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Swift actions are specifically limited to one per turn, regardless of what other actions you take, and nothing in readying an action changes that.
This, although true, is not what's being posited.
Take the first swift action off the top of my head: Lay On Hands. It takes a swift action to use LOH on yourself.
We are not asking to convert our standard action into a swift action so we have two in the same round. We are asking to be able to LOH on ourselves as a standard action. Not a swift.
We are saying that we can use our standard action to do stuff which normally only takes a swift, not asking for two swift actions!
Therefore, saying 'you can't have two swift actions' is irrelavent.
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Swift actions are specifically limited to one per turn, regardless of what other actions you take, and nothing in readying an action changes that.This, although true, is not what's being posited.
Take the first swift action off the top of my head: Lay On Hands. It takes a swift action to use LOH on yourself.
We are not asking to convert our standard action into a swift action so we have two in the same round. We are asking to be able to LOH on ourselves as a standard action. Not a swift.
We are saying that we can use our standard action to do stuff which normally only takes a swift, not asking for two swift actions!
Therefore, saying 'you can't have two swift actions' is irrelavent.
I think the issue is not that it's being used as two swift actions, but that it's being used twice in a round. The fact that it's a swift action indicates that the intent is for it to only be used once a round—specifically, it allows you to give yourself a bit of a heal and still lay the smack down that same round.
Generally speaking, I feel that there are some situations in which I would allow the swift action to be expended as a standard, with the caveat that it would provoke an AoO to do so (as others have already alluded to).
I have to say, not only does this thread win the prize for being the longest (current) thread-title we have in the Rules Question forum, but it should also probably be an Errata requested instead of a FAQ, considering that the question is not, in fact, a question about the actual rules, per se, but instead hoping for an alteration to them. (At least, as of my current reading.)
Regardless of how this rules out, I'll continue to allow my players to "trade down" actions, and hope this thing gets sorted out however the Devs feel best.
Really, so long as the rules are any which way but loose, I'll be happy.
Setting aside the question of whether you can trigger a ready action on meta-game states like "the start of his turn" (which is a great question and IMHO another possible FAQ candidate).While this solves the immediate problem of casting quickened spells as standard actions, it defeats the purpose of the question which is to answer whether you can use an action type that takes greater time for something that can be performed quickly without impacting the number swift actions you can perform.
This actually isn't in question at all. The first response to this thread was the correct one, the only allowed substitution is a standard to a move. Move to swift, standard to swift, or any other swap is not allowed.
Swift actions are specifically limited to one per turn, regardless of what other actions you take, and nothing in readying an action changes that.This, although true, is not what's being posited.
Take the first swift action off the top of my head: Lay On Hands. It takes a swift action to use LOH on yourself.
We are not asking to convert our standard action into a swift action so we have two in the same round. We are asking to be able to LOH on ourselves as a standard action. Not a swift.
We are saying that we can use our standard action to do stuff which normally only takes a swift, not asking for two swift actions!
Therefore, saying 'you can't have two swift actions' is irrelavent.
The point is that the rules apply certain actions(game term) to certain acts. As I said in a previous post there are times when this would not be a problem but the intent is to use the listed action type barring certain cases which I gave examples of. If the intent was to use _____ or a longer action it would have been stated. If you(general statement) allow this then I would suggest it be on a case by case basis.
It's a limit on how quickly you can do things, not a limit on how slowly you can do things.
In real life that would be true, but in the game the limit is on which specific action you are allowed to use.
I do agree that it would be nice for certain abilities to be officially more open to specific action usage, but with the way the game is now, and certain abilities being written to only be activated once due to the swift action rules I don't think it is a good time to change the general rule. This would have been better implemented during the beta testing phase.That way 1/round abilities would be written that way instead of depending on the swift or immediate actions to take care of it for them.
As an example being able to cast Cold Ice Strike twice would be nice but per the current rules you can only do so once per round.
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There is no general rule about trading actions down on some ordinal hierarchy. There are specific action exchanges that are spelled out. No FAQ is needed about this. Of you want the rule to be different, houserule it to be different.
