Dev Blog Posted: Managing Stuff

[Ryan Dancey]

Managing Your Game Time, Client, Destiny's Twin Characters and Packs

[Lifedragn]

Once you set two characters to train XP on an account with Destiny's Twin you can't make any XP changes without losing the Destiny's Twin perk

Is this a temporary thing, or should we be making new accounts if we decided we wanted a third character?

[Lifedragn]

More info later in the blog. That's what I get for only reading the summary and then asking questions.

[Drakhan Valane]

So, what's "Temporary Outreach Enrollment?" It's what I have instead of Early Enrollment or whatever on my GW account.

[KOTC WxCougar]

Drakhan Valane wrote:

So, what's "Temporary Outreach Enrollment?" It's what I have instead of Early Enrollment or whatever on my GW account.

My account says that too. Before I had listed Early Enrollment (or something to that effect). Not sure why it changed?

[KarlBob]

My account is also labeled as "Temporary Outreach Enrollment"; however, it still shows this:

Goblinworks Account Screen wrote:

Reward Quantity

New Player Pack: 1

Destinys Twin: 1

Daily Deals: 1

Early Enrollment: 1

I assume that "Temporary Outreach" is what's allowing me to be logged in on the last day of Alpha, and I hope that "Early Enrollment: 1" means that I'll be able to log in on the first day of Early Enrollment.

[Ryan Dancey]

It's just a placeholder in use during Alpha. When Early Enrollment begins you'll see Early Enrollment.

[KarlBob]

Lifedragn wrote:

Once you set two characters to train XP on an account with Destiny's Twin you can't make any XP changes without losing the Destiny's Twin perk

Is this a temporary thing, or should we be making new accounts if we decided we wanted a third character?

All I know is that I'm going to:

a) have the EE Client open on one monitor
b) have the "recommended best practices to configure your account for Destiny's Twin use" open on my second monitor
c) follow those best practices to the letter.

[<Kabal> Daeglin]

The step by step instructions for creating a Destiny Twin seems quite clear and is much appreciated. The later paragraph about ensuring both main and DT get backdated xp left me scratching my head a bit even after reading it three times. I'm hoping the first set of instructions leads naturally into allowing the backdating.

[Ryan Dancey]

If you follow the DT instructions, you'll end up with two characters both training and backdated with XP.

If you make a character, play it for a little while, then make another character, set it to train XP, play it for a little while, then decide to have both characters train XP in parallel, one of those two characters will not get backdated XP.

[<Kabal> Kradlum]

Do you plan to change the button on the Goblin Works site when the new client is ready? Otherwise I can see a hell of a lot of people hammering the site downloading the old client. It might even be worth removing the button completely for today until the EE client is up.

[Thod]

<Kabal> Kradlum wrote:

Do you plan to change the button on the Goblin Works site when the new client is ready? Otherwise I can see a hell of a lot of people hammering the site downloading the old client. It might even be worth removing the button completely for today until the EE client is up.

Would have given it 10 favorites if I could.

[<kabal> Bunibuni]

Will we have an updated EE Tutorials - Combat and Crafting, etc with the EE download or still rely on the one from Build 9?

[Junior Halfling]

I followed the DT instructions and I have two chars Training XP - but the second char didn't get the backdated XP.

It's possible that I misunderstood or made a mistake. Does anyone's Destiny's Twin's have the same amount of XP?

I checked this on two accounts:

1276xp @ 7:45 on the first toon
1074xp @ 7:47 on the second toon

1245xp @ 7:28 on the first toon
1027xp @ 7:26 on the second toon

I don't care for me - 200xp isn't something I'm worried about. If I waited until tomorrow - or next week - to make these characters I would be concerned. Are the instructions not working as intended or did I make a mistake?

[Ryan Dancey]

Did you set the 2nd character to train XP at any time before you made it train in parallel with the first character?

[Caldeathe Baequiannia]

My Experience is identical, but a bit later, so a difference of closer to 300 XP between the two. Bugged in game.

[Ravenlute]

I followed it to the letter, both characters say they are training xp, the 2nd character never trained any until I set them both to train at the same time and approved the Destiny's Twin. No characters were ever deleted.

I also see the discrepancy between the current xp of both characters.

