You are your Race and Class, and nothing more


Pathfinder Society

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Grand Lodge

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I have noticed a trend in a number of PFS games, that other than your Race and Class(and sometimes god), nobody gives a damn about your character.

I have been in games, where I have no idea what any of my fellow PCs even look like. Your basic look, attitude, and assumed tactics, are already preprogrammed into everyone's mind, based on these two aspects.

I have, at times, felt no desire to create a look, or any flavor, for my PFS PCs, as it seems meaningless, and never comes up.

Has anyone else had any similar experiences?

If so, how have you handled them?

5/5 *****

Most of my gaming is done online nowadays and we always go through character introductions and description. I dont really recognise your depiction. Even at Aetherrcon over this weekend when games were pretty packed in it was still happening.

2/5

I understand what your saying. A lot of the people around me know enough about the game where if you are a thing and do a thing they can figure out your entire characters build and bonuses.
I tend to when this is the case delve into roleplay more because combat is just going to be hitting a magic number. As of late when this has come up we tend to milk the social interactions and just run through the combat.
Doesn't always work and sometimes I find the opposite a problem as well (where the PC is too much persona).

Grand Lodge 3/5

I've been getting better with some of my character introductions.

My dwarf Battlerager used to be just, dwarf barb that likes to punch things. Now he's a Dwarf Battlerager who tends to specialize in getting into his enemy's face, and try to give the proper beat down. The only thing on him that looks somewhat maintained are his weapons and armor, everything else is overused, dirty, and highly unhygienic (plus he makes dead bodies smell somewhat pleasant). He is my Murder Hobo, and revels in the fact that he pleases his god, Gorum, whenever he gets called to a mission. Sure, he doesn't put out damage that blows things out of the water, but it's more of a, "Okay, let's try P/B/S/Grapple to see how mister baddie reacts." If there's a squishy near him, the dwarf is going to try and get in between it and the baddie, or grapple/pin so others can get the kill it. He also tends to be quiet unless raging or with another follower of Gorum. Because of his normal interactions with people, he also hasn't had any relationships...... until he met Miss Feathers.


I've never played in a society game, but what I've done before for home games is use a clear clipboard, and have character art that matches my character facing out the back. This way it's a visual reminder to the other players of how my character looks.

Although I've seen the problem you're discussing, but in regards to names. I've had campaigns where five sessions in, nobody has actually asked or exchanged names in character.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

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Having a picture of your character that you can show at the beginning of the session helps.

It also helps if your build isn't all that predictable. If you demonstrate a few abilities that your race/class normally doesn't have, people start paying more attention.

Grand Lodge 3/5

Ascalaphus wrote:

Having a picture of your character that you can show at the beginning of the session helps.

It also helps if your build isn't all that predictable. If you demonstrate a few abilities that your race/class normally doesn't have, people start paying more attention.

A Dwarf moving 30' off the bat ain't all that normal from my experience... Then again, where I play, I haven't seen a lot of Dwarfs.....

1/5 * RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

I had success in arriving at the table early and roleplaying a little with the other players before the session starts.

2/5

I would throw in faction too but yeah that does seem to be how it is.

4/5

I might not always have a personality for the plethora characters I have, but I do have an image ready for every single one of them. While I don't always get the opportunity to do introductions locally, I make it a point to have it happen when I'm GMing, even if everybody generally knows each others characters. That goes for both in person and online. I use it as an opportunity to gauge the cast and figure out how I can incorporate them into being stars of the show in some shape or form. I'm not always successful, but at least I make a conscious effort.

5/5

...the guy who sits down and says he has already GM'd this particular scenario starts grinning like an idiot and tells that he surely does hope for the higher tier.

Slave ships of Absalom spoiler:
I just wanted to take a critical gunshot from the gunslinger and live to tell the tale. The man couldn't even hit my barbarian!

Dark Archive 5/5 * Regional Venture-Coordinator, Gulf

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Don't like that? Then don't settle.

I love playing my broken, suboptimal builds. I always have one sentence that describes why the character exists. It's not so I can have a Cleric, it is so the undertaker can enjoy serving Pharasma, and offers every character at the table a lovely wake with a pot luck should the need arise. Play the game the way you want.

Have a reason for existing, and othere will come up with one too.

If you want the RP at the table then role play at the table. Do your job in character, instead of channeling, you "heal with the life giving power of Pharasma!" Roll dice. Don't roll to hit, "I swing my enchanted sword!" Roll dice. A good example improved the table and it does not have to be a monologue.

Talk about what you do, and in the way your character perceives it. If the GM can follow along, use a lower register and say it OOC.

The table is what you make of it, make it fabulous.

