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If I wanted to make a barbarian who specializes in fighting multiple (weaker) opponents, what kinds of things (feats, rage powers, etc) should I look to pick up? I am picturing him running into a crowd of guys, being surrounded and slaughtering his way out of it; or maybe holding a pass against an army (i know barbarian may not be ideal for this); etc.
I thought that I should not trade away uncanny dodge, since he'll probably be flanked.
I know that AC is good when fighting multiple weaker guys.
I thought about Dreadful Carnage and Terrifying Howl.
I think one would have a hard time getting whirlwind attack on a barbarian, but could possibly get cleave. I don't know if it's that good, though.
Any other ideas?
Combat reflexes and stand still, maybe.
Damage boosting feats like Power Attack might be good. You want to one shot as many as possible and hopefully a mob will have low AC.
Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave. Against low AC creatures this is wonderful.
Flanking Foil would help make up for the lost AC on any you didn't kill.
Anything that improved DR.
Great Cleave is an obvious choice. It's a cheap way to get 1 attack for every opponent. There feats you can stack on top of that to help you Cleave even more, like Cleaving Finish and Surprise Follow Through. The problem with Cleaving is you suffer a -2 AC.
Whirlwind Attack doesn't have that problem, but it's in expensive feat as you surmised. Also, it is sometimes very important that a Whirlwind' is made with a single attack roll. That makes it a classic choice for a Magus who might cast True Strike, use Power Attack, and then Whirlwind everybody with his Scizore with a +20 to hit. Or instead of Power Attack and True Strike, Shocking Grasp, or other stuff.
Another approach I like is to take is Snake Fang and Combat Reflexes. But I do that with a 2-3 level Dip in Monk, maybe not what you are looking for with your Barbarian.
You might consider Scent, Blind-Fighting, and then carry around an Eversmoking Bottle. The Eversmoking Bottle makes everybody Blind, including you, but with a combination like Scent and Blind Fighting, you will function just fine in the Smoke, and the rabble you're sweeping away will have great difficulty. Half Orcs can get Scent as a Feat. Dwarves can get Tremorsense at the cost of 3 feats. Catfolk and Ratfolk can get it as a Racial Trait. Barbarians can get Scent as a Rage Power. You can get Scent as any of a few level 2 spells like Alter Self (Bugbear). Scent and Tremorsense can be used to locate your opponents, Blind Fighting lets you retain your Dex Mod, navigate while Blinded, and reduces your Miss Chance from 50% to 25% or from 20% to 4% if you are using Smokesticks instead. When I used this method in PFS, it was extremely unpopular at the table. The other players mostly didn't acquire any anti-blindness countermeasures, and they resented the Smoke almost all the time. But if you can get your party to work together, it will be a devastating tactic that you all can enjoy.
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Scott, I'm not sure that magus tactic works. See the clauses bolded in the whirlwind and true strike rules below.
'Pathfinder PRD' wrote:
Whirlwind Attack (Combat)
You can strike out at every foe within reach.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent.
When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities.
'Pathfinder PRD' wrote:
True Strike
School divination; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, F (small wooden replica of an archery target)
Range personal
Target you
Duration see text
You gain temporary, intuitive insight into the immediate future during your next attack. Your next single attack roll (if it is made before the end of the next round) gains a +20 insight bonus. Additionally, you are not affected by the miss chance that applies to attackers trying to strike a concealed target.
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I have a Bloodrager/Brawler built on this idea. Here's how it works:
Round 1: Swift action to retrieve a Potion of Enlarge Person via Spring Loaded Wrist Sheath, Standard to drink, Move into position and draw the Lucerne Hammer. Bloodrage if necessary for the combat. "Position" here means 20-25' from the nearest enemies in a path that makes them go through your massive threatened area to be effective. If there are casters primarily, this means to move within 15' instead.
AoOs: If they look small or weak, go for damage. If they look like they can take a hit, start the trip train.
Round 2: Move action for Martial Flexibility, grabbing either Ki Throw or Vicious Stomp. 5' step if necessary for positioning additional AoOs. Ready an action to trip the first enemy to completely stand up. This readied action gets around the inability to trip an opponent who provokes for standing.
Round 3+: Continue to wreck your opponents.
Combat reflexes yes, stand still not so much. That's to keep people from running away.
Honestly, to have a barbarian deal with a bunch of mooks the answer is damage output. This comes into play best at level 12 when you can pick up the Come and Get Me rage power. Sure they get an effective bonus to hit you. But you get to attack them first as an attack of opportunity. You're also a barbarian. Between your strength, con, and power attack with a two handed weapon you should be able to shurg off any hits that manage to land and then kill them with your massive strength and power attack.
