Goblin Squad Member
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Man, I really need to get in the game. I'll see how things stand in February—still getting settled into school, and I've fallen really far behind in the dealings and wheelings of my buddies in Beertown or whatever it's called.
If you want to start accruing XP, I'd suggest starting before the end of January: for the first month, XP will backdate to day one (but you'll naturally be charged for the month).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Maybe it is better to identify your target before pulling the trigger. All this trash talk about milk and cookies but you want things color coded.
Of course it is better to identify your target, and I get the impression everyone does. What we are looking for is a reduction in how long that identification takes.
Man, I really need to get in the game. I'll see how things stand in February—still getting settled into school, and I've fallen really far behind in the dealings and wheelings of my buddies in Beertown or whatever it's called.If you want to start accruing XP, I'd suggest starting before the end of January: for the first month, XP will backdate to day one (but you'll naturally be charged for the month).
But I'll get membership until around the end of February, of course. Okay, thanks. I'll think about doing that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Agreed - the lack of heads up information about affiliation is very irksome. Sunholm has a rather extensive list of allies, so when I run into people in the wilds the time it takes to ask them from whence they have come is also time that can be used to get away on the off chance that they aren't friendly.
Unfortunately, proposals for heads-up information used to meet stiff resistance from the "I want nothing displayed with floaty text. My immersion depends on asking every character which settlement they belong to every time I see them until I memorize that info about every character in the game," crowd. Hopefully, now that they've seen how difficult that makes the simplest interactions, they'll ease up on the "all information must be conveyed by conversations," demands.
My immersion cannot be sustained unless I get to run around doing stupid shit and blaming it all on Cal.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Maybe it is better to identify your target before pulling the trigger. All this trash talk about milk and cookies but you want things color coded.
You're darned tootin' I want color coding! I'm less worried about identifying my target, and more worried about being a target because I can't tell whether the person who just appeared on my mini-map wants to help me defend my town, or turn me into 'PFOContent'. I definitely don't want to have to memorize the names of every character run by every player in Tavernhold, Stoneroot Glade, Talonguard, and all the other settlements that wind up as our friends, then try to memorize the names of every character run by every player who's likely to come try to kill me.
Also, raiders have an advantage in this area. "If Character X isn't in the raid group, kill 'em!" That's a lot easier decision than "I don't recognize that name. Should I run or keep gathering?"
Obviously, it will be a long time before PFO achieves this level of sophistication, but the best example I can possibly give for the kind of system I want is the Overview Tags system in EVE Online. I'm not saying that PFO needs a Local list showing everyone in the area. I'm saying that if a Golgothan raider or a UNC bandit is looking for gatherers in my vicinity, I want to know it before they reach long bow range.
Conversely, if my non-gatherer character is guarding a caravan, I don't want to skewer a friendly character who happened to get suspiciously close to us before I recognized them.
Bottom line: This is a video game. The plan is to eventually have thousands of people online at the same time. The needs of an MMO video game are very different from the needs of a Virtual Tabletop. Learning everything through conversation works fine when there are four to six players, and everyone else is a GM-controlled NPC. It does not work for an MMO.
Are we Golgotha's friends? I mean, in-character? Is that new? Is there anywhere that sorts all the alliances and relationships for our viewing convenience?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Are we Golgotha's friends? I mean, in-character? Is that new? Is there anywhere that sorts all the alliances and relationships for our viewing convenience?
As far as I know, Tavernhold doesn't have any enemies yet, so that makes everyone our friends (imho).
I haven't seen a public alliance display page yet, but I'll bet there are some private ones out there.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But I'll get membership until around the end of February, of course. Okay, thanks. I'll think about doing that.
I'm not sure what you mean by this, but... as I understand the subscription fee, if you log in any character anytime during January, 1 month of game time will be subtracted from your account.
So if you log in twice, once on Jan 30th, and once on Feb 2nd, you will have used two months of game time.
