Races of the Inner Sea? When is this expected? I just looked at both the Campaign Setting and Player Companion lines and I didn't see that come up... am I missing it?
Oh? Cool! (64 page campaign setting book I imagine, not a hardcover like Inner Sea Gods). Although, that WOULD be awesome.
Thanks.
If the book was supposed to be released by April/May then they would have had the items description up by now.
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Golarion's Elves, Gnomes and various Human ethinicities are definitely not stereotypical Tolkienesque.
Dwarves are, but who cares about them anyway?
Elves, dwarves, orcs, and halflings are classic Tolkien. You can put different spins on them, but having some variety of each of those races is (unfortunately) all too common in rpgs. It's not that I mind having them there, but Pathfinder already has a huge amount of material for them, as do most other fantasy games. If I'm going to pay for a new hardcover book, it needs to be something that offers me new interesting playable races or a lot more interesting information about the existing playable races that aren't elves, dwarves, orcs, halflings, or some variant on those.
I wonder how many non-core races will get some love in this book.
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If the book was supposed to be released by April/May then they would have had the items description up by now.
According to the Pathfinder wiki, it will be out in September. The original date (according to the catalog) was for May 2015, but obviously that is not the case.
Personally, I would prefer a mixture of new and core races. I would prefer a 50/50 balance or at most a 60/40 balance of core/new races.
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1) A rule that allows for nonhuman races to pick their regional language. As it stands, a sylph that lived all her life in Taldor can't pick Taldane as a language (unless they spend Linguistics points). Of course I can house rule it, and have done so, but such a fundamental issue should not need to be house ruled.
whilst I agree with this as a concept I feel the need to point out that almost everyone speaks Taldane as according to Golarion Fluff Taldane is what's referred to as Common by most players.
OK...since this book is clearly not what I was hoping it was going to be...and in an attempt to still put a positive spin on it...what would you like to see regarding the core 7 that has not covered already ?
Aquatic Elves, they say they exist on Golarion, but otherwise they
ignore them.
Some new types of dwarves would be nice.
I wish they would add Tallfellow and Stout Halflings or at least something like them.
New type of Orcs would be nice since we have several types of goblinoids.
Forest gnomes would be cool.
I am so over humans I can't really think of anything for them.
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whilst I agree with this as a concept I feel the need to point out that almost everyone speaks Taldane as according to Golarion Fluff Taldane is what's referred to as Common by most players.1) A rule that allows for nonhuman races to pick their regional language. As it stands, a sylph that lived all her life in Taldor can't pick Taldane as a language (unless they spend Linguistics points). Of course I can house rule it, and have done so, but such a fundamental issue should not need to be house ruled.
Okay, then let's move away from Taldor/Taldane and look at a sylph who lived all her life in Lands of the Linnorm Kings, about on the exact opposite side of Avistan from Taldor. Her automatic languages are *still* Auran and Common (Taldane), and she can't pick Skald, her native region's language at all, unless she uses Linguistics.
Okay, then let's move away from Taldor/Taldane and look at a sylph who lived all her life in Lands of the Linnorm Kings, about on the exact opposite side of Avistan from Taldor. Her automatic languages are *still* Auran and Common (Taldane), and she can't pick Skald, her native region's language at all, unless she uses Linguistics.
We simply house rule that all characters gain their ethnic language.
As all of the "Bastard" races are supposedly born to a human...they have an ethnicity that should be accounted for by language.
^Golarion already does have Pahmet Dwarves in Osirion, although I don't know how much they are fleshed out, or in which supplement(s).
OK...since this book is clearly not what I was hoping it was going to be...and in an attempt to still put a positive spin on it...what would you like to see regarding the core 7 that has not covered already ?
To be honest, I can't think of anything they could do with the core 7 races that would entice me into paying for the book.
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I am looking forward to this book. Paizo's interpretation of the core seven races has been interesting, for the most part. I admit the dwarves are a bit dry comparatively but they have enhanced that with some of the newer material.
I look forward to new material on those 7 races and any more information on other races found in the Inner Sea.
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^Golarion already does have Pahmet Dwarves in Osirion, although I don't know how much they are fleshed out, or in which supplement(s).
There are also variant dwarf cultures in the Mwangi expanse as well, but I don't think much has been done with them.
Dwarves also exist in the Crown of the World, but no clue how much they vary from the more southern dwarves
{. . .} We simply house rule that all characters gain their ethnic language.
Actually, I think this is already Rules As Intended, because while Common is Taldane in the Inner Sea Region (or at least most of it), Common is Tien in Tian-Xia.
