them.

Let me break down why this is important.

1) Be clear you're leaving.

2) Do. not. blame. anyone. Don't accuse them of stormwinding, playing wrong, being jerks, stealing your cheetos.. No. blame. Anywhere.

3) Wish them well. They are still human beings. Playing a game a different way doesn't make them a terrible person. They're still people. If you HAVE to hurt people it should be for a better reason than to make yourself feel better.


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You mention in your original post reasons the other players had for disliking your play style ('power gaming') but you never mention at all how the experience was for you when you played it. If you had fun, there might be a better option than leaving.

(If you really didn't, then you have good advice on how to do so).

I'm betting from what you wrote that you are really do love the mechanics, making a concept work (even a sub-optimal one to its best potential) and that you get a whole lot of joy out of playing with the numbers of a system. There isn't anything wrong with that, but certainly for others who don't it can seem to be 'power gaming. I don't know if you also enjoy the less numbers based aspects of roleplaying games, the parts that are more like drama club than math club, but if you do find that somewhat fun, then with this simply have someone else make the mechanical character creation and advancement choices and play the character they build.

Obviously this will be less fun for you, as it will remove something that you very much enjoy doing. It may well still be fun even if less fun, and a way to keep the social connections with your friends active. Obviously you will have to decide on the net positives, but I wanted to share the option.

In any event, I do suggest that especially with your close friends in the group and even the others if you can arrange it, make an extra effort to include them in other social activities even if it is just going out for a beer. Having friends is important.


Goddity wrote:
Can you give me these peoples names and addresses so I can hunt them down and debate with anyone stupid enough to think there is a system that prevents power gaming? If it exists someone can find a loophole in it.

There's one...I can't remember the name of it, it's an Indy game, and I think it involved puppet people for the fluff, but the "crunch" was...interesting, and something I'd try If I couldn't find my dice (or was really blitzed and didn't want to do math, or whatever).

First off, there's no classes, attributes, etc. Basically the system was all freeform narrative. The GM takes alternating turns with the players describing actions, wherein anything the players says he does, his character does, but the caveat is that the players cannot declare if it succeds or not, only the GM can, and it's pretty much all on if the GM thinks it'd work or not. He doesn't say "I attack", "You miss", but more a "with a backwards spin I come at him with my blade aimed squarely at his throat", "and, having battled against you before, he knows to duck at the beginning of your spin, backflipping as his foot catches you in the chin, sending you flying towards the pit of spikes." It kinda goes on from there, with the players able to think up any responses they can...

Admittedly, it takes a totally different kind of player to get into that kind of game (I don't think I could do it sober, that's for sure), but methinks it's may be the only one I've heard of you cannot break.

Probably because it's not so much a game as collaborative storytelling.

Lantern Lodge

I can break it.

Bribe the GM.

Done :)

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

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Flip the table and walk out like a boss.

Spoiler:
j/k don't do that


thegreenteagamer wrote:


There's one...I can't remember the name of it, it's an Indy game, and I think it involved puppet people for the fluff, but the "crunch" was...interesting, and something I'd try If I couldn't find my dice (or was really blitzed and didn't want to do math, or whatever).

First off, there's no classes, attributes, etc. Basically the system was all freeform narrative. The GM takes alternating turns with the players describing actions, wherein anything the players says he does, his character does, but the caveat is that the players cannot declare if it succeds or not, only the GM can, and it's pretty much all on if the GM thinks it'd work or not. He doesn't say "I attack", "You miss", but more a "with a backwards spin I come at him with my blade aimed squarely at his throat", "and, having battled against you before, he knows to duck at the beginning of your spin, backflipping as his foot catches you in the chin, sending you flying towards the pit of spikes." It kinda goes on from there, with the players able to think up any responses they can...

Admittedly, it takes a totally different kind of player to get into that kind of game (I don't think I could do it sober, that's for sure), but methinks it's may be the only one I've heard of you cannot break.

Probably because it's not so much a game as collaborative storytelling.

Chuubo's Marvelous Wish-Granting Engine?

Lantern Lodge

But, just so everyone knows, I texted the DM, who then called (because he's a good DM) and wanted to make sure I was leaving on good terms...

I didn't really have the heart to tell him exactly why, since after I left he apparently got frustrated with the other players on my behalf.

I'm still leaving the group. Sure, the DM spoke on my behalf, but the other players are still going to have the same attitude, even though I was the one adjusting their playstyle to match what the group wanted. So, I'm just going off to find a different group (somewhere, out there...).

Thanks for the advice guys!


thegreenteagamer wrote:
Goddity wrote:
Can you give me these peoples names and addresses so I can hunt them down and debate with anyone stupid enough to think there is a system that prevents power gaming? If it exists someone can find a loophole in it.

There's one...I can't remember the name of it, it's an Indy game, and I think it involved puppet people for the fluff, but the "crunch" was...interesting, and something I'd try If I couldn't find my dice (or was really blitzed and didn't want to do math, or whatever).

First off, there's no classes, attributes, etc. Basically the system was all freeform narrative. The GM takes alternating turns with the players describing actions, wherein anything the players says he does, his character does, but the caveat is that the players cannot declare if it succeds or not, only the GM can, and it's pretty much all on if the GM thinks it'd work or not. He doesn't say "I attack", "You miss", but more a "with a backwards spin I come at him with my blade aimed squarely at his throat", "and, having battled against you before, he knows to duck at the beginning of your spin, backflipping as his foot catches you in the chin, sending you flying towards the pit of spikes." It kinda goes on from there, with the players able to think up any responses they can...

Admittedly, it takes a totally different kind of player to get into that kind of game (I don't think I could do it sober, that's for sure), but methinks it's may be the only one I've heard of you cannot break.

Probably because it's not so much a game as collaborative storytelling.

pretty sure you are talking about the Amber rpg.

Grand Lodge

D4rtagnan wrote:
thegreenteagamer wrote:
Goddity wrote:
Can you give me these peoples names and addresses so I can hunt them down and debate with anyone stupid enough to think there is a system that prevents power gaming? If it exists someone can find a loophole in it.

There's one...I can't remember the name of it, it's an Indy game, and I think it involved puppet people for the fluff, but the "crunch" was...interesting, and something I'd try If I couldn't find my dice (or was really blitzed and didn't want to do math, or whatever).

First off, there's no classes, attributes, etc. Basically the system was all freeform narrative. The GM takes alternating turns with the players describing actions, wherein anything the players says he does, his character does, but the caveat is that the players cannot declare if it succeds or not, only the GM can, and it's pretty much all on if the GM thinks it'd work or not. He doesn't say "I attack", "You miss", but more a "with a backwards spin I come at him with my blade aimed squarely at his throat", "and, having battled against you before, he knows to duck at the beginning of your spin, backflipping as his foot catches you in the chin, sending you flying towards the pit of spikes." It kinda goes on from there, with the players able to think up any responses they can...

Admittedly, it takes a totally different kind of player to get into that kind of game (I don't think I could do it sober, that's for sure), but methinks it's may be the only one I've heard of you cannot break.

Probably because it's not so much a game as collaborative storytelling.

pretty sure you are talking about the Amber rpg.

I thought of that, but, while Amber is diceless, there are still stats for comparison purposes.

Maybe it was a variant of Toon, where you actually are running Looney Tunes PCs?

Lantern Lodge

It might called Role Playing

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