The option to ready a an action to take a swift action was added by Paizo to the 3.5 SRD when making PF; it didn't exist in 3.5, as the swift action was not part of the SRD. The ready swift option coexists with the limit on one swift action. To ready a swift action, you have to have a swift action available.
I don't think there's really confusion on the rule, there is dissatisfaction.
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There is confusion to the extent that a lot of people just assume that you can trade a Standard (or sometimes a Move) for a Swift on the grounds that it sounds obvious to them, and are surprised to be told that it isn't possible. I'm not sure FAQing it would help though, since finding out that there's no such rule by searching the FAQs isn't much easier than doing the same thing using the messageboards.
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I've seen this come up a few times, and in discussions about it the general conclusion I've seen (regarding "broken" factor), is that allowing swift action trading, but not allowing the same type of action more than once, would be fine.
For example, with this change:
You can swift judgement, swift lay hands, move off an edge and immediate featherfall in a round.
You can't lay hands three times in a row.
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This idea came about because of the way Quickened spells are already limited (so you are already limited to only 2 max, no matter what):
A spell with a casting time of 1 swift action doesn't count against your normal limit of one spell per round. However, you may cast such a spell only once per round. Casting a spell with a casting time of 1 swift action doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity.
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A smart Inquisitor in a group with another melee opponent could, under the proposed houserule, swift to activate Bane, drop standard to swift to activate Judgement, and the when the Barbarian/Cavalier/Fighter/etc. charges into the fray, use their immediate action
Under the proposed change they could convert a swift to standard - under your example the inquisitor uses:
1x swift
1x standard
1x swift (immediate)
Using a swift stops you from using an immediate. Being able to convert a swift action to a standard doesn't let you get an extra swift or immediate action in addition to that.
Under the proposed change the inquisitor could use:
1 swift
1 swift converted to standard
move
They couldn't attack (standard) or use an immediate (counts as swift).
So the attack couldn't happen.
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The point is that the rules apply certain actions(game term) to certain acts. As I said in a previous post there are times when this would not be a problem but the intent is to use the listed action type barring certain cases which I gave examples of. If the intent was to use _____ or a longer action it would have been stated. If you(general statement) allow this then I would suggest it be on a case by case basis.
While I don't disagree with you - and actually like the 1 swift per round limit as is - I did FAQ this for one reason:
Any rule that goes against common sense, and is opposite of how most people will *think* about the rules - should be laid out in a more specific and direct manner.
That is the concept of the action round - swift is faster than standard - common sense says you could accomplish the faster action in the longer amount of time. The rules as written are not exactly clear about this - as in a reader not steeped in the idea of actions as discrete bits - but rather as concepts - will not understand the change. For that reason *alone* I hit the FAQ - I am 100% behind any question that helps remove rules that are active and defy a common sense reading.
The rules to this game are already vast and (for the most part) impossible to know 100% - making the combat actions clearer and easier to parse is always a worthwhile goal - as combat is where most players are exposed to the chunkiest parts of the rules, the most frequently.
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The type of action absolutely does not change.Okay, let's assume you are right.
PRD: "In a normal round, you can perform a standard action and a move action, or you can perform a full-round action. You can also perform one swift action and one or more free actions. You can always take a move action in place of a standard action."
The definition of "normal round" states you can take "a standard action" and "one swift action". I hope we agree that means that in a normal round, you may only take one standard action as well?
Taking a Ready Action is a standard action. If you use the Ready Action to use a Standard Action, and it remains a Standard Action as you stated, you are effectively utilizing two Standard Actions in a round.
It goes without saying that Ready Action rounds therefore are not normal rounds.
To interpret "normal round" rules hold for a Swift Action and not for a Standard Action, when utilizing Ready Action... why again? Because in a normal round you can't take more than one Standard... I mean Swift... Action?
(and with that, I'm going to end the Devil's Advocate side of the discussion, thanks for participating Ssalarn, hopefully it gave everyone food for thought)
Special Initiative Actions
Here are ways to change when you act during combat by altering your place in the initiative order.
