Goblin Squad Member
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While I'm all for the PVP love tapping that is possible, my company and I are policing the town of Marchmont as it is our temporary home. We will not permit unwarranted attacks within the towns limits. If we see you 'RED' we will engage and ask questions later.
Suffice to say, leave the pajama clad newbies alone so they can learn to kill goblins and craft. I have 3 notches on my belt these past two days alone. Test us if you want to.
That is all, happy new year everyone!
Atheory
Allegiant Gemstone Company
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Goblin Squad Member
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The fact that there is dead space in towns where the guards dont get you is a bit sad.
With good stealth its not hard to sneak around most towns even with really neg rep. At one stage stealth-ing about TK and sniping the people setting up craft queues (if sound is off you have no idea you are being shot at) was a thing for a while.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I hope at least in NPC-towns, people will be safe. In PC-towns, it should depend on the level of security that a town can provide for its members by upgrading guards and guard towers, which is probably also an indicator of its Tier(high) and wealth.
The fact that NPC-towns will only provide Tier 1 and maybe some basic Tier 2 utility should be the major incentive for people to move to a PC town.
I think Rep regenerates way too fast as it is, tbh.
I am fine with Bandits preying on loot-carrying folk, however untill SAD is implemented, killing an innocent should come with severe repercussions, as long as no Feuds or Wars are involved, or opposite factions. Currently none of that is implemented, so we only have a simple rep-system in place to prevent people to battle boredom by killing random players twice a day (after which rep regens to full within a day).
My hope is that Feuds, Wars, Bandits with SAD and Factions will provide enough basis for a lot of PvP. This also means that people must be able to *see* with whom they are dealing with. So COmpany name and town affiliations should be readily noticable. Also kill-mails(a message that tells you who killed you), as we have spoken about before.
Again, none of this is implemented, so shit comes out of the blue for now, which makes random kills even more annoying since people and their allies can not be called on it. Which is the point of Politics and Diplpomacy, and necessary to plant the seeds of War and Feuds in this Game of Thrones.
As long as none of these systems are implemented, Rep should tank hard for an unwarranted kill.
I am one of those folks that would accept SAD's within certain reason: it is my pacifist (and opportunist) Merchant nature. If my money does not satisfy your bloodlust and you decide to forego a SAD and downright kill me, it should come with penalties, unless I have passed into lands that have set up different laws, like FFA: again, the game should notify you of this(you have entered the Fiefdom of Aragon, beware of its laws), so that players can take a calculated risk by getting the hell out of there. Part of this knowledge should come from informing yourself by learning the lands but the game must provide some measure of information too.
Again, not implemented, so for now, reps should tank as the only measure to prevent this game from becoming known as a murdersim.
PS: I am also getting rather fond of the Gemstone Company. I probably should stop researching the effects of spells like Minor Cure on myself, by first lowering my HP with some self inflicted arrow-wounds. I noticed this makes you Red and gives you the aggressor flag. :)
So don't do this when standing next to Atheory.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Tyncale
If NPC towns were safe, you would fall into the trap of thinking they are safe. It's a trap because there will always be those who don't care about reputation and they will suicide gank you, just to prove you were not safe.
At this stage of development you lose nothing more than 1/20th of your equipment durability, which is substantially less than what had been said in Blogs and posts of the past two years.
None of the more meaningful PvP features of the game are in yet, so you will continue to see more of these acts of PvP. If there is any delay in WoT, you will see even more if it, because day one players will be hitting the role cap of 8 (maybe by this weekend) and there will be little else for them to spend their xp on or time doing other things.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, I agree the lands are pretty safe still(I haven't had any trouble yet, Cal). I am not worried yet. I am just afraid that once looting goes in, things will get a lot worse, without the other systems implemented yet, like SAD or Feuds which could channel the lust for PvP. If I am part of a Company that has a Feud going, and I am gathering, then I am definately a legit loot target. That is a calculated risk. So far things have been pretty civil though.
