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@TriOmegaZero
I really cannot imagine scenario where player caused dire calamity, disfunction and major trouble or death for entire party or player due to his roleplay of a character. Should this terrible situation appear, I am sure GM who knows out of game what character really is, can solve the issue quietly and nicely.
Nor do I. But I know how it can ruin the mood of a table outside the game itself.
Should the player ask another player out of game what his character really is, player can lie. Rules of the game do not cover people's social behaviour.
That on side, don't get me wrong. I already learned myself that it's easier to simply say what your character really is. It causes less confusion. One player got insulted once over me when I didn't wish to tell him the spell's name, but he was a special case.
Adam
More importantly, Nefreet said himself that he wasn't lying. Whether or not he CAN lie was never in question.
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If you say he looks exactly like a dwarfThis must be where ppl are getting hung up.
I never said this, and I feel people are reading other's responses and assuming they are quoting me directly.
The English language is rather finicky.
"Describing him as a dwarf", and saying "he looks exactly like a dwarf", are two different things.
During character introductions, those that are paying attention, and who are curious enough to ask, will realize the difference.
If you're not, and you adventure with him for a few sessions believing he's "just a dwarf", but then at some point figure out the truth, it's an "Aha!" moment. It's that type of realization that becomes memorable. A moment when the world you know changes.
In roleplaying games I've found that those moments are becoming fewer and fewer in between. Everyone now falls into "Class X" or "Race Y", with no deviation.
Isn't that what this thread was written to address?
I believe the point has been driven home, after this.
In home campaigns, with a consistent GM/Player group, and continuity from session... keeping a few secrets at the beginning and having them eventually come out somewhere down the line as the campaign moves forward is entirely appropriate and can be lots of fun.
In PFS play-- every game is essentially a "one-shot" pick-up game with a new cast of characters and GM each time-- now, there may be a lot of overlap-- play it long enough in the same area and you'll see a lot of the same players and GMs, and even see many of the same characters, but there still isn't that campaign continuity from session to session that you get in home games. In the PFS environment (and other one-shot-at-a-time organized play environments), someone keeping secrets from his/her fellow players can be a problem. If his/her secrets muck up parts of the game for the rest of us, it will definitely be a problem. In PFS, if we (the other players) aren't inconvenienced by his/her secret keeping, then congratulations, he/she can pat him-/her-self on the back for his/her cleverness- the rest of us probably didn't notice or care, so what was the point?
Now, it doesn't matter if it's a home game or PFS-- I can and do routinely separate player-knowledge from character-knowledge. If I, the player, know someone's actually playing a dwarf-blooded oread, but as far as my character knows, that character is just a dwarf-- I'm going to play it properly based on what my character knows. In PFS, I'd rather know as a player what else is at the table (as a GM I have to know-- that part is non-negotiable, but I don't think anyone disagrees on that point). In a home-game, I'm cool with some secrets being kept at the table.
However, there is one more thing-- yes, the English language is very finicky, AND is one where context, tone, etc, are very important. You may parse your words very carefully so that you are not technically lying-- but everyone else at the table is likely to still consider you a liar if you give the solid impression that your character is just a dwarf as a matter of player-to-player knowledge (not in-character description). Implied meaning matters, not just literal meaning. Also, have you ever heard of the concept of "lying by omission"? It applies here.
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@TriOmegaZero
I really cannot imagine scenario where player caused dire calamity, disfunction and major trouble or death for entire party or player due to his roleplay of a character. Should this terrible situation appear, I am sure GM who knows out of game what character really is, can solve the issue quietly and nicely.
This has happened twice in the last fortnight, where a character 'roleplays' his way into killing off important NPCs, disrupting diplomacy, and blowing the party's cover.
Knowing that character's race or class doesn't change anything.
This happens everytime my Zen Archer is in a scenario without a faceman. They say "send the Aasimar" and 6 seconds later the arrows start flying.
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This has happened twice in the last fortnight, where a character 'roleplays' his way into killing off important NPCs, disrupting diplomacy, and blowing the party's cover.
Knowing that character's race or class doesn't change anything.
Not exactly unfamiliar situation to myself, I have seen disruptive barbarians and characters of well known CN alignment who tend to do whatever they please, but I don't consider that a real roleplay.
When I did mention roleplay, I meant it from pure aesthetic perspective.
Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis
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I really don't think that anyone should expect much of any PC's backstory, if any, to come up in PFS.