Goblinworks has promised a better method of managing game time in the future, but if reserving your game time is important, don't log in during January. If you want the month's worth of exp for January, you will be charged the month's worth of game time.
Someone needs to get on that. Maybe make a Docs doc that only one appointed guy from each settlement is allowed to edit. Sounds like a great job for someone who's not me.
But I'll get membership until around the end of February, of course. Okay, thanks. I'll think about doing that.I'm not sure what you mean by this, but... as I understand the subscription fee, if you log in any character anytime during January, 1 month of game time will be subtracted from your account.
So if you log in twice, once on Jan 30th, and once on Feb 2nd, you will have used two months of game time.
Goblinworks has promised a better method of managing game time in the future, but if reserving your game time is important, don't log in during January. If you want the month's worth of exp for January, you will be charged the month's worth of game time.
Uh, wow. Okay, thanks for warning me. I guess I'll be steering clear of PFO for a while, then. Can't wait for that to be fixed. XD
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Goblin Squad Member
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]Uh, wow. Okay, thanks for warning me. I guess I'll be steering clear of PFO for a while, then. Can't wait for that to be fixed. XD
So I rechecked the "managing your game time" blog and it appears I was incorrect.
I thought that sounded a little harsh. Here is what the blog says:For Month 1, if you log into the game client (not the website), even if you do not enter the game world, that will consume one month of your game time. The anniversary of your first month will be 30 days after the date that you logged into the game client.
You were right the first time, you can log in at the end of January and play on one month of game time for 30 days.
That seems very hard for Goblinworks to keep track of.
Oh, thank god. I would like to start playing soon and grab that XP, I just don't want to risk wasting a month—or even just a few days—because it turns out I have less time than I thought.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I remember fighting for anonymity for reasons of ambushes and assassination. I had an in depth idea but it would be some thing for later down the road. For now, it would be nice to company mates, group mates, and a raid group interface.
Targeting should be a bit easier. A bigger area to targe etc. As for identity, mouse over mini map for a name. You should remember names or have a list, its not that hard.
I swear, I don't believe the realism folks actually play any games, they just day dream about their ideal game that few people would actually enjoy playing as it would be utterly tedious. DayZ Standalone, Wurm online, etc
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Caldeathe and Nihimon
Harad Navar Drakhan
Jazzfrazz, Goodfellow, Tyncale
Bluddwolf, Andius
Guurzak and Decius
KarlBob and Gpunk of Freevale
Pretend I wrote a whole list of these and then sing it to the tune of "Wakko's World".
Also pretend "Andius" and "Decius" both have the second half of their names pronounced "EE-uss".
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Goblin Squad Member
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I swear, I don't believe the realism folks actually play any games, they just day dream about their ideal game that few people would actually enjoy playing as it would be utterly tedious. DayZ Standalone, Wurm online, etc
You should see the WWII flight sim community. The realism folks want full historical checklists and engine startup procedures. Not just mags and mixture but ground crew crank start and including engine damage if run at full takeoff power before properly warmed up (5 to 10 minutes sitting on the tarmac in the case of a 109 on the Russian front). :D
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I swear, I don't believe the realism folks actually play any games, they just day dream about their ideal game that few people would actually enjoy playing as it would be utterly tedious. DayZ Standalone, Wurm online, etcYou should see the WWII flight sim community. The realism folks want full historical checklists and engine startup procedures. Not just mags and mixture but ground crew crank start and including engine damage if run at full takeoff power before properly warmed up (5 to 10 minutes sitting on the tarmac in the case of a 109 on the Russian front). :D
Tarmac?! What airfield on the Russian front had tarmac?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Tarmac?! What airfield on the Russian front had tarmac?I swear, I don't believe the realism folks actually play any games, they just day dream about their ideal game that few people would actually enjoy playing as it would be utterly tedious. DayZ Standalone, Wurm online, etcYou should see the WWII flight sim community. The realism folks want full historical checklists and engine startup procedures. Not just mags and mixture but ground crew crank start and including engine damage if run at full takeoff power before properly warmed up (5 to 10 minutes sitting on the tarmac in the case of a 109 on the Russian front). :D
Some existed, they just tended to have lots of shell holes :P
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Goblin Squad Member
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Agreed - the lack of heads up information about affiliation is very irksome. Sunholm has a rather extensive list of allies, so when I run into people in the wilds the time it takes to ask them from whence they have come is also time that can be used to get away on the off chance that they aren't friendly.Unfortunately, proposals for heads-up information used to meet stiff resistance from the "I want nothing displayed with floaty text. My immersion depends on asking every character which settlement they belong to every time I see them until I memorize that info about every character in the game," crowd. Hopefully, now that they've seen how difficult that makes the simplest interactions, they'll ease up on the "all information must be conveyed by conversations," demands.