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ReadyThe ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that you ready might do so).
Reading an action is initiated as a standard action that is completed when you actually complete the readied action.
Before being a standard action it is a Special initiative action.
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A smart Inquisitor in a group with another melee opponent could, under the proposed houserule, swift to activate Bane, drop standard to swift to activate Judgement, and the when the Barbarian/Cavalier/Fighter/etc. charges into the fray, use their immediate actionUnder the proposed change they could convert a swift to standard - under your example the inquisitor uses:
1x swift
1x standard
1x swift (immediate)Using a swift stops you from using an immediate. Being able to convert a swift action to a standard doesn't let you get an extra swift or immediate action in addition to that.
Under the proposed change the inquisitor could use:
1 swift
1 swift converted to standard
moveThey couldn't attack (standard) or use an immediate (counts as swift).
So the attack couldn't happen.
That's actually incorrect. Using a swift does not prevent you from taking an immediate, taking an immediate outside your turn prevents you from using your next swift. "Effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn". So what I described is, in fact, the result of the proposed rules change.
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Reading an action is initiated as a standard action that is completed when you actually complete the readied action.
Before being a standard action it is a Special initiative action.
That is incorrect. Read your own quote: "Readying is a standard action". It tells you right there what kind of action it is. Then it goes on to tell you that readying allows you to take a specific designated action, which must be either a move, swift, or standard, under the selected conditions.
"Special initiative actions" is the title of a subsection of the rules describing actions which affect your initiative, not an action type.
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So it sounds to me like it would be possible to do the following:
* Spend a swift action as normal
* Do whatever with a move action
* Spend a standard action to ready an action to perform a swift action, with the trigger being "as soon as my turn ends".At that point, you're effectively trading your Standard action down to a swift action, right? So why not make it easier and just say you can do that, rather than making the player jump through hoops?
Don't work.
Your trigger should be an action and the readied action happen just before the trigger action.- ending your turn isn't an action, so it is an invalid trigger.
- even if it was a valid trigger, acting just before your round end mean you are acting during your round. But you have already used your swift action for that round.
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Reading an action is initiated as a standard action that is completed when you actually complete the readied action.
Before being a standard action it is a Special initiative action.That is incorrect. Read your own quote: "Readying is a standard action". It tells you right there what kind of action it is. Then it goes on to tell you that readying allows you to take a specific designated action, which must be either a move, swift, or standard, under the selected conditions.
"Special initiative actions" is the title of a subsection of the rules describing actions which affect your initiative, not an action type.
Cheek the titles of those section, subsections and those of the subsections under them:
ACTION TYPES
Standard Actions
- Attack
- Activate Magic Item
- Cast a Spell
etc.
Move Actions
- Move
- Direct or Redirect a Spell
etc.
Full-Round Actions
- Full Attack
- Cast a Spell(that takes one round to cast)
etc.
Free Actions
- Cease Concentration on Spell
etc.
Swift Actions
- Cast a Quickened Spell
Immediate Actions
Miscellaneous Actions
- Take 5-Foot Step
etc.
then, way later.
SPECIAL INITIATIVE ACTIONS
Delay
Ready
There is a hierarchy in those headers. SPECIAL INITIATIVE ACTIONS is at the same level of ACTION TYPES and Ready is at the same level of Standard Actions, so it is a Special Initiative Action first, a Standard action second, where it being a Special Initiative Action is more important.
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Um, no. It is always a standard action. It doesn't start as a special initiative action and become a different action later, and it even says right in the description that it is a standard action to ready another action, and then it says what type of actions taking that standard action allow you to take, and under what conditions. There is absolutely nothing in the rules that says ready is one thing that becomes another, or that it being a special initiative action is more important than it being a standard action.
So say I'm an Inquisitor. On my turn, a legal and RAW sequence of events would be:
There are several enemies who are all just outside of my move speed. I don't want to risk the hit to my AC for charging, nor do I want to get too far away from my group, so-
I take a swift action to activate my bane class ability.
