Traits. When do you Hvae to choose them?


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

When do you Have to choose a Trait? Can a Character "hold" a trait slot until she qualifies for a desired trait. Example the ugly cleric, chr 12. At 3rd level the cleric earns a Trait and wants "selective channel" which requires a Chr of 13. She will get a Stat bonus @ 4th level. She increases her Chr +1 to 13. She is meets the min chr to take the Feat.

During a Game convention,I played 8 PFS games and my character leveled up several times. I had a Pregem credit(7th level). I went from 6th to 8th level real quick.
{There is not a lot of time between games(especially if they run longer).}

I spent my time on spells and stat increases. I Forgot I earned a Trait at 7th level. I was 8th level when It was pointed out to me.
Can I choose a Trait being a 8th level character? 8th level gives me a stat increase which could qualify me for a Trait, I cound not get at 7th level.


You can't sandbag anything in official PF rules. Either use it when you get it, or lose it completely.

(And you mean 'feat', not trait.)


I have no idea about whether this works in PFS or not, but Ultimate Campaign introduced retraining rules that would allow you to take a different feat and then retrain it into Selective Channeling when you meet the pre-reqs.


There's prolly no need to lose the feat forever just because you made an error, are inexperienced and forgot to/didn't realize you were entitled to assign it at 7th. Not unless your local VO's are super strict, that is.

I suggest that you choose the feat now as if you had taken it at 7th level and carry on while endeavouring to be more vigilant in the future. Don't choose any feat that you need to be 8th to qualify for i.e. whatever feat you've got your eye that requires that stat increase, take the feat from amongst what you qualified for at 7th only.

Strictly speaking, this could be considered cheating but PF is a system with such an expansive rule set that you will never remember everything and you will never not make errors.


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Val'Ross the explorer wrote:

Example the ugly cleric, chr 12. At 3rd level the cleric earns a Trait and wants "selective channel" which requires a Chr of 13. She will get a Stat bonus @ 4th level. She increases her Chr +1 to 13. She is meets the min chr to take the Feat.

No, you cannot do this. You must pick the feat with appropriate prereqs at that level: you cannot 'hold' the feat.

For your character, you must pick a feat you were eligible to have at 7th level, before the stat increase.

Liberty's Edge

No, you can't hold off adding a feat until you meet the prerequisites. If your character didn't have Cha 13+ at 7th level, you can't wait until 8th level to take an ability bump AND your 7th level feat.

If you forgot to add your 7th level feat, I'm sure there won't be any issue with penciling it in afterwards...as long as you take a feat you were qualified for when you reached 7th level. You're only gaining late access to an ability/power that you completely ignored for an entire level.

Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play Ver. 6.0 wrote:
After 1st level, if you own a copy of Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Campaign, you may use the retraining rules that begin on page 188 to alter your character. Such changes must be made in the presence of a Pathfinder Society GM, the GM must initial each change, and each change must be noted on an official Pathfinder Society Chronicle sheet. If the GM wishes to audit your character before the changes are made, you must present the character to the GM. If time is a limiting factor, the GM may choose not to allow retraining during that session. When utilizing these retraining rules, you must expend wealth as outlined in the Retraining section of Ultimate Campaign, as well as 1 Prestige Point per day of retraining since time between scenarios is undefined.

So, as long as you have a copy of Ultimate Campaign and you retrain with a Society GM present, you should be good to go. In fact, you may just want to tell your next Society GM that you forgot to add your 7th level feat and you'd now like to retrain it to Selective Channeling. Pay the cost and you can have the feat you now qualify for.


Blakmane wrote:
Val'Ross the explorer wrote:

Example the ugly cleric, chr 12. At 3rd level the cleric earns a Trait and wants "selective channel" which requires a Chr of 13. She will get a Stat bonus @ 4th level. She increases her Chr +1 to 13. She is meets the min chr to take the Feat.

No, you cannot do this. You must pick the feat with appropriate prereqs at that level: you cannot 'hold' the feat.

