is a slayer / fighter redundant?


Advice


i have a question about making a archer slayer/fighter would taking both of these together be pointless? im going to use different kinds of arrows for more utility was also thinking a dip in alchemist to add an interesting factor any advice would help alot thanks everyone.


What do you want out of Fighter? If it's BAB, then yeah, no point at all. If you want to take the actual Archer Fighter arhetype, then maybe it's worth it, but at that point, why are you taking Slayer levels at all?


i took slayer mostly for studied target i plan to take two lvls of slayer and rest fighter

Liberty's Edge

Yeah...Slayer is, in many ways, Fighter Plus. I don't see a lot of point unless there's saome very specific Fighter Class Feature you simply must have.

An Alchemist dip is a lot more viable, though dipping in general is usually not the best move possible in Pathfinder...it can be a lot of fun, though.

EDIT:

swifthunter420 wrote:
i took slayer mostly for studied target i plan to take two lvls of slayer and rest fighter

Why not continue going Slayer for the rest? It's better in almost every way.


Answering the thread name: A lore wardend 3 is probably a great dip if you want to go with combat maneuvers.

ANsering the specific question: just take 3 levels in archer if you want to do some maneuver at range, otherwise skip the fighter levels.


i trying to make a reay cool archer thats deals good damage and be able to do cool things in not just shooting endless streams of arrows im trying to make him have a high cool factor like hawkeye or deadshot but not suffer in damage is that possible?


Just be an Archer Fighter. Studied Combat isn't that good unless you have more Slayer levels. Archer fighters can do awesome stuff with an arrow, and also tons of damage.


swifthunter420 wrote:
i took slayer mostly for studied target i plan to take two lvls of slayer and rest fighter

Taking two level of slayer for a +1 that takes a move action is actually not efficient if you are taking the slayer levels for mechanical reasons. You are likely better off going fighter, archer(fighter archetype) or weapon master(fighter archetype).

Liberty's Edge

swifthunter420 wrote:
i trying to make a reay cool archer thats deals good damage and be able to do cool things in not just shooting endless streams of arrows im trying to make him have a high cool factor like hawkeye or deadshot but not suffer in damage is that possible?

If that's your primary goal, Fighter (Archer) probably is the way to go...though your out-of-combat capabilities are gonna kinda suck.

Dipping Slayer for skills might be worth it, but Studied Target almost certainly isn't.

Sovereign Court

Slayer is worth it if you go at least 6 levels, because then you can gain Improved Precise Shot from using Slayer Talents to pick up the Ranger's Archery Combat Style. Improved Precise Shot normally requires BAB +11, so getting it five levels early is quite nice.

If you want to do weird stuff with arrows, I'd say play a Grenadier alchemist and select a longbow as your weapon of choice. Take the Explosive Missile discovery at level 4. Abuse the heck out of the alchemical archery chapter from Alchemy Manual. I'm doing this to make touch attacks with a range increment of 110ft, that do 2d6+7 fire damage, cause a weak entangled condition, set someone on fire, and deal 1d6+5 acid damage. At level 4, that's pretty nice.


that sounds awesome could i take a dip in alchemist to get craft alchemy and make my own blaches and stuff?

Sovereign Court

Alchemist archer works best if you do it as a pure alchemist.


Favored Target isn't worth a dip. You need at least 7 levels to really make it worthwhile.

And honestly, Slayer is better than Fighter in most every way. Better saves, same damage output from class features, more skills, Sneak Attack, and prerequisite-less Feats.

The Fighter gets 11 Bonus Feats vs a Slayer's 4, but that's the only real benefit.


Slayer can get a TON of bonus feats if you take them through Slayer Talents.
Not only that, but a Slayer can be awesome at coup de gracing enemies at high levels. You get the right party and build the slayer within it, and you suddenly got a phenomenal executioner.
Fighter, while it can be awesome, is kinda boring in some respects because he seems to lack flavor. Some, like Viking, Martial Master, Mutation Warrior, add a TON of flavor and fun to the class, while others like Two Handed Fighter are kinda the 'old reliable' in terms of damage output. Badass and fun all around.

Liberty's Edge

Rynjin wrote:
The Fighter gets 11 Bonus Feats vs a Slayer's 4, but that's the only real benefit.

Slayers get 5, maybe 6 actually...and they get them over the first 10-12 levels, so in a game capping at 15, the Fighter gets 8 to the Slayer's 5-6.

And Archer Fighter has some unique capabilities. I'd still argue Slayer is better, but it has areas it's superior at.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
The Fighter gets 11 Bonus Feats vs a Slayer's 4, but that's the only real benefit.

Slayers get 5, maybe 6 actually...and they get them over the first 10-12 levels, so in a game capping at 15, the Fighter gets 8 to the Slayer's 5-6.