I agree that newbies need to wet their feet in this PvP world. Not sure how you can make that a gradual thing. I guess totally safe areas may not be the answer.
I also realize that you will never be able to "channel" *all* PvP: I can understand how that word would offend some folks. So by all means, go wreck your Reputation if you see a particular fat and defenseless loot target. This is not harassment, however it should have consequences.
Right now, there are hardly any. There will be in the future, since I still believe that the best way to curb this is to make players less powerfull (no training). Keep the ganking to a minimum.
Bandits vs Merchants with the possibility of SAD is an entirely different story. There are choices and options there.
There is one thing that will ruin this game imo: and that is if the *only* way to leave town is to always do this in a group. In the end its a matter of statistics. I realize you can't give to many loopholes to avoid PvP because then you will kill the game too. Basically we need all those systems that are in the designdoc.
Untill then: be on the safe side with PvP. This game needs to grow into PvP. If you want to kill random folk, right now, and a lot fo them, there's FPS-es and other games for that.
Not really talking directly to you, Bludd.
There is one thing that will ruin this game imo: and that is if the *only* way to leave town is to always do this in a group. In the end its a matter of statistics. I realize you can't give to many loopholes to avoid PvP because then you will kill the game too. Basically we need all those systems that are in the designdoc.
Respectfully, I disagree.
What will kill this game is if it is boring as hell. Fighting against mobs is boring (IMHO) because they are predictable and easy to beat.
Humans are the ultimate prey, in real life and in games. Even if not in fights but in games of commerce or politics.
You say being ganked outside town is a problem? What I see is an opportunity for said town to band together and take on the threat. Wouldn't that be so much fun? People would talk about it for months. "Remember that time Marchmont took on those bandits and showed them what for?"
Nobody is going to talk about the escalation they cleared two weeks ago.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Leaving a town currently shouldn't be a problem as you can leave in any directions. Bandits will have a hard time watching the complete boundary. It would need more bandits patrolling (10+ at least) then players inside the settlement.
Entering is a different issue as settlements only tend to have 3 directions to enter properly.
All this might change with walls.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well there is some "meaningful" PvP in the sense that gatherers of rare resources have taken to shooting at people gathering in "their" area in some regions.
I agree this is meaningful, however I expect that this is exactly the kind of thing that gets "channeled" into Feuds, and ultimately, Wars. I see that as a good thing: in fact, there is much more consequence then, then there is now. People only suffer mild rep-loss and do not have to answer yet to their settlements or even companies since they are not getting them into trouble yet. Though I can see blacklists aris though.
The lands are pretty free right now too: once settlements gets established, I will be much more careful entering hexes that are adjoining certain Settlements. I feel they have some right to them and once all the political systems are in, they have more tools to exercize these rights.
Even now, without any systems, there are kills that I can understand and kills that I consider ganking and should give heavy rep-loss.
When I am gathering in an Aragon hex, without even announcing myself, and I get killed by an Aragonian, you will not hear me complain. Actually, I will, since I am part of the NAP but still. :)
When I get killed by some random guy when I am at the AH in Marchmont, that is ganking.
At some point, I hope a player gets warned about local laws, we should see Company and Settlement affiliation, and players should have means to learn about the current political landscape(some website or even in-game tool). And off course by listening to other players.
talking about blacklists: I must admit that this is another great advantage of the way XP works in PFO. Wrecking your *mechanical* Reputation is one thing (and very repairable, however wrecking your *real* reputation is going to literally cost you, if you do not like the consequences it has to your gaming.
I guess that takes us to Rotters Hole and Grimey Town. :) Which again become political entities, places to avoid, or places to raid.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Leaving a town currently shouldn't be a problem as you can leave in any directions. Bandits will have a hard time watching the complete boundary. It would need more bandits patrolling (10+ at least) then players inside the settlement.
Entering is a different issue as settlements only tend to have 3 directions to enter properly.
All this might change with walls.
