CEO, Goblinworks
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OK, I got a Cleric to Level 8.
Like the Fighter build posted elsewhere, the purpose of this build is not to make a necessarily "fun" character, just to get one to Level 8 as quickly as possible.
I will note that there appears to be a bug in that the system is not enforcing the 11 Constitution gate for the 8th level Role achievement for Cleric. We'll look into that.
That's a good thing because right now, using just the Dreadnaught, Temple and Seminary, you can't get 1 point of Constitution. I've mentioned that to Lee and we'll talk about it internally.
A new build will likely be deployed this week which may fix that bug, and thus make this build fail. :( Don't know the exact status of that at this point. My guess is that if you have reached the 8th level Role achievement and the Con gate is reimposed, you'll keep it, but I am not sure about that either.
What I Did
As in the Fighter build, I used Dev commands to give myself a huge amount of XP. That was the only Dev command I used - everything else this character achieved was done by me playing just like you would play.
I purchased Pot Steel armor from the Auction House in Marchmont, but ended up with several sets of Heavy Armor shortly after, so it was a unnecessary purchase. I did not use Dev commands to create any items.
Killing Things
Clerics get Divine Achievement Points by killing things with their Focus, and by killing Skeletons, Ghouls and Cultists. Nobody in the office was sure if all Razimirans counted as Cultists and I didn't bother to try and independently confirm that, and I've never seen a Ghoul. :)
So I killed a lot of Goblins and Skeletons.
It took perhaps a total of 7 hours to do all the killin'. I say "perhaps" because I lost two to three hours of kills in the crash last night and had to re-earn them this morning and that put me in a foul mood and I didn't bother to precisely calculate how much time I had to re-do.
I did the Tutorial, and slotted the Tutorial Feats.
At Level 2, I trained Touch of Darkness 1, and slotted it with the free Focus you get from the NPC next to the Temple trainer.
I then started killing Tutorial Goblins (the Goblins right outside the starting NPC Settlements) to generate Divine points via Focus Expert.
The Cleric trains Focus Weapon Proficiency, Power, Hit Points, Divine Attack Bonus, Willpower Bonus, Base Attack Bonus, and Fortitude Bonus as its Role Feats. I trained these as fast as my Divine points would allow.
After reaching Cleric 4, I trained Heavy Armor Proficiency, Crusader and the Glory Domain, and equipped Pot Steel Plate. I slotted Glory and Crusader. (I was tired of dying and wanted to speed up how fast I could kill goblins).
I killed 250 Goblins to enable me to train all Feats up to Power 10.
That gave me 15 points of Divine.
I trained Hit Points 5 out of sequence because I wanted more Hit Points.
From the middle of Cleric 4, after getting Power 10, I switched to killing Skeletons. There are several active Skeleton escalations running, and I found one and killed most Skeletons there solo. Killing 20 Skeletons allowed me to get 3 points of Divine so I could clear the Cleric 5 gate.
At this time I trained Destructive Smite 1 and Holy Lance 1 because Touch of Darkness does Negative Energy damage and the Skeletons are immune to that. I never actually slotted or used Destructive Smite and killed all the Skeletons with Holy Lance.
I killed up to 50 Skeletons to get the 6 points of Divine I needed to train the Feats for Cleric 6.
I then killed up to 100 Skeletons. Lisa joined me for the end of the Skeleton hunt and helped me dispatch the final 22 Skeletons, mostly by taking on the Red and Yellow skeletons in the escalation mobs with her uber character of uberness. I could have finished this solo, it would have just taken me another hour or so of careful target selection and I wanted to go to lunch.
I trained the rest of the basic Cleric Role Feats to the max of my Divine points, then I started training Orisons. There are 23 Orisons (there should be 24, but we found one that had been omitted from the Trainers - so that's 1 Bug for Ryan!)
