So, I haven't seen much on this subject other than the price ranges or having to enchant the barrel of your arcane gun or something... not a fan of the limited information tbh xD
The reason why I ask, is cause it seems more like a prepare spell thing than really anything else. You know how that works, reading up on your spell book or what have you to prepare yourself before casting... except you're enchanting bullets with certain spells that you could fire from your gun. Of course, with that in mind, I think the limits on how many times you can use a spell would be drastically lessened every time you do this per day.. o -o
Then there's the issue of like.. can you split up the power of the single spell you're using as an enchant to several bullets at once? These are some seriously important questions I must know D:
FYI: The effects placed on the bullets themselves are obviously activated upon impact with really anything... thus causing you to be able to do long ranged spell casting (Sorta).
You can enchant ammo. It works exactly like enchanting a weapon, with the exact same weapon enchantments, except you get 50 pieces of ammunition for the same price as a normal magic weapon.
Jeraa wrote: You can enchant ammo. It works exactly like enchanting a weapon, with the exact same weapon enchantments, except you get 50 pieces of ammunition for the same price as a normal magic weapon. Hmm, so this is for free? Just.. self enchant 50 bullets at once without much payment of gp?
If so, wouldn't this just take up a spell use slot?
PapercraftKnight wrote: Jeraa wrote: You can enchant ammo. It works exactly like enchanting a weapon, with the exact same weapon enchantments, except you get 50 pieces of ammunition for the same price as a normal magic weapon. Hmm, so this is for free? Just.. self enchant 50 bullets at once without much payment of gp?
If so, wouldn't this just take up a spell use slot? No, its not for free. You do know how enchanting an item works, right? 50 +1 Flaming arrows cost the exact same as and are made the exact same way as a +1 Flaming longsword.
No. Its not for free. You can enchant (or buy) ammunition that has been enchanted for the same price as you can a weapon of that same enchantment.
As an example, take a +1 longsword. The longsword itself costs 15gp. To have it enchanted it must be masterwork, which is an extra 300. We're up to 315 now. The cost to enchant a weapon to +1 is Bonus^2x2000. 1^2 = 1, so we add another 2000. Up to 2315gp.
You can buy a +1 longsword for 2315gp on the open market.
Now lets look at bullets, since you seem to be talking about a gunslinger.
Bullets are 1gp each. Enchanting is done per 50 ammunition. Ammunition is +6 for masterwork per. So we're looking at 7 per bullet times 50. 350 base, plus the 2000 for a +1.
2350gp for 50 +1 bullets.
Jeraa wrote: PapercraftKnight wrote: Jeraa wrote: You can enchant ammo. It works exactly like enchanting a weapon, with the exact same weapon enchantments, except you get 50 pieces of ammunition for the same price as a normal magic weapon. Hmm, so this is for free? Just.. self enchant 50 bullets at once without much payment of gp?
If so, wouldn't this just take up a spell use slot? No, its not for free. You do know how enchanting an item works, right? 50 +1 Flaming arrows cost the exact same as and are made the exact same way as a +1 Flaming longsword. I'm very very new to Pathfinder tbh, so I haven't gone that far into researching the whole thing. I wasn't really sure what to look up D:
But yea, thanks for the info man. It's a good thing I went on here, makes it slightly easier and simpler to find things that I'm clueless on. xD
PapercraftKnight wrote: Jeraa wrote: You can enchant ammo. It works exactly like enchanting a weapon, with the exact same weapon enchantments, except you get 50 pieces of ammunition for the same price as a normal magic weapon. Hmm, so this is for free? Just.. self enchant 50 bullets at once without much payment of gp?
If so, wouldn't this just take up a spell use slot? Enchanting 50 units of ammunition is exactly the same as enchanting a weapon. So you can cast greater magic weapon on a gun or on fifty bullets.
Example 2: Instead of adding bane to your already heavily enchanted bow. You could make fifty +1 bane vs x arrows.
Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
do magical arrows and such get destroyed per shot?
what exactly would the point be of enchanting ammunition? (other than spells that can do it)
Bandw2 wrote: do magical arrows and such get destroyed per shot?
what exactly would the point be of enchanting ammunition? (other than spells that can do it)
Magic arrows that hit are destroyed. Magical arrows that miss have a 50% chance to be destroyed or lose the enchantments.
