What do you think a wizards role should be in PFO


Pathfinder Online

1 to 50 of 57 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Goblin Squad Member

What would make it fun to play a wizard in PFO? Wizards in PFO cannot be described as a glass cannon in terms of dps and certainly not in AOE damga as that has just been severely nerfed. I have tried group play with a wizard but feel i cannot contribute much to the party with such low dps. The duration of conditional effects and their over all efficaciousy makes it hard to tell if they are doing anything at all. I hit an oger with a stun 3/4 of the time it seams to do nothing and once in a while they stop or run the other way but I have no Idea if this is my cantrip effect or some kind of bug as I have had the same thing happen when casting a cantrip with no conditional effects. If I am there to do minimal DPS and cast one buff on the party before engaging in combat doesn't that just make me a crappy cleric that cannot heal and has less armor. What should the role of wizards be in PFO? What will make prospective players want to play them?

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

My DT is a Wizard, hoping for Sorcerer when that comes available. Much of the TT aspects are more suited to PVE, but here are a few of the things that I think are key to make them more interesting and viable in PFO (and I think some of these are there, but maybe need work):

Battlefield Control: Grease, Web, Obscuring Mist, Fog Cloud, Wall of Force, Prismatic Wall, Wall of Iron, Black Tentacles, Transmute (rock to mud, etc.), Acid Fog, etc.

Interrupt Enemies: Charm, Hold, etc.

Defense: Mage Armor, Mirror Image, etc.

Damage: Magic Weapon, all the classic ranged attacks (Magic Missile, fireball, flaming sphere, lightning, acid arrow, etc.).

Other: Summon Monster

One of the key aspects of wizards et. al. in the TT game is the relative power they have at higher levels. I think some of this flavor should be in PFO; people are willing to subsist for awhile at a lower power level if they know there is something worth it later on down the road.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder is not about dps, like an mmo. The role of the wizard can be whatever you wish for it to be, even at low levels. The wizard is one of the most versatile characters because of his, if done right, almost unlimited selection of arcane spells, and this is the class's strength. If you choose to be an evoker, you are damage dealing huge chunks; that is why an evoker can cause more dmg than many wizard builds. Of course, it also depends on the metamagic feats you select. One item that needs to be understood, the magic spells you cast has a real world effect, for example; you cast burning hands in a wooden house, then the house will be set on fire, depending on the GM, etc. If you use acid splash on a lock, it will do dmg to it, in other words, the game does not operate the same as WOW, Diablo, or other games. Those games did receive inspiration from Dnd, Pathfinder and other Roleplaying games, but the game operates differently. Trust me, the wizard is not a crappy cleric, I love playing wizards, and casters, and the wizard's strength is the versatility of spell selection the class offers. If you feel as if you are not contributing to your group, which I felt with my witch, then reexamine your spell list; which spells do you have? How are you using your spells? What different ways can you use a spell? Also don't knock a spell off your spellbook because you may think it will never come up. Trust me, each spell will at one point save the day, or even save your life. I thought for awhile that Passwall will never apply to my game, Wrong. It saved me several times, including from a muderous lycanthrope. Try different spell combinations; there are threads in the discussion about cool spell combinations. Talk with your GM with what you can do. Dont' discount a class because of your experience with the class, or your perceptions about tabletop roleplaying game. The mechanics of the game are created differently because of the inclusion of other players, class focused abilities, and the mechanics of each of the classes, especially the inclusion of other players. Try again, and have fun, that is the point of the game. The game is to tell a story, and have fun with your character at the same time.

Silver Crusade

morgandefey wrote:
Pathfinder is not about dps, like an mmo. The role of the wizard can be whatever you wish for it to be, even at low levels. The wizard is one of the most versatile characters because of his, if done right, almost unlimited selection of arcane spells, and this is the class's strength. If you choose to be an evoker, you are damage dealing huge chunks; that is why an evoker can cause more dmg than many wizard builds. Of course, it also depends on the metamagic feats you select. One item that needs to be understood, the magic spells you cast has a real world effect, for example; you cast burning hands in a wooden house, then the house will be set on fire, depending on the GM, etc. If you use acid splash on a lock, it will do dmg to it, in other words, the game does not operate the same as WOW, Diablo, or other games. Those games did receive inspiration from Dnd, Pathfinder and other Roleplaying games, but the game operates differently. Trust me, the wizard is not a crappy cleric, I love playing wizards, and casters, and the wizard's strength is the versatility of spell selection the class offers. If you feel as if you are not contributing to your group, which I felt with my witch, then reexamine your spell list; which spells do you have? How are you using your spells? What different ways can you use a spell? Also don't knock a spell off your spellbook because you may think it will never come up. Trust me, each spell will at one point save the day, or even save your life. I thought for awhile that Passwall will never apply to my game, Wrong. It saved me several times, including from a muderous lycanthrope. Try different spell combinations; there are threads in the discussion about cool spell combinations. Talk with your GM with what you can do. Dont' discount a class because of your experience with the class, or your perceptions about tabletop roleplaying game. The mechanics of the game are created differently because of the inclusion of other players, class focused abilities, and the mechanics of...