I trained them to Level 3 to generate Wisdom. At some point in this process I qualified for Cleric 7. I actually ended up with 12 points of Wisdom so I could have trained fewer of them to 3rd level and saved some XP. The 3rd rank of the Orisons are 1,881 XP each, so training fewer of them would have substantially cut the time required for this build. I think, but am not exactly sure, that I overspent by 9,405 XP (there are some short-term discrepancies between my spreadsheet data and the live game data, but they're close).
I then went out and started killing anything that moved. I killed a total of 500 enemies (Goblins and Skeletons included) to get Focus Expert 6, which gave me enough Divine points to train Power 16 and receive Cleric 8.
Final Stats:
Hit Points: 645
Wisdom 12
XP: 98,395 (40.99 days - would have been 33.9 days if I'd skipped all Orisons to level 3)
Feats
Base Attack Bonus 3
Divine Attack Bonus 4
Fortitude Bonus 4
Hit Points 7
Power 16
Willpower Bonus 4
All Orisons at Level 3
496 copper (less 100 copper for Pot Steel armor purchased in Auction House)
Loot of Note:
17 recipes including seven +1 and one +2.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Very nice! I just hit Focus 8 tonight so I'm right there with you on the divine machine. 1200 kills in 4 hours!
I didn't know the Con 11 wasn't needed because of the bug otherwise I would have qualified for Cleric 7 earlier. I still need more training to qualify for 8. Can you confirm that you meant the gate is Con 12 for 8? I am seeing Con 11 for 7 still and Con 12 for 8.
It would be nice to have an alternate build with just Seminary and Temple someday.
Now can someone else please try rogue and wizard? I suspect without the alternative Divine achievements it's going to take more than 7 hours. Maybe someone other than you Ryan, you're going to burn out! :)
Thanks again!
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Lisa joined me...with her uber character of uberness.So...you've just let Lisa play herself in-game, then, eh? :-D
Thank you very much for these write-ups, Ryan. Pleasepleaseplease, do the other two Roles as well, when you find the time and patience!
It goes better all around when nobody stands in the way of Lisa getting what Lisa wants. I can see a few things that are probably there because Lisa said so, like Goblin Bombers hurting other goblins enough to draw aggro.
At least, if that wasn't intentional, it's a feature now.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Now can someone else please try rogue and wizard? I suspect without the alternative Divine achievements it's going to take more than 7 hours. Maybe someone other than you Ryan, you're going to burn out! :)
Thanks again!
Rogue has both shortsword and shortbow as separate achievement tracks plus quite a few quests now for things like defusing chain breaker bombs.
Wizard is a little harder. Wand and staff need to be made separate achievement tracks.
It is worth noting that training all orisons to 3 in Ryan's build gets him the ability 12 he needs to level but at some stage he would need to track down a better battle/elemental/occult focus weapon if he wanted to make use of those levels.
QUESTION @ Ryan - if training orisons increases abilities does learning level 1/2/3 implement spells also increase ability ? If not could it be implemented.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A dev command is one of a special set of commands usable on developer accounts only. Make gear instantly, gain tons of xp in a second, etc. Their purpose is to speed up testing. We should never have access to them as that would be gamebreaking.
That's a good thing because right now, using just the Dreadnaught, Temple and Seminary, you can't get 1 point of Constitution. I've mentioned that to Lee and we'll talk about it internally.
You did not train Great Fortitude or Toughness to level 2, then? Those are both with the same trainer as the Fortitude you would have needed. They are generic (all roles) feats that would have bumped Con another .198 points.
All three of the Cleric Armors also boost Con, but it looks like you skipped them for this build.
Also, thank you for doing this. Its good to see the CEO digging in and getting a taste of his own game :) Edit: But not the crash part. I wouldn't wish that on anybody.
