So discussion from this thread got me thinking.
I want to build a warrior who doesn't wear any armor, and ostensibly goes naked into battle painted up in woad blue, but there a very few classes that can work without armor.
The best I can think of is a Kensai Magus, but I want to see what you all are capable of coming up with. Only real guidelines are must wield some sort of weapon effectively (but I don't care if it it's sword and board, two handed, a spear, etc) and can't wear armor.
How would bloodrager or barbarian work? They both normally wear armor.
Edit: Just looked at Savage Barbarian. I guess it would work pretty well, though still probably have a pretty low AC, though barbarians normally due anyways. That might work out okay.
Monk, Sacred fist, Invulnerable barbarian. Wizard, Sorcerer, arcanist. Flame oracle, flame bard, anyone with fog and see through fog.
Really, not haveing Armor isn't that bad if you A) don't care about being hit. Or B) have a way to boost AC. Or C) a way to create a mischance.
Go wild rager and just go nuts. Drop your ac to a 1 but just try to kill things fast enough.
How would bloodrager or barbarian work? They both normally wear armor.
Edit: Just looked at Savage Barbarian. I guess it would work pretty well, though still probably have a pretty low AC, though barbarians normally due anyways. That might work out okay.
Well, I know that bloodragers with the destined bloodline get a up to a +5 luck bonus to saves and AC (+6 if you grab fate's favored). Play a primalist and you can grab beast totem powers too, which can nab up to another +6. You lose 2 AC due to rage, but I think you could do well with bracers of armor to cover the rest.
Slightly less AC, but you retain the normal damage reduction.
Neither Monk nor sacred fist fit the flavor. They both focus on unarmed strikes which is not this characters thing.
The savage barbarian is probably the closest thing flavor wise. Wizard, sorcerer, and arcanist are straight out. I mean, did you catch the part about using weapons effectively?
BBT, how does oracle help? Sidestep Secret?
Now I'm thinking an Lore Oracle/Bloodrager (with Arcane bloodline).
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A tiefling cross-blooded draconic sorceror could work pretty well. Having the 2nd bloodline by Abyssal (heck yeah Charisma counts as 2 points higher for sorceror stuff) for the strenth boost at 9th combined with dragon disciple's strength boost pretty much counters the low BAB for the first 5 levels. (Only 1 BAB behind a magus at that point.)
Trade the spell-like ability for a bite attack - and you get claws for a bunch of rounds a day with draconic bloodline. You rarely if ever run out of rounds with the claws, and on rounds when you only get a single swing, don't manifest the claws and you get 1.5x strength damage with the bite. If you find yourself running out of claw rounds - just take Eldrich Heritage in another bloodline with claws. (likely not needed)
Also - take the nat armor tiefling feat for +2 nat armor. Between that and mage armor your AC should be okay. Eventually aim for dragon disciple and watch the nat armor start stacking.
(I played that style character for a short time - he thought that he was a half-dragon instead of a tiefling since he'd been raised by a blue dragon who wanted to use him as a pawn. Unfortunately the campaign died. *tear*)
The triple nat attack combos well with Chill Touch.
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Neither Monk nor sacred fist fit the flavor. They both focus on unarmed strikes which is not this characters thing.
The savage barbarian is probably the closest thing flavor wise. Wizard, sorcerer, and arcanist are straight out. I mean, did you catch the part about using weapons effectively?
BBT, how does oracle help?
Lame equal Rage cycling, scroll buffs, and you can choose to pick a mystery that allows for charisma to be used for AC and Reflex saves.
I mean, if you are going to be a naked warrior, then why not a handsome naked warrior?
Neither Monk nor sacred fist fit the flavor. They both focus on unarmed strikes which is not this characters thing.
The savage barbarian is probably the closest thing flavor wise. Wizard, sorcerer, and arcanist are straight out. I mean, did you catch the part about using weapons effectively?
BBT, how does oracle help?
Lame equal Rage cycling, scroll buffs, and you can choose to pick a mystery that allows for charisma to be used for AC and Reflex saves.