Sorry, I just realized that this is for Pathfinder online. This advice is probably useless for the online game, but if you are having issues with this at your table top, then apply it. Who knows, maybe this advice might still be useful.

Goblin Squad Member

@Morgandefey,

Good information for a Wizard, but wrong forum. This is about the Pathfinder Online Wizard as of Early Enrollment 3.0 version. :)

Edit: Ninja'd by a few seconds.

Silver Crusade

Giorgo wrote:

@Morgandefey,

Good information for a Wizard, but wrong forum. This is about the Pathfinder Online Wizard as of Early Enrollment 3.0 version. :)

Edit: Ninja'd by a few seconds.

I did realize that. Chin. I was ninja'd. :)

Goblin Squad Member

Boom! Boom! Boom! Escalations are DOOMED!

and they can do it all night,
until we're all geared up right!

Ooooohh!

Goblin Squad Member

TEO Lone_Wolf wrote:

My DT is a Wizard, hoping for Sorcerer when that comes available. Much of the TT aspects are more suited to PVE, but here are a few of the things that I think are key to make them more interesting and viable in PFO (and I think some of these are there, but maybe need work):

Battlefield Control: Grease, Web, Obscuring Mist, Fog Cloud, Wall of Force, Prismatic Wall, Wall of Iron, Black Tentacles, Transmute (rock to mud, etc.), Acid Fog, etc.

Interrupt Enemies: Charm, Hold, etc.

Defense: Mage Armor, Mirror Image, etc.

Damage: Magic Weapon, all the classic ranged attacks (Magic Missile, fireball, flaming sphere, lightning, acid arrow, etc.).

Other: Summon Monster

One of the key aspects of wizards et. al. in the TT game is the relative power they have at higher levels. I think some of this flavor should be in PFO; people are willing to subsist for awhile at a lower power level if they know there is something worth it later on down the road.

I am in complete agreement with you though I would add at the more powerful higher levels one should have the option of specializing. I have no problem with a road twice as long and difficult as long as their is a reward for it. As it stands in group combat wizards are broken because to use an AOE we must use it when enemies are grouped up tight and not in range of a friendly. The only time this occurs is at the verry start of the fight and now with the 6 second cooldown on AOE we can only get one off. After that you get all aggro and you are squishy as F. Before the 6 second nerf it was still worth it for the group to let the wiz AOE the enemy group twice as they would be damaged enough to kill off fast enough for the wiz to live. Now there is no value in AOE attacks as the group will just end up loosing their wizard from agro or having to run after one AOE. So the AOE role is not there what is left is are spells like killing joke a single target attempt at damage a role already taken and done better by archers. I ask again what is the vision for the role of wizards?

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Aggro works in an odd way now. Instead of ganging up on the puller, monsters spread out and attack several different targets. Whether the wizard pulls or someone else does, the wizard will get some (but not all) of the aggro.

For creatures that can be killed by two hits of the wizard AoEs, a pair of wizards in the party will be just as deadly as ever.

Goblin Squad Member

KarlBob wrote:

Aggro works in an odd way now. Instead of ganging up on the puller, monsters spread out and attack several different targets. Whether the wizard pulls or someone else does, the wizard will get some (but not all) of the aggro.

For creatures that can be killed by two hits of the wizard AoEs, a pair of wizards in the party will be just as deadly as ever.

yeah thing is I don't feel like buying another account and slaving it to this one nor do I think it's fun to play a game with a class that's irrelevant unless there are two of you. Also GW said they are going to penalize duplicate AOE's at some point. I did notice the change in aggro with large groups. What it means for a wizard is large groups will always kill you because you are squishy and you would be more useful as an archer.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

This thread worries me. I am about to make a wizard type. I like combat and adventuring. I know there is the crafting rush. But my idea of fun is not sitting at the forge cranking out magic items. I want to use these items too. I want to run around and be able to defend myself.

