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Beware of elven bards!
They may very well have the WBL of a 20th level charecter!
What, that doesn't make sense?
Well...
With a +20 preform check, 350 days worked a year, average gold made a year is...
3675 a year.
Work for 10 years, and you now have an 8th level pc's wealth.
An elf doing this for 100 years at 200 days a year-
30k less then a 15th level charecter.
300 days a year, exactly a 16th level charecter.
At 200 years and 300 days a year, he has 60k less wealth then a 20th level charecter.
A elven bard can have a +20 to preform once a day by 3rd level-
+3 skill focus, +2 prodigy, +4 inner beauty, +3 class, +3 rank, +3 cha, +2 masterwork instrument.
Lets tone it down, and cut out the feats, still assuming take 10.
Now he gets
1050 gold a year. After 10 years, he has 10500 gold, or 2 levels above where he's supposed to be.
Take a average lifestyle and subtract 1200 a year, for a total of-
9300 gp.
Or, at first level, take one of those feats and have the same amount over the same amount of time.
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Well, you forgot the taxes.
Ha!
That's great.
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But, if you want a less workaholic version,
At 200 out of 365 days a year, for 200 years, the total is 420000 gp, -24000 for average cost of living as per some rules found at the bottom of the equipment page.
Of course, this thread has already served it's purpose, to entertain me by posting random thoughts, so I'm done with it.
This is mostly a joke. Not meant for PC ideas.
Mostly just pointing out that with an elf's lifespan, any elf who isn't rich by middle age isn't trying hard enough.
I'm just goofing off, really. This is utter nonsense for a PC.
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Yeah, if said elven Bard would give 1000gp to the Bank of of Abadar at 5 percent interest p.a. and then wait for 200 years he would have :
1.72925808151599859948476232811067730715844959588 × 10⁷ gp so roughly 1.73 billion.
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Yeah, if said elven Bard would give 1000gp to the Bank of of Abadar at 5 percent interest p.a. and then wait for 200 years he would have :
1.72925808151599859948476232811067730715844959588 × 10⁷ gp so roughly 1.73 billion.
This is why many countries have a law in effect that says the government can seize a bank account if it is left unattended for more than x amount of years. The US is 10 years, and Australia is 7 years, iirc. Not sure what Abadar is. :)
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Street Performer archetype gets double the gold on a perform check.
What about Elven Alchemists that adventured for 20 years and hit level 18 and then spent 200 years making alchemical items as a full round action. The ability says ANY alchemical item as a full round action as long as you have the materials. Crafting mundane items costs 1/3 the market value. Blightburn Paste has a market value of 5000 GP. You can sell it for 2500 GP. You can make it for 1666.67 GP. 833.33 GP profit every 6 seconds. 8333.30 GP per minute. 499,998 GP an hour. 3,999,984 GP profit in a regular 8 hour work day.
Even just a 100 GP Adamantine Weapon Blanch will net you 240,000 GP in profit a day making them for 8 hours.
IF you flooded the market with that much repeat product, it would greatly reduce demand for it, dropping the price.
The rules state you can MAKE the stuff that fast, no one said anyone or everyone will BUY it.
You could have a very large stockpile of unsaleable goods, at some point, after you make so many..you run out of money to create more, so your business model fails.
With the bard example, it states "makes this much money"
the alchemist just makes the item… still have to fence it.
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This is why many countries have a law in effect that says the government can seize a bank account if it is left unattended for more than x amount of years. The US is 10 years, and Australia is 7 years, iirc. Not sure what Abadar is. :)Yeah, if said elven Bard would give 1000gp to the Bank of of Abadar at 5 percent interest p.a. and then wait for 200 years he would have :
1.72925808151599859948476232811067730715844959588 × 10⁷ gp so roughly 1.73 billion.
also banks are now getting in on this. If you account does not have any activity for a year, then will start to charge a 6 dollar fee.
No one said they wouldn't buy it either. The only rules are that you can sell items at half their market value.Street Performer archetype gets double the gold on a perform check.
What about Elven Alchemists that adventured for 20 years and hit level 18 and then spent 200 years making alchemical items as a full round action. The ability says ANY alchemical item as a full round action as long as you have the materials. Crafting mundane items costs 1/3 the market value. Blightburn Paste has a market value of 5000 GP. You can sell it for 2500 GP. You can make it for 1666.67 GP. 833.33 GP profit every 6 seconds. 8333.30 GP per minute. 499,998 GP an hour. 3,999,984 GP profit in a regular 8 hour work day.