Barbarians excel at this sort of thing by merely existing.
In addition to what was mentioned you might want something to increase your defenses like minor damage reduction, dodge, toughness, improved natural armor etc
therealthom wrote: Scott, I'm not sure that magus tactic works. See the clauses bolded in the whirlwind and true strike rules below.
'Pathfinder PRD' wrote:
Whirlwind Attack (Combat)
You can strike out at every foe within reach.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent.
When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities.
'Pathfinder PRD' wrote:
True Strike
School divination; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, F (small wooden replica of an archery target)
Range personal
Target you
Duration see text
You gain temporary, intuitive insight into the immediate future during your next attack. Your next single attack roll (if it is made before the end of the next round) gains a +20 insight bonus. Additionally, you are not affected by the miss chance that applies to attackers trying to strike a concealed target.
Aw, crap, so much for that, then. Take Great Cleave. I kind of wonder how I'd had that in my head that it was one attack roll. That's academic, I suppose.
Above advice is excellent. The easiest, and most effective, way to do what you ask is to have reach and lots of AoOs. Remember that Enlarge Person alters your DEX by -2, removing 1 AoO.
If you are going the cleave route, consider being a dwarf and getting the dwarven cleave feats. Nothing beats dwarves at cleavage.
Imbicatus wrote: If you are going the cleave route, consider being a dwarf and getting the dwarven cleave feats. Nothing beats dwarves at cleavage. Sneakier too, since dwarven cleavage is usually hidden behind the beard.
Thanks guys.
I think I hadn't realized that they put "the old cleave" back in as cleaving finish. I was planning to have power attack and come-and-get-me, and combat reflexes.
I considered enlarge, I guess there is always a potion.
I guess that I currently have a different guy (lore warden) who enlarges and trips everybody, so that is why I am not immediately jumping on that option (just because it'd be boring to have two guys doing the same thing).
The smoking bottle thing is interesting, I have to think about that. I thought of something similar with darkness, but for some reason the smoke didn't occur to me.
As an aside, the guy I am thinking of (sort of a wandering, half-mad desert gnoll) could be a horizon-walker/ranger or a barbarian/ranger/horizon-walker, that seems to lend itself well to that (ethereal terrain mastery gives a limited concealment-ignore, underground terrain mastery gives blind-fight), a gnoll could plausibly take the orc scent feat, and I could try to do some kind of sandstorm theme on the smoke. The only problem with that route is, I keep looking at the ranger feats and the favored enemy bonuses, and wanting to make him an archer. Whereas I want him to be an invulnerable, foaming at the mouth, in your face, kind of guy. (I also liked the terrifying howl thing, though I guess it's just a gimmick.)
Anyway, the sense I am getting is that it's better to just do normal stuff like great cleave and combat reflexes and enlarge, instead of trying to do fancy weird pathfinder stuff like dreadful-carnage/terrifying-howl, "desperate combatant" feat, ground-breaker/vicious-stomp, etc. That is probably accurate, but just seems so boring. :)
Does the answer change at all if the guys are tougher than "mooks", so they don't go down in one hit? Like, the level 8 barbarian vs 8x level 10 warriors, or something. Obviously there is only so far you can go, but is there something that could tip the scales in such an encounter?
Thanks for your help!
Here is a second, completely unrelated question:
This guy is going to have hundreds of hit points and no real healing capability. I don't know what the other players will make, but I think the world is sort of conanesque and healing magic is not as common as it would usually be in D&D. I don't want the guy to be laid up for two weeks between adventures. Are there any good tricks for natural healing?
I can take the heal skill and do the "treat deadly wounds".
I saw there is a feat that doubles your natural healing rate, but it seems to have a lot of prereqs.
Eventually I want to try to get him a ring of regeneration. (The 2nd edition thing where the guy would just start regenerating when he had a high enough con would be perfect!)
An approach that could work, and I sort of like is: is there a way to convert lethal damage into non-lethal?
Maybe an out-of-combat way? Then he would be back on his feet in a day instead of a week or two. I saw the "flesh wound" rage power, but it's going to be good for 20 points or something, out of the 200. Do you guys know of any weird pathfindery stuff that accomplishes that?
Or, of some other trick?
You can always consider a 1 level dip into Verminous Hunter and kill the animal companion to allow yourself constant, practically at-will Fast Healing 1.
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