Here's what the build is looking like currently:
Tengu (Claws)
Nature Fang druid (Crocodile domain) 6/Arcane Trickster X
strength 8, dexterity 16, constitution 12, intelligence 12, wisdom 18, charisma 10
Dwarf caiman familiar (mauler)
traits: Two-World Magic, Highlander
gear: Deliquescent Gloves, Rod of Ice
1: Weapon Finesse
2:
3: Two-Weapon Fighting
4:
5: Tengu Wings
6:
7: Improved Initiative
8:
9: Defensive Combat Training
10:
11: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
edit: forgot to include my slayer talents in here, so that should basically give me two more feats (more or less.) Any slayer talents of note?
edit2: I can open up my 3rd-level feat by taking TWF at 4 through Slayer Talent -> Ranger Combat Style. At 6 I can take Combat Trick for another feat. So feat slots are free at 3rd and 6th.
My plan is to be a giant jellyfish 4 attacks with 15 reach and poison targeting con requiring 2 consecutive saves and full sneak attack progression.
My plan is to be a giant jellyfish 4 attacks with 15 reach and poison targeting con requiring 2 consecutive saves and full sneak attack progression.
How do you do this?
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edit2: I can open up my 3rd-level feat by taking TWF at 4 through Slayer Talent -> Ranger Combat Style. At 6 I can take Combat Trick for another feat. So feat slots are free at 3rd and 6th.
A good feat would be Weapon Focus: Touch Attack. Personally - I'd switch the dex & wis scores - but it depends how much spellcasting you want to do which give saving throws. I think that most of the time you'll hit with consistency as most high ACs rely upon armor/nat armor, but you'll run into some foes who are rough. You'll want to avoid Will O Wisps - they get their full 25AC vs touch. :P
Even at level 12 your to-hit will only be approx +10/+10/+5/+5 if you don't take WF and put your level ups into Wis. (+5 dex/ +7 BAB) If you take WF and focus on dex it would be +13/+13/+8/+8. It also makes it so that the iteratives will hit armored characters consistently, and have a shot at finesse ones.
My plan is to be a giant jellyfish 4 attacks with 15 reach and poison targeting con requiring 2 consecutive saves and full sneak attack progression.How do you do this?
Vivisectionist vermin shape II
Well don't forget to add the flanking bonus in there. If I'm not flanking then there's not a whole lot of point in even attacking.
Speaking of that, I should probably take Gang Up (and Combat Expertise since it's a pre-req.)
Whoa - I can take ITWF at 6 instead of 11 if I use both my slayer talents on Ranger Combat Style.
That means I'll get an iterative with my off-hand BEFORE I get an iterative with my main hand.
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Normally you can take "weapon fineesse: touch attack" but the weird part is those two spells specifically cite weapons. So there are some GM's who will restrict it to wielding as those weapons. i.e. weapon finesse: melee touch attack wouldn't apply.
I find it dumb as sticks; since it's still no weight and still just touching. but I know people who have had sessions where they had serious trouble due to phrasing like that in PFS. Figured it was worth mentioning~
I'm assuming you mean Weapon Focus. And it shouldn't be a problem to take Weapon Focus: Touch Attack and have it apply.
Just don't tell the GM where the bonus comes from to avoid table variations. GMs don't ask about every +1.
Yeah, I am now leaning towards the interpretation that the Flame Blade is not finessable. Originally, I was using the fact that "a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell" is considered to be making an unarmed attack, and unarmed attacks are finessable, as justification for finessing it. But using Flame Blade is not really "delivering a touch attack spell": it is making a melee touch attack but not to deliver a spell. So I don't know how many PFS GMs I could convince to let that work.
Now, does it make any sense at all that Flame Blade attacks would be Str-based? No, but I suppose that's irrelevant...
Should I switch to Str build instead of Dex? Or maybe just bite the bullet and grab Dervish Dance. The unfortunate thing is that Dervish Dance wouldn't even help me use Gozreh's Trident when I'm facing fire-resistant enemies. But I suppose lesser elemental metamagic rods aren't too pricey.
Does anything stop me from dual-wielding Frostbite and Produce Flame?
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Does anything stop me from dual-wielding Frostbite and Produce Flame?
No. Normally if you cast a second touch attack spell, the first one dissipates. However, Produce Flame can be used as a touch attack, but it is not a touch spell. You can cast Produce Flame first, then cast Frostbite, and dual wield them.
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Does anything stop me from dual-wielding Frostbite and Produce Flame?
That's sad that you can't finesse Flame Blade or Gozreh's Trident. (I'm not sure I agree. But... I don't work for Paizo.) Though theoretically you could finesse both with a dip in Swashbuckler and Slashing Grace - it wouldn't really be worth it instead of simply using your other touch spell options.
I'd think you can dual-wield Frostbite and Produce Flame at the same time. And I'd think that the Rod of Ice would be finesse-able.
I am torn, because this entire concept was based off Flame Blade, so I would be very sad to abandon it. At the same time, all the great options this thread has provided (Frostbite, Produce Flame, Deliquescent Gloves) have broadened the concept significantly in a way I really like. I'm now thinking of this character as .
Squeezing in Dervish Dance isn't too hard, though. I could do:
1: Weapon Finesse
2:
3: Dervish Dance
4: Two-Weapon Fighting
5: Tengu Wings
6: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
7: Combat Expertise
8:
9: Gang Up
FYI: There is a slayer trait that gives you Weapon Finesse. It's one of the Rogue traits they can select.
If you still have rogue or slayer levels in your build. Oh! You get talents from your druid archetype. Oy. I'm slow tonight.