You enchant ammunition with special enchantments that you might not want to always use. For example, the Brilliant Energy enchantment makes the bow ignore non-living material. So it bypasses armor. But it also can't damage undead or constructs. But if you applied the Brilliant Energy enchantment to some arrows, you could use those arrows when you wanted to, and the bow itself would still be useful against undead and constructs.
Likewise, the Merciful enchantment turn all the weapons damage into nonlethal damage. But what if you wanted to do lethal damage instead? If the arrow itself was enchanted with Merciful, you could still use other arrows with your bow and do lethal damage, switching to the Merciful arrows when you want to knock something out.
Plus, if your GM allows you to purchase magic items, you can potentially purchase just a few arrows that you would only want to use occasionally, and get a substantial discount. (For example, purchasing 10 +1 Elf Bane arrows for 1/5th the cost of the equivalent weapon.)
Bandw2 wrote:
what exactly would the point be of enchanting ammunition? (other than spells that can do it)
It is actually not that great idea to enchant ammo. However, it has its uses, AKA situational Enhacenments tat you do not want to spend money putting them on your bow but are useful some times, Like having a couple of +1 ghost touch arrows in case you encounter an incorporeal creature
You mentioned Arcane Gun and spending spells to enchant your ammo. Are you talking about a Spellslinger?
there's also the odd myrmidarch magus gun-mage, since ranged spellstrike doesnt specify a bow, only a ranged attack.
Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
AndIMustMask wrote: there's also the odd myrmidarch magus gun-mage, since ranged spellstrike doesnt specify a bow, only a ranged attack. or that guy who throws rocks.
Bandw2 wrote: do magical arrows and such get destroyed per shot?
what exactly would the point be of enchanting ammunition? (other than spells that can do it)
One thing to keep in mind is while enchantment bonuses don't stack the special abilities do. Adding bane to a +3, holy, flaming and shocking weapon is quite expensive especially if the campaign will only be focused on X type creatures for a short time.
The real use however is for NPC's, whom the DM can give a handful of special arrows rather then an expensive weapon.
Lord Vukodlak wrote:
The real use however is for NPC's, whom the DM can give a handful of special arrows rather then an expensive weapon.
Or as a GM, I love rewarding small caches of enchanted arrows into the treasure to see what my players decide to do them. I let them experiment with enchantments they will never buy otherwise.
When I play an archer all my "normal" arrows are all cold iron (because they cost so little) and I try to have some silvered arrows.
I usually don't have any magical arrows before my bow has been enchanted to roughly +3... Then I start to add a few magical arrows with different special abilities. Notable arrows are holy, bane, ghost touch and such enchantments.
Tarantula wrote: No. Its not for free. You can enchant (or buy) ammunition that has been enchanted for the same price as you can a weapon of that same enchantment.
As an example, take a +1 longsword. The longsword itself costs 15gp. To have it enchanted it must be masterwork, which is an extra 300. We're up to 315 now. The cost to enchant a weapon to +1 is Bonus^2x2000. 1^2 = 1, so we add another 2000. Up to 2315gp.
You can buy a +1 longsword for 2315gp on the open market.
Now lets look at bullets, since you seem to be talking about a gunslinger.
Bullets are 1gp each. Enchanting is done per 50 ammunition. Ammunition is +6 for masterwork per. So we're looking at 7 per bullet times 50. 350 base, plus the 2000 for a +1.
2350gp for 50 +1 bullets.
The only part I dont get is the cost bit... now I can see the need to pay for magic components from a shop if you wanted to enchant something, but what if you're out adventuring. Do you need to use gold in order to do the enchant or craft some random item?
Also, does the price thing only important when you're trying to figure out the amount of downtime your character needs to enchant/craft the said item? :o
I kinda never understood any of these things to be totally honest.. xD
PapercraftKnight wrote: Tarantula wrote: No. Its not for free. You can enchant (or buy) ammunition that has been enchanted for the same price as you can a weapon of that same enchantment.
As an example, take a +1 longsword. The longsword itself costs 15gp. To have it enchanted it must be masterwork, which is an extra 300. We're up to 315 now. The cost to enchant a weapon to +1 is Bonus^2x2000. 1^2 = 1, so we add another 2000. Up to 2315gp.
You can buy a +1 longsword for 2315gp on the open market.
Now lets look at bullets, since you seem to be talking about a gunslinger.
Bullets are 1gp each. Enchanting is done per 50 ammunition. Ammunition is +6 for masterwork per. So we're looking at 7 per bullet times 50. 350 base, plus the 2000 for a +1.
