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Thus She Spoke: A Words of Power Sorcereress Guide


Advice

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I've finished a new guide to an under-used segment of the Pathfinder System: Words of Power. Suggestions and improvements are welcome; am considering writing a second Words of Power guide for the Oracle.

The Guide: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5kvBvq2DEHjY2pwRUNXcG5Ybjg/edit


Brewer, that was a very interesting guide. I do hope you decide to rewrite the general Words guide like you suggested to Zenith; I really think the less than full casting classes could potentially benefit from using Words.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I thought it had been ruled you couldn't crossblood wildblooded bloodlines because both are archetypes that change the bloodline feature.


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This is a really nice guide. The section at the beginning where you explain words of power is really important; after reading this guide I am definitely thinking differently about that approach to spellcasting.

Also, I particularly liked the detailed breakdown and analysis of the words. The way you organized it was clearly better than the usual guide format. And the spell sheet at the end is a nice idea. As a bonus, great illustrations throughout. (Where did you get these?)

All in all, a really great guide!


You marked Lock Ward as "an interesting spell, but not one you can justify spending a known spell on" and wrote it in red. But had you considered casting it on nuts?

When you have some downtime, you can combine Lock Ward with a buff spell and cast the result on a nut. Then everyone in the party can put one of these nuts in their mouth, and bite down when combat starts. That should be a Free action and it "opens" the nut shell. Result: buffs for everyone, without the use of any actions in combat.


Lock Ward + Enhance Form/Perfect form to make awesome buff "potions".

Think your melee characters will love you for the +8 strength for a round or the +4 all physical stats.

Words of power are sweet. I need to make a character with them.


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There were several mentions of preparing spells that make it look like you started out making a wizard or unified wiz/sorc guide and switched to sorcerer.


BuzzardB wrote:

Lock Ward + Enhance Form/Perfect form to make awesome buff "potions".

Think your melee characters will love you for the +8 strength for a round or the +4 all physical stats.

I was mostly just thinking that it would be a nice way to make nosy innkeepers regret messing about with a sleeping sorcerer. Adding buff words to lock ward feels too much like the old 3.5 beneficial magic trap abuse.


This looks super. In about 709 years, when I can finally play my Varisian Harrower Sorceress I want to do, I'll be looking to this guide. I'll give a more formal critique when I have the time to fully read it, but it looks great. Thanks for your effort!

EDIT: I do have a question. Why does it stop at 6th-level spells (12th level)? Is it primarily designed for PFS?


This is great. I've been waiting for a Words of Power guide for some time.


Thanks for all the comments so far!

Atarlost: Can you point me to a ruling? I'd be happy to change and correct the parts of the guide if that's the case about Wildblooded/Crossblooded. Also, yeah, it started out as a W.o.P. version of the God Wizard - I thought I had cleaned out all the parts where it applies to Wizards (preparing spells, etc) - can you point to me where I messed up?

VRMH/Buzzard: Okay, you got me. I might have to tweak that section of the guide, though it'll have to be with some big caveats (that GMs will likely put the hammer down on it.) For more info, see this original (unresolved) thread involving the lead designer: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2m8u1


ZanThrax wrote:
Adding buff words to lock ward feels too much like the old 3.5 beneficial magic trap abuse.

It is (and that bit of trickery exists in Pathfinder too, alas). However, with Words of Power you don't need to invent new "traps" to make the trick work - it's built right into the system.


The specific case of archetype incompatibility hasn't been ruled, but the general archetype rules prohibit multiple archetypes from modifying the same class feature and both modify the bloodline class ability.

Dark Archive

TheRedArmy wrote:

This looks super. In about 709 years, when I can finally play my Varisian Harrower Sorceress I want to do, I'll be looking to this guide. I'll give a more formal critique when I have the time to fully read it, but it looks great. Thanks for your effort!

EDIT: I do have a question. Why does it stop at 6th-level spells (12th level)? Is it primarily designed for PFS?

