The Alchemist was a replacement PC who came in around 13th level after my rather ineffective Cleric died horribly due to a failed Will save. Maybe the DM didn't use some of the tactics which were available, or maybe the party generally had some magical counters (Protection from Evil etc). I just know the Alchemist breezed through a lot of stuff. Honestly, the DM might have been scared to dominate the Alchemist for fear of TPK. Greater Invisibility might have helped too.
I'd say that Kingmaker has some pretty critical Will saves, but it probably isn't something that will happen every fight or even every session. In a homebrew game it sometimes can be. Perhaps I'll start a separate thread about it when I get a chance. At the moment it is time to go celebrate Festivus.
Devilkiller - every 4 levels you get 1 floating point to put in an ability score. I just phrased it 1/4 levels to be shorter.
Snowblind - I just pointed out that FAQ to the player in question, since I think he specifically said the only reason he chose human with racial heritage was to qualify for both paragon surge and the human FCB. Also, because I'm apparently a glutton for punishment, I'll show him that feat.
The overall vote seems to be leaning away from the pseudo-pounce houserule. In retrospect, I'm kind of glad it is. I don't think I fully thought out the implications. The arguments against it are pretty nasty when you add a dragon to the mix...200' speed + bite, claw, claw, wing, wing, tail...yeesh...
Heh. I was Dominated a few times (each time I rolled a 1...the save was usually one I could pass on a 5 at worst. -.-') but I never had to fight the party, since that would have given me a new save.
I did have to once due to a weird non-Dominate effect, and it was a blast. I didn't kill anyone, but it was fun utilizing tactics I usually don't (read: Rage cycling) to just completely shrug off any debuffs thrown my way.
The Sorcerer likes to toss out Persistent Icy Prisons.
Failed it on the second roll, then ate the motherf*+$er with Eater of Magic, healed a bit, and kept on chuggin'. Then managed to fail all 3 saves the next time (Reflex is my worst save), and just Strength Surged my way out immediately.
Almost got the Wizard though before The Zix (it's hard to call him one class since he melds about 5 together effectively. He's just The Zix) beat me unconscious. Which took a while since DR 12/- vs nonlethal is pretty terrifying, with Ferocity on top especially.
Almost makes me wish I'd fail more saves in other games. Almost.
By the way, roleplay vs rollplay? How is the Stormwind Fallacy not common knowledge yet? My optimizer player and my newbie both roleplay. Both of them! Like, thoroughly. Everyone in between, too. Seriously, that argument just needs to die already.
No one here is saying optimizers can't roleplay. The point being made was mandatory optimization limits build choices, and therefore character choices. I was responding to the people who are telling you to pre-emptively boot this player for not being optimized enough for the party.
By the way, roleplay vs rollplay? How is the Stormwind Fallacy not common knowledge yet? My optimizer player and my newbie both roleplay. Both of them! Like, thoroughly. Everyone in between, too. Seriously, that argument just needs to die already.No one here is saying optimizers can't roleplay. The point being made was mandatory optimization limits build choices, and therefore character choices. I was responding to the people who are telling you to pre-emptively boot this player for not being optimized enough for the party.
This is true.
If I want to play a guy or gal that doesn't sling spells or roll saves against friendly spells, I am basically boned.
By the way, roleplay vs rollplay? How is the Stormwind Fallacy not common knowledge yet? My optimizer player and my newbie both roleplay. Both of them! Like, thoroughly. Everyone in between, too. Seriously, that argument just needs to die already.No one here is saying optimizers can't roleplay. The point being made was mandatory optimization limits build choices, and therefore character choices. I was responding to the people who are telling you to pre-emptively boot this player for not being optimized enough for the party.This is true.
If I want to play a guy or gal that doesn't sling spells or roll saves against friendly spells, I am basically boned.
Except, you know, the Slayer and Skirmisher Ranger are things that exist.
The overall vote seems to be leaning away from the pseudo-pounce houserule. In retrospect, I'm kind of glad it is. I don't think I fully thought out the implications. The arguments against it are pretty nasty when you add a dragon to the mix...200' speed + bite, claw, claw, wing, wing, tail...yeesh...