[Caldeathe Baequiannia]

Launch
Log in
Create character
Enter world
Quit
Launch
Log in (char one shows training)
Create second character
Enter world
Quit
Launch
Log in
Set training
Turn on training for character two
Set training
Enter world (char two)
[C]char sheet shows 1001 XP

When going to other character, it was about 300 higher

[Thod]

Does this mean to make DT quick or wait and hope for backdating?

edit: Haven't made my DT yet nor have I done for the rest of the family (3 total)

[Caldeathe Baequiannia]

Shouldn't matter, if this is working. If it isn't working, it will become a huge headache for customer service fixing it. I'm going to hold off the other account for a day or two.

[Mistwalker]

Both my daughter and I have the same problem with the backdated XP on the second character (not being backdated).

Not a huge issue, as it is only about 300 to 350 XP, but will be for others who log in days or weeks later, expecting to have backdated XP.

[KOTC WxCougar]

I also followed the directions exactly and still have my DT with less xp.

Nadya has 1495 at server time 957pm
Falita has 1005 xp at servor time 959 pm.

[Bluddwolf]

Ryan Dancey wrote:

Did you set the 2nd character to train XP at any time before you made it train in parallel with the first character?

I haven't checked mine, and won't be able to until tomorrow, but I was just happy to see that both were training (to be honest), I won't sweat it over a few hundred points.

[Caldeathe Baequiannia]

I don't think anyone but the truly obsessive will care a lot about today. That will change over time.

[Swiss Mercenary]

Well considering I have yet to set up my characters and my DT, it would be a problem if the DT does not get backdated.

["The Goodfellow"]

Lets be honest, most people are saying that they are not overly concerned about a few hundred exp difference, but wait until they are a few hundred exp short from a skill and don't want to wait.... LOL

I was just about to download the installer and get in game and noticed it still says "Game is currently in Alpha testing." so I wanted to make sure it is truly in EE now. From everyone else's responses, I will say yes. Off to download and get in.

[Ryan Dancey]

Where do you see "Game is currently in Alpha testing"?

[Swiss Mercenary]

Installing Pathfinder Online page.
https://www.goblinworks.com/installing-pathfinder-online/

[Ryan Dancey]

Awesome thanks!

[Giorgo]

Got back from work, followed the instructions exactly as in the blog.

End result:

Durin Steelforge started with 1819 XP, and his (DT)twin sister, Karina Steelforge, started with 1000 XP. Quite client to double check, it then showed 1843 XP and 1021 XP, so no backdating there....

[Ryan Dancey]

Problems with Destiny's Twin backdating XP has just been fixed.

[Giorgo]

@Ryan,

Sweet! Will confirm in the morning (its 9:53pm EST), and my wife if waiting for me at the family party. Better go there before I get in hot water... :)

See everyone on Jan 1 2015 in game, happy new years to you all!

[KOTC WxCougar]

I checked mine and they are still showing different amounts:

Nadya Peraina with 1888 xp at 153 am server time.
Falita Ahman with 1399 xp at 155 am server time.

[Thod]

Fixed means likely that you will get it backdated from now on.

I gambled and set up everyone before going to bed. Might have lost a few hundred XP that way. But worst it is <800 XP that you could have lost.

[Ryan Dancey]

There is no current plan to fix characters that didn't backdate correctly. We'll have to think about how to address that.

[KOTC WxCougar]

Thanks for the reply, I don't mind myself. Just wasn't sure if I should report it or not.

[<Tavernhold> Locke]

Ryan Dancey wrote:

Problems with Destiny's Twin backdating XP has just been fixed.

Just created account, main and DT, and confirm this is the case! Thank you as it will make those coming in later more comfortable with their weeks delay.

[Giorgo]

Thod wrote:

Fixed means likely that you will get it backdated from now on.

I gambled and set up everyone before going to bed. Might have lost a few hundred XP that way. But worst it is <800 XP that you could have lost.

Being a pioneer is all about taking risk. I lost about 800xp between my main and DT, but I "locked in" my prefered names and now have a starting location for both. I also made it to the game on day 1. I can sleep well tonight.... :)

["The Goodfellow"]

ok so just to be clear, if we created our DT characters prior to the fix, we are SOL, at least for the time being? But it is fixed for others? I know my characters are approximately 800 xp off, so about 8 hours apart exp wise. I would like to have that fixed if at all possible. 800 exp is alot, especially at the start.

Anyway, just checking on this and voicing my opinion.

[Swiss Mercenary]

Ryan Dancey wrote:

Awesome thanks!

