PFS Dwarf Druid recommendations


Advice


Hello,

I made a Dwarf Druid recently, the reason being I've never seen a single Dwarf in the scenarios I've played so far, and the Druid seems reasonably fun to play.

This is the character:

STR: 14
DEX: 14
CON: 17 (+2) (4th lvl increase)
INT: 10
WIS: 17 (+2) (8th lvl increase)
CHA: 05 (-2)

I took Steel Soul as the feat, and Second Chance/Glory of Old traits to improve the already amazing Dwarf and Druid bonuses to saves. I've planned to also take the Cloak of Resistance at the first opportunity to further improve the saves. Animal Companion was taken over the domain power.

My idea was not to play a fully optimized, specialized build, but more of a generalist role with solutions to most problems that could occur during the game.

The things I believe are going to be a problem are low AC, susceptibility to grappling and perhaps low damage dealing capability, even though having 14 Strength doesn't seem to be all that bad.

Any recommendations on how to improve the character on those regards? Also, what Magic Items and equipment do you believe would benefit the Druid during each tier of PFS?


If you aren't taking the domain I would strongly consider dropping your wisdom. Since you're a dwarf and took the steel soul feat it isn't going to hurt you. Put the extra points towards strength.


Yes, I thought about this and I think you're right. However, I would prefer to go only up to 16 Strength because the point cost becomes too steep afterwards. Also, the character should be able to cast all spell levels up to level 11, so I wouldn't drop too much Wisdom (perhaps down to 12 before applying the Dwarf modifier?).

Reading further on some other issues, I believe this additional Strength modifier, ability to cast some spells and wild shaping should also take care of the CMD vs. grappling, leaving AC and taking hits really the main problem.

What does a druid typically do to alleviate this?

EDIT: Also, I forgot to ask - abilities like Ghoul's paralysis don't count as spell-like abilities for the purpose of Dwarf saves? (Hardy/Steel Soul/Glory of Old)


If you're going to beat stuff up in melee the Nature Fang archetype (ACG) trades out wild shape (& some lesser doodads) for slayer talents, studied target and a dash of sneak attack. Since a lack of feats and attack bonus is one of the big problems for a fighting druid this is actually a decent trade.

Via slayer talent: Ranger Combat Style you can get 3 of whatever feats are most appropriate to your combat style, without prereqs and often well ahead of when your BAB would allow.

You still have full druid casting to handle utility and battlefield control.


Taking a level of ranger expands your weapon choices and class skills nicely, and allows you to pick up the Shapeshifting Hunter feat when you gain wildshape which makes your druid levels count for favoured enemy bonuses.

Silver Crusade

ooie-ooii

Scarab Sages

rorek55 wrote:
ooie-ooii

Doo-dad!


avr wrote:
If you're going to beat stuff up in melee the Nature Fang archetype (ACG) trades out wild shape (& some lesser doodads) for slayer talents, studied target and a dash of sneak attack. Since a lack of feats and attack bonus is one of the big problems for a fighting druid this is actually a decent trade.

This sounds like an awful trade. Druids don't need help with attack numbers because after level 4 you will be making multiple natural attacks at your full modifier and with a built in strength bonus. As far as feats go you could pretty much stop with power attack and be fine. Wild Shape is pretty much the defining ability for the melee orientated druid and giving it up for anything is a terrible idea.


andreww wrote:
This sounds like an awful trade. Druids don't need help with attack numbers because after level 4 you will be making multiple natural attacks at your full modifier and with a built in strength bonus. As far as feats go you could pretty much stop with power attack and be fine. Wild Shape is pretty much the defining ability for the melee orientated druid and giving it up for anything is a terrible idea.

But when he brought the warthog to town they told him it would not be served tea!


I did some more research, and there doesn't seem to be a strategy for either increasing AC or damage reduction without a significant investment. And even if you do, it won't scale well from levels 5-6 and upwards.

There's the planar wild shape feat, where you can gain DR 5/good||evil and some other neat abilities, but you would need to expend an additional use from wild shape. However, at level 5, you would typically be able to remain wild shaped through most PFS scenarios, and this looks like a really good choice for a feat. Shaping Focus also seems handy if you were to multiclass.