What are you all's thoughts on this style?

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I have had some success adventuring with a staff.

I am adjusting my tactics since the changes in EE 3 (cooldown for cantrips).

But with a T1 +2 Charged Staff, I am able to take down Ogre Louts and Runts and even large groups of broken men/bandits with multiple yellows. Admittedly, I have had to run on occasion.

I also have a battle focus as my alternate weapon to be able to use both variant of minor cure, to speed up the recovery process.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

We have wizards in our escalation parties. I don't see them dying and I don't hear them complaining. In fact the biggest complaint (from me at least) is that they keep killing everything before I can even target them.

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.

With the new cool down period between spells now, it is harder to solo mobs as a wizard, and I'm talking the easy mobs. You get one too many goblins/omega wolves/recruit bandits and you are dead because of the cool down period on all spells. Be careful of facing four of any of these now.

And with the mobs now splitting up to tackle various members in the party instead of just one PC, it is kind of hard for a close range fighter and a wizard to work together. The wizard used to blast the mob and do some major damage on the weaker members and a bit of damage on the stronger ones, then hit them with some kind of slow or daze or obscure or something to distract or slow them then run away while the fighter runs in and tackles everyone, getting their attention on him alone.

Now the fighter can't pull the attention to himself.

1. Wizards blasts the mobs, they split up and hit whoever is nearby so fighter can't run in and get whole mob's attention.
2. Fighter goes in first and hits someone, mobs splits up instead of concentrating on the attacking fighter and attacks who they can, which mean the wizard can't do an AOE with the fighter in the middle and has to rely on single target spells but if more than one of the mob comes for him, he usually has no choice but to run away.
3. Wizard hits the mob with some kind of dazing/obscuring/slowing AOE and then runs away, hoping no more than one of the mob comes after him and that it is a weaker member of the mob. Once he is finished running, meaning the mook gave up, he goes back to see how the fight is going and maybe gets to actually attack something that is attacking another party member. Not as much fun this way.

Multiple wizards in a party is good. They all do an AOE blast, take out all the weak members of the mob, and then fight what's left with individual attacks. That seems to work best for many mobs.

Though being chased by a purple Hero while yelling "Get him off me! Get him off me!" can be a bit amusing for the other party members while the wizard runs in a circle trying to stay alive. :-)

Goblin Squad Member

<Kabal> Kradlum wrote:
We have wizards in our escalation parties. I don't see them dying and I don't hear them complaining. In fact the biggest complaint (from me at least) is that they keep killing everything before I can even target them.

I am certain that this is an irrelevant post after ee3 and cooldowns

Goblin Squad Member

<kabal> Bunibuni wrote:

With the new cool down period between spells now, it is harder to solo mobs as a wizard, and I'm talking the easy mobs. You get one too many goblins/omega wolves/recruit bandits and you are dead because of the cool down period on all spells. Be careful of facing four of any of these now.

And with the mobs now splitting up to tackle various members in the party instead of just one PC, it is kind of hard for a close range fighter and a wizard to work together. The wizard used to blast the mob and do some major damage on the weaker members and a bit of damage on the stronger ones, then hit them with some kind of slow or daze or obscure or something to distract or slow them then run away while the fighter runs in and tackles everyone, getting their attention on him alone.

Now the fighter can't pull the attention to himself.

1. Wizards blasts the mobs, they split up and hit whoever is nearby so fighter can't run in and get whole mob's attention.
2. Fighter goes in first and hits someone, mobs splits up instead of concentrating on the attacking fighter and attacks who they can, which mean the wizard can't do an AOE with the fighter in the middle and has to rely on single target spells but if more than one of the mob comes for him, he usually has no choice but to run away.
3. Wizard hits the mob with some kind of dazing/obscuring/slowing AOE and then runs away, hoping no more than one of the mob comes after him and that it is a weaker member of the mob. Once he is finished running, meaning the mook gave up, he goes back to see how the fight is going and maybe gets to actually attack something that is attacking another party member. Not as much fun this way.

Multiple wizards in a party is good. They all do an AOE blast, take out all the weak members of the mob, and then fight what's left with individual attacks. That seems to work best for many mobs.