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Wizard achievements are actually really easy. Here's a hint: get a staff and slot wraith's cry, then just run into the middle of level 1 mobs and hit the "I Win" button (that will be the number 4) ;) I got to Arcane 5 Plus some lickety split tonight doing that. At one point I killed about 15 level 1 mobs with one shot after grouping them together around me. Honestly, Arcane is the fastest of the lot to earn Achievements in for that very reason.
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Goblin Squad Member
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looking forward to see someone trying the same with rogues. The subterfuge needed for level8 stealth is more than can be granted by weapon kills, and soloing subterfuge escalations is going to take time.
(Unless you can get a group to do the killing for you, possibly the fastest way is to equip a staff and AoE your way through the escalation. pure solo rogue i predict will be much slower than the other classes).
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Goblin Squad Member
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SO MUCH GRIND, THIS GAME IS DOOMED, OH MY LORD, SCAM
All jokes aside, thanks very much for the breakdown Ryan - it was illuminating.
You laugh. Looking at the xp, Ryan's Cleric character would have taken 41 days to get to level 8. He had to grind for about 7 hours to get to that point. So doing the math, 7 hours/41 days = .17 hours/day. Almost 11 minutes a day spent on character advancement! :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Honestly, Arcane is the fastest of the lot to earn Achievements in for that very reason.
It CAN be the fastest with one particular cantrip. How many hours does it take to kill 2500 mobs with that cantrip? Do you really think that should be the only method to play a wizard? How many hours should the average playstyle take?
I achieved Focus 8 using nothing but lightning arc. Doing absolutely nothing else I killed 300 starter goblins every hour for 4 hours last night. The first 1250 took three weeks slowly playing, though the night the starter goblins were first introduced I went to town killing about 500. I'd say it's possible, as in 'mimimum viable fun', to get the 2500 achievement for Focus in eight hours of grinding. Yes, grinding as an option. It's there...and I liked it...and it's over for now. I'm guessing the same thing 'could' be done for wizards.
I didn't train in any other orisons and boosted my wisdom with knowledge skills instead. Are these going to be useful soon? I mean they were useful because the points spent to raise wisdom were MUCH cheaper than orisons, but what will religion or dungeoneering eventually do?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Training all available Con Feats got me to a bit under .6 of a point. I didn't put it in the write up because it doesn't get to 1 full point and would have been confusing.
Can we just remove the Con requirement altogether then?
Can you confirm that you need Con 12 for Role 8, not 11?
A new build will likely be deployed this week which may fix that bug, and thus make this build fail. :( Don't know the exact status of that at this point. My guess is that if you have reached the 8th level Role achievement and the Con gate is reimposed, you'll keep it, but I am not sure about that either.
I don't think we can keep it even if it's reimposed if it's Con 12 and not 11.
You sid it woul be confusing to writeup your con feats but can you post them anyway? I think if you factor in Con 12 the training time required is going to look more like 60 days to role level 8 versus your fighter build of 30.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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You laugh. Looking at the xp, Ryan's Cleric character would have taken 41 days to get to level 8. He had to grind for about 7 hours to get to that point. So doing the math, 7 hours/41 days = .17 hours/day. Almost 11 minutes a day spent on character advancement! :)
So, what you mean is that the system is completely useless, since I can perfectly sit on my account for two years and, with Ryan's rythm of 7h/day, get it up to date in two weeks.
Can you remind me the point of the achievement system ? Forcing the player to play on a regular basis, and making it impossible to sell an account.
Hmmhmm.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've played both Cleric and Wizard in Alpha. I found the Cleric to definitely be a bit slower and the leveling process a bit more enigmatic; The Wizard seemed much more straight forward.
How far did you get? I played a wizard until role 6. I'd like to play one in EE. My cleric has all my points though after the Alpha 9 change so unless I can get another account I can't try it now.
If I buy a second EE from the goblinworks site do I get another Alpha account immediately? Are new players being added to the stress test every day as new accounts are purchased?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Can you remind me the point of the achievement system ?
It rewards a reasonable amount of gameplay.