Considering the system isn't allowed in PFS, I doubt that's the intention.


thanks for the write up, it definitely helped me get a better grip on it all. i know this is the advice section, but i don't see a lot on words of power in the rules section, so i figured i'd post my question here as well.
can you, for instance, cast torture with the barrier target word? i feel as though you implied that you could. if so, how long does the barrier last? there's nothing in the description of the barrier target word that i could find regarding this. all i can figure is that we have to assume that it lasts as long as torture's effect would last, but that doesn't really make a ton of sense to me either, i mean it's not as though a burst of torture would be more than instantaneous, but an instantaneous barrier seems to kind of defeat the purpose (not that one couldn't still find uses for it).
any thoughts?
thanks in advance.


elgabalawi wrote:

thanks for the write up, it definitely helped me get a better grip on it all. i know this is the advice section, but i don't see a lot on words of power in the rules section, so i figured i'd post my question here as well.

can you, for instance, cast torture with the barrier target word? i feel as though you implied that you could. if so, how long does the barrier last? there's nothing in the description of the barrier target word that i could find regarding this. all i can figure is that we have to assume that it lasts as long as torture's effect would last, but that doesn't really make a ton of sense to me either, i mean it's not as though a burst of torture would be more than instantaneous, but an instantaneous barrier seems to kind of defeat the purpose (not that one couldn't still find uses for it).
any thoughts?
thanks in advance.

Looks to me as if it would last 1 round / level and anyone who walked into it would have to save or become nauseated and then resave at the end of their turn. Since it's visible, smart enemies probably won't go wandering through it all wily-nilly, but maybe if you add some concealment they won't notice it?


Mergy wrote:
TheRedArmy wrote:

This looks super. In about 709 years, when I can finally play my Varisian Harrower Sorceress I want to do, I'll be looking to this guide. I'll give a more formal critique when I have the time to fully read it, but it looks great. Thanks for your effort!

EDIT: I do have a question. Why does it stop at 6th-level spells (12th level)? Is it primarily designed for PFS?

Considering the system isn't allowed in PFS, I doubt that's the intention.

I didn't realize. Thanks. But now my original question is valid again. Why only go to level twelve?


Question, given a bloodline's bonus spells come as actual spells, not WOP words, why do you think that Human bonus spells become WOP words? As a player, I'd certainly take the bonus spells; there are some effects that are nearly impossible with WOP eg. Planar Binding, Limited Wish, Dimensional Anchor, Polymorph any Object...Not to mention some dominant save or Die effects (Suffocate, Icy Prison).

I'm surprised that you have rated Metaword Mastery Green - I would think blue. Using Boost is sooooo commmon, you need every use of metawords you can get. Also as a rules question, does a given spell count for more than one use of metawords. Eg does a Burst (boosted) Acid Wave (Mind Warp) count as 1 use of metawords or 2?

Summon Servitor 2 is blue - it will devastate fights with boost...1d4+1 blocks of hp and attacks (giant frog/Giant Spider/Hyena) turns outnumbered and outflanked around very effectively at 3ed level...

Regarding Unfetter, falling damage caps at 20d6.

I would encourage you to continue with the higher level words, and looking further into combinations.


pad300 wrote:

Question, given a bloodline's bonus spells come as actual spells, not WOP words, why do you think that Human bonus spells become WOP words? As a player, I'd certainly take the bonus spells; there are some effects that are nearly impossible with WOP eg. Planar Binding, Limited Wish, Dimensional Anchor, Polymorph any Object...Not to mention some dominant save or Die effects (Suffocate, Icy Prison).

I'm surprised that you have rated Metaword Mastery Green - I would think blue. Using Boost is sooooo commmon, you need every use of metawords you can get. Also as a rules question, does a given spell count for more than one use of metawords. Eg does a Burst (boosted) Acid Wave (Mind Warp) count as 1 use of metawords or 2?