2350gp for 50 +1 bullets.
The only part I dont get is the cost bit... now I can see the need to pay for magic components from a shop if you wanted to enchant something, but what if you're out adventuring. Do you need to use gold in order to do the enchant or craft some random item?
Also, does the price thing only important when you're trying to figure out the amount of downtime your character needs to enchant/craft the said item? :o
I kinda never understood any of these things to be totally honest.. xD If your out adventuring then you can't buy the raw materials needed in order to craft magic items. You could but the raw materials in town then craft the item later while traveling, though it takes longer.
Lord Vukodlak wrote: PapercraftKnight wrote: Tarantula wrote: No. Its not for free. You can enchant (or buy) ammunition that has been enchanted for the same price as you can a weapon of that same enchantment.
As an example, take a +1 longsword. The longsword itself costs 15gp. To have it enchanted it must be masterwork, which is an extra 300. We're up to 315 now. The cost to enchant a weapon to +1 is Bonus^2x2000. 1^2 = 1, so we add another 2000. Up to 2315gp.
You can buy a +1 longsword for 2315gp on the open market.
Now lets look at bullets, since you seem to be talking about a gunslinger.
Bullets are 1gp each. Enchanting is done per 50 ammunition. Ammunition is +6 for masterwork per. So we're looking at 7 per bullet times 50. 350 base, plus the 2000 for a +1.
2350gp for 50 +1 bullets.
The only part I dont get is the cost bit... now I can see the need to pay for magic components from a shop if you wanted to enchant something, but what if you're out adventuring. Do you need to use gold in order to do the enchant or craft some random item?
Also, does the price thing only important when you're trying to figure out the amount of downtime your character needs to enchant/craft the said item? :o
I kinda never understood any of these things to be totally honest.. xD If your out adventuring then you can't buy the raw materials needed in order to craft magic items. But what if you're wandering around in a dungeon and find a treasure chest with some raw materials inside? (This is only if the GM allows it... obviously.) I know this is like... a question that needs common sense to understand, but I gotta make sure... ya'know? :o
PapercraftKnight wrote: Lord Vukodlak wrote: PapercraftKnight wrote: Tarantula wrote: No. Its not for free. You can enchant (or buy) ammunition that has been enchanted for the same price as you can a weapon of that same enchantment.
As an example, take a +1 longsword. The longsword itself costs 15gp. To have it enchanted it must be masterwork, which is an extra 300. We're up to 315 now. The cost to enchant a weapon to +1 is Bonus^2x2000. 1^2 = 1, so we add another 2000. Up to 2315gp.
You can buy a +1 longsword for 2315gp on the open market.
Now lets look at bullets, since you seem to be talking about a gunslinger.
Bullets are 1gp each. Enchanting is done per 50 ammunition. Ammunition is +6 for masterwork per. So we're looking at 7 per bullet times 50. 350 base, plus the 2000 for a +1.
2350gp for 50 +1 bullets.
The only part I dont get is the cost bit... now I can see the need to pay for magic components from a shop if you wanted to enchant something, but what if you're out adventuring. Do you need to use gold in order to do the enchant or craft some random item?
Also, does the price thing only important when you're trying to figure out the amount of downtime your character needs to enchant/craft the said item? :o
I kinda never understood any of these things to be totally honest.. xD If your out adventuring then you can't buy the raw materials needed in order to craft magic items. But what if you're wandering around in a dungeon and find a treasure chest with some raw materials inside? (This is only if the GM allows it... obviously.) I know this is like... a question that needs common sense to understand, but I gotta make sure... ya'know? :o Nothing prevents the GM from adding raw crafting materials to treasure. I've had several GM's that did it.
Also... The gold cost is to know how expensive the item is to make and how long it will take.
Lifat wrote: PapercraftKnight wrote: Lord Vukodlak wrote: PapercraftKnight wrote: Tarantula wrote: No. Its not for free. You can enchant (or buy) ammunition that has been enchanted for the same price as you can a weapon of that same enchantment.
As an example, take a +1 longsword. The longsword itself costs 15gp. To have it enchanted it must be masterwork, which is an extra 300. We're up to 315 now. The cost to enchant a weapon to +1 is Bonus^2x2000. 1^2 = 1, so we add another 2000. Up to 2315gp.
You can buy a +1 longsword for 2315gp on the open market.
Now lets look at bullets, since you seem to be talking about a gunslinger.