Got an 'Awesome' from Ryan Dancey, squeeee! ;)

[Caldeathe Baequiannia]

I hope it's as simple as [if XPAccumulating=1, then set XPAvailable=(BackdateCurrentConstant-XPExpended] Though that's probably a vain hope.

[DeciusBrutus]

In Alpha, nothing was sacred. It was expected that things could change around, be deleted, lost, or changed without notice or explanation. That expectation was set, and there were a few times when it was necessary.

For EE, the promise was that feats could be lost, changed, or otherwise manipulated; balance changes could invalidate a build; and item balance could be radically altered. But XP would be sacred, and not be lost. The backdating of XP within the first month was also promised.

"We're not sure how long it will take to fix everyone" is an acceptable way to respond. "We're not sure if we're going to fix everyone." is a dangerous departure from the expectations that have been carefully set.

Good business means using what is less scarce to preserve what is more scarce. I think it would be a mistake to consider the considerable time required to correct this error more valuable than their ability to credibly set expectations.

["The Goodfellow"]

Is there any way to do the code something like [XPAvailable=(LinkedCharacterTotalXPEarned)-SpentXP] That way, as long as we don't change either character that earns xp, which will disable DT anyway, then it should be correct and be the same as the main.

Side note: @Swiss Mercenary, I was technically the one that pointed it out, you just specified where exactly it was. I am willing to share credit of the "Awesome" in a 75/25 split, me/you. :-)

[T7V Jazzlvraz]

"The Goodfellow" wrote:

I am willing to share credit of the "Awesome" in a 75/25 split, me/you. :-)

Banditry is alive and well! :-)

[Pyronous Rath]

simple fix at the end of the month give every character the same xp admittedly this would give non dt alts a months worth of xp but it's a better option then having to F around with support emails on an individual basis.

[Ryan Dancey]

@DeciusBrutus - I agree with you in principle 100%. There are some added complexities in this case that are really exceptionally unusual. Getting the Destiny's Twin system to backdate XP at all proved to be very hard (obviously - since they had tested their solution, certified that it worked, then it broke.... :) )

I don't have the easy ability to just adjust database records to make up for the missing XP in this case for a lengthy, and ultimately unimportant set of reasons.

Right now the only partial solution I have is that we could arrange to rendesvouz with characters in game with GM characters and manually add XP to them. Until we know how many characters we're talking about, I'm loathe to implement that solution.

We'll figure out something equitable.

[Caldeathe Baequiannia]

Pyronous Rath wrote:

simple fix at the end of the month give every character the same xp admittedly this would give non dt alts a months worth of xp but it's a better option then having to F around with support emails on an individual basis.

So your idea is that any alt at all having an extra 72,000 XP they shouldn't is good compensation for a few of us that may have been shorted as much 1,000 XP or so before it was fixed is a good balance?

I think you should stick to asking for better grass.

[Caldeathe Baequiannia]

I hope they captured the total list of DT accounts turned on when the fix was applied. That should give a pretty finite number of accounts that need anything at all if they care.

If an account has DT enabled (i.e. two alts collecting XP) Then the total accumulated XP counter (presumably maintained separately from spent XP) need only be set to the known value.

I really hope this isn't difficult if it's decided to do something. The clock knows exactly how much every non-alt character ought to have in it's accumulated total. When tracking a paid for resource, it's utterly essential that you don't track what is left. You track what is granted, and what is used.

[DeciusBrutus]

Ryan Dancey wrote:

@DeciusBrutus - I agree with you in principle 100%. There are some added complexities in this case that are really exceptionally unusual. Getting the Destiny's Twin system to backdate XP at all proved to be very hard (obviously - since they had tested their solution, certified that it worked, then it broke.... :) )

I don't have the easy ability to just adjust database records to make up for the missing XP in this case for a lengthy, and ultimately unimportant set of reasons.

Right now the only partial solution I have is that we could arrange to rendesvouz with characters in game with GM characters and manually add XP to them. Until we know how many characters we're talking about, I'm loathe to implement that solution.

We'll figure out something equitable.

I'm satisfied with "We'll figure out something equitable". Other than the matter of principle, I'm not really a complainant, but my DT 'lost' less than 100 XP to the bug; I'm one of the least affected among those affected.

[Illililili]

IMHO they need to implement the same tool Eve used, where they can assign X extra skillpoints to either one character or all of them.

I remember Eve giving us all skillpoints when the servers got screwed up and we couldn't play for a few days.

It is inevitable that happens here, and compensating people for time unable to play (in a method that does not cost the business money) keeps people happy.