Summon Servitor 2 is blue - it will devastate fights with boost...1d4+1 blocks of hp and attacks (giant frog/Giant Spider/Hyena) turns outnumbered and outflanked around very effectively at 3ed level...

Regarding Unfetter, falling damage caps at 20d6.

I would encourage you to continue with the higher level words, and looking further into combinations.

The reason the bloodline spells (and all those exceptions listed for the various classes in the W.o.P. section is pretty simple: there's no way of translating the bonus to the Words of Power system. Unless Paizo was going to try to go back to every single bloodline and say, okay, the Serpentine bloodline gets these effect words at these levels, they basically have to just let the sorcerer get those regular spells.

The reason I think the Words of Power translates to the favored class bonus is how the two texts interact:

From the W.o.P. section:
"These spellcasters begin play knowing a number of effect or meta words equal to the number indicated on their respective Spells Known tables. Whenever they gain a level in their respective classes or a level of spellcasting in those classes, they gain new effect or meta words based on the same table"

From the Alternate Favored Class bonus section:
"Add one spell known from the sorcerer spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the sorcerer can cast."

... basically, when a sorcerer gains spells, they gain them from the effect words.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to twist rules. If your GM rules the opposite, that the favored class bonus gives you regular spells, it is LOADS more powerful. Suddenly, you get the best of both worlds - the best effect words and the best regular spells. In fact, I think that'd be busted in half. Can you imagine? All the flexibility in those higher slots compared to getting the cream of the crop of the God Wizard spells?

-----

As for Servitor 2, I think you missed something. Putting "Boost" on the Selected word increases the level of all the effect words by 3. Servitor 2 to summon 1d4+1 creatures takes a fifth level slot (this is what I meant about Servitor not being suitable to summon multiple lower level summons - it's an extra level behind the regular version's 1d4+1 summon, and it even takes a meta word to use.)

----

I didn't know falling damage was capped at 20d6. Shoot, that makes the spell a lot less funny. Shoot, back to red territory that spell goes after all...


TheRedArmy wrote:
Mergy wrote:
TheRedArmy wrote:

This looks super. In about 709 years, when I can finally play my Varisian Harrower Sorceress I want to do, I'll be looking to this guide. I'll give a more formal critique when I have the time to fully read it, but it looks great. Thanks for your effort!

EDIT: I do have a question. Why does it stop at 6th-level spells (12th level)? Is it primarily designed for PFS?

Considering the system isn't allowed in PFS, I doubt that's the intention.
I didn't realize. Thanks. But now my original question is valid again. Why only go to level twelve?

Maybe I do need to go back and chart it out past the 6th level. I didn't do it original because I don't have as much experience as I should with the high level magic and the game changes quite a bit at those higher levels.

I'll take some time to think about it.


Also, as a follow up, assuming Human bonus spells come as spells, a look at what spells & words I would be considering

Words 9th : Control Time, Servitor IX, Dimensional Gate
Words 8th : Servitor VIII, Winter`s Wrath, Repulse
Words 7th : Servitor VII, Dimensional Shift Caustic Cloud
Words 6th : Servitor VI, Negation, Energy Immunity
Words 5th : Servitor V (retrain as Acid Wave), Stone Wall , Dimensional Jump, Crush Will (use Meta word Master to add Penetrating at 11th and Irresistible at 13th)
Words 4th : Servitor IV (retrain as Borrow Future), Beast Form, Unseen Shell, Ice Blast (use Metaword Mastery to add either Manifestation or Mind Warp at 9th ... and consider the other one early... like 3ed, just for more Boost uses)
Words 3ed : Servitor III (retrain as Dimension Hop), Torture, Complex Order, Glimmering (hard choices Far Sight and Undeath are both really strong)
Words 2ed : Servitor II (retrain as Sense Hidden), Accelerate, Frost Fingers, Disappear, Corrosive Bolt,
Words 1st : Friendship (retrain as meta Quiet), Wrack, Lock Ward, Fog Bank, Alignment Shield (the re-roll effect can be VERY useful at high levels) Dash (retrain as meta Careful)
Words 0th : Sense Magic, Decipher, Echo, Cramp, Lift, Flame Jet, Acid Burn, Distant, Lengthy