As all of the "Bastard" races are supposedly born to a human...they have an ethnicity that should be accounted for by language.
Except that this isn't universally true -- Aasimars and Tieflings have rules sidebars allowing them to be born of non-Human Humanoids, although unfortunately the same sidebars declare the differences in result to be only cosmetic. Some of the others (Changelings and Elemental-Touched, at least) SHOULD get at least this type of sidebar, but don't.
Where were stats given for Eoxians?
In AP#63, They are basically human with a +4Int -4Con instead of the normal human +2 to any one stat.
It is indeed hardcover like ISG.
"Whaaaaaaa"?!?!?!?
That is Awe. Some.
(Glad I resubscribed to the Campaign Setting line). :)
As all of the "Bastard" races are supposedly born to a human...they have an ethnicity that should be accounted for by language.Except that this isn't universally true -- Aasimars and Tieflings have rules sidebars allowing them to be born of non-Human Humanoids, although unfortunately the same sidebars declare the differences in result to be only cosmetic. Some of the others (Changelings and Elemental-Touched, at least) SHOULD get at least this type of sidebar, but don't.
In those situations I would allow them to take the appropriate racial language...so for example an Aasimar born to Elf parents would gain Elven as a language.
I want to see the book itself in late September, with no further schedule slips. I would really hate to have to wait until February of 2017 to see this book.
From the department of expectation management: This book is going to focus HEAVILY on the core races, and not so much on the other races. Just as Inner Sea Gods compiled and expanded upon the deity articles we published in Pathfinder, so will Races of the Inenr Sea compile and expand upon the earlier race books we published in the Player Companion line; things like Elves of Golarion and Dwarves of Golarion, which are close to or are now out of print and/or have some early material from 3.5 or early Golarion that wasn't quite on model with where we are right now in Golarion.
There WILL be plenty of new stuff in the book though—never fear there—but the book's purpose is not to provide hundreds of pages of content on obscure races like lashunta, catfolk, triaxians, monkey goblins, ghorans, androids, etc.. Some of those will have some info in the book, some won't... but the bulk of it will be focused on humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, half-elves, half-orcs, and gnomes.
Creatures with racial hit dice, such as dark folk, aren't appropriate player choices and won't be represented in this book at all, really.
Oh, no. Is this going to be a repeat of information already printed in what, three (or is it four?) books? To snag my interest, it will have to be some brand-spanking new info that doesn't touch on what's already out there as just a lather-rinse-repeat cycle. I'd much rather see new information on those obscure races just for that very reason; that they are obscure.
And at the point of sounding hypocritical, I will admit that my favored racial stock is elf and half-elf, but they've been pretty much done to death over the years with every sub-race and all. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't find totally new information uninteresting, it's only that so much has been done already I don't see much more can be accomplished that's truly new and different. I'll wait and see.
And monkey goblins are only good for stew. ;)
Well I had heard about this awhile back and was super excited but now that I know it is about the core races mostly I'm going to have to say nope. Have plenty of info on Humans, Halflings, Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, Half-elf, and half-orcs. The number of people who have said similar things seems to indicate that there is a desire for more info on the non-core races. I was really hoping that there would be info on Lizardfolk and Gnolls cause they are pretty iconic in rpgs to me and i feel like if orcs and drow have proper write-ups as playable races so should the Lizardfolk and Gnolls.
I am really hoping to see if Aquatic Elves are in Golarion or not... cause they have stats and half elf-stats but no info on them in the setting at all... seems odd
No Monkey Goblins no deal :P
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I'm hoping it'll make it so I never have to buy Halflings of Golarion, Elves of Golarion, Humans of Golarion, etc.
And, you know what, I think I'll get just that.
Plus, if it's anything like Inner Sea Gods, it'll be beautiful and I think they'll add just enough new stuff to make old fans want to buy it too.
Is this still happening? I can't find a product entry for it.
They haven't made a product entry for it yet and it's release date seems to have be pushed back to later this year.
They haven't made a product entry for it yet and it's release date seems to have be pushed back to later this year.
It's still happening, but not until we fill the developer position, so until we have that person in here, its release date is uncertain. We're expecting it for fall of this year, though.
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Well I had heard about this awhile back and was super excited but now that I know it is about the core races mostly I'm going to have to say nope. Have plenty of info on Humans, Halflings, Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, Half-elf, and half-orcs. The number of people who have said similar things seems to indicate that there is a desire for more info on the non-core races. I was really hoping that there would be info on Lizardfolk and Gnolls cause they are pretty iconic in rpgs to me and i feel like if orcs and drow have proper write-ups as playable races so should the Lizardfolk and Gnolls.