I do think, a name, basic description, and willingness to have more than a single expectation of race and class, is fair.
Seems fair to me.
What I find most amusing about this whole thing is that the class really does't tell you that much anymore. Just saying Oracle or Cleric doesn't allow you to figure out what combat role to expect from them. A Life Oracle is quite a bit different than a Bone or Battle Oracle. When you start adding in the various archetypes, any expectations based on class become even less relevant.
A Ranger? Great, if you could just cast Entangle on those baddies?
Sorry, not that kind of Ranger. I'm a Trapper. No spells.
A Rogue? Great, if you could just deactivate this trap?
Sorry, not that kind of Rogue. I'm an Acrobat. No Trapfinding.
It isn't just a few classes that have this, just about every class has enough different ways of playing them that you can not accurately anticipate what to expect the character to do in combat based on just class and race.
Even without an ounce of personality, I don't feel that stating just race and class is sufficient introduction for a character.
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I am quite inspired to create a "Gentleman Barbarian" now.
Although he just died to a murderous boss in Thornkeep, we had a Barbarian PC in our area modeled after a Canadian hockey player. In addition to his hilarious accent, and equating everything in game to hockey, he specialized in Overrun and nonlethal damage (because he was too nice to draw real blood).
His replacement character is going to be a Cavalier modeled after the Royal Mounties.
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My kitsune Mobile Fighter is currently running through Emerald Spire. Last night, she got bored (because the party killed everything too quickly) and annoyed (because they wouldn't let her keep the shinies). So she wandered off, went up the stairs to the next level, and missed the entire boss fight. Our GM was giving me evil looks because he hadn't drawn the map of the next floor yet.
Our tengu has red feathers and eats eyeballs, the sylph bloodrager is a pain, the arcanist is the only mature one in the group, the cleric got high... Class and race really doesn't matter. If the player wants a personality for their character, they'll play the personality. If all they want is a set of stats and dice, that's their issue.
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I am necroing this, because of my new experience, as a PFS Judge.
I actually had someone describe their PC as "Average Human Fighter".
I responded with "So, what does he look like?", and the player got frustrated, and answered "I just told you".
I actually took time, to give the players a chance to describe their PCs, and "Average Human Fighter" is what I got.
I was flabbergasted.
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Contributor
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Yeah, this thread... really makes me want to avoid PFS. I suppose maybe if I scouted out a group for a little while first, it might be OK.
But all the "you're a cleric, so you heal me" and "you have to tell me everything in mechanical terms so I can stereotype you" responses make it feel like a wargame. I have Warmachine for that. :/
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Contributor
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Paul Maplesden via the Asheville Lodge provides these character background sheets on their website. Pass these out to your group and tell them to complete them for the next game.
Thank you for linking this! :)
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I may be a selfish bard, that likes all the pretty things, but what's more inspiring, a chat or song during a fight, or watching a goblin try to release its sexual frustrations on the barbarian?
you do realize that setting someone on fire IS how goblins say "I love you" right?
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What the heck does a "Average Human" look like?
Seems pretty straightforward to me. Average height, average race (light brown), average hair colour and eye colour, and average gender.
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I really cannot imagine scenario where player caused dire calamity, disfunction and major trouble or death for entire party or player due to his roleplay of a character. Should this terrible situation appear, I am sure GM who knows out of game what character really is, can solve the issue quietly and nicely.
I see this sort of thing all the time. Failed diplomacy attempts are usually the most common result. But just the other day I saw a character die because of another character's role-playing. The party had succeeded in the mission and were simply trying to get out of the dungeon. There were some obviously tough monsters in the way. The general party consensus was to simply try to run past the monsters and escape, but one of the players proclaimed that his character would never run from a fight and charged in. The rest of the party felt obliged to support their comrade in arms and joined the battle to support him. One of them died because of it.
When it comes to character introductions, what race and class you are is not that important to me. What is important is what job your character fulfills, because without that, I don't know where you fit in the team and thus how to work with you as a team member. So if you have created some mysterious character you feel wouldn't tell their teammates what you can do (and this is something I have encountered occasionally) I have to ask why your character would have ever joined an organization whose motto includes the word 'co-operate.'