Basically, it's about buying Amulet of Mighty Fists and Belt of Giant Strength to kill the opponents before they do the same to you, eh? :)


While expensive, you could eventually get your hands on a suit of Wild armor. That would, at least, let you increase your AC nicely.

I found potions really useful in the time that I was running PFS. A potion of Mage Armor lasts an hour... which is enough time to finish substantial portions of PFS scenarios, and is at least usable in anticipation of combat. That would give you +4 AC that is usable in Wild Shape. They're 50 gold a pop, so they're slightly expensive at low levels, but keeping one on hand for emergencies never hurts.

If you want to smash things in melee, Wild Shape is definitely your best bet. If you want to be able to fill whatever role necessary, consider the Natural Spell feat so you can be in Wild Shape AND cast spells at the same time. This means you can smash someone's face open as a bear one turn, then cast Entangle to control the battlefield next... or something. You know, druid stuff.


Inlaa wrote:

I found potions really useful in the time that I was running PFS. A potion of Mage Armor lasts an hour... which is enough time to finish substantial portions of PFS scenarios, and is at least usable in anticipation of combat. That would give you +4 AC that is usable in Wild Shape. They're 50 gold a pop, so they're slightly expensive at low levels, but keeping one on hand for emergencies never hurts.

Aye, my other character (Cleric) has a stockpile of about 10 potions and 10 scrolls for every situation, and very often uses one of them during a scenario. Last time, Delay Poison saved his life.

I think I'm going to go for Planar Wild Shape and Natural Spell for the next two feats, get Druid's Vestments, damage increasing equipment, and go for Wild armor when the opportunity presents itself. That should be interesting enough.


I would strongly, strongly advise you to specialize one way or the other.

If you want to pounce and use wilshape, make sure you have plenty of strength. Then make use of spells without saves (faerie fire and fog cloud, etc.). You can also summon with this setup, but don't think your entangles and obsidian flows are going to be really effective.

Conversely, drop your strength, make sure you have plenty of WIS, and play a more caster based role. You don't need to worry nearly as much about AC when you can turn into a bat and fly around above the battle field, raining lightning and summoned allies. This also makes for a better control build since high DCs will make your spells land more often.

In general, when you try to be a generalist, you end up being not very good at two things instead of quite good at one. Also, you'll have a huge amount of utility just from the wildshape ability and a good number of useful skills. That lets you be a generalist out of combat, but you're going to want to specialize to one combat role or the other.

Scarab Sages

Another option that works really well for a Dwarf Druid is the Nature Fang of Torag. As a Dwarf, you have Warhammer proficiency, the Slow and Steady trait to wear stoneplate without slowing down, and can take Blessed Hammer. Druids have fantastic touch spells to use divne spell strike with, and the bonuses from nature fang help mitigate the loss of wildshape, especially if you count spells as class abilities.

Sovereign Court

DocShock wrote:

I would strongly, strongly advise you to specialize one way or the other.

If you want to pounce and use wilshape, make sure you have plenty of strength. Then make use of spells without saves (faerie fire and fog cloud, etc.). You can also summon with this setup, but don't think your entangles and obsidian flows are going to be really effective.

Conversely, drop your strength, make sure you have plenty of WIS, and play a more caster based role. You don't need to worry nearly as much about AC when you can turn into a bat and fly around above the battle field, raining lightning and summoned allies. This also makes for a better control build since high DCs will make your spells land more often.

In general, when you try to be a generalist, you end up being not very good at two things instead of quite good at one. Also, you'll have a huge amount of utility just from the wildshape ability and a good number of useful skills. That lets you be a generalist out of combat, but you're going to want to specialize to one combat role or the other.

That's basically sound advice, but IMO it ignores the context of the OP: This is for PFS.

Being mediocre is "good enough" to succeed in PFS's scale of challenges, and thus it's better to be able to do two things than to limit one's specialty to one thing.

Sczarni

If you're worried about your damage output, you could always prepare a Bristle or two. As long as the thing you're wildshaping into has natural armor, you can trade it away for a damage bonus (or choose not to cast it, if you think you need AC more at the moment.) It's a 1st-level spell, so you can knock your Wisdom down a bit and still be good.

As a Dwarf, you could also take the Ironhide feat and do this trick even without wildshaping.