I am really hoping to see if Aquatic Elves are in Golarion or not... cause they have stats and half elf-stats but no info on them in the setting at all... seems odd
No Monkey Goblins no deal :P
There are significant sections on other races, like androids, dhampirs, strix, aliens, the Dragon Empire races, aasimars, geniekin, and yes, goblins, too. I don't recall there being monkey goblins, though.
From the department of expectation management: This book is going to focus HEAVILY on the core races, and not so much on the other races. Just as Inner Sea Gods compiled and expanded upon the deity articles we published in Pathfinder, so will Races of the Inenr Sea compile and expand upon the earlier race books we published in the Player Companion line; things like Elves of Golarion and Dwarves of Golarion, which are close to or are now out of print and/or have some early material from 3.5 or early Golarion that wasn't quite on model with where we are right now in Golarion.
There WILL be plenty of new stuff in the book though—never fear there—but the book's purpose is not to provide hundreds of pages of content on obscure races like lashunta, catfolk, triaxians, monkey goblins, ghorans, androids, etc.. Some of those will have some info in the book, some won't... but the bulk of it will be focused on humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, half-elves, half-orcs, and gnomes.
Creatures with racial hit dice, such as dark folk, aren't appropriate player choices and won't be represented in this book at all, really.
Oh, no. Is this going to be a repeat of information already printed in what, three (or is it four?) books? To snag my interest, it will have to be some brand-spanking new info that doesn't touch on what's already out there as just a lather-rinse-repeat cycle. I'd much rather see new information on those obscure races just for that very reason; that they are obscure.
And at the point of sounding hypocritical, I will admit that my favored racial stock is elf and half-elf, but they've been pretty much done to death over the years with every sub-race and all. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't find totally new information uninteresting, it's only that so much has been done already I don't see much more can be accomplished that's truly new and different. I'll wait and see.
And monkey goblins are only good for stew. ;)
There's new content in each section. It's still intended to be the definitive resource on each of these races; each section is an overview, so the bulk of the actual information is still likely also said elsewhere (a big part of the work of each section has been rounding up everything we've said about each race and deciding what we want to keep), but there is new content for almost all the races. (There are some sections, like "Aliens" that are just brief surveys of other races that fall into that category; since it's so brief I can't say for certain whether any of that information is new, but for all of the races that get their own section, there are new ideas or expansions on ideas that have only been touched on previously.)
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There are significant sections on other races, like androids, dhampirs, strix, aliens, the Dragon Empire races, aasimars, geniekin, and yes, goblins, too.
'significant' and section*s*, plural, puts this back on my must-buy list after James' Department of Expectation Management had put that into doubt. Really looking forward to more information. I could *really* use more fleshing out of non-core races. And doing a big table that pulls together everything from everywhere (like the deity list at the end of Inner Sea Gods) of all player character races and their subraces/heritages (like the ones in Blood of Fiends/Angels) would be a killer app.
Well if your definition of "significant" means at least 4 pages then I am sold.
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So, while paginations change during development, editing and layout, as currently structured, this book contains:
- A very long section on humans, with significant (multi-page) sections on each major human ethnicity
- 8-page sections on each core race
- 6-page sections on each of a second tier of player races (aasimars, tieflings, kobolds, goblins, etc.)
- Spreads on each example of a third tier of player races (catfolk, dhampirs, fetchlings, strix, etc.)
- New rules content: magic items, spells, etc.
Bear in mind, as far as the lengths of these sections go, that unlike in the ARG, the rules content for each race is in a separate section (like it was in Inner Sea Gods. So when I say "6 pages," I mean six pages of text and images focused completely on the nature, culture, ways of thinking, and place in the world of the Inner Sea region for each race. It's not broken up with archetypes or feats or whatever.
I am fine with just pages of text in each races' section, I would love more info on the non-core races.
Well, if anything, could the people who are broke as hell read the stuff about the races online, for free? Without it being PFS legal? I really like lore, I just have no money, I merely want to read.
Hey snickersimba, I don't know if this is a viable option where you live but I certainly hope it is. Most US library systems have systems in place to let patrons request that the library add particular books to their collections (bigger libraries frequently even have a form on their website for this--heck, my library does here in Lexington, Kentucky and it's not even that big a system). If, as I said, it's an option where you live, you should plump for your library to buy some Pathfinder books. Some libraries even have patron-run game days using books owned by the library, though I know in your case you just want to read the lore.
Snickersimba: well, we're in the business of selling books to make money, so no, I don't think you're going to see this book online for free any time soon.