Even just a 100 GP Adamantine Weapon Blanch will net you 240,000 GP in profit a day making them for 8 hours.
IF you flooded the market with that much repeat product, it would greatly reduce demand for it, dropping the price.
The rules state you can MAKE the stuff that fast, no one said anyone or everyone will BUY it.
You could have a very large stockpile of unsaleable goods, at some point, after you make so many..you run out of money to create more, so your business model fails.
With the bard example, it states "makes this much money"
the alchemist just makes the item… still have to fence it.
the BUYING part isn't a given by the mere passing of time… it has to be played. so passing of time would only accumulate items… not the gold they are sold for.
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Breaking the economy is a funny thing in this game.
Here's mine:
Step 1 - start at 1st level.
Step 2 - hire as many mercenaries as you can for one week. To sweeten the deal, offer them a percentage of the loot.
Step 3 - tell them to raid... whatever.
Step 4 - profit! Oh, and now you can fund an even larger mercenary army.
Note that this... or anything... only works if the GM has no idea what's happening. So, I'd suggest a good dose of cold medicine in their Mountain Dew before attempting this one.
A breakdown of the math for those that have an interest:
your character starts with about 35 to 175Gp; we'll assume averages (EDIT: AND NONE OF THAT RICH PARENTS CHEESY TRAIT TRIPE... though, that ramps my numbers up REALLY HIGH)
a trained hireling (which includes mercenaries) costs 3Sp per day
so, with a quick multiplication to adjust from G to S, we have 350 to 1750 silver at first level
350/3 = 116 or so mercenaries for one day, or you can hire 16 for one week (this is the monk)
1750/3 = 583 or so mercenaries for one day, or you can hire 83 for one week (this is the paladin)
(EDIT: 428 for one week with Rich Parents)
SO... Yeah. There you have it, folks. Conquering the known world on a budget.
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You worked in that our friendly bard wants to eat and live somewhere, right?
Or is it the classic PC who sleeps in a lean-to in his gleaming mail, while eating boiled cardboard soup? 10gp a mo doesn't seem like much but that's still 120gp a year, and there's probably a tax on top of that from the city or local magistrate, or hell guild fees.
Also equipment fees (assuming our guy wants stuff over like 1gp on occasion).
So basically you'd be looking at like 1/4 of your monthly income going to housing and upkeep.
1/4 probably going to taxes.
1/8 or so going to incidentals.
Would he make money? Yeah but the guy would probably want to splurge, get married, pay for his kids education, buy a nicer house (a giant pile of coin 200 years from now...isn't anything compared to goods now, thanks to opportunity cost).
Also if the guy had a giant pile of coins, they'd probably just mint more or change currency on him making his huge ridiculous stockpile worthless.
If a player did this in my campaign, I'd see it as time to drop the arbitrage bomb and render gold and currency found in ancient tombs worthless as actual currency.
In general, fantasy campaigns really need to think about to handle their weird creatures if they're going to try to act cosmopolitan.
Hell, I've already got guys who use government backed paper currency instead of gold (with periodic turn ins).
Their tactic was ironically designed for multiple purposes but one was bringing dragons into line or urging them to go somewhere else. Either the dragon shows up periodically to get his bills changed, or his hoard becomes useless paper (and dragons don't like lounging on flammable, fungible, paper). If they want bullion they have to contend with the national Government, who's got dragons on payroll (in exchange for being able to lounge on nice bullion in exchange for that crappy paper).
Another country has dragons that work as guards for its capital, there is a city wide sales tax that serves the purpose of gathering up money from transactions to pay for the dragons in service under the Government (being on the dole has certain requirements though, it contractual). Also dragons aren't exempt from the sales tax in the capital, meaning they spread their wealth throughout the rest of the empire.
One country expressly forbids the undead from holding property and insists that property must go through appropriate probate as if they had died.
All of the civilized countries have tax laws on raw possession (king's tithe), one nation has a religious tithing requirement (even a small percentage of your monetary ownings can add up).
Elves can retain property for several hundred years, but accruing too much results in increasing tax burden and attention, so they tend to diversify, or spread their wealth into investments.
Generally the richer people in my campaign setting are rich in terms of influence and investment, not in terms of liquid wealth.
Which is kind of how it is in real life.
The guy who has $20 in his pocket but has investments in businesses, a nice car, grants for his kids, a seat at a university and health insurance is a damn sight better off then the moron who has $4,000,000.00 stashed in his mattress for the silverfish to eat.
