Hi wonderful people. My favorite way of playing pathfinder has been Necromancy. There is a few guides out there for Necromancy but not as in depth as i think we can get. So i decided to start compiling everything I've learned about playing this "style" in a sort of explanation of builds and classes.
RIVER OF STYX: A GUIDE TO THE ART OF NECROMANCY
This is just a start and it is a work in progress, but I've been working hard on it and want to know what you guys think. :)
THANKS!
fixed it
added that, plus another build i worked on today. i was sticking with core races for simplicity sake, but Samsaran is just too good to ignore
Tonight another build is being added, a shaman necromancer build!
builds updated, and additional builds posted. 8 builds so far, 24 pages. I'm trying no to talk about each build longer then i should. Any recommendations would be appreciated since this is my first guide. THANKS
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Staff of the Master Necromancy is probably one of the best staff ever made. Use charges for metamagic.
Spell Perfection (Double the values of static bonuses from feats on a spell), I would need to double check how many feats boost undead or at least spell perfection could be used for the line of Summon Undead spells with the usual Superior Summon, augment summoning etc...
ill add a note of that in there, thanks. Added another build this morning as well, the Cruoromancer. thats a fun one :)
I think your Words of Power section greatly underestimates them.
you can ramp up a spell's power very quickly by stacking multiple descriptors or spell schools via WoP's combined wordspells--for example if you use a fog cloud+undeath spell, you get your spell focus feat bonuses for both necromancy and conjuration on it if you have them. it makes spell perfection an immensely powerful option, since it doubles all feat-based bonuses applied to the selected spell.
by being able to mix-and-match what spell combos you're using and what saves you want to affect (with smart wordpsell choices you can have debilitating effects hit any save you want) and the above DC-pumping, you are an absolutely TERRIFYING debuffer if you choose to be.
also, standard action summons (or in necromancy's case: standard action component-less animate dead). this really can't be stressed enough.
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a few build submissions for the guide:
ARCANIST WORDCASTER:
human arcanist (wordcaster) 20
str 16, dex 20 (5), con 20 (5), int 32 (5+2r), wis 16, cha 24 (5)
+5 int (level), +6 all (belt/headband), +5 int/+4 cha (book/wish)
traits
reactionary / gifted adept (undeath)
reservoir
11/40 (at start of day)
exploits
1 - bloodline development (draconic [white or silver]) or school understanding (necromancy)
3 - [see above]
5 - dimensional slide
7 - spell tinkerer
9 - counterspell
11 - counter drain
13 - metamagic knowledge (persistent spell)
15 - metamixing
17 - greater metamagic knowledge (bouncing spell)
19 - item crafting (craft wondrous item?)
feats
1 - spell focus (necromancy), improved initiative
3 - varisian tattoo (necromancy)
5 - greater spell focus (necromancy)
7 - undead master
9 - bloatmage initiate (necromancy)
11 - dazing spell
13 - elemetal focus (ice)
15 - greater elemental focus (ice)
17 - spell focus (evocation)
19 - greater spell focus (evocation)
spell slots
7 / 7 / 7 / 7 / 6 / 6 / 6 / 6 / 5
EFFECT WORD COMBINATIONS
Words One ..... Two ..... Three
Level
0 0 ..... — ..... —
1st 1 ..... — ..... —
2nd 2 ..... 0/0 ..... —
3rd 3 ..... 1/1 or 2/0 ..... 0/0/0
4th 4 ..... 2/2 or 3/1 ..... 1/1/1 or 2/0/0
5th 5 ..... 3/3 or 4/2 ..... 2/2/2 or 3/1/1
6th 6 ..... 4/4 or 5/3 ..... 3/3/3 or 4/2/2
7th 7 ..... 5/5 or 6/4 ..... 4/4/4 or 5/3/3
8th 8 ..... 6/6 or 7/5 ..... 5/5/5 or 6/4/4
9th 9 ..... 7/7 or 8/5 ..... 6/6/6 or 7/5/5
words
0 - all 0-level effect/meta/target words
1 - alignment shield (alignment), burning flash (fire), dash (time), fade (concealing), fog bank (weather), force shield (armor), friendship (command), glide (flight), wrack (pain) | burst (target), line (target) | careful (meta), quiet (meta), simple (meta)
2 - accelerate (time), disappear (concealing), float (flight), frost fingers (ice), enhance form (body), energy resist (body), decelerate (time)
3 - undeath (death), servitor III (summoning), torture (pain), complex order (command), paralyze humanoid (binding), dimension hop (teleportation), lightning blast (electricity), fire blast (fire), wind wall (wall), ice blast (ice), translate (language) | barrier (target)