Spells 9th: Bloodline
Spells 8th: Bloodline, Polymorph Any Object, Greater Planar Binding, Moment of Prescience (or Mind Blank, Prediction of Failure, Trap The Soul, Create Demiplane ...)
Spells 7th: Bloodline, Limited Wish, Simalcrum or Magnificent Mansion
Spells 6th: Bloodline, Planar Binding (retrain as contingency), Greater Dispel Magic
Spells 5th: Bloodline,Lesser Planar Binding (retrain as Icy Prison), Suffocation (or Telekinesis or Overland Flight)
Spells 4th: Bloodline, Enervation, Dimensional Anchor
Spells 3ed: Bloodline, Magic Circle, Dispel Magic (retrain as Mirror Image; yes, staying alive is good!)
Spells 2ed: Bloodline, Rope Trick, False Life
Spells 1st: Bloodline, Color Spray (retrain as Feather Fall), Ear Piercing Scream (retrain as Anticipate Peril)
Spells 0th: Light, Prestigidation, Mending (yeah, its worth not getting 3 hp...)


KBrewer wrote:


As for Servitor 2, I think you missed something. Putting "Boost" on the Selected word increases the level of all the effect words by 3. Servitor 2 to summon 1d4+1 creatures takes a fifth level slot (this is what I meant about Servitor not being suitable to summon multiple lower level summons - it's an extra level behind the regular version's 1d4+1 summon, and it even takes a meta word to use.)

Well thats just terrible. One of the major good points about summoning is typically getting a bunch of lower level critters - brute combatants pretty much top out in Summon Monster VI with the Dire Tiger, for example... Not to mention summoning clusters of Bralanis for lightning bolt support, or Vulpinals for Healing (18d6 lay on hands per Vulpinal and SM 6 can get pretty damn close to a Heal!)


Thanks very very much for pointing me towards making a damn good necromancer. Taking the Experimental Spellcaster feat to get Undeath is extraordinarily nice; no material costs YES


pad300 wrote:
KBrewer wrote:


As for Servitor 2, I think you missed something. Putting "Boost" on the Selected word increases the level of all the effect words by 3. Servitor 2 to summon 1d4+1 creatures takes a fifth level slot (this is what I meant about Servitor not being suitable to summon multiple lower level summons - it's an extra level behind the regular version's 1d4+1 summon, and it even takes a meta word to use.)
Well thats just terrible. One of the major good points about summoning is typically getting a bunch of lower level critters - brute combatants pretty much top out in Summon Monster VI with the Dire Tiger, for example... Not to mention summoning clusters of Bralanis for lightning bolt support, or Vulpinals for Healing (18d6 lay on hands per Vulpinal and SM 6 can get pretty damn close to a Heal!)

Yeah, the "no multiples" bit does kind of suck, but I think it's peanuts compared to getting that standard action summon (the paranoid part in me wants the GM to have almost no opportunity to make me roll a concentration check.)

Plus, if you're playing in a campaign high-enough level where summoning multiples is a lot better than just 1-of the highest, you're probably pretty close to just using the Abyssal bloodline to destroy things.

(As a side note... are you thinking of 3.5 summoning? I didn't think Vulpinals were summonable in pathfinder.)


KBrewer wrote:
pad300 wrote:
KBrewer wrote:


As for Servitor 2, I think you missed something. Putting "Boost" on the Selected word increases the level of all the effect words by 3. Servitor 2 to summon 1d4+1 creatures takes a fifth level slot (this is what I meant about Servitor not being suitable to summon multiple lower level summons - it's an extra level behind the regular version's 1d4+1 summon, and it even takes a meta word to use.)
Well thats just terrible. One of the major good points about summoning is typically getting a bunch of lower level critters - brute combatants pretty much top out in Summon Monster VI with the Dire Tiger, for example... Not to mention summoning clusters of Bralanis for lightning bolt support, or Vulpinals for Healing (18d6 lay on hands per Vulpinal and SM 6 can get pretty damn close to a Heal!)