And Archer Fighter has some unique capabilities. I'd still argue Slayer is better, but it has areas it's superior at.

Technically, Slayer gets 3 (Ranger style) + Combat Trick, Finesse Rogue, Weapon Training, and Firearm Training (okay, it's a weapon proficiency, but still) = 6-7. Assuming you want all of those anyway.

What we're coming away with from this, though, is that you can make a strong case for going Slayer to shoot things, and you can make a strong case for going Fighter (Archer) to shoot things, and you can dip Fighter and then go Slayer, but you shouldn't dip Slayer and then go Fighter.


I only counted 4, since Combat Style + Combat Trick are the only ones that aren't locked into a specific Feat.


Rynjin wrote:
I only counted 4, since Combat Style + Combat Trick are the only ones that aren't locked into a specific Feat.

Which is probably wise, and the other two are... not very good, unless your specific concept demands Weapon Finesse or Weapon Focus and you can't get them with Human+first level feat... which is insanely nichey.

But they are there.


can poison be good on arrows?


Poison is never really good on any PC. It works too slowly to usually make a combat difference.

Grand Lodge

Quote:
i trying to make a reay cool archer thats deals good damage and be able to do cool things in not just shooting endless streams of arrows im trying to make him have a high cool factor like hawkeye or deadshot but not suffer in damage is that possible?

This has abit to do with the role playing aspect. Hawkeye has no superpowers. He shoots arrows really well. Uses tech and special arrows.

I believe inquisitor is always an overlooked class. Bane can really bring the pain. They have lots of skills. Good saves. Plenty of special abilities that make you feel strong and flexible.


Before you start planning out your levels. I suggest you take a look at the Zen Archer, a monk archetype from the APG.

I have never played one but have seen them in action. They are very effective and can bring that archer plus thing you might be looking for.

Liberty's Edge

Rynjin wrote:
I only counted 4, since Combat Style + Combat Trick are the only ones that aren't locked into a specific Feat.

I also count Weapon Focus (since all Fighters basically have to have it anyway), and maybe Weapon Finesse (since it's something you want on all finesse builds). Hence, 5-6.

Gun Training is really niche, so I probably wouldn't count it.


Rynjin wrote:
Poison is never really good on any PC. It works too slowly to usually make a combat difference.

Use drugs instead.


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I can vouch for that. My Sorcerer was almost done in by a Suggestion from a Rakshasa to sit around and smoke Pesh for a whole fight about a year and a half ago.

Of course he was insane and convinced the Rakshasa was his daddy anyway (he was a Rakshasa blooded Tiefling), so he probably would have been all too happy to obey regardless.

Very nearly avoided becoming addicted, which would have just been the icing.


Question for you all in regards to a lvl 12 human fighter vs lvl 12 human martial focused slayer and combat feats. At lvl 12 a human fighter will have 7 bonus feats plus the 6 lvl feats and the 1 human free feat for 14 total. A slayer will get the same 6 lvl feats, the same 1 free human feat, and 6 slayer talents that he can take as either ranger combat feats or rogue combat tricks (that can be used to select combat feats like a fighter) and use his FCB to select two slayer talents at (6th and 12th) for a total of 15 feats. The fighter gets armor training, bravery and weapon training while the slayer gets studied target, tracking, sneak attack, stalker and swift tracker. The slayer has better saves a bigger skill list and more skill points. They have the same weapon proficiencies but the fighter edges the slayer in armor worn. Except for the heavy armor, are slayers a better fighter than the fighter?

Scarab Sages

I will say do not take Archer fighter. The archetype is a trap. The ability to make maneuvers at range is not worth the loss of armor training and the inability to use gloves of dueling. A core fighter is a better option than the archer.

For your build, Pure slayer is going to outperform the fighter in almost every way.

qwerty1971 wrote:
Except for the heavy armor, are slayers a better fighter than the fighter?

The Fighter has an extra +2 to hit/Damage from gloves of dueling, and access to Greater Weapon Specialization. The fighter also doesn't need to impact action economy to use weapon training, but this is less of an issue at high levels.

Other than that, Slayer is better, yes.


swifthunter420 wrote:
i have a question about making a archer slayer/fighter would taking both of these together be pointless? im going to use different kinds of arrows for more utility was also thinking a dip in alchemist to add an interesting factor any advice would help alot thanks everyone.

If you want the green arrow/Hawk eye different arrows feel, the arcane archer prestige class is better than either figther or slayer when you get a few levels. going either figther or slayer is better than mixing if you want to be a deadly archer. And zen archer May be better than both.

Scarab Sages

If you are going to go alchemist, go single class. Grenadier with explosive missile is a great trick arrow Hawkeye type character.

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