| Renegadeshepherd |
Hi all. Im wondering if there is any literature at all on what deities have the most power, or for that matter what pantheons have the most power. Pathfinderwiki offers some info on classifying most deities as major, minor, demi, etc deity but this is not enough for me and my needs.
Basically im looking to have a campaign where two deities will possess a willing living person to do battle with each other (probably two PCs) in a Supernatural or DS9 fashion. But I need two deities that are relatively on par with each other. For example, I personally believe that Asmodeous is the single strongest deity in the game because of his history and that he was one of the two "Primordial" deities but I got nothing to prove this.
Anything at all would be helpful. even an educated guess backed up by some evidence is welcome. And if you think that a deity may not necessarily be particularly powerful but perhaps gives extraordinary levels of power to their servants that would also be useful.
| chbgraphicarts |
You could always just come up with your own deities if you're not familiar with them.
As far as opposing forces go, there are several real-world mythological groups that are represented in Pathfinder:
The Azata vs the Divs (Yazatas and Daevas respectively in Zoroastrianism)
The Devas vs the Asuras (Devas are represented by the Deva-type Angels: Astral Deva, Monadic Deva, and Movanic Deva)
---
Depending on how closely Pathfinder follows the Cthulhu Mythos, then the Elder Gods oppose the Outer Gods and Great Old Ones.
Yog Soth-oth is basically the most powerful of the Outer Gods, existing outside of the Universe itself and being somehow intrinsically connected to it.
Nyarlathotep, a Great Old One, is the High Priest of the Outer God Azathoth, and could be considered technically as powerful as Cthulhu (CR30).
Nyarlahothep loves causing madness and insanity (instead of just rampant destruction like other Great Old Ones), and something like this would be up his ally.
A deity like Mitra (from the Conan series, which is technically part of the Cthulhu Mythos by both Howard and Lovecraft being friends and making allusions to each others' characters in their works), would be a good opposition to Nyarlathotep, then.
If Nyarlathotep has created a series of avatars of himself to cause chaos, the god Mitras could create beings (your players' Party), to oppose and destroy these avatars.
| Rennaivx |
All the gods, or at least the 20 core deities, are, I believe, considered to be approximately equal in power, and since they're fighting through representatives, the god's own power may not be as important, just what they're able to channel through their proxy. Instead of choosing which deity's more powerful, maybe look at it as pitting opposing ideologies against each other?
Maybe Desna vs. Lamashtu in sort of a "taking back the night" showdown, since Desna is the goddess of the stars and dreams and Lamashtu specializes in nightmares.
Or Shelyn vs. Zon-Kuthon, the sibling rivalry showdown to end them all.
It is canon, though, that everyone works to keep Pharasma on their good side - she is the one who controls whether the spirits of each god's faithful end up in the correct place, after all. No one wants to threaten that. :)
| Haladir |
Somewhere on the "Ask James Jacobs" thread,he talked about this. From a mortal's perspective there are three tiers of divine beings that grant spells to worshipers: Deities, demigods, and quasi-deities. Deities grant 5 domains, demigods 4, quasi-deities 3.
Deities don't have stats. From a mortal perspective they are practically limitless in power, and their relative strength to each other is immaterial.
That said, the older a deity, the greater its power and influence.
The oldest gods in Golarion are said to be Pharasma, Desna, Sarenrae, Asmodeus, and Rovagug. They have all been around since pretty much the beginning.
feytharn
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I wouldn't use true deities at all - all of their feuds are far older then mankind and your players might question why they would now chose to bring their feud into open battle in this fashion. Arch Devils, empyrial lords, demon princes etc. would be my choice. The difference between their power and that of a god to the mere mortal is inconsequential. They are easier to compare in their power level and their means (in the game of immortal creatures) are more limited, which might explain their unorthodox method of doing battle by possessed mortals.
| Bacon666 |
For pf, not to my knowledge...
In 3.5 (3.0?) The book deities and demigods gave the gods classes abd levels...
But I does depend on what you mean by power... In my csmpaigns gods are powered by beliefs... Every body believes that disease exists, so deities of disease share much power... A minor deity can be very powerfull if it monopolized an area of belief...
| chbgraphicarts |
By definition, a god's power is infinite.
Extremely few religions actually have infinitely powerful gods - the vast majority have extremely-powerful deities, yes, but really the Abrahamic faiths and Zoroastrianism are the only ones to claim an omnipotent deity.
Deities in Pathfinder are no exception - while they are almost inconceivably more powerful than even the most-powerful mortals, they are by no means infinitely-powerful. The very fact that gods can stand in opposition to other gods just highlights this fact.
Cao Phen
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Or Shelyn vs. Zon-Kuthon, the sibling rivalry showdown to end them all.
I think it is more towards she wants him back to his old self. She is willing to defend herself and persevere through the pain of losing her brother to the chaos, and is hoping that one day, however long that day will take, will have her brother sane again and sit next to her in Nirvana.