Yeah, the "no multiples" bit does kind of suck, but I think it's peanuts compared to getting that standard action summon (the paranoid part in me wants the GM to have almost no opportunity to make me roll a concentration check.)

Plus, if you're playing in a campaign high-enough level where summoning multiples is a lot better than just 1-of the highest, you're probably pretty close to just using the Abyssal bloodline to destroy things.

(As a side note... are you thinking of 3.5 summoning? I didn't think Vulpinals were summonable in pathfinder.)

Vulpinals are an alternate. Check out a pretty good guide here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iJ3uBI7QuRjwRQvLYuNBsdqNPxmM9ZZ2Jky4Zx2 ELTg/edit

One major thing he missed though was Inner Sea Magic, pg 20 - Summoning Specialization, which is just awesome...


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So I've read through the guide, and went back and took a closer look at Words of Power. My initial impression of the system was that it had a lot of potential, but suffered the same lack of support for new options that 3.5 was notorious for; I doubt Words of Power will see much of any additional content. That and the fact that you lose out on a lot of options when you give up normal casting made me brush it aside.

Now that I've given it a second look and thought about it, I like it. In fact, I feel that this is what should have been the basis of the spontaneous casters from the beginning. I like the raw feel to it, the way you can build and combine magic on the fly; the careful, structured spell formula of the vancian system definitely feels better suited for wizards and clerics.

Even with its shortcomings, or should I say especially because of its shortcomings, it has a nice, vibrant, colorful way about it. The only real downside to it is, as I mentioned earlier, the sad realization that Words of Power will more than likely see no support, no new words, no new feats or prestige classes that work with the system.


Sorry for necroing a thread like this, but this seems to be the thread to ask this question. Where does it say that wordcasting is a standard action? I was looking for it, but couldn't seem to find it. I ask because my DM may require proof or just treat servitor 3 like the normal summon monster 3 spell.

(I'm part way through a wizard and if the DM allows it, will pick up the experimental spell caster feat for servitor 3 and boost.)

Once again, sorry for the necro.


Third Mind wrote:
Where does it say that wordcasting is a standard action?

Here, under "Casting Wordspells".

"Wordspells take one standard action to cast and provoke attacks of opportunity as normal unless the caster casts the wordspell defensively."


not a clue, TM.


I'm always looking for good WoP threads, so maybe i should thank Third Mind for the necro.

That said, in the most sincere joy that text can muster, thank you, OP, for presenting WoP in a very simple, easy-to-understand manner. Your commandments are the best summary of how WoP differs from regular casting.

However, here's something I noticed; in your guide, you draw up a blasting spellword and give it this justification:

Quote:
BLASTING: Lightning Blast + Fire Blast. No, you don't get 2d6/level damage - the rules say that if you combine effect words that deal damage, you only get your level's worth of dice. Still, that means the damage cap for this spell is 20d6. Also, while you only have your level worth of damage dice, you get to pick which dice you want. So if you’re a level 13 sorcerer up against fire immune foes, you can take all 10 of the lightning dice and only add in 3 fire dice.

You got that from here, likely:

PRD wrote:
Multiple Effect Words and Damage: If more than one effect word causes the wordspell to deal damage, the total number of dice of damage the wordspell can deal can be no greater than the wordspell's caster level. The caster can decide which dice belong to which effect word, in any combination, so long as the total number does not exceed his wordcaster level and the number of dice allocated to a specific effect word does not exceed its maximum.

But there's also this:

PRD wrote:
A wordspell can have more than one effect word, even ones from different schools of magic. In this case, the spell counts as both schools of magic.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that mean your spell is Evocation [electricity, fire]? I can't find it, right now, but I remember reading that spells with multiple energy types are not actually divided in damage, and that for energy resistance to apply, the target has to have resist to all of the types in the spell (such that if I had fire immunity and electric resistance 10, I'll still take the damage, but apply the resist 10, as it's the lowest).