Though being chased by a purple Hero while yelling "Get him off me! Get him off me!" can be a bit amusing for the other party members while...

This is exactly what Im taljking about AOE and wizards in general are now only usfull in a many wizard party. That seams broken to me. If you are a wiz in a fighter/wiz or rouge/wiz town and the other people in your party don't happen to be wiz you are usless if not worse then usless(accidental AOE).

Goblin Squad Member

You are not really meant to be solo in PFO but nevertheless I do solo as a wizard (in robes as well) a lot. It works for me.

Pyronous Rath wrote:
<Kabal> Kradlum wrote:
We have wizards in our escalation parties. I don't see them dying and I don't hear them complaining. In fact the biggest complaint (from me at least) is that they keep killing everything before I can even target them.
I am certain that this is an irrelevant post after ee3 and cooldowns

Even the supposedly scarey AoE nerf was sort of "meh just throw a different AoE spell while this one cools down". Wizards have a smorgasbord of AoE spells they can cycle through. The cooldown is only a bad thing if you choose one "optimal" spell and insist on using that and only that.

Robes could maybe do with a tiny bit of physical resistances though.

However, I am not going to get into another long debate about it - just saying I have no personal issues with playing a wizard.

Lludd wrote:

This thread worries me. I am about to make a wizard type. I like combat and adventuring. I know there is the crafting rush. But my idea of fun is not sitting at the forge cranking out magic items. I want to use these items too. I want to run around and be able to defend myself.

What are you all's thoughts on this style?

If someone asked me about training a wizard in PFO I would be "fine go for it" whereas if they suggested rogue I would be a lot less inclined to be encouraging.

Goblin Squad Member

Neadenil Edam wrote:

You are not really meant to be solo in PFO but nevertheless I do solo as a wizard (in robes as well) a lot. It works for me.

Pyronous Rath wrote:
<Kabal> Kradlum wrote:
We have wizards in our escalation parties. I don't see them dying and I don't hear them complaining. In fact the biggest complaint (from me at least) is that they keep killing everything before I can even target them.
I am certain that this is an irrelevant post after ee3 and cooldowns

Even the supposedly scarey AoE nerf was sort of "meh just throw a different AoE spell while this one cools down". Wizards have a smorgasbord of AoE spells they can cycle through. The cooldown is only a bad thing if you choose one "optimal" spell and insist on using that and only that.

Robes could maybe do with a tiny bit of physical resistances though.

However, I am not going to get into another long debate about it - just saying I have no personal issues with playing a wizard.

Lludd wrote:

This thread worries me. I am about to make a wizard type. I like combat and adventuring. I know there is the crafting rush. But my idea of fun is not sitting at the forge cranking out magic items. I want to use these items too. I want to run around and be able to defend myself.

What are you all's thoughts on this style?

If someone asked me about training a wizard in PFO I would be "fine go for it" whereas if they suggested rogue I would be a lot less inclined to be encouraging.

Yeah but any AOE with under a burst is already usless because enemies are never that close together unless they are right on you or another party member. There is only one ranged AOE cantrip worth casting wilting surge.

Goblin Squad Member

What about Shadow Blast?

Goblin Squad Member

shadow blast is cool, but too sad it's not the same 'school' than wilting surge ...

Goblin Squad Member

Pyronous Rath wrote:
<Kabal> Kradlum wrote:
We have wizards in our escalation parties. I don't see them dying and I don't hear them complaining. In fact the biggest complaint (from me at least) is that they keep killing everything before I can even target them.
I am certain that this is an irrelevant post after ee3 and cooldowns

No, this was playing on Friday and Saturday after EE3. Bunibuni was probably one of the wizards I was playing with.

What he says about running away applies equally to rogues, so that's not just a wizard problem.

We work together as a team. Pick off the one shot whites before the pull, focus fire on specific targets to get them down fast (sometimes the strongest mob in a group, other times we leave the strongest until last). Get the mobs off the healer, then the wizard, then, if I'm still alive, the rogue. We have suggested the Benny Hill theme be played during pulls though.

It would be handy if there were more crowd control spells, or more ways for the tank to get aggro, but as a rogue (even with their limitations) it's more fun than the continual sneak up and stab'em in the back play style of WoW.