I take a move action to step into an area I know the enemy will want/need to pass through.
I use my standard action to ready an attack action against the first enemy to come within my reach.
On the enemy's turn, when he moves within my reach, the ready action I took allows me to now take a second standard (or move, or swift, but in this instance we readied a standard) action to attack, so I vital strike the enemy.
You can also go look at table 8-2 in your CRB on page 183, where you'll see that "Ready" is specifically listed under the table of standard actions. Special initiative actions do not appear on that table (nor even in the chapter discussing actions at all), because they aren't actually action types. They're things you can do that may or may not fall under an actual action type (delay, for example, is you not taking any action at all, while Readying is a standard action).
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I agree this is the PRD RAW, my point is, It's pretty darn stupid. Like abysmally so. Its so stupid that even the god of stupid winces.
Also, as an aside to my point, I think its something that often gets over looked unintentionally. For example there are several abilities that change an action's type from move to swift. Suddenly you can no longer perform this action twice? stupid.
Fix it Paizo!
It is only stupid to you if you don't give enough emphasis on the importance of balance.
This post thread is not FAQ-worthy as it is explained clearly in the book, although you are welcome to complain about it to your heart's desire. :)
Uh oh! We're in that shadowy area no one wants to acknowledge, where an RPG turns into a board game and real world minutia gets pigeon-holed into a simulistic rule.
RPG: of course you can!
Board game: of course you can't!
Decide what type of game you're in (or want to run), and make the appropriate call.
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Um, no. It is always a standard action. It doesn't start as a special initiative action and become a different action later, and it even says right in the description that it is a standard action to ready another action, and then it says what type of actions taking that standard action allow you to take, and under what conditions. There is absolutely nothing in the rules that says ready is one thing that becomes another, or that it being a special initiative action is more important than it being a standard action.
So say I'm an Inquisitor. On my turn, a legal and RAW sequence of events would be:
There are several enemies who are all just outside of my move speed. I don't want to risk the hit to my AC for charging, nor do I want to get too far away from my group, so-
I take a swift action to activate my bane class ability.
I take a move action to step into an area I know the enemy will want/need to pass through.
I use my standard action to ready an attack action against the first enemy to come within my reach.
On the enemy's turn, when he moves within my reach, the ready action I took allows me to now take a second standard (or move, or swift, but in this instance we readied a standard) action to attack, so I vital strike the enemy.
You can also go look at table 8-2 in your CRB on page 183, where you'll see that "Ready" is specifically listed under the table of standard actions. Special initiative actions do not appear on that table (nor even in the chapter discussing actions at all), because they aren't actually action types. They're things you can do that may or may not fall under an actual action type (delay, for example, is you not taking any action at all, while Readying is a standard action).
Finally I have got what is your problem. You are reading "it is a Special Initiative Action fist" as saying that it is a Special Initiative Action that become a standard action, while I mean that it becoming a Special Initiative Action is more important than being a Standard action.
The ready action rules are determined, as the most important thing, by it being a Special Initiative Action, not by it being a Standard Action.| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Readying an action burns your standard action for that round. What you may do with that readied action is do a standard, move, or swift action. If the rules intended for you to be able to use a standard action to perform an act that requires a swift action then there would not be a need to ready a swift action. You could just ready a standard action and use it to perform a move or swift based act. So when you choose an act that calls for a swift action you are actually using a swift action.
Now some will argue that it makes no sense.
Breakdown: You are allowed to perform a standard or lesser action but you are still using the action that is required for that act.
I hope I explained this well.
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I've realised where we're talking past each other: there are action types, like swift, standard, free, move, full-round, immediate. Then there are the actions themselves, which may use an action type to perform whatever action it is, like attack, LOH, activate special abilities...everything really!
The rules do not allow you to exchange your standard action for a swift action in the way that they do allow you to exchange your standard action for a move action. However, the actions themselves use different action types to perform.
So, no trying to take two swift actions, just trying to use LOH, activate bane, whatever actual action that usually requires a swift action to perform to instead use your standard.