Bullets are 1gp each. Enchanting is done per 50 ammunition. Ammunition is +6 for masterwork per. So we're looking at 7 per bullet times 50. 350 base, plus the 2000 for a +1.
2350gp for 50 +1 bullets.
The only part I dont get is the cost bit... now I can see the need to pay for magic components from a shop if you wanted to enchant something, but what if you're out adventuring. Do you need to use gold in order to do the enchant or craft some random item?
Also, does the price thing only important when you're trying to figure out the amount of downtime your character needs to enchant/craft the said item? :o
I kinda never understood any of these things to be totally honest.. xD If your out adventuring then you can't buy the raw materials needed in order to craft magic items. But what if you're wandering around in a dungeon and find a treasure chest with some raw materials inside? (This is only if the GM allows it... obviously.) I know this is like... a question that needs common sense to understand, but I gotta make sure... ya'know? :o Nothing prevents the GM from adding raw crafting materials to treasure. I've had several GM's that did it.
Also... The gold cost is to know how expensive the item is to make and how long it will take. Ah, awesome. Thanks guys! :D
Such great help. ; w;
PapercraftKnight wrote:
But what if you're wandering around in a dungeon and find a treasure chest with some raw materials inside? (This is only if the GM allows it... obviously.) I know this is like... a question that needs common sense to understand, but I gotta make sure... ya'know? :o
Consider looking up "Talismanic Components" ; it seems to most strongly resemble what you want.
PapercraftKnight wrote:
But what if you're wandering around in a dungeon and find a treasure chest with some raw materials inside? (This is only if the GM allows it... obviously.) I know this is like... a question that needs common sense to understand, but I gotta make sure... ya'know? :o
"Expect table variation." Most groups simply allow you to handwave the actual crafting supplies and allow you simply to spend gold (or even gold-equivalent), partly because it's not clear what the actual supplies would be and how transferrable they are. (Are the magical components for a scroll of sleep the same as a scroll of endure elements? I mean, parchment and ink are fairly universal, right?)
Unless you really get off on playing Manifests and Merchants, in which case, yes, there really is a difference between gall ink, lampblack ink, and squid ink....
PapercraftKnight wrote: Lord Vukodlak wrote: PapercraftKnight wrote: Tarantula wrote: No. Its not for free. You can enchant (or buy) ammunition that has been enchanted for the same price as you can a weapon of that same enchantment.
As an example, take a +1 longsword. The longsword itself costs 15gp. To have it enchanted it must be masterwork, which is an extra 300. We're up to 315 now. The cost to enchant a weapon to +1 is Bonus^2x2000. 1^2 = 1, so we add another 2000. Up to 2315gp.
You can buy a +1 longsword for 2315gp on the open market.
Now lets look at bullets, since you seem to be talking about a gunslinger.
Bullets are 1gp each. Enchanting is done per 50 ammunition. Ammunition is +6 for masterwork per. So we're looking at 7 per bullet times 50. 350 base, plus the 2000 for a +1.
2350gp for 50 +1 bullets.
The only part I dont get is the cost bit... now I can see the need to pay for magic components from a shop if you wanted to enchant something, but what if you're out adventuring. Do you need to use gold in order to do the enchant or craft some random item?
Also, does the price thing only important when you're trying to figure out the amount of downtime your character needs to enchant/craft the said item? :o
I kinda never understood any of these things to be totally honest.. xD If your out adventuring then you can't buy the raw materials needed in order to craft magic items. But what if you're wandering around in a dungeon and find a treasure chest with some raw materials inside? (This is only if the GM allows it... obviously.) I know this is like... a question that needs common sense to understand, but I gotta make sure... ya'know? :o Crafting magic items requires one day for each 1,000gp value of the market price of the item. You can halve the crafting time by increasing the spellcraft DC by 5.
OR you can have a full day's travel&adventuring and still work on the item but it takes four times as long (one day for every 250gp of the magic's market price).
So making a +1 sword (2,000gp market price) takes two days of work and 1,000gp in raw materials plus a masterwork sword. You could finish the work in one day by increasing the spellcraft DC by 5. Or if your constantly traveling and adventuring you could finish the work in eight days by crafting items while the party has set up camp.
*Scrolls and potions worth under 250gp are an exception and can be crafted in two hours. Anything costing more then 250gp takes a minimum of one day.
So given how long it takes to make magic items it is not practical to make them while out adventuring.