Goblin Squad Member

<Kabal> Kradlum wrote:
Pyronous Rath wrote:
<Kabal> Kradlum wrote:
We have wizards in our escalation parties. I don't see them dying and I don't hear them complaining. In fact the biggest complaint (from me at least) is that they keep killing everything before I can even target them.
I am certain that this is an irrelevant post after ee3 and cooldowns

No, this was playing on Friday and Saturday after EE3. Bunibuni was probably one of the wizards I was playing with.

What he says about running away applies equally to rogues, so that's not just a wizard problem.

We work together as a team. Pick off the one shot whites before the pull, focus fire on specific targets to get them down fast (sometimes the strongest mob in a group, other times we leave the strongest until last). Get the mobs off the healer, then the wizard, then, if I'm still alive, the rogue. We have suggested the Benny Hill theme be played during pulls though.

It would be handy if there were more crowd control spells, or more ways for the tank to get aggro, but as a rogue (even with their limitations) it's more fun than the continual sneak up and stab'em in the back play style of WoW.

From what Bunibuni said it's not an improvement for group play or solo "With the new cool down period between spells now, it is harder to solo mobs as a wizard, and I'm talking the easy mobs. You get one too many goblins/omega wolves/recruit bandits and you are dead because of the cool down period on all spells. Be careful of facing four of any of these now.

And with the mobs now splitting up to tackle various members in the party instead of just one PC, it is kind of hard for a close range fighter and a wizard to work together. The wizard used to blast the mob and do some major damage on the weaker members and a bit of damage on the stronger ones, then hit them with some kind of slow or daze or obscure or something to distract or slow them then run away while the fighter runs in and tackles everyone, getting their attention on him alone.

Now the fighter can't pull the attention to himself.

1. Wizards blasts the mobs, they split up and hit whoever is nearby so fighter can't run in and get whole mob's attention.
2. Fighter goes in first and hits someone, mobs splits up instead of concentrating on the attacking fighter and attacks who they can, which mean the wizard can't do an AOE with the fighter in the middle and has to rely on single target spells but if more than one of the mob comes for him, he usually has no choice but to run away.
3. Wizard hits the mob with some kind of dazing/obscuring/slowing AOE and then runs away, hoping no more than one of the mob comes after him and that it is a weaker member of the mob. Once he is finished running, meaning the mook gave up, he goes back to see how the fight is going and maybe gets to actually attack something that is attacking another party member. Not as much fun this way.

Multiple wizards in a party is good. They all do an AOE blast, take out all the weak members of the mob, and then fight what's left with individual attacks. That seems to work best for many mobs.

Though being chased by a purple Hero while yelling "Get him off me! Get him off me!" can be a bit amusing for the other party members while the wizard runs in a circle trying to stay alive. :-)"-Bunibuni

Goblin Squad Member

I didn't say it was an improvement. Get used to the nerf stick hitting you in MMOs. Change your tactics.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Sadly if "change your tactics" means "you should be a fighter now", that's a lot of XP down the drain.

The only AOE that does massive damage is an up close spell. If you're taking advantage of the lack of armor penalty and running around in plate while casting this, then yes, it's OP, but if you're in wizard armor, it's actually quite a feat to stay alive long enough to cast that spell twice against multiple enemies, and it's easy to interrupt. Compare that to fighters, who get to do a pirouette that does significant damage to everything around them with a longsword, with the benefit of armor, no long cooldown, and no ammo. With encumbrance and crafting, attacks that use ammo should have some advantage to compensate. Once we have armor penalties to magic, I just don't see the AOE spells as being significantly overpowered. And if you're in cloth armor and have a cooldown on your attack spells, you need mobility. Everything in this game slows you. Energetic Field is important just to recover normal movement.

I agree that a wizard (especially one in plate armor) was possibly too efficient at taking out low-level mobs (although a pirouette with a longsword is still pretty good at that). But I think the fix was maybe a bit too extreme. I'm not sure there are even spells matching a Diminishing Staff that do damage and don't have a cooldown now (though I will have to go to the trainer and check, so don't take my word for it).

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Capitalocracy wrote:

Sadly if "change your tactics" means "you should be a fighter now", that's a lot of XP down the drain.

I play a rogue. None of our maneuvers do anything useful in PvE, lots of our attack feats don't work as advertised, none of our features work. But it's the wizard that's crying.

It doesn't mean, "you should play a fighter", it means, only pick mobs you can take. Run away sooner rather than later. Join a company. Find a group etc...

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

If you go to the Goblinworks forums and listen at the door of the Rogue forum, you'll hear us crying, too.

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.