Dark Archive 5/5 *

I too have similar experiences. I will also add that most players don't even refer to ea other by their character name. Most are just concerned with the stat block they have created. This applies for a lot of games at gen con as well.
We are a good deal into the scenario and one player will ask another " what race are you"?
The rp is very limited.

1/5

I definitely felt like character personality and appearance were fairly unimportant when I was playing back home, face to face. I just got into a couple of pbp scenarios, and the rp value is greatly improved.

With my job taking me all over the world (Army) I think I may just make it my primary method of play.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Table tents really help.

5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I try to avoid disclosing my character's class, and rather focus on what he does to contribute. If I claim to play 'artillery', whether I'm bringing a sorcerer, an alchemist, a gunslinger, or a multiclass druid/fighter shouldn't matter.

A class is nothing more than a set of abilities and modifiers. It is the character who defines it.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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Roleplaying a good-aligned character—like, actually seriously legitimately good, not just a G on the sheet and not a stupid caricature—is typically enough to get your character noticed and remembered.

Grand Lodge 4/5

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Has anyone else had any similar experiences?

If so, how have you handled them?

I lead by example.

I introduce my PC in character, with a description of how he looks.

Then I try to keep true to the character when describing my actions and interactions.

Sometimes I don't succeed as well as other times. Some characters are easier to portray, and some kind of fade into the background. Sometimes no one wants more than class and race, and I kick back and just play the game.

But I've had people comment out of game about my characters, and that makes it all worth it.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I think it's interesting to note that each race-class combination has a certain... "default flavor" to it. So on those occasions where that's the type of character you've brought (frex: every dwarf I've ever seen played, ever), announcing race/class can be the simplest way to convey the personality and style of the character as well.

So sometimes, people just announcing race/class isn't so bad.

But not always, as most clerics can attest. :/

The Exchange 5/5

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Paul Maplesden via the Asheville Lodge provides these character background sheets on their website. Pass these out to your group and tell them to complete them for the next game. I think many players have an idea about what their character looks and acts like, but they go with the flow at the table. I agree with blackbloodtroll; in most cases when I sit down with players his statement is the status quo. I find it very frustrating, but I also believe that Pathfinder Society scenarios foster this behavior. There is no reward for role-playing, so why are we put out when it doesn't happen? There is a ray of hope. When one player at the table begins to role-play well, it can inspire and elevate the rest of the players to follow suit. Kind of like when a player is talking with a French accent it begins to infect the speech of other people at the table.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Mekkis wrote:

I try to avoid disclosing my character's class, and rather focus on what he does to contribute. If I claim to play 'artillery', whether I'm bringing a sorcerer, an alchemist, a gunslinger, or a multiclass druid/fighter shouldn't matter.

A class is nothing more than a set of abilities and modifiers. It is the character who defines it.

It can. If someone tells me they're playing a monk for example, I know my druid has to prepare the spell list with two animal companions in mind. If I know you're a gun slinger I'll take out the lightly armored mook and leave the heavier one to you, if you're an archer I'll hit the heavier one and be a lot more worried about the +4 Cover bonus from my keister. If I know someone is a rogue I can walk around with a wand of vanish out.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

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When I started PFS I made a trip to my local plastics store and picked up a 5x7 standing photo holder (I don't know if it actually has a name) to display my character's tent. They're only a couple bucks and they take up virtually no table space. I usually try to find some creative art online and I add in my PC's name, race and class. They're also great for displaying printouts of party buffs, so they help make you memorable, too.

Voices help, though, too. And mannerisms. But different character concepts really take the cake.

When I played my Dwarf I wore a fake beard and viking helmet. I RPed him pretty stereotypically. I ran up to the front line with my Waraxe. Everyone thought they knew everything about him.

And then he'd perform Spell Combat.

And then his Quasit Familiar would attack from Invisibility.

Nobody usually saw that coming, and it made him quite memorable.

Silver Crusade 1/5 *

My new thing is that I don't tell you what class, faction, or alignment I am. I tell you what race (unless there's a reason not to) and what you can expect out of my character during the scenarion.

For instance, for my alchemist, I'll say "This character is a wayang. During the scenario, you can expect some ranged damage, a few knowledge checks, and maybe some minor semi-magical support. Other than that don't expect much."

For my inquisitor, I would say "You're going to get top-notch ranged damage, a lot of skills, and a ton of support spells."

Now, on the alchemist, the first time I throw a bomb it's fairly obvious what he is. Other characters it's easier to hide what they are if that's what the character would want to do.

Dark Archive 5/5 * Regional Venture-Coordinator, Gulf

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My wayang has a hat so he looks like a halfling, but he only knows a little about them. He mostly knows they like pie.