I think for the intended audiance players would not consider playing 7 hours a day for two weeks straight 'reasonable', but spread out as you say over two years it's perfectly acceptable.
You're also assuming the time will increase linearly and you're probably wrong there. Consider that in two years the political landscape may make it incredibly difficult for a previously parked character with to solo high level content at the same rate. Even in this build Ryan used help to get the elite achievements.
This was just a demo of average play required for the first few months for one particular cleric build achievements using the Alpha 9 rules. I don't think it has a great deal of value for conclusions beyond that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If I buy a second EE from the goblinworks site do I get another Alpha account immediately? Are new players being added to the stress test every day as new accounts are purchased?
Not to kibosh a Goblinworks sale, but you might try to get one of the Alpha invites instead. Some people have said they have lots of spares, so you're not preventing anyone else from playing.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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It rewards a reasonable amount of gameplay.
I think for the intended audiance players would not consider playing 7 hours a day for two weeks straight 'reasonable', but spread out as you say over two years it's perfectly acceptable.
You're also assuming the time will increase linearly and you're probably wrong there. Consider that in two years the political landscape may make it incredibly difficult for a previously parked character with no help may not be able to solo high level content at the same rate.
This was just a demo of average play required for the first few months for one particular cleric build achievements using the Alpha 9 rules. I don't think it has a great deal of value for conclusions beyond that.
Well, I'm not the one saying "ololol no grind", you know.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've played both Cleric and Wizard in Alpha. I found the Cleric to definitely be a bit slower and the leveling process a bit more enigmatic; The Wizard seemed much more straight forward.How far did you get? I played a wizard until role 6. I'd like to play one in EE. My cleric has all my points though after the Alpha 9 change so unless I can get another account I can't try it now.
If I buy a second EE from the goblinworks site do I get another Alpha account immediately? Are new players being added to the stress test every day as new accounts are purchased?
I will throw you an alpha invite, just pm me your email.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not to kibosh a Goblinworks sale, but you might try to get one of the Alpha invites instead. Some people have said they have lots of spares, so you're not preventing anyone else from playing.
Thanks! I intend to buy another account for EE anyway in the upcoming weeks so it would be nice to know if I'd get an Alpha along with it now that the stress test weekend is 'over'.
If anyone DOES have a spare account please send it my way. My wife and kids would appreciate having their own. I already gave the two I received to my tabletop group and neither of them received any invites yet.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You laugh. Looking at the xp, Ryan's Cleric character would have taken 41 days to get to level 8. He had to grind for about 7 hours to get to that point. So doing the math, 7 hours/41 days = .17 hours/day. Almost 11 minutes a day spent on character advancement! :)
So, what you mean is that the system is completely useless, since I can perfectly sit on my account for two years and, with Ryan's rythm of 7h/day, get it up to date in two weeks.
Can you remind me the point of the achievement system ? Forcing the player to play on a regular basis, and making it impossible to sell an account.
Hmmhmm.
Dont forget, it is within the plan for PFO that you can sell accounts. Ryan said as much, he just wants a cut of the sale.
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CEO, Goblinworks
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The amount of time required to clear an achievement gate increases like a hockey stick. So does the amount of XP required to learn higher ranks of Feats.
These tests show that you can make a reasonably trained character with a month or so of game time, and a reasonable amount of game play during that time. My opinion is that average gamers would not see the time they spent playing the game in that manner as "a grind".
But those are not the characters people will sell. Anyone can make those characters so they'll have a low value. The valuable characters will be the 1-year plus characters. Those are the characters that will be getting into the upper reaches of the game mechanic. To reach those upper reaches will require a reasonable amount of game play, but "reasonable" for a year old plus character is not going to be a Saturday afternoon. To clear a gating system reasonable, but meaningful, to the depth of XP those characters will have without effort would be very poor design.