The required action type that a kind of action requires is surely a minimum. Are we saying that because you can move 30-feet as a move action that your not allowed to take two rounds to move 30-feet? That you're not allowed to take a single attack as a full attack just because you could do it as a standard?
What about casting a spell with a casting time of one standard action? A spontaneous caster can make it a full-round casting time by using meta-magic; is he not allowed to start doing that, then change his mind about the meta-magic just as the full-round is complete? Is it not allowed to cast spells at a more leisurely pace than your fastest?
Just because there are no rules for that doesn't mean you're not allowed! The rules are written with certain assumptions: humanoid, trying your best to hit and not be hit, trying to do things as quickly and efficiently as you can. But just because there are no rules for deliberately missing someone with an attack doesn't mean you can't. Just because there are no rules allowing you to deliberately be hit by an attack doesn't mean you can't.
And just because there are rules which give you the fastest time you can do something, doesn't mean you can't take longer.
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Big post
There's a big difference between "can" and "this is the action something takes." You can move up to 30ft in a move action. LoH used on yourself takes a swift action. You can start a bardic performance as a swift action. Bane takes a swift action to activate. Can gives you options, the others don't.
The rules specifically say that you can stop in the midst of a full-attack and describe what happens when you do. And no, when you cast a spell, it takes the listed action.Just because there are no rules for that doesn't mean you're not allowed!
Just because there are no rules for that doesn't mean you are allowed.
The rules state what actions abilities take to use. That's the action they use. That's always the action they use. You can't just say you "take more time on them."
Malachpasi we are not talk past each other. We are saying your proposal is against the rules.
Readying an action burns your standard action for that round. What you may do with that readied action is do a standard, move, or swift action. If the rules intended for you to be able to use a standard action to perform an act that requires a swift action then there would not be a need to ready a swift action. You could just ready a standard action and use it to perform a move or swift based act. So when you choose an act that calls for a swift action you are actually using a swift action.
Now some will argue that it makes no sense.Breakdown: You are allowed to perform a standard or lesser action but you are still using the action that is required for that act.
I hope I explained this well.
Come on wraith, you know that isn't how that works. If you had to spend a standard to ready AND had to expend the appropriate action, then you couldn't ready to cast unquickened spells because you don't have 2 standard actions.
It's pretty clear that the "ready" costs you a standard and buys you a delay, interrupt trigger, and your choice of standard, move, or swift action as declared.
You could also declare a trigger of "if any enemy takes any action" and grab your extra swift. You risk loosing initiative to an ally or all of the enemies delaying, but this is a workaround to get a second swift action.
Readying an action burns your standard action for that round. What you may do with that readied action is do a standard, move, or swift action. If the rules intended for you to be able to use a standard action to perform an act that requires a swift action then there would not be a need to ready a swift action. You could just ready a standard action and use it to perform a move or swift based act. So when you choose an act that calls for a swift action you are actually using a swift action.
Now some will argue that it makes no sense.Breakdown: You are allowed to perform a standard or lesser action but you are still using the action that is required for that act.
I hope I explained this well.
Come on wraith, you know that isn't how that works. If you had to spend a standard to ready AND had to expend the appropriate action, then you couldn't ready to cast unquickened spells because you don't have 2 standard actions.
It's pretty clear that the "ready" costs you a standard and buys you a delay, interrupt trigger, and your choice of standard, move, or swift action as declared.
You could also declare a trigger of "if any enemy takes any action" and grab your extra swift. You risk loosing initiative to an ally or all of the enemies delaying, but this is a workaround to get a second swift action.
Let me explain it again. It cost a standard action to "Ready" anything. That is in the book.
Readying is a standard action.
Emphasis mine.
Doing so allows you to select an action that uses a standard, move or swift action upon the trigger condition being met. You do not however get to use a standard action to active something that calls out another action. You are specifically using whatever action the trigger needs. That is also in the book.
Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action.
Those are the actions that are available to you if you ready an action. That means that if the ability you want to use calls for a swift action that you are actually using a swift action. Otherwise the rules would say that you are using an an ability that requires a swift action when readying. The rules however say you are readying a swift action.