4 - servitor IV (summoning), ice wall (ice), acid wave (acid), bestial form (change), ice blast (ice), unseen shell (concealing), sound blast (sonic), altered form (change), borrow future (time) | manifestation (meta), mind warp (meta)
5 - servitor V (summoning), stone wall (wall), crush will (command), dimensional jump (teleportation), far casting (language) | irresistible (meta), penetrating (meta)
6 - servitor VI (summoning), negation (dispelling), resist arcana (dispelling)
7 - servitor VII (summoning), dimensional shift (teleportation), caustic cloud (acid)
8 - servitor VIII (summoning), permanent paralysis (binding), thunder strike (electricity), winter's wrath (cold)
9 - Servitor IX (summoning), control time (time), dimensional gate (teleportation)
undeath + [frost cantrip] CL 30 before gear
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MYSTIC THEURGE - NECROMANCER EDITION (this is mostly for demonstration, though in actual play it handles similarly to a sorcerer until levels 7-16)
*levels go: clr 1/wiz 5/MT 10/wiz 1/clr 3*
stats (20pb):
str 16 (-2+2r), dex 18 (5-2r), con 20 (5), int 30 (5+2r), wis 26 (7), cha 16
wis/int/int/int/int (level), +6 all (gear), +4 int/wis (book/wish)
traits: signature spell (animate dead) / gifted adept (animate dead)
feats:
1 - spell focus (necromancy)
2 - scribe scroll*, command undead*
3 - varisian tattoo (necromancy, 'touch of fatigue' 3/day)
5 - bloatmage initiate (necromancy, constant medium load)
7 - theurgy
9 - spell specialization (animate dead)
11 - persistent spell
13 - greater spell focus (necromancy)
15 - quicken spell
17 - dazing spell
19 - spell perfection (animate dead)
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SPELLS: animate dead, command undead, (greater-) death knell (-aura), and desecrate are important, but unneeded after you break the animate dead HD limit (detailed below)
WIZARD
0 (infinite), 1th (7+2/day), 2th (7+2/day), 3th (6+2/day), 4th (6+2/day), 5th (6+2/day), 6th (6+2/day), 7th (4+2/day), 8th (3+2/day), 9th (2+2/day)
CLERIC
0 (infinite), 1th (6+1/day), 2th (6+1/day), 3th (6+1/day), 4th (6+1/day), 5th (6+1/day), 6th (6+1/day), 7th (4+1/day), 8th (3+1/day), 9th (2+1/day)
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MISC:
favored class (wizard)
esoteric training (35 fame [+3 cleric, +1 wizard])
string of prayer beads ('standard' string without healing/smiting beads, 18,000g)
-->bead of karma: 1/day, +4 CL for 10 minutes (!!!)
moon circlet (CL +1 waxing, +2 full, -1 waning, -2 new)
'reliquary' +5 medium fortification spell storing mithral buckler (acts as permanent alter for desecrate)
Necromancer's Athame (20,000g)
CL 17/17 wizard/cleric
CL (animate dead) 40-43 (wiz/clr) (17 base, +4 focus, +4 spec, +2 trait, +2 tattoo, +2 bloatmage, +1 FCB, +1 stone, +(-1-+2) wayfinder, +4 bead, +2 circlet +1 death knell, +1 arcane beacon, +1 theurgy (cleric-only))
CL 30-33 (control undead) (17 base, +2 focus, +1 tattoo, +1 bloatmage, +1 FCB, +1 stone, +(-1-+2) wayfinder, +4 bead, +2 circlet, +1 death knell, +1 arcane beacon)
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UNDEAD 'BUCKETS' (not counting wayfinder variance):
animate (wizard) - 205 HD (blood command), 246 HD/cast (commanding infusion + desecrate)
animate (cleric) - 210 HD (blood command), 252 HD/cast (commanding infusion + desecrate)
feat - 6 HD
control undead - [one creature], 33 days/cast (refreshed every full moon)
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ADVICE:
-if you don't want to worship urgathoa for some reason, go with separatist cleric (any deity with the magic domain) for that and the fate inquisition.
-notice that your HD created is more than your bucket limit--animate dead lets you indefinitely keep anything you animate with that one casting--any 'overflow' is taken out of PREVIOUS castings of animate dead, so you can actually surpass your 410HD total animate limit (to a whopping 498 HD barring wayfinder variance) as long as you dont cast any more animate deads from either bucket afterwards.
note that while brwer's guide to undeath shows that undead master isn't usually worth it, since the Undeath wordspell has no interaction with desecrate, the undead master feat is usually your best option for a similar (if lesser) effect on a wordcaster necromancer.
Do you have any plans to add an Alchemist build? They're weak compared to their spellcasting counterparts, but Boneshard bomb-implanted Zombies are just too funny not to mention.