This is why I hate democracy!
EDIT: I would ask the player to take a look at dodge and improved initiative, then later lunge and shield bash.
Except, you know, the Slayer and Skirmisher Ranger are things that exist.By the way, roleplay vs rollplay? How is the Stormwind Fallacy not common knowledge yet? My optimizer player and my newbie both roleplay. Both of them! Like, thoroughly. Everyone in between, too. Seriously, that argument just needs to die already.No one here is saying optimizers can't roleplay. The point being made was mandatory optimization limits build choices, and therefore character choices. I was responding to the people who are telling you to pre-emptively boot this player for not being optimized enough for the party.This is true.
If I want to play a guy or gal that doesn't sling spells or roll saves against friendly spells, I am basically boned.
Except they still are not all that great. They just are less crippled than fighter and rogue.
Even hyper optimized barbars run into the problem of being mere mortals once the levels climb high enough.
Plus, this player, no matter the situation, inevitably just charges crap and stabs it. Even with me playing a wizard who NOTORIOUSLY throws a LOT of fireballs, he jumps into the middle of a group of enemies, right after I said "I will fireball the crap out of those guys". (Then fails his saves. Then says it's somehow my fault...)
I doubt that will change from a rogue with a fighter dip to a fighter.
That is sort of your fault..
Fighter jumps in against your wishes and you decide to fry him because he didn't follow your plan ?
Anyway, just let him go do his own thing.
Plus, this player, no matter the situation, inevitably just charges crap and stabs it. Even with me playing a wizard who NOTORIOUSLY throws a LOT of fireballs, he jumps into the middle of a group of enemies, right after I said "I will fireball the crap out of those guys". (Then fails his saves. Then says it's somehow my fault...)
I doubt that will change from a rogue with a fighter dip to a fighter.
That is sort of your fault..
Fighter jumps in against your wishes and you decide to fry him because he didn't follow your plan ?
Heh heh, yeah. It kinda is. Heh heh. (Sorry, I'm really subtly chuckling at the memory of this particular set of incidents...it just KEEPS happening.)
My wizard in the older game is incredibly intelligent, but arrogant as hell, and he simply thinks his plans are superior to everyone else's (note this is not just a reflection of me...I played my previous character, a gunslinger as a real subservient team player). The fact is, if there's a massive crowd of mooks, he's gonna blow them up. His warning the other players to stay out of the way is his way of being nice. Should they choose to ignore said warning...well, not really so much his fault, in his opinion. Note he didn't say "I WANT to fireball these guys", he said "I am GOING TO fireball the crap out of those guys." Very distinct difference. One is a proposal, the other is a warning.
In fact, in the most recent incident, the player who is our captain (and the only person my wizard even remotely defers judgement to) even jumped out of the way and screamed "all clear, wizard!" before the rogue charged in like a goofus, so really, it's pretty silly on his part.
In my admittedly limited experience the big problem with single classed Fighters is their low Will save. T
That is a issue. But solved rather eaily. One feat, one trait, and putting a 12 in WIS and you have +4. That makes you = to a class with a "Good" Will save thru level 14.
Yeah, but even classes with Good Will saves need some of those things as the game goes on and DCs scale, so you're just kinda staving off the inevitable.
That "Immune to mind control" Ioun Stone/Wayfinder combo is another thing you should consider getting with only a +4 Will.
Yeah, but even classes with Good Will saves need some of those things as the game goes on and DCs scale, so you're just kinda staving off the inevitable.
That "Immune to mind control" Ioun Stone/Wayfinder combo is another thing you should consider getting with only a +4 Will.
Sure. But that's pretty obscure and not every DM allows it.
OTOH, a cloak of resistance is always a Good thing. Classes with Poor Will save should consider getting one +1 bettert than the norm, at least.
We played and are still playing together as a group in Skull and Shackles, wherein I am a player and the guy who will be the sorcerer when I'm GM is our current GM.
The game we're speaking of, where I will be GM hasn't started yet, but we're all eagerly preparing for it quite early.