For your character, you must pick a feat you were eligible to have at 7th level, before the stat increase.

Incorrect. The retraining FAQ specifically addresses this:

Quote:

Can I retrain a feat to replace it with a feat I didn't qualify for at the level I originally gained that feat?

Yes. As long as the new feat is a valid feat for your current character, you can retrain the old feat and replace it with the new feat.


_Ozy_ wrote:
Blakmane wrote:
Val'Ross the explorer wrote:

Example the ugly cleric, chr 12. At 3rd level the cleric earns a Trait and wants "selective channel" which requires a Chr of 13. She will get a Stat bonus @ 4th level. She increases her Chr +1 to 13. She is meets the min chr to take the Feat.

No, you cannot do this. You must pick the feat with appropriate prereqs at that level: you cannot 'hold' the feat.

For your character, you must pick a feat you were eligible to have at 7th level, before the stat increase.

Incorrect. The retraining FAQ specifically addresses this:

Quote:

Can I retrain a feat to replace it with a feat I didn't qualify for at the level I originally gained that feat?

Yes. As long as the new feat is a valid feat for your current character, you can retrain the old feat and replace it with the new feat.

Actually he is correct. What he is saying is that when you level up you must qualify for the feat you want. You must choose a feat when you level. What you are talking about is retraining, and is an answer to a different question.

Example:
If I level up to 7, and I want feat X, but I do not qualify then I still have to choose a feat because the rules do not allow for me to not choose a feat.

However what I can do, upon qualifying for the feat I really want, is to retrain that level 7 feat into feat X because now I do qualify for it.

edit: He even addressed this in the post at the bottom by saying that you can retrain.


Hmm, I could have sworn he was originally talking about retraining, but it looks like that was my mistake.

I don't see him mentioning retraining later on though. That was the next poster.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What's this about getting a trait at 7th level? You only gain two traits at first. If you want more, you have to take the Extra Traits feat, and the traits you choose have to be from different categories than any trait you already possess.


LazarX wrote:
What's this about getting a trait at 7th level? You only gain two traits at first. If you want more, you have to take the Extra Traits feat, and the traits you choose have to be from different categories than any trait you already possess.

Read the second post or use your context clues, Lazar.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Val'Ross the explorer wrote:
When do you Have to choose a Trait? Can a Character "hold" a trait slot until she qualifies for a desired trait.

You can't hold anything. All choices must be made at the time they become a choice. Traits are chosen like backgrounds, so as you level up. So your 1st level needs to provide any pre-reqs the trait has.

Feats are the same way, you must choose them when you get them. You may retrain paying all GP cost and time (prestige points in PFS) for the change. All retraining costs GP and time (there are defaults if not listed.) When retraining you only need qualify now.

Liberty's Edge

Thank you. Yes, I made a Posting Error. I ment "Feats" not Traits.
This is my first character to advance above 3rd level. I made Many mistakes. (Buying items that are soon sold for better ones.) Not taking the bonus skills for Humans at each level. I did not notice the part of Stat increase until after it was pointed out.

My game group Can't get past D&D 2nd ed. I love PFS But don't have the chance to play often. No PFS games in my area.
I am a 1 or 2 times a year, Game Con Marathon player (8)games in a weekend. I am tempted to Pay a GM to drive here and run a game for our group.
Retraining is the solution. (If I purchase the book.) This christmas, I finialy bought the Adv PG. The "No book, No use rules" is harsh for Part time players.(I understand supporting Paizo) "Anyone want to sell a page from your beastuary 3?, so I can use the Axe Beak boon. LOL. I will never be a GM."
I am going to start over with a new cleric, hopefully I can avoid mistakes, I made with the first one.
Like many other games "Day late,$1 short" Feats are awarded at odd levels and I qualify for the ones I want at the next level. Just the nature of the game. Thanks for your input.


_Ozy_ wrote:

Hmm, I could have sworn he was originally talking about retraining, but it looks like that was my mistake.

I don't see him mentioning retraining later on though. That was the next poster.