I think she has some kind of brother complex or something.
| The NPC |
If oldest is strongest, The Book of the Damned Vol I, tells the tale of Ihys and Asmodeus, the 2 first creatures in existence. Asmodeus was the first, Ihys the second. All other gods came afterwards. That, at least, is how Book of the Damned tells it :)
-Nearyn
Assuming that is an accurate account.
| Earl of the Malebolge |
My lord and master Asmodeus is the eldest god, therefore he is the strongest!
- Earl of Malebolge
That being said,pathfinder does not bring this up because the wars between gods are in the background of most published materials. What can be noted is that Pharasma has the most important role in the pathfinder universe, yet does not act out against other deities except those that create undead, and the gods respect her back.
If you want to run it at home to be different, I highly recommend it. One of my favorite motifs of rpg's is the idea of holy wars/crusades.
(hopefully Asmodeus does not see this blasphemy as I post it.)
| Earl of the Malebolge |
Nearyn wrote:Assuming that is an accurate account.If oldest is strongest, The Book of the Damned Vol I, tells the tale of Ihys and Asmodeus, the 2 first creatures in existence. Asmodeus was the first, Ihys the second. All other gods came afterwards. That, at least, is how Book of the Damned tells it :)
-Nearyn
How dare you utter such vile words!!! Smite this heretic!
| The NPC |
The NPC wrote:How dare you utter such vile words!!! Smite this heretic!Nearyn wrote:Assuming that is an accurate account.If oldest is strongest, The Book of the Damned Vol I, tells the tale of Ihys and Asmodeus, the 2 first creatures in existence. Asmodeus was the first, Ihys the second. All other gods came afterwards. That, at least, is how Book of the Damned tells it :)
-Nearyn
Hey hey hey, hey. I'm and infidel not a heretic. Thank you.
| Earl of the Malebolge |
Earl of the Malebolge wrote:Hey hey hey, hey. I'm and infidel not a heretic. Thank you.The NPC wrote:How dare you utter such vile words!!! Smite this heretic!Nearyn wrote:Assuming that is an accurate account.If oldest is strongest, The Book of the Damned Vol I, tells the tale of Ihys and Asmodeus, the 2 first creatures in existence. Asmodeus was the first, Ihys the second. All other gods came afterwards. That, at least, is how Book of the Damned tells it :)
-Nearyn
Sorry, sorry. My mistake. In the church of Asmodeus, we treat them the same, since all non-believers are equal in the eyes of Asmodeus the Just.
| Jerdane |
I always figured that Rovagug was one of the most powerful of the main 20 simply because it took the combined efforts of several of the other gods just to chain him in the center of Golarion, and he still killed several of them in the battle. While imprisoned, of course, he's effectively much weaker.
| Renegadeshepherd |
A few thoughts of my own. Asmodeous is thought to be the eldest that is so. And during the war with dear brother even Sarenea was just an Empyreal Lord if I am not mistaken. After said war she became full deity and the other emerged/ascended to greater heights as well.
having said that I do believe there are references in the book of the damned that Asmodeous has been wounded on several occasions and is theorized to use some of the souls of hell to mend his wounds. Suggesting that his power is even more terrifying.
For my idea to work best I think I need a deity that is sealed away or limited to great extent but one like Hades from Clash of the Titans who is weakened would also work.
| Buri Reborn |
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Rovagug is strong enough that it took a coalition of gods to trap him. Interestingly enough, Pharasma did not participate in this struggle so we don't really have a display of power to judge by. However, James Jacobs has confirmed she is, in fact, the oldest deity. That said, there are things older than deities out there. It's just not material Paizo has explored in depth. The qlippoth were old when the first gods were born and Rovagug was actually a qlippoth. So, likely, it's Rovagug then Pharasma if age is power.
| Edymnion |
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How about this:
The gods may not be equal in power to each other, but the total amount of divine essence a mortal body can contain has an upper limit that is essentially the same across the board. So let's say the strongest god has 100 hypothetical power units, the weakest god has 50 hypothetical power points, but a humanoid body can only hold 10 points.
Inside human bodies, the gods are all equal, which is why they are doing this in the first place. Inside human bodies, it becomes a contest of skill, resolve, and creed more so than who is strongest in ways that we can't really understand.
Kind of like two humans playing chess. There are so many ways we are different that one may be physically stronger, but another has better combat training, while another has neither strength nor martial skill, but has stealth and guile. To find out who is best, they play chess where the pieces are equal, and it is individual style of play that decides the winner.
God's just use mortals the way mortals use game pieces.
| Renegadeshepherd |
How about this:
The gods may not be equal in power to each other, but the total amount of divine essence a mortal body can contain has an upper limit that is essentially the same across the board. So let's say the strongest god has 100 hypothetical power units, the weakest god has 50 hypothetical power points, but a humanoid body can only hold 10 points.
Inside human bodies, the gods are all equal, which is why they are doing this in the first place. Inside human bodies, it becomes a contest of skill, resolve, and creed more so than who is strongest in ways that we can't really understand.
Kind of like two humans playing chess. There are so many ways we are different that one may be physically stronger, but another has better combat training, while another has neither strength nor martial skill, but has stealth and guile. To find out who is best, they play chess where the pieces are equal, and it is individual style of play that decides the winner.
God's just use mortals the way mortals use game pieces.
A good analogy.