Honestly, I suspect that once you get Wild Shape and find a good choice of body to shapeshift into, you'll discover that your AC and damage dealing are no longer an issue. I'm honestly not convinced AC will be an issue for you even before that, since you pumped up your CON and can always get yourself a wooden shield if you need to.

Sovereign Court

As a dwarf - consider getting heavy armor proficiency and buying stoneplate. I have a buddy who has done that for his PFS dwarf druid. (And whenever we're deciding who should open a door - I mention that he has the stones for it!)


Honestly, specializing is good. You can specialize in something without being HORRIBLE at a secondary role. So, you can focus on either casting or wildshape and invest a bit in being able to perform the other action whenever.

Scarab Sages

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
As a dwarf - consider getting heavy armor proficiency and buying stoneplate. I have a buddy who has done that for his PFS dwarf druid. (And whenever we're deciding who should open a door - I mention that he has the stones for it!)

Stoneplate isn't worth it unless you have wild armor, are a Goliath Druid, or aren't using wildshape. It's very expensive, very heavy, takes resources to use it, and it disappears when you use one of your best class features.

It works great for Goliath Druids and Nature Fangs though.


Not sure if this will be of any help, but this is what i was building today, on day off to try out some stuff.

Dwarf Druid = Terrain Domain "Badlands domain" = great for earth elemental form.

Weapons while dwarf: Scythe ( 2 handed weapon that goes with power attack ), club (cheap, does not cost anything, can be throw 10 feet ).

20 point build =base = cost = race = ability = Mod = Why
Strength ......= 14 = 5 = .............. = 14 = +2 damage/hit melee = Power Attack.
Dexterity .....= 14 = 5 = .............. = 14 = +2 AC/Range Hit/Infinitive = Some of the large and Huge forms have minus to Dex.
Constitution ..= 14 = 5 = +2 race. = 16 = +3 hp per level/Fort save. = Your a dwarf, might as well build on your natural abilitys.
Intelligence ..= 10 = 0 = .............. = 10 = 0 = Wish i had more points but oh well.
Wisdom ........= 14 = 5 = +2 race. = 16 = +3 will save/ need to cast for spell level/spell landing.. Druid prime stat for spell casting.
Charisma ......= 10 = 0 = -2 race... = 8 = -1 reaction / dump stat.

Ability bonus by level.
4 = +1 wisdom. = 17
8 = +1 wisdom. = 18 = +4 modifier = bonus 4th level spell slot
12 = +1 wisdom = 19
16 = +1 wisdom = 20 = +5 modifier = bonus 5th level & 1st level spell slot
20 = +1 wisdom = 21 = Game over so what does it matter :(

Favorite class bonus: +1 hit point per level.

Trait 1 = Reactionary +2 to initiatve role
Trait 2 = Focused Mind + 2 on Concentration checks

Trait optional substitution = Reckless +1 bonus to Acrobatics and Acrobatics is considered a class skill (+3 skill bonus).

Feats
1 = 1 = Toughness: +3 hp + 1 hp at 4th level and beyond.
3 = 2 = Power attack: -1 to hit +2 to damage (+3 with two handed weapon like the scythe listed above)/ per 4 BAB.
5 = 3 = Natural Spell: Druid self explanatory.
7 = 4 = Reach spell meta-magic feat: +1 spell level per range to Long
9 = 5 = Vital Strike: Base melee Damage x 2 for Standard action.
..............
11 = 6 = Heavy Armor Proficiency ( get +1 enchantment +3 Wilding enchantment to Dragon Full Plate ) .. You can finally spend 25% of your wealth up this point to buy the +4 enchanted magic armor that works with wildshape. PS... Do not forget to spend the other 25% of your wealth up this point to buy the +4 enchanted magic shield that works with wildshape!
13 = 7 = Piercing spell feat: +1 spell level for -5 to Spell Resistance vs the spell.
15 = 8 = Improved Vital Strike: Base melee Damage x 3 for standard action.
17 = 9 = Persistant spell feat: +2 spell level = Target has to pass 2 saving throws.
20 = 10 = Game Over: bummer = Shild Focus +1 extra shield ac bonus.

Skill
1) Knowledge "nature" +int = .. druid some DM require it for wildshape.
2) Perception + wis = .. might as well with high wisdom
3) Surviaval + wis = .. food/water/track/ etc, with high wisdom bonus.
4) Acrobatics +str level 1-3 (3 is the magic number), Fly + dex level 4-20, can not take fly till level 4 anyway.