I believed the purpose of the rule in the WoP that you mentioned is to mean that when using, say Burning Flash with Lightning Blast, and you were trying to use the full 15 dice, unless Burning Flash was boosted, you would only have 10d6+5d4, instead of 15d6, but I'm struggling now, to find where I came to think that all of the damage would be electric AND fire. I am having trouble finding where this was printed, but I had it, a month ago, when the idea came to mind and i designed my own WoP sorceress. Its not detailed under Energy Resistance in the glossary, so I'm not sure.

Does anyone recall this rule, and where I might find it?


VRMH wrote:

Here, under "Casting Wordspells".

"Wordspells take one standard action to cast and provoke attacks of opportunity as normal unless the caster casts the wordspell defensively."

Wow... can't believe I missed that. I swear I remember using the word search function on the page. Of course that was the other website. In any case, thank you.

Edit: Nope just checked. I somehow completely missed it.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

Dot. I intend to read and critique tonight.


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Yes, a Fire Blast + Lightning Blastspell is Evocation [Fire, Electricty]. But take a look at immunity's definition:

Energy Immunity and Vulnerability
A creature with energy immunity never takes damage from that energy type. Vulnerability means the creature takes half again as much (+50%) damage as normal from that energy type, regardless of whether a saving throw is allowed or if the save is a success or failure.

The relevant bit is "damage from that energy type", not "damage from spells of that energy type. So even though the Spell is technically an Electricity spell, it can still deal fire damage to an Electric-Immune foe.

As for the dice?

Fire Blast and Lightning Blast both have caps at 10d6. The big thing is that you can't deal more than your level in terms of dice.

So if you're an 8th level caster, you'd get 8d6 fire dice and 8d6 electric dice... but you can only use 8 max. So you can do all fire, all electric, or any mix between the two.

If you're a 14th level caster, you get 10d6 fire dice and 10d6 electric dice, but you can only use 14 total. You can split it however you want - 10d6+4d6, 7d6+7d6, 4d6+10d6 - between fire and electric.

And if you're a 23rd level caster, you just get 10d6 fire + 10d6 electric.

Also, you might have been thinking of damage reduction:

If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation.

... aka, if you have DR 5/Magic, Cold Iron, the creature gets DR 5 against everything besides Cold Iron Magical weapons (cold iron alone won't bypass the DR.)


Looking at the servitor spells, I'm wondering if it'd be worth picking up as a regular caster through the experimental spellcaster feat. The reason being that apparently the boost ability to get 1d4+1 more of the creatures you summon, would increase the level of the word by 3. Seems hefty even for a standard summons.

If I ever make a necromancer, I may go a wordcaster though.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

Ok, and back with some review and critique action.

Intro and Commandments:
Good. I think these are solid. Only thing I would recommend is changing Shall to Shalt in each. If you're using 'thou,' it would make sense to properly conjugate the verb.

Feats/Bloodlines/Race:
No substantive disagreements.

Spells:
Cold Snap / Acid Burn / Flame Jet: You missed the critical text of these cantrips:

Quote:
If the wordspell with this effect word has only a single target, it requires a melee or ranged touch attack to hit and does not allow a saving throw.

The word "it" in the second clause refers to the wordspell, not the effect word. You can pair these with "please don't fail" spells and roll a touch attack instead of allowing the target to save. Not always great, but since this text is missing from the other blasts, it can also be good to tack one on to a blast if you plan to single target it.

Lock Ward: This is the single best Effect Word in the entire system. It is a feat-equivalent with benefits (Brew Potion+, if you will). Cast buff spells on your allies' combat potions. Uncork, trigger spell, drink, trigger potion. Prepare lockets with buffs. Explosive Runes, but sillier. We love WoP for the action economy. Lock Ward does that, plus it gives you something to do with your left-over spell slots. It has unparalleled utility.

