I think player looting will in fact really start the economic game of actual trading with other settlements and companies. Poaching will have a real risk and force players to make trades with gathers from other territories. Caravans will start up to transport those goods, planning will happen and coin will start to matter. People will get the idea that you gather in your own territory, if you are outside of that area, expect to be attacked by some if gathering, but not all. Identification will be a bit of a problem at first, but I'm sure will be worked out shortly, as we won't know who to kill and who to leave alone until we have that in.
I really think this is where the game will actually begin to matter. Sure the first couple of weeks have been cake, gather, get to your settlements, learn the ropes a little, nothing to lose. Now, there will be something to lose but with a few simple precautions the majority of the time you will be fine, and when you do get attacked (if in your own territory), you can call in your Company members and bring down the wrath (if you care to). If you are in a non-allies territory, take the risk and if you get caught so be it, work the trade/caravan setup instead. Resources start to REALLY matter so much more, communication as well.
Once the AH is fully functional (including buy orders) planning can go into each trip, time tables and pathing will matter, scouts will matter, the game will matter, and yes, working with others will be needed, but not all the time. In your own area most of the time you will be safe to roam.
Neadenil Edam wrote:
I hadn't heard that but either way I still think there may be a place for a supply chain tactic, even if just for ammo (once in), grenades, potions, misc weapons and armor that break due to dying 20 times in an extended battle, etc. Then we get to have our reserves guarding the suppliers, our scouts out watching for covert attacks, ad other coordinating relocating those supplies to keep them out of reach. There are plenty of jobs to be had in battle other than the front lines. I look forward to seeing how each evolves and how to take advantage of them.
Good question....I would say the depends on how your system is handling the game with your 8GB. If you are running smoothly at 8GB (and don't have the cash for more) then you're all good. IF you're having system issues, I found that a little improv cooling (such as a small portable house fan) can remove the hitching if you are seeing it at 8GB. The game seems to really be using up those resources and causing any heating issues to rear their heads.
I would have to agree. I recently went from 8GB to 16GB (even though the client wasn't using more then 4-5GB) and saw an immediate dramatic improvement.
Yeah, we'll see how these battlefield tactics evolve and change. When true wars start up and we have formations and such, I'm sure there will be some real fun to be had in the tactics.
I completely agree....Don't think I mentioned that to tell you we were going to be doing it, more in the hopes that you would and I would be the one doing the "battlefield requisitioning". Perhaps we'll meet in the middle and just end up being the front line at the supply wagons. ;)
Midnight of Golgotha wrote:
I'm sure you never would ;) Still it is yet to be determined what the winning tactics will be. Those pack mules might not even exist or may be geared to be really fast to out run attackers, or any of a lot of other options.
I was just wondering on tactics like in PVP battle when looting husks is in, looting anything critical such as weapons and armor and destroying it (down to a certain enc level) instead of keeping it just to deny it to your enemies when they recover their husk. You might not want to try carrying what you loot or it could slow you down, or have your loot retainers on hand to hand it off to... So many tactics to play with and see how they pan out....once we get the looting in.
Midnight of Golgotha wrote:
I wonder if this might lead to having retainers (gatherers) hold extra gear for you on the back lines while you go into battle. They keep the front lines supplied in gear while they PvP... Anyone have an opinion on this?
Calling all Alpha participants, GW staff, and anyone with Alpha access! Come spend Thursday Night in Brighthaven for a large scale battle and event!
I would definitely like to see some way to identify what Company, Settlement, or Faction a player is if that player is selected. I do find that I am interested in having this tied to a feat or skill so that it isn't automatic with a tag always flying, or that you can switch it on or off. Still, I'm behind this idea and agree. Only reason i can see to say no would be that sometimes you may not want people to know who you operate with.
It is indeed about giving more effects to the existing and future keywords and just ties into enchanting as a way to customize the item. The real idea is that keywords are more than a numerical bonus and have an actual effect allowing something like a spear with 2 active keywords of (made up keywords that may not actually be on it) piercing and penetrating to not only add a generic +10 to over all damage but also allow it to bypass half the opponent's physical protection with penetrating, and possibly piercing could allow you to ignore certain keywords on armor such as thick.
We have all these wonderful keywords, but they could for all intents and purposes be called keyword 1, 2, and 3, or just be replaced with +5, +10, and +15 damage/protection, except for having to match the keywords in the feat used with it.
I'm sure GW has something in the works for the enchanting system but I don't have any idea of what it will be or how robust. It will start with MVP and depending on the priority it gets in crowd forging can build up faster. Just trying to get the idea out there.
TEO Cheatle wrote:
What you are suggesting sounds like the Enchantment system, which is already in production.
Do we have a good outline of the enchanting system and what it will provide? I haven't seen any detail on it so don't really know what it will be doing. If it is designed to make keywords do something other than a numerical increase that is great. If it is just going to use the same keywords but make the item, like a flaming sword apply a stack of burning, and they keywords still are just numerical bonuses, it would be a little different. Have any good links to what enchanting will be like?