And with some levels in Pioneer and atravel domain you can out-distance anything but a clever ambush, which would be a reward in it self.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There is one thing that will ruin this game imo: and that is if the *only* way to leave town is to always do this in a group. In the end its a matter of statistics. I realize you can't give to many loopholes to avoid PvP because then you will kill the game too. Basically we need all those systems that are in the designdoc.Respectfully, I disagree.
What will kill this game is if it is boring as hell. Fighting against mobs is boring (IMHO) because they are predictable and easy to beat.
Humans are the ultimate prey, in real life and in games. Even if not in fights but in games of commerce or politics.
You say being ganked outside town is a problem? What I see is an opportunity for said town to band together and take on the threat. Wouldn't that be so much fun? People would talk about it for months. "Remember that time Marchmont took on those bandits and showed them what for?"
Nobody is going to talk about the escalation they cleared two weeks ago.
I should be more specific. If it is at all times possible for people to do stuff solo with some minor risk, then the game will be wrecked too.
I am more talking about the situation where going outside the walls alone, is a guaranteed suicide run. If you think this does not exist, think about WvW in GW2.
This has the most stupidest PvP ever. It is actually built on some of the same premisses as PFO: you build, you conquer keeps, you have to haul resources in order to build and such. However the PvP is absolutely *mindless*.
There is *zero* judgment to be made about wether or not one should kill the enemy that you spot, or run. Players from different "colors" (which means "sides") will *always* either run, or fight, depending on simple Math. How many of them and how many of us?
Needless to say this math gets even simpler when you try to leave the gates alone in GW2. Better not run into 3other players: run. 2 other players: run if you suck. 1 other player: run if you suck, fight if you are good. Enemy players have zero personality, zero *history*, you need zero judgment on a poiltical level.
Other color? Fight or run, depending on the count.
Now *that's* boring.
Less boring though still than fighting NPC mobs, in my opinion.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Less boring though still than fighting NPC mobs, in my opinion.
Well, I will admit that that gets pretty boring too. Btw, I agree with your assesment with how things should play out on a player-level in PFO. I just think the political framework is still missing, amongst other things like being able to check to what company and settlement someone belongs that I encounter in the wild.
I am a big proponent of players needing to have an affiliation to a settlement or a Company. Players need to answer to something, or get sidelined. If this accountability on a personal, Company and Settlement level really takes off, then people can start to take calculated risks.
If I am wandering the lands alone, while my Company has a Feud going, my Settlement has a War going, I am on Merchant faction and are carrying fat loot, while trespassing the lands of a known, agressive Settlement that houses a Bandit company, I should have like 1% chance to make it alive.
And every grade in between there.
I am actually already making calculations: I have high perception(aganst Stealthers), Travel Domain, Agile Feet, never am encumbered, have a constant eye on my minimap, R+Ctrl on a G15 keyboard hotkey, and just looted Augment, which seems like a fantastic "get out of jail card" with its 350 Self heal (Trophy Charm Manouver). UNfortunately I need a Students Trophy for that (it is level 2), so WTB. :)
Does anyone know of good feats or skills to take to negate Stuns, slows, entangle and other impairing or immobilizing states?
The fact that nobody's complaining about how harsh the reputation system is any more, combined with the amount of random killing going on, seems a pretty clear indicator that it's been softened up too much.
Oh, it is too harsh.
The only reason you don't hear me complain is I'm aware that we'll be given the means for sanctioned PvP in a week or two, and later we'll get feuds.
THIS rep system, without WoT coming in a week or two would have had me refuse to activate this month, as well as abstaining from buying the 2nd account I bought Saturday.
The rep system *IS* harsh and horrid and makes it impossible to keep DETERMINED people away from you while you exploit your favorite nodes/mobs/etc.
It is also making it impossible to recruit friends from the other passive xp sandbox game (Eve-Online) to come to this one.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In terms of settlements and "blacklisting" players that is going to be tricky to manage.