No-one listens at the door of the rogue forum. They get a spike in the ear, as long as they are flatfooted, which they should be but aren't.

Goblin Squad Member

Fighter is the only role near feature complete and even then I suspect it only to be 75% complete.

All other roles are maybe a third to half feature complete. That does not even take in to account additional work for balancing and tweaking.

Goblin Squad Member

KarlBob wrote:
If you go to the Goblinworks forums and listen at the door of the Rogue forum, you'll hear us crying, too.

There is a quote somewhere from one of the Devs saying they are going to improve the Rogues until the cry of " Rogues are overpowered" becomes a daily thing. Know hope. :)

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Funny, because I make myself flatfooted all the time.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Giorgo wrote:
KarlBob wrote:
If you go to the Goblinworks forums and listen at the door of the Rogue forum, you'll hear us crying, too.
There is a quote somewhere from one of the Devs saying they are going to improve the Rogues until the cry of " Rogues are overpowered" becomes a daily thing. Know hope. :)

Still waiting. Still hoping.

Goblin Squad Member

Capitalocracy wrote:
I'm not sure there are even spells matching a Diminishing Staff that do damage and don't have a cooldown now (though I will have to go to the trainer and check, so don't take my word for it).

shhh ... I have a stack of +2 Diminishing staff in inventory to sell.

Personally I usually slot Deadly Proximity as a Primary to pair up with Wraiths Cry as it does sorta ok burst damage and only has a 2 second cooldown. It also sets up unbalanced for the Telekinetic Fist wand spell if you intersted in the conditionals though that combo probably only works in PvP at the moment.

Note that staff spells without the vexing keyword still function on a diminishing staff just "one plus" lower. Thus on a +2 staff they lose 5 base damage and function like spells for a +1 staff.

Goblin Squad Member

"one plus lower" would more accurately be "half the plusses, rounded down."

+0 = +0
+1 = +0
+2 = +1
+3 = +1 (assumes rank 5 cantrip trained)

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
<Kabal> Kradlum wrote:
Capitalocracy wrote:

Sadly if "change your tactics" means "you should be a fighter now", that's a lot of XP down the drain.

I play a rogue. None of our maneuvers do anything useful in PvE, lots of our attack feats don't work as advertised, none of our features work. But it's the wizard that's crying.

It doesn't mean, "you should play a fighter", it means, only pick mobs you can take. Run away sooner rather than later. Join a company. Find a group etc...

Yep, it means "change your tactics". Went escalation hunting with two groups of four last night. Got rid of most of my AOEs and used only single target spells [except for exhausting burst and fireball]. The mobs were a mix of white, yellows and reds. We had wizards, a cleric or two{?}, rogues and fighters. Don't think a single party member died, though I came close. I wore +1 Runespun Robes and used a +1 Charge Staff. We cleaned up on those ghouls.

However, soloing in Tier One gear is more dangerous for wizards now. But! Ryan and Co. have always said that if you solo you will probably die ... a lot!

Another wizard who is using Tier Two gear now, isn't having the same problems I am having soloing - by fighting smart, he can take on two Ogres Runts and an Ogre Lout at the same time - while I will only fight an Ogre Runt who is by himself with my Tier 1 stuff.

You just got to fight smart, know when to stay in the shallow end of the pool and know when it is okay to go into the deeper end and remember with every new update in the game, your old way of doing things may no longer work and you have to adjust.

I'm now a big believer in putting points into the various protective mage spells. I like my physical defense going from 7 to 18 when fighting mobs, it keeps me alive. Just wish it would last longer. :-)

Goblin Squad Member

<kabal> Bunibuni wrote:
Don't think a single party member died, though I came close.

We lost one near the end. Daeglin, I think. He was pretty embarrassed about it.

Goblin Squad Member

Yeah, well, considering I've been killed by goblins at least three times this week ... not goblin shamans, mind you, but regular goblins .... :-)

Goblin Squad Member

We were trying not to talk about your shame....

Goblin Squad Member

With +2 robes, +2 diminishing staff, and a bow, I feel comfortable taking on groups of ogre runts/louts and only die if I get immobilized :/ I can also take an ogre shaman, but unfortunately they're hard to find and seldom alone. Wizard gear actually makes it easier to take a shaman than a red ogre.