Not sure how many of us are still frequenting ideascale but wanted to see what the community thought about the Keyword System adding more than just a numerical bonus?
Heres the idea:
Make the keywords do more than just add a numerical bonus. I like the keyword matching system, but I definitely feel the keywords should do more, much more (eventually). The system itself has a large number of possibilities. I'm looking forward to slaying weapons, flaming, frost, lightning, life stealing, returning (if and when we can throw weapons and not just shoot arrows), and vorpal (actually causing wounds), as well as many other classic Pathfinder weapon and armor, magic or mundane, abilities.
I feel that your keywords on items and attacks should do something more than just add a +5 bonus to damage or defense, but actually penetrate armor better, if it has that keyword, bypassing some of the physical protection the armor normally grants, or the slashing keyword being much more effective against leather and cloth. Obviously, the higher end keywords would most likely need to be attached to at least a tier 2 weapon (because it would require Masterwork to enchant at that level). When enchanting comes into play, hopefully you will be able to specify exactly the keywords you want on a weapon, armor, or item, to perfectly match up to your play style. That would also mean that eventually they may need to let you customize your feat keywords to match them up with your enchanted item keywords for even more specialization.
Anyway, please go vote on the idea and feel free to refine or better define the limited outline of the idea I've given.
Sorry to hear that man. We are still in Alpha though, not even EE and the game is not set in stone. If people are making a judgement on the game at this early stage and looking elsewhere, hopefully they will look again once things have been adjusted and you can focus on what you want. I think the game is most likely in one of it's most hard to sell periods as it is playable but not even MVP, so people are judging it right now, when so many changes will be coming shortly.
Thanks and I agree.
Point taken and that will be a factor that is still as yet unknown (agreeing with you there). The really low end new characters will definitely have problems getting by the defenses of the Vet but on the sliding scale, even if those new characters are even just a few weeks old it makes a tremendous difference in that gap. I was taking that into account but I haven't really run the numbers on just how effective a newb will be against the Vet on raw ability to be effective in your use of skills. From what I've found, even at low levels if a feat can cause a flat fitted state (%50 chance), it does so even if you are fighting a Vet. These factors can all change dramatically. I am actually in favor of the Vet having a bitter better chance because of all that time and effort put into the character and it may still weigh in heavier than I described above, but with the current data it appears more geared towards numbers trumping experience. They may add better ways to balance that as time goes on though. Still very few 1 hit kill type setups, but still giving the Vet a fighting chance against lesser foes.
I agree that many add in what they have experienced in other games, both expectations and disappointments, information given turning out to be false and never coming into being. I'm still hopeful that PFO becomes something new and different. It already is too me but maybe not to most.
I would have to say that a battle between 1 vet and 4 players only a month old would most likely go to the 4 players if they were at all coordinated. I would account for this based on synergy of feats, interrupts, knockdowns so forth that you have 4x the possibility of pulling off and could have those 4 players at level 6-8 in that time with decently rounded equipment. Even if a few levels lower 4 on one has a chance. If you are just talking stand in a circle and let the Vet line you up and hit you, he has a chance, but if you even spread out a little with some ranged, a Fighter and Rogue tag team, a cleric healing them and so forth, the Vet is going down. Maybe not easily but a very good portion of the time.
Sure when you look at just the numbers it goes the way of the vet but what happens when that Rogue disengages after the first 3 hits, has the Cleric heal him while the Fighter is knocking the Vet down, and the Wizard is freezing the Vet? As soon as the Vet gets the Fighter down a bit he makes a bit of a run for it and the Vet can chase all the while getting hit by the other three. The Vet is toast. Play out out in a real battle and that's what happens most of the time. Sure the Vet will have skills and tricks and equipment but with the graduated power curve as long as the 4 aren't day 1 characters I'm pretty sure they could own the Vet in that setup. Even if they are day 1 characters with experienced players they could wreck havoc. Again, play through it with the low level skills and equipment of 4 to 1 higher powered but still single opponent.
That is my take on things from playing over the last 2 months.
Thanks Xeen, I agree with most of what you said here. I don't have anything to offer on the items I don't agree with so will just leave those alone. I do see that things are moving along and with constructive criticism like this (and if people respond with agreement) I think GW will listen. The game has already come a long way from early Alpha and many of the systems are starting to fall into place. With a few more months development as we enter EE, I'm pretty sure many of the issues you have mentioned will work themselves out between GW and the community. Again. thanks and I'm happy you shared this.
To be fair, I feel the game is ready for me. I didn't state it that way. I would still pay to support it and keep it alive even in it's current state and even if I didn't think it was ready to help it get there. Most wouldn't, but then again, we have all paid for the Kickstarter or EE, so we have in fact already paid. If you feel they shouldn't count that purchased time against our accounts until what you consider is MVP, that is totally fine. As I said, I am fine with paying now.
I'm not being naive about this actually. I know that for most MVP is all critical and not worth even paying for that. What I was saying is that for me, "MY" MVP has already been reached. For 99% of others that is most likely not the case. As "MY" MVP has been reached, I'm willing to pay and wait for it to evolve. That doesn't lessen the industry as there are those on the opposite end of the scale who would not be willing to pay even once it is OE.