The average people who actually play one year old plus characters will not feel those gates are grinds in the same way they don't feel the earlier gates are grinds. But someone who wants to purchase an untrained one year old plus character and get the advantages of a year of banked XP will not be able to quickly deploy that character into a war zone as a shock trooper, capture a degraded logistics chain, or assume a mechanical leadership position in a large Settlement, and that will make those characters less valuable to speculators.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The amount of time required to clear an achievement gate increases like a hockey stick. So does the amount of XP required to learn higher ranks of Feats.
These tests show that you can make a reasonably trained character with a month or so of game time, and a reasonable amount of game play during that time. My opinion is that average gamers would not see the time they spent playing the game in that manner as "a grind".
But those are not the characters people will sell. Anyone can make those characters so they'll have a low value. The valuable characters will be the 1-year plus characters. Those are the characters that will be getting into the upper reaches of the game mechanic. To reach those upper reaches will require a reasonable amount of game play, but "reasonable" for a year old plus character is not going to be a Saturday afternoon. To clear a gating system reasonable, but meaningful, to the depth of XP those characters will have without effort would be very poor design.
The average people who actually play one year old plus characters will not feel those gates are grinds in the same way they don't feel the earlier gates are grinds. But someone who wants to purchase an untrained one year old plus character and get the advantages of a year of banked XP will not be able to quickly deploy that character into a war zone as a shock trooper, capture a degraded logistics chain, or assume a mechanical leadership position in a large Settlement, and that will make those characters less valuable to speculators.
I actually do agree at this point. I probably have enough on one character to get a years worth of xp training without grinding any more.
Though, what I have been grinding for is recipes and etc. While doing that I ended up with a martial achievement at level 8. With that said, it was not my intention to do that in this game... I feel as though I have no choice but to grind for those recipes. But that is my choice.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...what I have been grinding for is recipes and etc.
Once the rest of Aragon joins you in the game "when it counts", I'll not be surprised if the combined efforts of all of you provide a healthy number of recipes, and likely some etc. as well. It feels as if many people, in Alpha, are put off by how hard it is to accomplish things in small groups, but in EE we'll have our larger groups of friends, and mutual support.
CEO
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It goes better all around when nobody stands in the way of Lisa getting what Lisa wants.
I have to admit, I have cheated rather liberally during Alpha using Dev commands. I gave myself some nice armor and nice weapons, along with a buttload of XP. I still had to hit the achievements like anybody else. But I wanted to know what it feels like to play a higher level character. Once EE starts, I am back to square one with no Dev commands to help me. Perhaps I should start figuring out what I am going to do then? :)
I can see a few things that are probably there because Lisa said so, like Goblin Bombers hurting other goblins enough to draw aggro.
At least, if that wasn't intentional, it's a feature now.
Nope, that wasn't me, though I LOVE the fact that goblins keep doing damage to themselves.
One of my favorite things I did was go into God Mode and walk into a huge encampment of goblins and ogres. I then just moved around and let the goblin shamans kill every other creature in the camp without me having to swing a single sword. Just make sure your target is between you and the shaman. :) Of course, without God Mode, I would have been toast in seconds, but it was fun to see nonetheless!
-Lisa
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Goblin Squad Member
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...what I have been grinding for is recipes and etc.Once the rest of Aragon joins you in the game "when it counts", I'll not be surprised if the combined efforts of all of you provide a healthy number of recipes, and likely some etc. as well. It feels as if many people, in Alpha, are put off by how hard it is to accomplish things in small groups, but in EE we'll have our larger groups of friends, and mutual support.
A good hand full of them are either doing the same thing, or helping me out. Most of us just did not want to do that. We will not have much of a choice with our play style though.