That was him.

Here is the quote--> "So, as long as you have a copy of Ultimate Campaign and you retrain with a Society GM present, you should be good to go. In fact, you may just want to tell your next Society GM that you forgot to add your 7th level feat and you'd now like to retrain it to Selective Channeling. Pay the cost and you can have the feat you now qualify for."


Um, don't think so. I responded to Blakmane, you just quoted Darth_gator. Not that it makes a big difference, I was mistaken to begin with. Just trying to make sure I'm not going senile.


<facepalm>
I was quoting the wrong guy.. oops. :)

Liberty's Edge

I made a posting error. "Feats not Traits"
I asked a Question and was given a Solution. Retraining is a way to get what I want. But I "don't own the book/Can't use the rules"

I did see a Problem with the Example in the book.

Core Rulebook:"Combat Feats
Any feat designated as a combat feat can be selected as a fighter's bonus feat. This designation does not restrict characters of other classes from selecting these feats, assuming that they meet the prerequisites."

Ultimate Campaign-"For example, a 6th-level rogue can't use retraining to learn the Weapon Specialization feat because only fighters can choose that feat."
What is the intended meaning. The 2 books don't say the same thing.

Like I said " We must support Paizo" by purchasing products. I will never GM. Many books only have 1 or 2 rules I can use, the rest is just reading material. I bought Adv player's guide to be able purchase 2 items.
(weapon cords,Blunt Arrows)Wrist Shief,I found in the pamplet :Adventurer's Armory.
Too bad I can't pay Paizo $5.00? for 1 page download for the 1 rule in the book I need. LOL
Thanks for your help. If you want to add more lets discuss the Core rule book Feats and Campaign rule.

The Paizo book index doesn't have the whole book on the web. And I understand why. It just makes choosing what 1 book I can purchase this time more difficult. Married players know "it's 1 purchase for me and 1 for the wife" Each book cost Me double. LOL


Can't you buy the PDF instead of the hardback version? If you have a character with 9 books it seems a lot easier to carry a printout of the pdf page with your name on it. It is also cheaper.

Grand Lodge

Val'Ross the explorer wrote:
What is the intended meaning. The 2 books don't say the same thing.

No, because they don't address the same question.

A character of another class than fighter can choose a feat that is a combat feat, assuming she meets the prerequisites.

A 6th level rogue doesn't meet the prerequisites for Weapon Specialisation.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Fighter Bonus feats are a class feature, one that allows free retraining periodically. For example a 1st level Fighter takes Weapon Finesse as his 1st level feat and Power Attack as his Fighter Bonus feat. Later he may retrain the Power Attack, but not the Weapon Finesse.

Ultimate Campaign retraining is for the cases that do not allow retraining like the Fighter bonus feats. This is the only way to retain Weapon Finesse in the above example.

There is also some household language to help with married couples using one purchase for each other.

Grand Lodge

Val'Ross the explorer wrote:


I did see a Problem with the Example in the book.

Core Rulebook:"Combat Feats
Any feat designated as a combat feat can be selected as a fighter's bonus feat. This designation does not restrict characters of other classes from selecting these feats, assuming that they meet the prerequisites."

Ultimate Campaign-"For example, a 6th-level rogue can't use retraining to learn the Weapon Specialization feat because only fighters can choose that feat."
What is the intended meaning. The 2 books don't say the same thing.

Weapon Specialization (Combat):

You are skilled at dealing damage with one weapon. Choose one type of weapon (including unarmed strike or grapple) for which you have already selected the Weapon Focus feat. You deal extra damage when using this weapon.

Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, fighter level 4th.

Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all damage rolls you make using the selected weapon.

Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon


Weapon Specialization is not a common combat feat. Under Prerequisites, it notes that you have to be a 4th level fighter to take that feat (along with proficiency and focus with the weapon). The rogue can't take it, not because its a combat feat, but because it's a fighter-only feat. He could take Point blank shot, a combat feat with no Prerecs, or any other combat feat that he qualifies for.

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