No, I am not playing devil's advocate in case you are wondering. I am telling you how the PDT would say it worked if they were to step in right now.
edit: We are basically saying the same thing. The only difference is that without the ready action have a clause saying your can bypass the "1 swift action per round" limit I am saying you can't do it, but you are saying you can.
Readying an action burns your standard action for that round. What you may do with that readied action is do a standard, move, or swift action. If the rules intended for you to be able to use a standard action to perform an act that requires a swift action then there would not be a need to ready a swift action. You could just ready a standard action and use it to perform a move or swift based act. So when you choose an act that calls for a swift action you are actually using a swift action.
Now some will argue that it makes no sense.Breakdown: You are allowed to perform a standard or lesser action but you are still using the action that is required for that act.
I hope I explained this well.
Come on wraith, you know that isn't how that works. If you had to spend a standard to ready AND had to expend the appropriate action, then you couldn't ready to cast unquickened spells because you don't have 2 standard actions.
It's pretty clear that the "ready" costs you a standard and buys you a delay, interrupt trigger, and your choice of standard, move, or swift action as declared.
You could also declare a trigger of "if any enemy takes any action" and grab your extra swift. You risk loosing initiative to an ally or all of the enemies delaying, but this is a workaround to get a second swift action.
Let me explain it again. It cost a standard action to "Ready" anything. That is in the book.
Readying is a standard action.Emphasis mine.
Doing so allows you to select an action that uses a standard, move or swift action upon the trigger condition being met. You do not however get to use a standard action to active something that calls out another action. You are specifically using whatever action the trigger needs. That is also in the book.
Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action.Those are the actions that are...
If it worked that way then you could never ready an action to cast an unquickened spell.
You get only one standard action and you are using it to ready an action. If you still needed to spend the appropriate action to perform your trigger you wouldn't have any standard actions left to cast a spell.
So, because we know that you can ready an action to cast an unquickened spell, then we must assume that the ready action is granting the additional action economy.
I'm not saying that you can use a standard action to perform a swift action. All I am saying is that readying an action automatically provides the action economy needed to complete that action.
...Readying an action burns your standard action for that round. What you may do with that readied action is do a standard, move, or swift action. If the rules intended for you to be able to use a standard action to perform an act that requires a swift action then there would not be a need to ready a swift action. You could just ready a standard action and use it to perform a move or swift based act. So when you choose an act that calls for a swift action you are actually using a swift action.
Now some will argue that it makes no sense.Breakdown: You are allowed to perform a standard or lesser action but you are still using the action that is required for that act.
I hope I explained this well.
Come on wraith, you know that isn't how that works. If you had to spend a standard to ready AND had to expend the appropriate action, then you couldn't ready to cast unquickened spells because you don't have 2 standard actions.
It's pretty clear that the "ready" costs you a standard and buys you a delay, interrupt trigger, and your choice of standard, move, or swift action as declared.
You could also declare a trigger of "if any enemy takes any action" and grab your extra swift. You risk loosing initiative to an ally or all of the enemies delaying, but this is a workaround to get a second swift action.
Let me explain it again. It cost a standard action to "Ready" anything. That is in the book.
Readying is a standard action.Emphasis mine.
Doing so allows you to select an action that uses a standard, move or swift action upon the trigger condition being met. You do not however get to use a standard action to active something that calls out another action. You are specifically using whatever action the trigger needs. That is also in the book.
Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action.Those
Mechanically both of our methods do the same thing. We just described it differently. If you agree that you can not use a standard action on an act requiring a swift action, and you agree that you can not use the ready action to bypass the "1 swift action" limit then we agree.
I was basically saying the same thing you said. You may not like the words I chose which is why I said upthread that I may not be clear in what I was trying to say.
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Mechanically both of our methods do the same thing.
Not really.
In a normal round, you can perform a standard action and a move action, or you can perform a full-round action. You can also perform one swift action and one or more free actions. You can always take a move action in place of a standard action.