I mean, if you are going to be a naked warrior, then why not a handsome naked warrior?
I think you've convinced me to build a Lame Lore Oracle Bloodrager because of this. Focus on strength, con, and cha. I can use spells to buff AC and if I use the arcane bloodline I can get free mirror image and haste during combat. This is starting to sound pretty awesome.
Neither Monk nor sacred fist fit the flavor. They both focus on unarmed strikes which is not this characters thing.
The savage barbarian is probably the closest thing flavor wise. Wizard, sorcerer, and arcanist are straight out. I mean, did you catch the part about using weapons effectively?
BBT, how does oracle help? Sidestep Secret?
Now I'm thinking an Lore Oracle/Bloodrager (with Arcane bloodline).
You could go for a nice temple sword, which actually gets 1.5x power attack with each hit in flurry of blows. That would even leave room for an amulet of natural armor.
Oh, another suggestion- go tiefling. They have a feat that lets them have +2 natural armor, which is fairly nice (along side their spread 3 energy resistances)
Neither Monk nor sacred fist fit the flavor. They both focus on unarmed strikes which is not this characters thing.
The savage barbarian is probably the closest thing flavor wise. Wizard, sorcerer, and arcanist are straight out. I mean, did you catch the part about using weapons effectively?
Monks and SF can spec for weapons as much as anyone. They TWF with one weapon, SF can get crusaders flurry if you need. But they can be just as effective with weapons as anyone else. Monk has weapon master and sohei too.
Wizards, sorcerers, and Arcanist can all do melee with weapons. Arcanist can get a arcane weapon. Arcanist have the brown-fur transmuter, making them able to have a +4 str from it when they enlarge themselves.
Take 18 str, enlarge, blur, haste, bull's str are all things that can help you do excellent in melee combat. First 2 levels they are the same as the 3/4 bab classes, but with "better" spells. Later they can get shape-changing, dragon disciple for more str and better bab.
I understand these might not fit with your view of the character, but they all can do the job well.
Neither Monk nor sacred fist fit the flavor. They both focus on unarmed strikes which is not this characters thing.
The savage barbarian is probably the closest thing flavor wise. Wizard, sorcerer, and arcanist are straight out. I mean, did you catch the part about using weapons effectively?
Monks and SF can spec for weapons as much as anyone. They TWF with one weapon, SF can get crusaders flurry if you need. But they can be just as effective with weapons as anyone else. Monk has weapon master and sohei too.
Wizards, sorcerers, and Arcanist can all do melee with weapons. Arcanist can get a arcane weapon. Arcanist have the brown-fur transmuter, making them able to have a +4 str from it when they enlarge themselves.
Take 18 str, enlarge, blur, haste, bull's str are all things that can help you do excellent in melee combat. First 2 levels they are the same as the 3/4 bab classes, but with "better" spells. Later they can get shape-changing, dragon disciple for more str and better bab.I understand these might not fit with your view of the character, but they all can do the job well.
Oh yeah, forgot about the sohei since I always think of them as the 'monks with armor'. But they do keep the unarmored AC bonuses, and honestly, I've found that with the right equipment, an unarmored monk has higher AC and one with light armor (it might get to low heavy territory honestly... all of which is touch AC)
Once they get weapon training (which is a nice bonus to damage- too bad unarmored means they can't grab gloves of dueling-still, up to a nice +3 to attack and damage), they can flurry with weapons from the polearm group if they want. And oddly, that includes the nodachi (greatsword sized katana basically).
If you're an Aasimar you can take Enlightened Warrior and multiclass monk/savage barbarian to get pretty solid AC. Otherwise a one level dip into sacred fist warpriest will give you the +Wis to AC that savage barbarian can take advantage of.
Ninjas actually do quite well with no armor since they get mirror images, invisibility and greater invisibility as supernatural abilities as well as smoke bombs and other forms of non-detection and miss chances meaning that while their AC won't be very high, they still won't be hit very often.