As a side note, my opinion is that everyone should be in Alpha. Because "when it counts" is when you should be doing what you know you should and not guessing at it. Some people do not agree and thats fine, I will just give them advice.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It goes better all around when nobody stands in the way of Lisa getting what Lisa wants.I have to admit, I have cheated rather liberally during Alpha using Dev commands. I gave myself some nice armor and nice weapons, along with a buttload of XP. I still had to hit the achievements like anybody else. But I wanted to know what it feels like to play a higher level character. Once EE starts, I am back to square one with no Dev commands to help me. Perhaps I should start figuring out what I am going to do then? :)
I can see a few things that are probably there because Lisa said so, like Goblin Bombers hurting other goblins enough to draw aggro.
At least, if that wasn't intentional, it's a feature now.
Nope, that wasn't me, though I LOVE the fact that goblins keep doing damage to themselves.
One of my favorite things I did was go into God Mode and walk into a huge encampment of goblins and ogres. I then just moved around and let the goblin shamans kill every other creature in the camp without me having to swing a single sword. Just make sure your target is between you and the shaman. :) Of course, without God Mode, I would have been toast in seconds, but it was fun to see nonetheless!
-Lisa
That is hilarious. What armor did you give yourself?
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Goblin Squad Member
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...my opinion is that everyone should be in Alpha. Because "when it counts" is when you should be doing what you know you should and not guessing at it.
I have trouble thinking a recipe that dropped for me last night, that someone can use for a few weeks, is of much value compared to the one that drops Day One of EE, that someone'll be using "forever". I prefer noodling around with different loadouts, whacking a few monsters, and then changing, to get used to the "feel" of things.
I've been changing my mind on my character's preferred Role(s) pretty routinely since I arrived in May of 2012, and especially since I got regularly involved a year later. Playing Alpha has, so far, led me to few conclusions, which is both quite good and quite annoying :-).
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Goblin Squad Member
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...my opinion is that everyone should be in Alpha. Because "when it counts" is when you should be doing what you know you should and not guessing at it.I have trouble thinking a recipe that dropped for me last night, that someone can use for a few weeks, is of much value compared to the one that drops Day One of EE, that someone'll be using "forever". I prefer noodling around with different loadouts, whacking a few monsters, and then changing, to get used to the "feel" of things.
I've been changing my mind on my character's preferred Role(s) pretty routinely since I arrived in May of 2012, and especially since I got regularly involved a year later. Playing Alpha has, so far, led me to few conclusions, which is both quite good and quite annoying :-).
Never know what you are going to get over time for drops.
I have been changing my opinion on what I am playing as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Never know what you are going to get over time for drops.
Oh, you're absolutely right; I singled out recipes only because you'd used them as a specific example earlier. I'm having equal trouble caring about any drop, and the crafting materials I've been gathering have been clustered heavily in the low end, so I've been in no great rush to hand them off to those testers, either.
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CEO
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That is hilarious. What armor did you give yourself?
Well, don't expect the perfect armor. I am not a min/maxer and frankly probably don't have the right armor. I picked the Ornate Steel Plate because I like the way it looks. And I am going for a fighter build augmented with Longbow, so it works for me. Oh, and the Ornate Steel Plate is +5. Just because. :)
-Lisa
So you're on your way to your favourite character: Amiri!
Well, that have to build in the mechanics for a Large sized greatsword first ;)
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CEO
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So you're on your way to your favourite character: Amiri!
I WISH I could have Amiri. Someday perhaps. But those are art assets that we can't use elsewhere, so only when PFO is rolling in the dough might I get a chance to have Amiri done so I can run around and help people out!
-Lisa
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Ryan
I get why you put up these gates and I understand the reasons behind it.
But if a player can pass the gates on a 1 year xp character in 2 weeks of heavy play, AND you know high xp accounts are going to be sold, AND you are ok with them being sold, AND at one point you'll have a way to facilitate trading them (for a cut to GW I hope). Why on Earth are they even there? to drive down the value?