"I am a Halfling, and I like pie. You better be careful." God forbid a Halfling asks him a question in Halfling. He never learned the language.

That is usually memorable, except for the shadow magic illusions and puppet show.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
My new thing is that I don't tell you what class, faction, or alignment I am.

I've tried this, as has another one of my local players. But when some of our newer players specifically ask everyone at the table for their race/class to write it down along with character names, I don't put up much resistance. It just isn't important enough at the moment, and I hope that my example will inspire them as they develop their roleplaying skills.

Lantern Lodge 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Has anyone else had any similar experiences?

If so, how have you handled them?

I think, from a DM's side of things, if they're running a game at a retail store or a convention, time is an issue, and they sometimes slide past things like character role-play or individual PC introduction. They may be focused on making sure the table gets to finish the adventure in the available time slot.

As a player, I try to be sure at the start of the game to at least take time and get everyone to introduce their character. If you ask a DM, "Can we do character introductions?" they'll almost always be accommodating. While everyone's range of RPing ability varies, I think one should at least get the sense of who you're adventuring with.

To a certain extent, how much character description, how much role-playing, how much of your character's personality...how much it all comes out at the table depends on YOU as a player making the extra effort. You can certainly sit back and just role dice, if that's your thing (or you're having an off day, or whatever). Everyone gets something different out of this game we love. You should strive for what you enjoy - If you're looking for more RPing flavor: ask people about their characters, have a little mini RP session with the player to your left, try diplomacy with the kobolds (rather than just hacking them down), make a go of animal empathy...whatever. You get out of this what you put into it.

Silver Crusade 2/5

I found during my career that announcing my class often had an actively negative impact: people would forget that I had the highest AC and second-highest damage at the table (varying with table makeup, of course). But as soon as I said "cleric" it's all "oh good a healer" and "stay behind me even though your AC is 10 points higher than mine" and "you should definitely sack that spell slot to heal me for one round instead of literally teleporting the monster to Hell".

But alas, even if I don't use the word "cleric" during introductions, marching around in a gleaming mithral breastplate and dripping with holy symbols and divine magic kind of gives it away. :/

Scarab Sages 4/5

Thomas, the Tiefling Hero! wrote:
But alas, even if I don't use the word "cleric" during introductions, marching around in a gleaming mithral breastplate and dripping with holy symbols and divine magic kind of gives it away. :/

I guess you have the wrong heritage to be mistaken for a paladin, brother.

Silver Crusade 2/5

Paladin Ardelaneu Zakath wrote:
Thomas, the Tiefling Hero! wrote:
But alas, even if I don't use the word "cleric" during introductions, marching around in a gleaming mithral breastplate and dripping with holy symbols and divine magic kind of gives it away. :/
I guess you have the wrong heritage to be mistaken for a paladin, brother.

On the contrary: on the rare occasion that my class is forgotten, people start calling me "paladin".

Scarab Sages 4/5

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I take no offense from their mistake. Powers do not make the man, the mindset does.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Thomas, the Tiefling Hero! wrote:
I found during my career that announcing my class often had an actively negative impact.

I feel your pain.

I chose a short-ranged firearm because I've trained to be on the front lines.

If I had a copper for every time a someone with 3/4s my HP and 20 less AC, got themselves knocked out by trying to 'save' me...

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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Honestly, it depends on the table in general and, moreso, the player in specific.

As a GM, I ask everyone to describe their character briefly, what they do, and say a line or two in character.

Some folks will ramble on for two minutes with a detailed breakdown of what the character is wearing while others will just say "I'm (name). I cast fire spells...uh...that's it."

As a GM you can set the players up to do a well-rounded (but brief) character intro, but since each player has different reasons for playing and an individual tolerance with the social spotlight, not everyone will use it the same.

Silver Crusade 2/5

Paladin Ardelaneu Zakath wrote:
I take no offense from their mistake. Powers do not make the man, the mindset does.

...Why would I take offense at being mistaken for a paladin?

Scarab Sages 4/5

Some people are touchy about who the title is applied to.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

Better for those who are stalwart in defense of others or the prosecution of destruction upon the evils that stand against the Society to be held in brighter light than they wish, than for those who hold such graces to squander them and bring them low.

1/5

I am interested in interesting characters played by people that also interest me

Silver Crusade 2/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

And speaking of not wanting to mention class, I'm seriously considering not mentioning mine anymore. If I say "I'm a swordsman", people correctly surmise that I'm competent at swordplay, but they don't carry any other assumptions about my people skills or my moral integrity or my intellectual capacity.

Conversely, saying "bloodrager" is like blowing up the dam on Assumption River.