There's the Kyton bloodline power for bloodrager from ACO:
Armor of Chains (Su): At 8th level, you gain resistance 5 to cold and the chains covering your body provide a +4 armor bonus to AC with no armor check penalty, maximum Dexterity bonus, or additional weight. At 16th level, the resistance increases to 10 and the armor bonus increases to +8.
Monks and SF can spec for weapons as much as anyone. They TWF with one weapon, SF can get crusaders flurry if you need. But they can be just as effective with weapons as anyone else. Monk has weapon master and sohei too.
Wizards, sorcerers, and Arcanist can all do melee with weapons. Arcanist can get a arcane weapon. Arcanist have the brown-fur transmuter, making them able to have a +4 str from it when they enlarge themselves.
Take 18 str, enlarge, blur, haste, bull's str are all things that can help you do excellent in melee combat. First 2 levels they are the same as the 3/4 bab classes, but with "better" spells. Later they can get shape-changing, dragon disciple for more str and better bab.I understand these might not fit with your view of the character, but they all can do the job well.
These just don't fit at all with the view of the character. Monk has the "lawful" baggage going along with it. With just doesn't jibe with my idea of crazy naked warrior. And while you can build them to use weapons, they aren't really as well tuned for it as other classes.
And the wizard, sorcerers, and arcanist just don't belong...at all. I'm looking for 3/4 or full BAB classes. I'm not super familiar with the brown fur transmuter, but they're just not going to keep up in combat in my opinion. I don't want spells to be a focus. Dabbling in magic is one thing, but 9th level spell casting classes just do not fit at all.
Also, why Lore, instead of Lunar?
They're equivalent in this instance. Lore has Sidestep Secret, Lunar has Prophesied Armor. They both do the same thing.
These just don't fit at all with the view of the character. Monk has the "lawful" baggage going along with it. With just doesn't jibe with my idea of crazy naked warrior. And while you can build them to use weapons, they aren't really as well tuned for it as other classes.
Not really. As I said, a monk with a 2 handed weapon gets 2 handed power attack damage on every hit. That means x3 power attack between the two 'hands' of flurry's false TWF. Most builds only get a total of x1.5 power attack (2handed fighters can get x2, not sure if there are any others).
And remember, monks are treated as having full BAB during this (as FAQ have shown). So you are getting a fairly decent chunk of damage there during full attacks with full BAB power attacks.
With sohei, you also grab weapon training close to par with the fighter's (enough that their standard action attacks aren't exactly anything to laugh at either). It would be more if you went with normal armor instead of bracers of armor, since it frees you up for gloves of dueling (which gives another +2 to weapon training, which puts even their standard action attacks at least on par with an inquisitor). But eh.
Now, I understand monk is not exactly appropriate for your concept (you have to be a very serious tantra user in order to do something like that.... although I hear that is mostly just the version that became popular in the west because... hippies. So you have to be a crazy violent hippy). I am just saying that monks can be great with actual weapons.
Erik Mona's PC Ostog the Unslain is a barbarian who just doesn't wear any armor. See his SRD entry. Three days ago he tweeted "OSTOG REMAINS UNSLAIN! 48 sessions and STILL no armor!"
Sometimes being awesome is all the rules support you need.
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Erik Mona's PC Ostog the Unslain is a barbarian who just doesn't wear any armor. See his SRD entry. Three days ago he tweeted "OSTOG REMAINS UNSLAIN! 48 sessions and STILL no armor!"
Sometimes being awesome is all the rules support you need.
Isn't Ostog the Unslain a rolled character with way above average stats? @_@???
Is Paladin out? How about Mystery Cultist of Arshea? Takes a while to get there, but if they're naked or wearing skimpy clothing, they get their Cha mod as an armor bonus.
Paladin...doesn't really fit. I'm not even sure what paladin would bring to the table for a naked combatant.
I'm also not even certain what a Mystery Cultist of Ashera is, but it sounds too casty. The point of this character is at least 3/4 BAB, naked, wielding weapons.