Its funny you should mention the alchemist. I'm working on it at the moment. It should be up within a few hours.
edit: ALCHEMIST BUILD IS UP
I think your Words of Power section greatly underestimates them.
you can ramp up a spell's power very quickly by stacking multiple descriptors or spell schools via WoP's combined wordspells--for example if you use a fog cloud+undeath spell, you get your spell focus feat bonuses for both necromancy and conjuration on it if you have them. it makes spell perfection an immensely powerful option, since it doubles all feat-based bonuses applied to the selected spell.
by being able to mix-and-match what spell combos you're using and what saves you want to affect (with smart wordpsell choices you can have debilitating effects hit any save you want) and the above DC-pumping, you are an absolutely TERRIFYING debuffer if you choose to be.
also, standard action summons (or in necromancy's case: standard action component-less animate dead). this really can't be stressed enough.
.
a few build submissions for the guide:
Ill add an Arcanist section to the guide.
NOTE: these build guides are supposed to show the differences between builds at earlier levels. so i don't go in depth on 15+ where the game just gets silly
Undead Arcanist added!
wordy post incoming:
i mean it's not as reality-snapping as normal casting what with not creating demiplanes and stopping time, but you're still stupid-effective at any role you choose. that, and you've already said you're not trying to focus on silly high-level play (which i agree with. the game is basically rocket tag at that point).
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brewer made two guides for WoP (one for arcane casters and one for divine), which would be helpful linked in that section ("i may not personally see the point in the system, but here's some guides on it if you're interested"-type deal), instead of just the arcanist section--speaking of the arcanist: the build was more to test out WoP in the first place for me than to recommend it solely for arcanists. arcanist necromancers with standard casting work like a more flexible sorcerer. i also went with draconic for the arcana bonus to ice spells and the scaling natural armor (i find the claws rather meh, since you're a caster--what the heck are you doing in melee?); the primal or orc bloodlines accomplish a similar effect, but i digress.
instead of trying to turn players away from WoP entirely (while you say not to let it deter them, the section is very small and rather negative), maybe just put a disclaimer that the system takes a good deal of mastery to know what you're doing and work properly? otherwise if a player decides to give it a shot without knowing what they're getting into, they're likely to hold up the table as they and their DM figure out how everything works. It's definitely got a steeper learning curve than standard spellcasting, so it's not for beginners, but it does offer respectable power.
wordy post incoming:
** spoiler omitted **...
i will update the guide accordingly, thanks for the input. Ill add its own section of the guide for the links that you put, and ill try to sound less bias on my stance. I agree WoP take a lot of mastery, and you really can do a lot of cool things with it. In terms of what someone tries to accomplish playing a necromancer, its just simpler to go regular casting.
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Interesting take and lot of builds (which is good).
I looked at the Cleric builds and noted that your selection of deities is VERY limited.
There are many gods out there who grant the Death domain.
Also, the Death domain is not at all required for a necromancer build. Except Wail of the banshee, all its spells are Cleric spells and its powers do not add to your power over undead.
Note that your guide can be of use even to a follower of Pharasma (except for the undead creation of course), especially to control undead (which is not forbidden to Pharasmin anymore BTW).
In fact, the subject of controlling undead (and wrestling their control away from an opponent) could be a good addition to this guide. For example, the bonus to CHA ability checks of the Glory domain would totally apply ;-)
Ok guys, i put another build up, The Reaper!
I'm super pumped about this one in particular, so i put in #1 in the build order, let me know what you think!
a fun note: antipaladins get both animate dead and desecrate on their spell lists. with magical knack you can bump their caster level up to [character level] -1.
they'll never have the biggest 'bucket', but they've got loads of great features (touch of corruption, channel energy, auras) to help out, and are fearsome combatants in their own right. their spell list is great as well, since it's loaded with swift-action spells and other buff goodies like bloodsworn retribution (i think) and deadly juggernaut.
i'll see if i cant throw an example build together after i've gotten some sleep. though really it's just an antipaladin who uses a trait and two spells on his list with a 'reliquary' (+150g) shield.
Somewhat counterintuitively, a spell sage is a better minion-based necromancer than a 'necromancer' specialist for wizards due to their faster access to undead creation.
Excellent guide, I enjoy seeing multiple takes on the master of undeath!
A small point of interest, Power Attack requires a +1 BAB, so it can not be selected for the 3/4 BAB classes until 3rd level. That my affect how you select feats for some of the classes.
Excellent guide, I enjoy seeing multiple takes on the master of undeath!
A small point of interest, Power Attack requires a +1 BAB, so it can not be selected for the 3/4 BAB classes until 3rd level. That my affect how you select feats for some of the classes.
thanks for pointing that out, i should add a note for the 3/4 classes, thanks!