I like heads up info, no problem with that, as it would make bluff skill actually useful!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Are we Golgotha's friends? I mean, in-character? Is that new? Is there anywhere that sorts all the alliances and relationships for our viewing convenience?I recommend Duffys Political Map.
Found link: Duffy's Political and Settlement Types Map.
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Goblin Squad Member
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We will likely end up dying armors and/or using banners to identify, but that won't help all that much until players use a little common sense and curb their tendency to run and hop wildly across the field.
The complaint is that you cannot tell who is on your side and who is an enemy. Healers cannot find their people all the way across the battlefield that need healing. Well it isn't for the developers to force you back into formation. The serious advantage of a formation is that if someone is where they are supposed to be you don't have to check their name to see who they are you KNOW who they are and where they are. If they aren't where they are supposed to be it is on them (but your reputation and military success will remind you to encourage them to stay in formation).
PFO is going to have formation combat. We've been wondering what that is going to look like. Well look around you. This is what it looks like. If you cast an aoe you cast it onto the other side. Don't cast it on this side. So each group is a formation. You know where your groupmates are because you are in formation. You don't have to check because they are where they are supposed to be. You don't have to check because the people on your side are either behind you or adjacent to you. They are the group to your right and your left. It is the guys across from you who are the enemy. See how that works?
So organize yourself with a smidgen of intelligence rather than whining for color-coded friends.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Being,
In you analysis above, where do you feel that the settlements and companies officially declared and actual as demonstrated by action alignments come in to play?
Players and their parties that are well organized, with good communications, practice together and show good discipline might leans towards LAWFUL style of play, while those that show poor or none of the above might lean towards the CHAOTIC style of play; neutral's of course can go either way. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Being,
In you analysis above, where do you feel that the settlements and companies officially declared and actual as demonstrated by action alignments come in to play?
Players and their parties that are well organized, with good communications, practice together and show good discipline might leans towards LAWFUL style of play, while those that show poor or none of the above might lean towards the CHAOTIC style of play; neutral's of course can go either way. :)
I apologise for my density but I don't get what you are trying to ask me, Giorgio. Do you want to talk about the relationship between alignment and formation combat?
I'll take a stab at what I can imagine you are asking. You want to know how chaotic-aligned characters can conscience formation combat?
It is true that barbarians met and fought Romans. Barbarians are thought to have been more chaotic and the Romans were disciplined. Initially the Romans had the advantage because of their formations. Then the barbarians gained the upper hand because the disciplined roman formations were inflexible and couldn't easily pivot to refuse the flank. Then the Romans again gained the upper hand as they articulated the line into smaller units so that if flanked the formations on the end could pivot to refuse flanking.
Order and Chaos affect one another. If your chaotics do not learn to adapt they will lose. Chaotic alignments are not stupid. They can serve self-interest and it is in the interest of the chaotic to adapt. It is in the interest of the lawful to adapt as well. Adaptability and resilience are chaotic strengths equivalent to lawful discipline and control.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Being,
I apologize for my lack of clarity. I will try again. (Even though your response was not what I was looking for, it was very informative!)