Corrosive Bolt: I'm not sure what you have against a spell that, with the Lengthy Metaword, is 20d4 Acid damage split over 4 rounds at 5th level or 40d4 if you get Intensify. No save, no SR, and it can crit. Plays well with blasting bloodlines.

5th level blasting and up: Ice Blast + Frost Fingers is invalid. Both are Cold Words.

No other obvious issues. Your spell selection is solid besides the above.

Builds:
Friona has an invalid archetype mix (Crossblooded/Wildblooded is invalid).

I think it's a good guide. These are just my recommendations.


Another issue: Combining Charm Person with Protection from evil suppresses the charm...

Why did you just suggest that?


@KBrewer,
You know, I could almost swear I read an example with Immunity to one element and Resist 10 to another, but I can't find it anywhere, and with what's written under Resist and Immunities, that interpretation makes sense. Oh well, slight change of plans, now, but still pretty much in-line with my idea.


Starbuck_II wrote:

Another issue: Combining Charm Person with Protection from evil suppresses the charm...

Why did you just suggest that?

Did you suggest I play an evil character? ;-)

You only get the reroll if you're being controlled by an evil object/person/etc. It's the case for both Protection from Evil and Alignment Shield Against Evil. Protection from Evil is nasty, because it's easy to miss the line, because it's after a number of sentences describing what it does, tacked on at the end: "This second effect only functions against spells and effects created by evil creatures or objects, subject to GM discretion."


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Serisan wrote:
Crossblooded/Wildblooded is invalid

Has there ever been an actual ruling on this? I've seen it argued both ways.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
ZanThrax wrote:
Serisan wrote:
Crossblooded/Wildblooded is invalid
Has there ever been an actual ruling on this? I've seen it argued both ways.

A crossblooded sorcerer selects two different bloodlines. The sorcerer may gain access to the skills, feats, and some of the powers of both bloodlines she is descended from, but at the cost of reduced mental clarity and choice (see Drawbacks).

When creating a wildblooded sorcerer, select an existing bloodline, then select one of the following mutated bloodlines associated with that bloodline.

Going from this, it appears plain that when you pick a wildblooded line such as Primal, you are also (and primarily) considered an Elemental Bloodline Sorcerer, which has then mutated into a sub-bloodline. To Crossbleed (I anglicized) the Elemental bloodline, or any mutation of it with any other wildblood derivations of the Elemental bloodline wouldn't work, since the heritage is Elemental/Elemental, but I don't see why you can't be a Primal/Abyssal crossblood, since as far as Crossblooded rules go, you're Elemental/Abyssal, and then you may choose to be of a mutated Elemental and/or Abyssal bloodline, after that.

The other factor is that Wildblood and Crossblood are both sorcerer archtypes. According to Archtype rules, you can combine them, as long they don't both replace similar things, since that messes with requirements ("Characters may take more than one archetype as long as they meet the requirements.", PRD), and technically speaking, they do. If anything, Wildblood requires the base bloodline to switch out bloodline arcana and certain bloodline powers, but Crossblood only requires that there are bloodline arcanas and powers, such that you can pick from the two you mixed, so that satisfies the conditions, legitimately, IMO.


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Am now working on a revision to the document, incorporating things people have suggested.

I needed to reply to Serisan, though, about the Corrosive Bolt. I firmly believe the PRD is typoed. Look at these two Words:

CORROSIVE BOLT (ACID)
School conjuration (creation) [acid]; Level magus 2, sorcerer/wizard 2
Duration 1 round/level (see text)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
Target Restrictions selected
A wordspell with this effect word deals 1d4 points of acid damage per level of the wordcaster (maximum 5d4). On the following round, the target takes this damage again. Hitting a target with a wordspell with this effect word requires a ranged touch attack.