I do get what you are saying though. I have little care for the expense. Facebook is cheaper indeed, but it isn't PFO, and when I'm talking about the community, I'm not just talking about any social Interaction, but those built around and for PFO. Again, MY MVP may not be what 99% of others would accept. IT is just what I would.
My personal feelings on the release is that they could release on the 15th of Sept and I would be fine with it. I don't have a concern about paying the subscription fee for a product that is not MVP. MVP hasn't been fully defined other than in broad terms. What I would like and that I believe we are getting with Alpha 8 is the server being up all week. At that moment, I would be willing to start paying a subscription fee. Even if my character was wiped. Even if all the systems aren't in for what some expect of MVP. The reason for this is that I'm here to play, with friends, with this community. Even if Alpha 7 or even Alpha 1 was what they decided was good enough for MVP I would still be happy to pay and participate. I know that isn't what most people think or feel. To me we already have more than I expected at this time. I'm perfectly happy to start with what we have and will be thrilled as reach new addition is added, each bug fixed. Doesn't effect me being willing and interested in playing what we have now (and even paying for it).
That is due to all of you. This community is the MVP for me. The game is just a place to host it, with more bells and whistles than the forums, and more being added weekly. If I can be in the game with all of you I'll be happy to wait until whenever they get around to adding the features as they can.
Black Silver of The Veiled, T7V wrote:
That is what I was hoping to hear man! I thought it would be a good idea to get you into the game early for reasons like this and get comfortable so you can have plenty of fun on day 1 (or Sept 15th). Really glad to hear it's working well for you! :)
Andius the Afflicted wrote:
I can see safe spawn points being a viable solution for the character who was killed but I am also looking at ways for the killer to have the option for a small to no penalty to take out anyone once but after that not being able to easily have himself or a friend repeat killing the same person without a much steeper penalty.
Either way, thanks for the feedback.
Andius the Afflicted wrote:
I would think for large scale battles that you would have clerics on standby at spawn points to mitigate the dead stacks and injuries and get their warriors back to the battle, that is if they are not just rezzed on the battlefield. Clerics should be able to remove the death debuff stacks or a tavern either completely or at an accelerated rate. This would also again reduce the rep penalty back to a first kill level of only minor or nothing if they are a cleric or have a cleric friend removing the penalties each time they spawn. They would still lose durability and any none threaded gear so there are still down sides to being or having a cleric handy to remove the debuffs.
I would suggest that on respawn you do have some sort of debuff stacks like Andius laid out but to keep things balenced and to stop spawn camping when someone has these debuffs have a sliding scale directly proportional of rep hit to an attacker (even if the spawned normally would be a rep free kill) for killing them again while having recently dead stacks. Maybe this could be extended to having a much smaller rep hit with the first kill of a non-consenting PvPer but would escalate rapidly with kills of dead stacked characters. This could also lead to it being viable to kill someone poaching your land once without incurring huge rep loss if they are unaffiliated and high rep but not over and over again. You kill them because they are ninja harvesting, get a small rep hit, loot their corpse, they get dead stacks that reduce their effectiveness for a while and lose their stuff. It it stops greifing them as further kills while they have stacks as this would 10-100x the rep loss. If they come back for more you can be right there waiting for them and once the stacks are gone drop them again if they don't leave. This is even if they are not feuded or at war or opposite faction and so forth. I'm sure there are plenty of holes in this idea but with a dead stack debuff penalty both sides lose something and it gives meaning with scaling consequences on both sides for greifing either as a Ninja harvester or a spawn camper.
Ok people, let's see how you tear that idea apart. Has this already been thought of and dropped before? If so I missed it but it would seem to tie in well with all mechanics so far described in the game while still allowing bandits to kill once indiscriminately with a rep loss that could recover in say 20 minutes instead of days for a first kill but easily jump to 20 hrs or days for repeat offenses. Of course legitimate targets don't have any rep hit for first kills and only minor but scaling for further kills on dead stacked respawns who jump right back into it but they start really becoming less effectve if they do.
So what do you all think?
This, this exactly!
Lord Regent: Deacon Wulf wrote:
This is a good move for T7V. Encouraging PvP within your Sub-communities will help defend your playstyle and theme.
Thanks Deacon, and as Nihimon said, we have always had it, many may just have not been aware of that fact. We are building up faster now, and as the game is coming together will be getting everything organized (sometimes in a very chaotic way) to make all our members styles a reality. We do have many who are PVP oriented and those that aren't we plan to give plenty of opportunity to learn how by setting an example of how it can be fun, positive, and game building, and not always negative as some see it.
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
We don't play with poodles. Kobolds are a different matter. Come and play?
There will be those that don't have it in them, and we do have to stay at least slightly neutral to stay in our home, but there is no intent to be wishy washy about cutting the hearts out of our enemies or targets. Some may not enjoy it, but others are lined up to the jobs. You're welcome to come join us and find out. Granted, we can't go full bat sh*t crazy evil, but there is plenty to be had in the NE zone.