Many players, working by themselves, in parties, in companies and in settlements have both an actively declared alignment (my Fighter is LG or Ozem's Vigil is Lawful Good) and observable in game "alignment" for lack of better word; Goodie TwoShoes says he is LN, but he keeps harassing new players, steeling loot and saying annoying things in chat, he is acting like a CE douchebag.
In general, I believe those players and social organizations declaring themselves on the Lawful spectrum (Ozem's Vigil, Forgeholm, Callambea, Golgotha...) will do a greater effort to coordinate and train for combat than those on the Chaotic spectrum (Taverhhold, Aragon, Freevale...).
Those on the Neutral spectrum (Guardhelm, Talonguard, most of the Everbloom ALliance..) will be organized on the strength of its self-motivated volunteers, as opposed to a dedicated leader (Law) or the charisma of a strong individual (Chaos).
So my question is more of the line of: Do you think alignment will factor into how players thrive or not in combat?
(As the raid on Hammerfall got me thinking about this while I observed the video and read the 2 pages of back and forth comments in this thread).
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Goblin Squad Member
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I suspect lawful characters will work more effectively together, but chaotic characters may prove more numerous. If chaotics are sufficiently more numerous they should be able to attrite the efficiency afforded by formation, but in the near term the lawful have the advantage. If it turns out that chaotics also suffer ADD, then the short term condition may prove chronic for a very long time.
Neutrals... depends on how they choose to express that neutrality. Life isn't monolithic but integral. I'd recommend Neutrals focus their lawful element upon the cooperative martial arts.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The complaint is that you cannot tell who is on your side and who is an enemy. Healers cannot find their people all the way across the battlefield that need healing. Well it isn't for the developers to force you back into formation. The serious advantage of a formation is that if someone is where they are supposed to be you don't have to check their name to see who they are you KNOW who they are and where they are. If they aren't where they are supposed to be it is on them (but your reputation and military success will remind you to encourage them to stay in formation).
My complaint isn't the telling friend from foe. It isn't about seeing who across the battlefield needs healing. It's more about being able to target them. I don't mind so much that I have to click to identify them. It's that it is a damn pain to actually click them. But I do also believe that if a person is in your party/company/raid, that when they are close enough, you should be able to identify with out clicking on them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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took their tower, and finally took their Keep!
You've singlehandedly fixed PvP without dev involvement????
Or do you mean you took close to 2 hours to enact a form-up and when you finally berated enough of your carebears to put down their shovels and craft a weapon you discovered many Golgothans were too rep damaged to enter their own settlement without Thornguard aggro, so you milled around in Golgotha for a while and took a screenshot?
Please, please don't tell me you forgot the "glorious victory" screenshot.
Hearing Cheatle's accounts of battles is kind of like listening to a child give an account of what they did on the playground.
Lacking any real war mechanics or any meaningful impact from PvP (Aside from receiving rep penalties for winning) he gets to make up his own victory conditions and paint fanciful pictures of how he and his friends always win the day.
No wonder he thinks this game is good. When 90% of the action is taking place in his imagination, there is little need for actual solid mechanics.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm simply pointing out it sounds like your "glorious victory" was a matter of letting your allies get farmed for two hours before you took the zerg I built you and pushed inside a town where many of the enemy couldn't even go and accomplished nothing inside.
It sounds roughly equivalent to an old Freelancer rival who once claimed victory after a battle where he died countless times without making a single kill because his opponent got bored and left and he "held the field".
Tell us more about your glorious victories when there is any meaningful measure of such implemented.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm simply pointing out it sounds like your "glorious victory" was a matter of letting your allies get farmed for two hours before you took the zerg I built you and pushed inside a town where many of the enemy couldn't even go and accomplished nothing inside.