Goblin Squad Member

Capitalocracy wrote:
With +2 robes, +2 diminishing staff, and a bow, I feel comfortable taking on groups of ogre runts/louts and only die if I get immobilized :/ I can also take an ogre shaman, but unfortunately they're hard to find and seldom alone. Wizard gear actually makes it easier to take a shaman than a red ogre.

wiz shouldn't need a bow

Goblin Squad Member

Ok so I have been playing another character of mine that is a fighter/cleric and I have to say at this point anyone who thought a wiz was op EVER in pfo is straight up full of crap. I was complaining about the gimpedness of wizards before now im straight up disgusted. Do you people even play this game? I can literally wade through groups that would have killed my wiz no matter what anytime after the rooting was added. I would highly suggest the devs take go out alone and try killing some mobs with the different roles play each role for a half hour. As for anyone who disputes this I now KNOW you are full of crap so don't bother replying you have no point to make.

Goblin Squad Member

Pyronous Rath wrote:
anyone who thought a wiz was op EVER in pfo is straight up full of crap.

Apparently I'm straight up full of crap, then. And have no point to make.

But when my rogue decided to finally try out a staff, it felt like easy mode in comparison! The guys who farmed ten thousand goblins in the first week also seemed to rely mainly on staves. And when Ryan back in alpha took all the classes straight to level 8 (see, they already did that), his only complaint about the wizard was that getting the arcane achievements took relatively long. Since EE, the devs have felt the need to nerf several spells. Because, apparently, they felt wizards were too strong.

I think you are just talking about the perceived situation right now and tossing out words like 'EVER' just to try to add strength to your argument. I liked it better when you were arguing for better grass - the hyped emotional style was entertaining then.

Your point that fighter/cleric builds are more suited for wading through groups of mobs is a very valid point, though. So at least one of us made one.

[/rant]

Goblin Squad Member

randomwalker wrote:
Pyronous Rath wrote:
anyone who thought a wiz was op EVER in pfo is straight up full of crap.

Apparently I'm straight up full of crap, then. And have no point to make.

But when my rogue decided to finally try out a staff, it felt like easy mode in comparison! The guys who farmed ten thousand goblins in the first week also seemed to rely mainly on staves. And when Ryan back in alpha took all the classes straight to level 8 (see, they already did that), his only complaint about the wizard was that getting the arcane achievements took relatively long. Since EE, the devs have felt the need to nerf several spells. Because, apparently, they felt wizards were too strong.

I think you are just talking about the perceived situation right now and tossing out words like 'EVER' just to try to add strength to your argument. I liked it better when you were arguing for better grass - the hyped emotional style was entertaining then.

Your point that fighter/cleric builds are more suited for wading through groups of mobs is a very valid point, though. So at least one of us made one.

[/rant]

What were you wearing when you used this staff? I can only guess you were not wearing robes and had some type of armor on(go try it in robes). Yes hunting loot goblins outside a starter town with a 35m range staff/longbow is better than melee and it is also absolutely irrelevant to 99.99999% of game play. I played during alpha and I played before rooting and I played alpha at lvl 8 when xp was crazy. A fighter is still better and more powerful than a wiz(in robe) from then or now at going out and killing mobs or pvp. If you still think wi was EVER op go get yourself a two handed sword and the cleave feat. Oh and by the way when I said wade I mean wading into a LARGE group with yellows solo killing them all in under 20 seconds and never going under half health. This act is not in itself unreasonable however it is godly compared to what a wiz of the same level can do against such a group.

Goblin Squad Member

My primary complaint with the Wizard at present is the arcane achievements, as noted. They are few and far between. I'm about to go sit in a starter hex and farm goblins, because I need to kill another 550 creatures to hit Arcane Expert. Why waste the time doing that on challenging targets when I get the same benefit from 0-levels. I would very much like it if the level of monsters played some factor into counting them for achievements--an Ogre Chief should count for more than a Bandit Recruit.

Goblin Squad Member

KotC - Erian El'ranelen wrote:
--an Ogre Chief should count for more than a Bandit Recruit.

Excellent distillation of the problem.

(edit: a cap on starter goblins counting for achievements might also help.)

Shadow Lodge Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

They have Elite Knights, and elite goblins, and elite etc as achievements ….. One could presume once influence is introduced the amount gained is going to be based on the actual achievement and not equal to just the number of the achievement. Goblin slayer 7 is most likely not going to count the same as ogre slayer 7 in regards to the influence you gain…

Until the amount of influence is published for each achievement , I don’t see how this could be the primary concern.. if ogre slayer turns out to be worth 4 times what goblin slayer is worth what would the problem be?