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Grand sweeping backstories can certainly be a hindrance in PFS because no one at the table will have even a small fraction of the investment that you do, and they probably don't want to hear about it uninvited and without context, and we'd never get to adventure if everyone read their 20-page tragic backstory before every adventure. A backstory isn't a character, but they're a fantastic tool when used to inform personality and motivations. Well-developed and notable personalities and strong general motivations, especially their motives for being a pathfinder, or "quirks" are a lot more useful in the episodic PFS format when you're only ever guaranteed a few hours to interact with the adventures and the other players. Some of my most fun characters have deep backstories that have made them who they are, but those stories have never fully seen the light of day past some glances during scenarios and there really isn't much reason for them to.
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you do realize that setting someone on fire IS how goblins say "I love you" right?I may be a selfish bard, that likes all the pretty things, but what's more inspiring, a chat or song during a fight, or watching a goblin try to release its sexual frustrations on the barbarian?
The goblin pretty much "hugged" him, as he was being beaten down by said barbarian..... *sigh* Such an abusive relationship... Unfortunately, the goblin didn't have the tools for fire.....
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About the "average" thing, what comes to my mind is the character we have seen in so many video games: muscled, white, slighty taller than the actual average, brown hair cut short, slight stubble. Add armor and a big sword and you have your generic fighter.
It actually annoys me that this is the first image that came to my mind.
Where I'm from, everyone usually has at least some idea what their characters look like, sometimes the backstories are not that thought-out, but eh, there are times I also go find a cool mechanic and figure out the what the character is like after a couple of games.
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One of the first things I do when creating a character is do a web search for pictures and try to find one that approximates how I see the character. In some cases, if I find a picture that is close and particularly cool, I may modify my concept of the character to more closely match the picture I found.
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One of the first things I do when creating a character is do a web search for pictures and try to find one that approximates how I see the character. In some cases, if I find a picture that is close and particularly cool, I may modify my concept of the character to more closely match the picture I found.
I have the problem that I figure out what the character looks like in my mind -- probably vaguely pictured, better described, but getting into our not really "seeing" things in our "minds eye" as well as we think we do is a horrible tangent I don't want to get onto right now -- but then I can't find a picture anywhere that matches quite what I'm looking for.
Every time I do this, I say that next time I'm going to find the picture first. Then I forget to do that.
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I find that Play By Post games are universally better about avoiding this problem. The layer of abstraction provided by the entire game being in print (and, admittedly, slower) means that everyone has at the very least basic role-play going on and often will have a fully developed character.
That said, sometimes it is fun to go to a Con and just beat down an evil wizard with a bunch of cliche characters.
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I always get annoyed when I get refereed to as just "Elf" or "Oracle" or "Hey You" or "Healer" when playing as this character. His name can be a bit intimidating to say as his full name is fairly long (Thutmose Amenkno Sekehimb) yet you could just call him "Thutmose" or "Thut" or "Mose" or "Amenkno" or "Sekehimb" or "Seke" or "Himb" or even just "Tas" by using only his initials. I even bring a picture to better help better represent Thutmose.
I also enjoy playing my characters more on a story basis rather than a cookie cutter character like "Bob the Generic Fighter".
If your like me you spend hours upon hours, several books open at once, making sure not only is the character right from a mechanical and from a level progressional standpoint, but from an aesthetic view as well. Light or heavy backstory, a name that fits, abilities/items/spells/feats/traits/skills/attributes that all mesh well together to make the character. Even to go look for a picture on the internet that better displays the vision one might have for the character. Yet there is even more to a character like their Mannerisms and their Quirks or what they like/dislike.
#1) He can as a level 5 character, speak eight different languages and can actually be the "Face" of the party if needed. Like for instance in one adventure we skipped 3/4ths of the fights because my character could talk to the enemy and be reasonable with the enemies.
#2) Needs zero food or water as long as he gets 4-hours of sunlight per day and is the least likely one to get afflicted by a disease unless its magical.
#3) He can as a SLA, use Astral Caravan aka Shadow Walk to transport himself and five others party members at a rate of 50miles per hour for at max 5 hours per day. In later levels he will be able to not only Shadow Walk as a SLA but Dimension Door as well.
#4) He can also, when the revelation is obtained he can as a SLA Scry for 10 minutes per day in 1-minute increments as long as the Sun is out.
#5) With cantrips he can: Purify Food and Drink, Create Water, Stabilize, Detect Poison, Read Magic, Mending.
#6) Three wands on hand (Cure Light Wounds, Keep Watch, Bed of Iron) that assist the party, 2/3 for traveling.