*sigh*

Grand Lodge

This sort of blew up whilst I slept. Let's see if I can catch up.

I actually do draw every single PFS PC I create.

I am pretty alright at drawing, though, it has, on occasion, been reacted to with a "Um, okay, moving on...".

I do try to use table tents, but sometimes table space is, minimal.

As far as race goes, there are a number of, built in assumptions.

For example, when needing to be diplomatic in a scenario, it was pushed that the Gnome PC to lead, even though my Half-Orc PC had much higher Diplomacy(and I noted so to others), and Gnome actually dumped charisma.

Now, this isn't every experience, but it has been happening a bit more often then I had hoped.

Sovereign Court 3/5

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From my own experience I think that a lot of times this problem is a lot like nobody wanting to ask a question or answer a question in class. A lot of players new to tabletop gaming are nervous to roleplay or aren't familiar with the right time to jump in. So while they are sitting there playing a Half-Orc Barbarian 2 in their head he might have a disgruntled ex wife, three kids who left the family barbarian business to be wizards and a secret love of chelish opera but you would never know. So the best thing to do at time is just keep playing a character with character and show them how it is done. Sometimes you just have to draw people out a bit to help them be comfortable with the concept of a character actually having character and I definitely have to echo that table tents can be super helpful.

Silver Crusade

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My gnome will happily tell you that he's an alchemist, my bard looks completely like a human, and my priestess of Iomedae is completely insistent that she has divine powers.

None of which is true.

Grand Lodge

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I am not talking about heavy roleplay, and deep character development.

I am not even talking about delving into any PC's intricate backstory.

Just trying to visualize what my fellow PCs look like, and not being railroaded with preconceived stereotypes of race, and class.

You could have a NG Half-Orc Armored Hulk Barbarian, in majestic Full-plate, who is a bastion of good, diplomatic, well-groomed,and a devout follower of Iomedae, and even calls himself a "Paladin".

That won't mean squat, because you are a big dumb, ugly, feral Half-Orc Barbarian. Every PC, and NPC is going to treat you that way, and be damned if you act differently, roleplay your PC, you will be asked time, and time again, "I thought you were a Half-Orc Barbarian?"

That is the kind of stuff that gets me.

2/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Indeed, "class-ism" is a nasty thing.

5/5

Having character introductions really does help. I make a point to ask for them when I GM, and will often do so when I play as well if the GM doesn't. Sometimes I'll heave a few questions to help flesh out the more reticent players as well, and on a few occasions that's really seemed to help.

Strong roleplayers with a defined but simple concept can really draw out other players as well. I ran the whole Glories of the Past series this weekend at a con and had two players who ran the whole way through and did admirably but really got more into their roles when a new player showed up in the last spot, always using a heavy German accent when he spoke in character. Suddenly the earlier two players remembered their characters would have accents as well and the table really bonded over having the three Germans.

Grand Lodge

I guess it doesn't help that I like to build PCs outside of the stereotypes of race and class.

Scarab Sages

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As someone who comes up with odd/wacky character concepts, class means nothing. I have a Halfling charge specialist, mounted on his animal companion (Not a Cavalier). My non-PrC Red-Mantis initiate multiclass, a face that you can't tell isn't who he says he is (Kitsune Trickster), a Howitzer Monk (Zen Archer - 42AC frontliner), my Monkbarian that charges in after looking like a Wizard most of the time (even have a book on my hip), and a playtest Occultist "Harry Dresden" who passes out business cards stating that he's a wizard. Almost none of my characters do what's expected, and all of the prominent GMs in our area ask what shenanigans I'm bringing to the table that night

Grand Lodge

Indeed.

Class really means nothing, in regards to how your character looks, and behaves.

Now imagine, if it did, in the eyes of others.

That's what I am talking about.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Maybe that's why some people just announce race and class? Because they're playing characters who match what comes to mind when you hear it?

Lantern Lodge 5/5

I announce race and "class whose stereotypical representation matches my character best."

So, typically "fighter." It saves headaches.

Lantern Lodge 4/5

This is probably why I enjoy playing characters I'm invested with than just pumping out another cookie-cutter build. Also sad when they become retired.

5/5

It's definitely fun to turn that on its head. One of my buddies has a character called Bob the Human Fighter, who I believe is a half-orc ranger with favored enemy: human.

Roles are easy to deacribe though and help avoid misrepresenting to the party if you have a creative build, and I like that warhorn includes them in its signups. I describe one of my characters as a natural weapon barbarian, although that leaves out the levels in fighter, monk, bard, and dragon disciple. In the introductions, she describes herself as the society's strongest wizard.

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