Basically under the curren tsystem the Settlement approves the companies and teh Company Leader approves the company members. Individuals do not apply to join a settlement they apply to join a company.
This means settlement leaders will need to work very closely with company leaders if any sort of settlement wide control of indvidual members is to take place.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The fates seemed to have placed me in Marchmont so I will chime in here.
The world is pretty big and open. I rarely saw someone else while running around in the 2-3 hexes of Marchmont. Even if I got "ganked" it is just a mild annoyance right now. Player loot will add more risk/reward.
I am reminded of early EVE. Lots of open space and random PvP that is mostly an annoyance. Over time when there are more people and good means of control and reputation this will become more interesting.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Right now it is impossible to keep people away from what we consider ours. The combination of rep loss to the attacker and only taking 1 durability hit for the person being attacked makes the risk reward for trespassing to gather things way to amazing. This will fix itself once i can loot bodies.
Reputation is fine atm.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I originally thought that Shared Storage would - hands down - win any Crowdforging Poll. Then I thought Buy Orders would probably give it a serious run for its money. Now I think that Territorial Control Settings (NRDS, NBSI) would be pretty popular, too...
Crowdforging is going to be a game in itself :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I originally thought that Shared Storage would - hands down - win any Crowdforging Poll. Then I thought Buy Orders would probably give it a serious run for its money. Now I think that Territorial Control Settings (NRDS, NBSI) would be pretty popular, too...
Crowdforging is going to be a game in itself :)
Instead of speculating why not put up a poll and find out?
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Instead of speculating why not put up a poll and find out?I originally thought that Shared Storage would - hands down - win any Crowdforging Poll. Then I thought Buy Orders would probably give it a serious run for its money. Now I think that Territorial Control Settings (NRDS, NBSI) would be pretty popular, too...
Crowdforging is going to be a game in itself :)
Because that would suggest that they are all mutually exclusive. Eventually all of these conditions / systems will exist.
Shared Bank Vaults... Check
Player Husk Looting... Check
Territorial Control using both NBSI and NRDS.. Check
Consequences for unsanctioned PVP... Check
Reputation Neutral forms of PVP... Check
Non Consensual PVP and Consensual PVP... Check
Players who care so much about consequences they never PVP... Check
Players who don't care at all about consequences... Check
Care Bears... Check
Griefers... Check
In other words... Open World PVP, Sandbox, MMO... Check
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Goblin Squad Member
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Instead of speculating why not put up a poll and find out?I originally thought that Shared Storage would - hands down - win any Crowdforging Poll. Then I thought Buy Orders would probably give it a serious run for its money. Now I think that Territorial Control Settings (NRDS, NBSI) would be pretty popular, too...
Crowdforging is going to be a game in itself :)
Because that would suggest that they are all mutually exclusive. Eventually all of these conditions / systems will exist.
Shared Bank Vaults... Check
Player Husk Looting... Check
Territorial Control using both NBSI and NRDS.. Check
Consequences for unsanctioned PVP... Check
Reputation Neutral forms of PVP... Check
Non Consensual PVP and Consensual PVP... Check
Players who care so much about consequences they never PVP... Check
Players who don't care at all about consequences... Check
Care Bears... Check
Griefers... CheckIn other words... Open World PVP, Sandbox, MMO... Check
I believe Ravenlute's suggestion was "Let's poll the players to find out what they want first," rather than "Let's poll the players to see which of these things they want, and which ones they don't."
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Goblin Squad Member
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I believe Ravenlute's suggestion was "Let's poll the players to find out what they want first," rather than "Let's poll the players to see which of these things they want, and which ones they don't."My Poll Answer
" The uploader has not made this video available in your country. "
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Goblin Squad Member
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" The uploader has not made this video available in your country. "I believe Ravenlute's suggestion was "Let's poll the players to find out what they want first," rather than "Let's poll the players to see which of these things they want, and which ones they don't."My Poll Answer
It's Queen's I Want it All