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Daikin wrote:
They have Elite Knights, and elite goblins, and elite etc as achievements ….. One could presume once influence is introduced the amount gained is going to be based on the actual achievement and not equal to just the number of the achievement. Goblin slayer 7 is most likely not going to count the same as ogre slayer 7 in regards to the influence you gain…

I think the devs will have to walk a fine line with treating some achievements as more worthy than others, or no company will ever want crafters. You can currently get 10 achievement points for making a single +3 0-level crafted item with mats handed to you by someone else. A 1000xp character, provided with the right materials, could get a large number of achievement points for almost nothing, so presumably crafting achievements will be essentially worthless when it comes to influence?

More direct to this conversation, we're not talking about category points, but weapon points. Someone with the achievement "Longbow 10" for killing 8000 ogres will, in fact, be treated the same as someone with the achievement "Longbow 10" for killing 8000 starter goblins.

Goblin Squad Member

But, for Arcane Expert (at least at present) it's a simple headcount. 1 omega wolf = 1 ogre = 1 baddest-thing-you-can-ever-fight...So, I just spent an hour blowing up goblins (with Wilting Surge 1, of course, because it's vastly better than my level 3 orisons under enchantment) to make it another hundred-count closer to my next requirement. EEv4 will certainly help with the group awards, but it is still rough for those that can't get in a party often.

Shadow Lodge Goblin Squad Member

The point I think you are making is that anyone can rack up points for killing goblins and wolves, wizards can do those chores quickly( and yes it will count the same..)

But my guess( and only a guess ) is that those getting highly level achievements are going to have the value of those achievements weighted in the influence system. It is also my guess that basic weapon achievements are going to be low value like the t1 crafting achievements, anyone can do them with minimal xp. Elite ogre slaying is not going to be one of those.. And I think more to the point of how it relates to wizards, is a t2 wizard going to be able slay ogres in the same speed and manner as a T2 fighter / archer is going to be able to fight them?( who is going to survive a group of 2-3 ogres once robes are the only option?)

Granted this is based on what I think we will see once influence is published, but if the value of weapon achievements(any bow, divine, martial, crafting… ) is relatively low and the elite achievements ( elite knight, ogres, elite bandits. Etc) are higher I still do not get why you feel the speed of gaining lower level achievements is better boon than the speed of gaining higher level achievements. Anyone with the time can do the low level one with out much risk, while being a wizard doing the higher ones ( solo or in a pairing) is going to be much slower than the folks in the heavy armors and definitely have a ton more risk.

And as far as at present, them counting one for one … they don’t really count for much of anything except seeing large numbers in your achievements(except gating of roles if im thinking correctly.. and even then the gates are not severely out of reach for a character starting at 1k xp)

Goblin Squad Member

The Adventure achievements are, by-and-large, not an issue at all and I actually pay no attention to them as I don't care one way or another how many of any one thing I've defeated

I'm talking about the gate specifically--Arcane Expert 7 is required to progress with my other training. Arcane Expert 7 requires 1,250 kills. There is no distinction in those kills between an ogre and a goblin, nor can I diversify the gains by targeting different creatures, using other weapons, etc. So, the best option is to just go and blow up goblins for a few hours.

Shadow Lodge Goblin Squad Member

I guess i just chalk that up to a meaningful choice, to use an phrase I see a lot on these boards..

So instead of trying to kill higher level things with a staff (or just killing arcane critters ..) which im thinking is going to be worth more in influence value later, you are right the fastest way to get past arcane 7 is for you to blow up goblins for a couple hours) .
Likewise the easiest no risk way to level up a bow/ sword/ mace etc is killing the same goblins, but since the speed of killing them off is often the same as you are fighting something harder you might as well fight the harder ones because the drops would be better and they probably will be worth more later on.

.. btw as I am playing mostly a wizard, I don’t know what other skill is requiring arcane 7 as a gate? A knowledge skill? Or crafting ?

Guess my point is opposite of yours …… The standard arcane, divine, martial, bow subterfuge etc are going to be easy to rack up and have little value so I pay little attention to them, what I think will end up contributing to influence the most will be the harder adventure achievements where what you kill matters and not the manner in which it dies.

1 to 50 of 57 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Paizo / Licensed Products / Digital Games / Pathfinder Online / What do you think a wizards role should be in PFO All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.