It is definitely not practical to make magic items while adventuring but if you really need to then it can be done as long as you have the materials.
@Bane Wraith: That link is super awesome.
I just want to throw out that you need a Feat for crafting magic items. Depending on the item you want to make tells you which feat is required. For magic weapons its Craft Magic Arms and Armor. If you don't have the right feat, you can NOT make the item.
Lord Vukodlak wrote:
Crafting magic items requires one day for each 1,000gp value of the market price of the item. You can halve the crafting time by increasing the spellcraft DC by 5.
OR you can have a full day's travel&adventuring and still work on the item but it takes four times as long (one day for every 250gp...
If in a sheltered and quite space with the materials and tools needed, you can actually get 2000 gp per day done if you spend 8 hours on crafting at an extra spellcraft DC +5. But you can only make one magical item per day max and you cannot work longer then 8 hours on an item (you may do so, but it will not be effective). Remember that the time spent on making a magic item at the rate of 2000 gold a day must be spent in 2 uninterupted four hour blocks. But you can take a break between the 2 blocks for some food, rest or even shopping.
And while adventuring you can only spent four hours a day on crafting (doing nothing else then 8 hours of travel and 8 hours of sleep and the basic activities), but because you are not in ideal circumstances the time counted against the actual (effective) hours of work is halved. Again noone stops you from taking an extra spellcraft DC +5 to speed up production and get 4 effective hours of work in on the move!
Off course you need to be able to afford the extra +5 DC, but I noticed that this usually is not a problem. It might be a problem if you make a more complex (higher DC) item and you need to compensate not having the spell available as well. But remember that letting a friend reserve the needed spell for your crafting is allowed as well. The friend effectively studies the spell and may not use the slot and be present at the creation/enchanting until the item is finished at which time the spell will be removed from the slot as if it was cast normally but no effects take place.
I'm kinda hoping for a Gunslinger/Alchemist hybrid at some point.
Imagine a full BAB pseudo-caster like a Ranger, who loads and fires Extracts out of a Gun.
---
Anyway, there's a thing called Downtime.
Downtime presupposes that you are not going to be chain-diving dungeons, and take a week's breather or so between adventures.
This is actually when you're supposed to level up (rather than just go "XP! PING!") and also when you do non-adventure things like gain money doing menial work, craft items, Retrain, etc.
Downtime is figured to happen between sessions or adventure arcs (if a single adventure takes multiple sessions), but there's nothing to say your DM can't play out Downtime for the party; having a Downtime session can actually be a good breather from the typical adventure sessions (especially if your DM is a fan of nearly TPKing every time you enter a dungeon).
just to throw one more concern out there...
In the mentioned "find materials in a chest" scenario, many GMs will make the days you spend crafting (while in a dungeon), well, interesting.
Snowleopard wrote: Lord Vukodlak wrote:
Crafting magic items requires one day for each 1,000gp value of the market price of the item. You can halve the crafting time by increasing the spellcraft DC by 5.
OR you can have a full day's travel&adventuring and still work on the item but it takes four times as long (one day for every 250gp...
If in a sheltered and quite space with the materials and tools needed, you can actually get 2000 gp per day done if you spend 8 hours on crafting at an extra spellcraft DC +5. But you can only make one magical item per day max and you cannot work longer then 8 hours on an item (you may do so, but it will not be effective). Remember that the time spent on making a magic item at the rate of 2000 gold a day must be spent in 2 uninterupted four hour blocks. But you can take a break between the 2 blocks for some food, rest or even shopping.
And while adventuring you can only spent four hours a day on crafting (doing nothing else then 8 hours of travel and 8 hours of sleep and the basic activities), but because you are not in ideal circumstances the time counted against the actual (effective) hours of work is halved. Again noone stops you from taking an extra spellcraft DC +5 to speed up production and get 4 effective hours of work in on the move!
Off course you need to be able to afford the extra +5 DC, but I noticed that this usually is not a problem. It might be a problem if you make a more complex (higher DC) item and you need to compensate not having the spell available as well. But remember that letting a friend reserve the needed spell for your crafting is allowed as well. The friend effectively studies the spell and may not use the slot and be present at the creation/enchanting until the item is finished at which time the spell will be removed from the slot as if it was cast normally but no effects take place.
You successfully explained in three paragraphs what I said in two sentences well done.
I very much recommend reading the entire section on creating magic items. Otherwise, it's difficult to have a meaningful conversation that doesn't simply rehash the contents of that section.
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