I admit monk might work okay, but the flavor just doesn't seem right to me. They're also mechanically subpar 90% of the time, especially with weapons as compared to other classes. They can do well if they focus on unarmed combat, but I feel there isn't much support for armed monks. And sohei doesn't do much for me either since it takes 6 levels to use a weapon with flurry (other than a monk weapon). Though maybe I need to consider that route more.
I think savage barbarian(the archetype) will work out ok if you buy a wand of mage armor or five and use them on important occassions.
If you get dex 13 and the beast totem and defensive stance rage powers, you can wind up with AC 15(+2 dodge(SB), +1nat(SB) +3dodge(DS), +3Nat(BT)) while raging before magic items or dex mod by level 8, which is just about where a normal barbarian is from a +1 breastplate. It might be a touch low, but not cripplingly so. Add wands of mage armor or bracers of armor and other magic items and you're good.
It's not optimized by any means, but I think it works out all right. Since when have we expected barbarians to have high ac?
Also, add Savage Technologist for Dex/str rage. That'll raise your ac by 4 points compared to standard raging barbarian.
My favorite idea is to take it like a man, though. Get Invulnerable rager and the extra DR rage powers, picking up Extra Rage power with feats if you want to have pounce as well.
Then let your DR take care of your hits. The more hits you take, the more work your DR does, so beef up that hp pool.
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Just for the hell of it, I would nab the Shoanti Steed trait, just so you can ride bareback, and naked into the battlefield.
It would be like a Heavy Metal magazine cover.
I approve.
dotting because this is awesome.
This is very interesting. I have a Kensai Magus that wears a suit and tie into battle. You could easily do something similar. The Bloodrager/Oracle is very interesting. What domain for the Oracle?
You'd want it to be Lunar so you can pick up Prophetic Armor.
I'm glad I finally found a build to use my Tiefling that just barely squeezed in past the deadline, haha. This is great.
I tried something a while back that didn't work out too well, but maybe somebody else can get this to work: 4 levels of monk (martial artist archetype, so you don't have to be lawful) and the rest as a barbarian with the savage barbarian archetype. Take your pick of monk weapons as your main melee weapon and you are good to go. The only thing you would need to use your Unarmed Strike for would be to give a nasty surprise to anyone who manages to disarm you.
Savage barbarian is annoying in that you need to keep the barbarian levels coming. Personally, I'd rather do monk 2/invulnerable rager x.
Crane style & stalwart for some serious DR while fighting defensively.
Also that Trait that lets aasimars be NG monks. That way you could go for master of many styles if you wanted to.
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I tried something a while back that didn't work out too well, but maybe somebody else can get this to work: 4 levels of monk (martial artist archetype, so you don't have to be lawful) and the rest as a barbarian with the savage barbarian archetype. Take your pick of monk weapons as your main melee weapon and you are good to go. The only thing you would need to use your Unarmed Strike for would be to give a nasty surprise to anyone who manages to disarm you.
If you are going to take 4 levels of martial artist for a barbarian, you should really take five for the immunity to fatigue.
Take the Keen Scent and Blind Fighting feats and carry around an Eversmoking Bottle
This deserves bonus points for coolness.
Is 3rd party material permitted? If so 2 things come to mind.
First of all the rogue genius anachronistic adventures enforcer product has an avoidance feat chain that effectively replaces armor.
Second, if the character need not be human, the Kobold Kings again by rogue genius games has a fighter archetype, the apocalypse fighter, that grants a scaling armor bonus as part of its tough hide (this is an armor bonus, not a natural armor bonus) but it's still its own actual scales, not seperate armor. There is also options in that product for a kobold to be comparable to the pc races, and even be medium sized with a strength bonus.
Sort of defeats the whole "bared to the world" thing though.Take the Keen Scent and Blind Fighting feats and carry around an Eversmoking BottleThis deserves bonus points for coolness.
Yes, but the thought that a large blue painted, naked orc is going to come up behind you in the smoke and get you seems like an.... interesting image. It will strike fear into the hearts of the enemy.
"Shhh...Iz over now, Jah?"