....................................

Advantages over Elf druid = Lots more hp.. The +3 hp per con, plus Toughness Trait, plus Favorite class bonus does add up over time.

Base HP = 8 + 1d8 after 1st level
Con bonus = + 3 per level starting at 1st
Toughness feat = 3 at 1st level + 1 per level at 4th level and beyond.
Favorite class ability = +1 per level starting at 1st level

1st level = 15 hp to start with

Can wear hide armor better at low level due to being a dwarf, although this does not translate into better AC while wild shaped at low to mid level due to lack of wilding enchant being so expensive.

Downside vs elf = Would say you loss + 1 to +2 AC right off the bat vs lower dex score, and the elf can improve its natural armor in wildform by +1 AC per 3 level of Favorite class ability.... which give an elf better AC at mid to high levels, if they use the save feat purchase.

anyway, not the best build, but what i have been playing around with.. as not big on summoning or pets.


DocShock, I agree it's usually best to specialize, but very often it happens that you cannot predict what the party composition is going to look like in PFS, along the lines of what deusvult said. With that in mind, my idea is to lean more towards a melee-based build, but still keep Wisdom high enough to allow most spells to land. Both won't be just as good as a specialized character would be, but it would be good enough, as you only need to survive until level 12.

Stoneplate I would consider if Wild wouldn't be so damn expensive in terms of enchantments. It would cost a feat also, but I can see it working if I was to multiclass into a Heavy AP class that allows for some other benefits.

Silent Saturn, Druid is kind of a new territory for me and I hope you're right xD And yeah, for the first few scenarios the heavy wooden shield and a scimitar/club would be the way to go.

In the end, I opted to reduce Wisdom for a single point which I added to Strength. At level 4, both of them are going to be 16. Not the best you can do if you were to specialize, but IMO very solid both ways.

Thank you for the tips, everyone!


Glad you found something you like.

I'm not trying to say you can't cast spells if you have a few extra points in strength, I'm just saying you have fewer options. If you want to play more melee, you'll still have plenty of great spells, just stick primarily to ones without saves. For example, wall of thorns is insane even with a 15 WIS. Also, you might want to think about whether you'll be summoning much. Summon nature's ally spells tend to be a whole lot better if you invest the feats to get Augment Summoning, but then you'll want to work in power attack etc. as you go. Just something to think about.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

Power Attack can be difficult for druids to use. With there 3/4 BAB using BAB even while wild shaped can lead to accuracy problems. It is definitely something you can consider but I tend to like it down the road when the Str from wild shape can balance the BAB problems.

I am considering the following build for Core Only PFS campaign:

Ornery
Dward Druid
S 16 D 14 C 14 I 12 W 16 Ch 5 at first level (love the Cha penalty on this guy so much fun to roleplay)

Traits Upstanding (Diplomancy as a class skill and +1) again roleplay
Reactionary

Feats Sp Focus Conj, Aug Summoning, Natural Spell, Heavy Armor Prof, Power Attack

Raise Str with level adjustments

Start with Battle Axe, Club, Sling and Hide Armor with a Heavy Wooden Shield, use Shillelagh for a combat buff when needed (2d6 + 4 dmg, 18 AC at first level with spell going)

Eventually get Wild Dragonhide Full Plate, Wild Heavy Shield, and run around in Earth Elemental Form hiding in the ground with a Grappling Snake pet and buff spells with summons to aid in a fight.


Taenia, this is very much similar to the first build idea I had for the character, which then progressed towards the Planar Wild Shape focus. However, given that this is for the Core only PFS, I think your build will perform amazingly.

Anyway, survived the first scenario, and the character performed really well. Entangles landed on two thirds of all opponents, all spells were resisted, and the damage contribution was good enough. The companion was also amazing, having utilized the Flank and Aid tricks in combat.

The next 6 prestige would be spent on the following in order: Wand of CLW, Darkwood Breastplate and membership in the Hunter's Lodge. Can't wait for the next scenario ;)

The only annoyances were that I had to start using a Light Shield because of all the one-hand free/draw weapon while moving at BAB+1 nonsense while casting, but what can you do.

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