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This is why many countries have a law in effect that says the government can seize a bank account if it is left unattended for more than x amount of years. The US is 10 years, and Australia is 7 years, iirc. Not sure what Abadar is. :)
Who says he has to leave it unattended? He can deposit a few gp once a year, and withdraw the same amount the next day. Activity keeps the account alive and the interest doesn't change.
If you don't mind the accumulated interest changing, make a small annual deposit and withdraw nothing.
You worked in that our friendly bard wants to eat and live somewhere, right?
While the rest of the post is quite interesting, this was already covered under "lifestyle expenses" in the first post.
An elf ith a 200-year plan gets thugged in year 199 by the grandchildren of the goblins he offended 198 years ago.
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Breaking the economy is a funny thing in this game.
Here's mine:
Step 1 - start at 1st level.
Step 2 - hire as many mercenaries as you can for one week. To sweeten the deal, offer them a percentage of the loot.
Step 3 - tell them to raid... whatever.
Step 4 - profit! Oh, and now you can fund an even larger mercenary army.
Congratulations, you've described the development of society from the agrarian revolution up.
One country expressly forbids the undead from holding property and insists that property must go through appropriate probate as if they had died..That's pretty much the standard assumption since in most lands that are not Geb, Undead are considered monsters, not people, and thus have no default rights to coin, property, or even continuing their undead existence.
That's what the Nazis did to Jews.
Very true. The differences, however, are profound. Canonically, unlike "one of many human races", undeath is a state similar to a disease: a catchable, spreading disease that actively corrupts those who have it. The cases where it is not, it is generally acquired exclusively by the evil or the unwilling.
While I like the idea of non-evil undead, it must be clear that in-canon, there are few and far between, and most of those are literally cursed with their state. All else is death, corruption, and evil. Regardless, it is an acquired state that occurs after actual death.
The Jews, on the other-hand, are just people who were said to have innate wickedness, but did not.
Very big difference.
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One country expressly forbids the undead from holding property and insists that property must go through appropriate probate as if they had died..That's pretty much the standard assumption since in most lands that are not Geb, Undead are considered monsters, not people, and thus have no default rights to coin, property, or even continuing their undead existence.
Its also an established rule that title and royal authority passes on death. A campaign setting where these things occur with regularity has to plan for it or suffer the disasters.
Mostly the country in question did it to avoid wizards turning themselves into liches on a regular basis. The mage is less likely to become an undead abomination if it means his entire estate goes up for probate.
Somewhere in my campaign setting there's a lich trying to press a case of ex libra on tomb defenders who were hired to prevent 'theft' after discovering that it wasn't theft if it was just inheritance since they were hired prior to the law being passed.
And if you think issues over inheritances aren't appropriate fantasy fair, you've not read enough history.
Culture plays into economics as well obviously. In the real world religious concerns over usury are why occidental investment systems had to be adapted when moved into Islamic countries.
To return to my campaign setting, a nation heavy on clergy ends up being a bit more circumspect regarding the undead in comparison to the probate guys above (a nation under a magocratic oligarchy) since well, sapient undead who obey the law are just dead. And quite a few of the undead are undead because their various divine patrons willed it so. (One city is ruled over by a lich-priest councilwoman dedicated to the god of revenge (her city acts as her phylactery.))
So our theoretical elven bard guy might find himself in a different situation due to culture.
Perhaps elven states believe that you should put money into the communal kitty (to pay for brash youngsters and their 'experiential learning') every century equivalent to say a third of your assets.
Maybe he emigrates to human countries as a result, and humans knowing this is why they have an influx of skilled elven folks, institute a program of either tax relief to attract them, or alternatively require higher taxes as a mean of freeing up more liquid income.
Maybe someone's just an a$$hole and has a 'pointy ear' tax due to the elves that gets applied to halflings and half-elves as well, resulting in some racial turmoil (Them damn old elven bards, making life hard for the working hobbit!).
If he takes it and sits on it, he'll have looters showing up for it. If he spends it, he spends it.
Also, money doesn't exist in a vacuum. Dude might generate gold every day, but he's not going to siphon up all the lucre in a town, state or continent just because the rules say he earns a certain amount of gold each day.
And if he did have some mystical ability to compel people give him gold even when they can't afford bread, shelter or shoes? Well, that's why adventurers are around, to perforate his butt and let people eat.
OP obviously missed this ancient thread: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2prpg?From-rags-to-riches-Commoners-Quest
One consideration, which explains the ever-present 10th level Barkeep NPC, is that RP situations grant XP according to the core rules, in line with their challenge rating. Technically, that elven bard OP mentions is probably also level 20.