It sounds roughly equivalent to an old Freelancer rival who once claimed victory after a battle where he died countless times without making a single kill because his opponent got bored and left and he "held the field".
Tell us more about your glorious victories when there is any meaningful measure of such implemented.
Didn't you decide to leave this game and the forums? Yet here you are, trolling one of the nicest, most respected people in this community for no apparent reason.
Yes, you are your own worst enemy.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Andius, I don't believe you understand what exactly happened.
Hammerfall wasn't farmed for hours on end before any actions were taken, the attack lasted all of 10-15 minutes, plus a chase against slammie.
This wasn't some glorious victory, putting words in my mouth there, it was a response against Golgotha for attacking an alliance member. There isn't anything to really fight over in game, so yea we took the tower and the Keep, as not allowing them to approach (although if they would have had more people online it might have been different).
EDIT: We actually fought at the tower for 20+ mintues, where every member of Golgotha could have made it, ask any of them that participated. We only were at the Keep for 2-3 minutes once we realized all of the guards were killing them for low rep, at that point we went to help them farm their escalation.
Yes, you founded TEO, and it has evolved into a great group of people. We have restructured it over the last 6 months to better conform to the needs and wants of the membership, as well as the game mechanics, but the ideals of community, justice, and protection still stand. It is not us that abandoned those ideals, the game, or the community. It just seems really petty to me that you continue to come to this website, bash us, and bash the game over and over again.
In all fairness, TEO's reprisal blob was bigger than the blob they eventually caught up to and would likely have had a very good chance to achieve a "victory" in a sanctioned (non-rep) battle.
Of course, throw in husks, and we get to see how many of their number REALLY want to PVP. If form-up takes 2 hours now, imagine when players have to risk their shiny gear that helps them PvE.
I'm not saying they are risk averse, just that it will be interesting when they have to weigh (for example) the 66 iron and 66 coal it takes for Pot Plate +2 versus how quickly they can lose it.
X hours to gather vs. Y minutes to lose it.
Then we see who comes back and how often.
Right now you can die 20 times before your gear goes away. When it disappears (or has a chance to) on your very first death, things will get interesting. Especially if you are the attacker, because it can be a long way home to re-equip. You can carry extras, but that might just wind up in your husk too (depending on how husk mechanics are finalized).
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Goblin Squad Member
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I realize he is trolling at this point, but I feel obligated to explain the details of what happened, because TEO participated.
@Saiph,
I appreciate your words, very much.
@Midnight,
You are very much in the right, everything has to be weighed. Yes a reprisal is necessary, in these stages, but later on you really have to weigh the cost/benefit. Once we have repair kits and better crafting ques/crafters, as well as gushers, then things begin to get interesting.
I look forward to more battles against you!
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Goblin Squad Member
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In all fairness, TEO's reprisal blob was bigger than the blob they eventually caught up to and would likely have had a very good chance to achieve a "victory" in a sanctioned (non-rep) battle.
Of course, throw in husks, and we get to see how many of their number REALLY want to PVP. If form-up takes 2 hours now, imagine when players have to risk their shiny gear that helps them PvE.
I'm not saying they are risk averse, just that it will be interesting when they have to weigh (for example) the 66 iron and 66 coal it takes for Pot Plate +2 versus how quickly they can lose it.
X hours to gather vs. Y minutes to lose it.
Then we see who comes back and how often.
Right now you can die 20 times before your armor goes away. When it disappears (or has a chance to) on your very first death, things will get interesting. Especially if you are the attacker, because it can be a long way home to re-equip. You can carry extras, but that might just wind up in your husk too (depending on how husk mechanics are finalized).
I wonder if this might lead to having retainers (gatherers) hold extra gear for you on the back lines while you go into battle. They keep the front lines supplied in gear while they PvP... Anyone have an opinion on this?
+7500 to -4800.
In fact, I demand :-) a roll-call of those brave crowd-forgers who fell below -2500 rep last night.
I love you, Orc.