You are cutting your own throat here for no real gain. You lose the people that want to pay but have a higher idea of MVP than GW does. You lose (some) of the speculators that want to pay your bills while you develop the game. If you do succeed in driving down the the value of the 1 year old accounts you just lost your cut of that sale(if the account transfer infrastructure is in at that point).
Really Ryan this make no business sense, and you gain almost nothing from an in game mechanical sense. If there are other reasons for gates I would live to hear them. It seems to me there has to be other reasons than you state because the ones I have been hearing don't really hold water.
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CEO, Goblinworks
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I can confirm that the tooltip saying you need Con 11 for Cleric 7 and Con 12 for Cleric 8 are incorrect. You will not have a Con gate at least for the first 8 levels of Cleric.
The team is doing some major overhauls of how ability score points are issued related to Feats at lower levels but we checked to be sure this should not change.
So the build I posted yesterday will work.
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CEO, Goblinworks
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@FirstOfOne:
2 weeks of heavy play (whatever that means) limits your ability to buy a character with a lot of unspent XP, and deploy it quickly into a fluid situation. It substantially limits your ability to "buy win".
If you don't see why limiting that potential is "good business sense", I don't really have a foundation to even have a conversation about the system.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Can you imagine the screaming if, in the middle of a hotly-contested siege, a well-heeled player suddenly appeared with several characters tailored to exploit his enemies' weaknesses? We've had quite a few accusations of various flavours of "pay to win" already thrown around here; I'd like not to see any more.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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@FirstOfOne:
2 weeks of heavy play (whatever that means) limits your ability to buy a character with a lot of unspent XP, and deploy it quickly into a fluid situation. It substantially limits your ability to "buy win".
If you don't see why limiting that potential is "good business sense", I don't really have a foundation to even have a conversation about the system.
I failure to understand why do you think that the seller won't just take care of the achievements before selling it.
Can you imagine the screaming if, in the middle of a hotly-contested siege, a well-heeled player suddenly appeared with several characters tailored to exploit his enemies' weaknesses? We've had quite a few accusations of various flavours of "pay to win" already thrown around here; I'd like not to see any more.
Well, said player would be stupid. It would be cheaper and easier to buy 15 goblin balls and throw each and every one of the mercenary companies in the game against his adversary.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I failure to understand why do you think that the seller won't just take care of the achievements before selling it.
There will be at least some sellers who aren't willing--or are unable, for whatever reason--to do so. Even where one prefers a road-block, speed-bumps can have some effect.
It would be cheaper and easier to buy 15 goblin balls and throw each and every one of the mercenary companies in the game against his adversary.
It's important to control the sources of pay-to-win that one can. This type can't be controlled, as any intervention-method Goblinworks tried would simply push this scenario to PayPal or other direct bank-to-bank transfers completely outside the game; one can always give another player money directly.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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It's important to control the sources of pay-to-win that one can. This type can't be controlled, as any intervention-method Goblinworks tried would simply push this scenario to PayPal or other direct bank-to-bank transfers completely outside the game; one can always give another player money directly.
Doesn't change the fact that it's cheaper and easier than buying 5 characters specifically tailored for a one-time situation.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It would be cheaper and easier to buy 15 goblin balls and throw each and every one of the mercenary companies in the game against his adversary.
I agree that getting coin through selling training tokens would likely be more effective than trying to gain an advantage with blank slate characters. I've not sure how much those tokens will sell for in game, especially when 15 are dropped on the market all at once.
15 training tokens @ $15(?) = $225. Say 4 companies, with average of 30 members = 120 mercenaries. $1.90/mercenary fuels how many hours of warfare? These mercenaries - will they fight for such a pittance? Though I guess any reason to fight is a good reason.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I'm obviously saying a random number.
A 2 years character would be, in my own personal subjective estimation, around 600$. Jazz talks about buying "several" character. Let's underestimate "several", and say he meant "3". 1800$ for one battle ? I'm quite serious that I can hire a lot of mercenaries for a quarter of that.
Bluddwolf, an opinion ?