No, I admit it's confusing. The nice daisy chain of Druid -> Nature Fang -> Slayer Talents -> Ranger Combat Style is what gives me feats at 4 and 6.
But I'm pretty sure the best way by far to use those slayer talents is early-entry ITWF, so those are locked-in at this point.
Dervish Dance only prohibits me from carrying a weapon or a shield in my off-hand. I'm planning to use the off-hand for Frostbite or Produce Flame. The consensus seems to agree with the common-sense ruling that Frostbite does not count as "carrying a weapon".
Also, how could I enter Arcane Trickster at 5? I am not getting my second Sneak Attack die until 6th level (Crocodile domain + Nature Fang) and the current build doesn't give me an SLA until 5th (Tengu Wings.)
@LoneKnave: noted, but casting Magus spells one level delayed is significantly less attractive than full Druid casting. And by my reckoning, Wizard1/Magus5/AT4/CA1 is the earliest I could get Flame Blade. Versus 3rd level on the druid build. But yes, it's a possibility.
@boring7, the Elemental Spell feats specifically lists which energy types are allowed, and sonic is unfortunately not among them.
One more question: is there any way I can get the Surprise Spells ability (arcane trickster capstone) on Storm of Vengeance? Doing Sneak Attack damage to everyone in a 360 ft. radius is just so tempting.
At 10th level, an arcane trickster can add her sneak attack damage to any spell that deals damage, if the targets are flat-footed. This additional damage only applies to spells that deal hit point damage, and the additional damage is of the same type as the spell. If the spell allows a saving throw to negate or halve the damage, it also negates or halves the sneak attack damage.
You create a huge black storm cloud in the air. Each creature under the cloud must succeed on a Fortitude save or be deafened for 1d4 × 10 minutes. Each round you continue to concentrate, the spell generates additional effects as noted below. Each effect occurs on your turn.
2nd Round: Acid rains down in the area, dealing 1d6 points of acid damage (no save).
3rd Round: You call six bolts of lightning down from the cloud. You decide where the bolts strike. No two bolts may be directed at the same target. Each bolt deals 10d6 points of electricity damage. A creature struck can attempt a Reflex save for half damage.
4th Round: Hailstones rain down in the area, dealing 5d6 points of bludgeoning damage (no save).
If the acid came down on the first round this would definitely work, but after they hear the thunder, I'm assuming they'll no longer be flat-footed, so Surprise Spells won't apply. Is there any way to make this work?
The problem is they specifically have to be flat-footed (not merely denied Dex,) and the flat-footed condition ends when their turn comes up in initiative order.
Oh wait! I forgot about the surprise round!
All I need to do is cast the Storm of Vengeance in the surprise round, and then roll high on initiative. Anyone who goes after me takes full Sneak Attack damage, no save!
This makes me very happy.
Once they hear the spell being cast, the surprise round is already happening.
Regardless, the idea is to cast the spell from ~1000 feet away. If they can make their Perception with a -100 penalty, I'll be so impressed I won't even care my sneak is ruined.
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Just to add to your touch attack repertoire make sure you grab a wand of cure light wounds. Not only good for healing your party but great for sneak attacks undead as a touch attack.
One problem you will run into are demons/devils/outsiders with lots of resistances, but hey you still have full druid casting right?
Flame Blade lets you attack touch AC. So assuming you can find a way to apply your sneak, it should be easy to hit and get sneak damage.
Nature Fang druid lets you cast Flame Blade, gives you some sneak damage, and gives you an animal companion to act as dedicated flank buddy.
So, after Nature Fang 4, what is the best course for this character? Ninja X? Are there any feats or items that could make this more viable?
you could try a UMD rogue and just pick up a wand of flameblade, going full rogue. or a slayer/ninja doing teh same thing, but less skill points to toss around.
Btw. Someone above spoke about dual wielding Touch spells.. But I believe the first one is removed as soon as you cast your second.GL all
That is true of spells with range "touch" (like Frostbite) but not of spells with range of "0 ft." (like Flame Blade or Produce Flame.)
So, if you cast Frostbite and then Flame Blade, the Frostbite effect will end.
But if you cast Flame Blade and then Frostbite, both are active and you can dual-wield.
'Sun Metal' spell plus flame oracle revelation 'burning magic' plus heighten spell meta-magic = one to four rounds of the heightened spell level as damage (and in the case of sun metal this would be per hit for multiple attacks) = a large amount of additional fire damage without sneak attack. Even more with it.
But this doesn't let you attack vs. touch AC in any way, unless I'm missing something. Plus, I don't think you would get to apply Sneak Attack to the burning damage on subsequent rounds anyway.
As a backup to Flame Blade, Rumpin, Consider Divine Trident. Lower crit range but it is Lightning and can be thrown.
I was digging the Divine Trident (Gozreh's Trident) idea until I realized there's no way to make it finessable without dipping swash/daring champ. I think Elemental Flame Blade will have to do instead.
I was digging the Divine Trident (Gozreh's Trident) idea until I realized there's no way to make it finessable without dipping swash/daring champ. I think Elemental Flame Blade will have to do instead.
If you throw it, do you need to make it Finessable? Again, just an option until you get 3rd level spells can can cast an elemental Flame Blade.
I just remembered, Frostbite activates on a successful natural weapon attack.
That means if I bite/claw/claw I have three chances per round to get off a Frostbite (granted I'm hitting normal AC.)
And at level 6 when I'm doing Flame Blade/Frostbite/Frostbite/bite, the bite can potentially deliver a third Frostbite.
I feel like Christmas is coming over and over on this build.