ACID WAVE (ACID)
School conjuration (creation) [acid]; Level magus 4, sorcerer/wizard 4
Duration 2 rounds
Saving Throw Reflex half and partial (see below); Spell Resistance no
A wordspell with this effect word deals 1d6 points of acid damage per caster level (maximum 10d6). Targets damaged by this effect word are sickened for 1 round per caster level, or 1 round if the saving throw against the wordspell with this effect word was successful.

Corrosive Bolt says it has a Duration of round/level, but look at the text: "On the following round, the target takes this damage again." Not "The target takes this damage each subsequent round".

Now look at Acid Wave. It has a Duration of 2 Rounds... but the text describes immediate damage... followed by an effect that lasts round/level.

They mixed up the durations of the two spells. Trust me, I wrote the first draft of the guide with Corrosive Bolt coded as neon blue - not merely for damage, but because it's a low level conjuration blast that has a duration (which means you could cast Wrack + Corrosive Bolt!)... only to run into the realization that they mixed up the durations.


Wow Paizo, wow.


The printed book (Ultimate Magic, page 167-168) gives the duration of both of those spells as 2 rounds. So there is indeed a typo in the PRD for corrosive bolt, as well as a slight error in the book for acid wave, as there the duration doesn't match the text.

Very nice guide, by the way. I'd never seen it before, but it really makes me interested in playing one of these.


Yeah but 2 rounds is plenty of time for an intensified corrosive bolt to be meta-word extended, and if feeling silly, become Dazing. (save every round or be dazed for a couple of rounds, daze duration overlaps rather than stacks, but still) And remember, ignores SR.

Is it just me being blind or did you leave out the 4th level effect word Terror from your table?

Speaking of terror, this combination is by no means optimal but a word spell I had fun with was boosted simple order (allowing any target word to be used) + terror, make everyone in the area save or drop their weapons and flee. Admittedly a 6th level spell, but essentially causes Panic, and if you happen to be a kitsune sorcerer... =D

*Edit*

Meant to say though, excellent work! Very enjoyable guide, really looking forward to seeing what you come up with for the cleric/oracle list, I know when I looked at their words I was a lot less impressed than with the sorcerer list.


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All right! I've finished up the revision of the document. Among the changes:

- Lock Ward was reevaluated and expanded upon.
- Wizard-like references were purged
- 7th-9th level wordspells were added
- Additional lower level combinations were added (especially the 6th level section, which had multiple potent control spells I missed)
- Fixed Unfetter's falling damage
- Added Terror (I had a combo or two with it, but was missing the lone word)
- Reevaluated Corrosive Bolt for blasters
- Fixed Frost Fingers + Ice Blast references (invalid: both are cold words)

Anyway, I wanted to thank everyone that commented. I'm now working on the third chapter of Brewer's GM Guide.


I'm happy to see that this guide continues to get attention. I'm going to give it another look. Perhaps it will help me decide what my next character will be, seeing as my last just died...


One issue I've always had with the undeath word is how to handle variant undead. The word doesn't specify, and the actual rules on variant undead are unhelpful.


HAve to admit this has been my favorite of your guides so far. I'd very much like a similar follow up to the oracle or perhaps cleric/druid.

AFter reading this I've taken it upon myself to actually learn how the system works.


There's one thing that leave me perplexed: inspired by this guide I went and read the full rules, both on the UC manual and on the srd... but I did not see where it does say that the Boost Meta word does increase the total level of a Servitor spell by 3.

The Boost meta word does say that

Quote:
Some boosted descriptions increase the level of the effect word or target word, and can only be used if the wordspell is of a high enough level to accommodate the new level.

But in the Servitor effect word does say simply, if I'm not being blind

Quote:
If the target word is boosted, a wordspell with this effect word summons 1d4+1 of the chosen creatures.

As a counterexample, reading another effect like Altered Form, the level increase is obvious

Quote:
This wordspell can use the Selected target word. Boosting this effect word increases its level by 1.

Am i missing something?


If you boost the Selected target word (the only valid target for Servitor words), the effects of all words in the spell are increased by three.

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