That said, there's nothing to stop you from going to a book/game store and taking a look at physical copies of our books, checking them out from libraries that carry gaming books, etc.
EDIT: Great info from Christopher Rowe, above, on getting libraries to carry gaming books.
I wish on this shooting star for a race or 2 to become permanantley legal in pfs play.
And anthropromorphic llamas.
Well, what is and isn't legal for PFS play is decided by different people than the ones who decide what goes in Campaign Setting books, so you'll have to talk to Mike Brock about that.
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So, while paginations change during development, editing and layout, as currently structured, this book contains:
[list]
6-page sections on each of a second tier of player races (aasimars, tieflings, kobolds, goblins, etc.)
So...a total of 12 pages of aasimar and tiefling fluff?
SOLD.
Would be interested in hearing a more complete list of the second tier races, but I can wait.
Apparently the second and third tier aren't the same breakdown as in the ARG, considering the likes of catfolk and dhampirs being in the third tier instead of the second.
Personally I'd like to see more PC-appropriate races in the second tier like catfolk, and the more monstrous/enemy races like kobolds and goblins in the third tier, but that's just my personal preference.
So I wonder if the 6-page and 2-page sections are all fluff, how much crunch will there be for the second and third tier races. And if it will be somewhat the same ratio as the fluff (as in 8:6 ratio between core races and second tier races -- i.e. aasimars having about 75% of the crunch compared to say elves).
Of course I'm not asking for answers here, since these things are probably in flux, I'm more just musing out loud.
If I *could* expect a second tier race to have 75% of the crunch compared to a core race, I would be a very happy camper.
I would really like to see androids as a second tier race, compensating for their entire absence from the ARG. But that's probably expecting too much.
If the lashunta are on the third tier list and can get two entire pages of fluff, I will be ecstatic.
I wonder if geniekin will be second or third tier. They seem like they would be a fairly top PC-appropriate race after the core races, but 24 entire pages of fluff out of the book's entire page count seems like a big chunk to spend on geniekin.
In fact, considering lots of pages on humans, 8 pages on each of the other core races, 6 pages on second tier races and 2 pages on third tier races, it seems like there's going to be a *lot* of fluff. I wonder what the fluff/crunch ratio of the entire book will roughly be like.
If there's "multi-page" sections on each of the human ethnicities, and there's 12 listed in the ISWG, let's say 4 pages each, that's 48 pages on humans. 8*6 = 48 on the other core races. 6* let's say six second tier races = 36. 2* what, twelve third tier races = 24. That's 156 pages of fluff alone. If it's a 256 page hardcover, that does leave about 40% of it for crunch, but I may be lowballing the number of second and third tier races, so those could quickly chew up much more space.
So...a total of 12 pages of aasimar and tiefling fluff?So, while paginations change during development, editing and layout, as currently structured, this book contains:
[list]
6-page sections on each of a second tier of player races (aasimars, tieflings, kobolds, goblins, etc.)
Yup! That's the current structure. :-)
Would be interested in hearing a more complete list of the second tier races, but I can wait.
Well, I think we need to leave SOME surprises.
Apparently the second and third tier aren't the same breakdown as in the ARG, considering the likes of catfolk and dhampirs being in the third tier instead of the second.
Personally I'd like to see more PC-appropriate races in the second tier like catfolk, and the more monstrous/enemy races like kobolds and goblins in the third tier, but that's just my personal preference.
Bear in mind that this is a setting-focused book. The ARG treats aasimars and dhampirs as essentially equivalent because from a mechanics perspective, they are equivalent: non-core PC races with standardized ability score adjustments, racial abilities, etc.
From a setting perspective, however, they're not equivalent at all. Aasimars are considerably more rare than elves and humans and dwarves, and they're also less central to Inner Sea culture and history. Dwarves have had much more influence in shaping the Inner Sea region than aasimars. Dhampirs are another tier down even from aasimars. They're rare -- plenty of people in the Inner Sea may not even know they exist. I can only think of one dhampir character in our canon. So they're just not as significant in what makes up Inner Sea populations and culture and lore as the races that are in what I've called the "second tier."
I wonder if geniekin will be second or third tier. They seem like they would be a fairly top PC-appropriate race after the core races, but 24 entire pages of fluff out of the book's entire page count seems like a big chunk to spend on geniekin.
Geniekin get a six-page section of their own, but they're combined into one section (it's not a section per type of geniekin).
So do the third tier races get a single page each or does it vary?
It's a shame that the Monkey Goblins didn't make it in but I do hope that Ghorans, Kuru, and Shabti got in.
So do the third tier races get a single page each or does it vary?
They each get a spread (2 pages).