This shows that you can only take ONE standard action and one swift action in a normal round. If you say swift actions can't be taken with ready when you've already taken one that round then you also say that standards can NEVER be taken as ready as it's already been taken up as your standard for the round by ready.
Not sure how this is a 'FAQ' as it's pretty clear you can't.
What is really being asked for is a rule change.
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Not sure how this is a 'FAQ' as it's pretty clear you can't.
What is really being asked for is a rule change.
I disagree - it's clear enough once someone takes the time to point out the details of the action types and why they are so important - then it's clear - but it's not clear on a normal reading of the rules for most people.
If it was you wouldn't have people making these kinds of assumptions in home games without realizing it's a deviation from the rules.
For that reason alone - rules change or not - this should get a FAQ and errata for cleanup in future printings. Surely you are for making the combat rules more clear and easier to understand? Take 'vital strike' for instance - if the 'attack action' language was cleaned up we wouldn't see people trying to use it with other things all the time.
Note a FAQ about a confusing or non-intuitive section of the rules doesn't mean the rule has to change - but it sure would be nice for them to clean up rule language that trips up *so* many people - especially if the rule doesn't change but the resulting text makes things clear.
That's actually incorrect. Using a swift does not prevent you from taking an immediate, taking an immediate outside your turn prevents you from using your next swift. "Effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn". So what I described is, in fact, the result of the proposed rules change.
No - you are incorrect.
Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action and counts as your swift action for that turn.
If you use a swift - you can't use an immediate on your turn. You technically could use the immediate after your turn - it would then burn your swift for the next turn. RAW what you proposed couldn't work, you'd have to wait for initiative to pass and then burn the immediate. Pedantic perhaps but this is the rules forum after all.
As to if this really results in being overpowered for the inquistor - I'd have to playtest to see how it really pans out - it looks good on paper - but so many things do that turn out meh.
Mechanically both of our methods do the same thing.Not really.
In a normal round, you can perform a standard action and a move action, or you can perform a full-round action. You can also perform one swift action and one or more free actions. You can always take a move action in place of a standard action.This shows that you can only take ONE standard action and one swift action in a normal round. If you say swift actions can't be taken with ready when you've already taken one that round then you also say that standards can NEVER be taken as ready as it's already been taken up as your standard for the round by ready.
Check it again. It says normally you can only take one standard action and one move action. The implication is clear that there may be special circumstances in which you can take more than one of those. Using your standard action to perform a second Move action is an example of that giving you two move actions in a round. Ready is an example of that, since it is says you can use it to perform a Standard action though you just used one to Ready which is two Standards. Those aren't normal but Standards and Move actions aren't strictly limited.
The text for swift actions says "You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take." Unlike Standard and Move Actions, there are no special circumstances or actions that can allow you to take two swift actions in a round. You only ever get one.
I'm sorry OldSkoolRPG, I'm not seeing the distinction you are. It's NOT normally, it's in a normal turn and in a normal turn you may only take 1 standard and one swift action.
As to "regardless of what other actions you take", please look at the spell Borrowed Time. "For the duration of this spell, you gain an extra swift action you can use only during your turn." So it's 100%, totally FALSE that you can NEVER gain more than one per round. Taking that into account, there are things that can let you override the "regardless of what other actions you take" clause. Prove to me the ready action isn't one of them...
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Mechanically both of our methods do the same thing.Not really.
In a normal round, you can perform a standard action and a move action, or you can perform a full-round action. You can also perform one swift action and one or more free actions. You can always take a move action in place of a standard action.This shows that you can only take ONE standard action and one swift action in a normal round. If you say swift actions can't be taken with ready when you've already taken one that round then you also say that standards can NEVER be taken as ready as it's already been taken up as your standard for the round by ready.
Specific overrides general. Readying is specifically a standard action, and it specifically allows you to take (amongst other things) another standard action under the specified circumstances. Swift actions specifically say that regardless of what other actions you take (like, oh, say a ready action), you can only take one per turn. Nothing in the "Ready" rules override that like they do with the normal rules for standard actions.
Ready Action: A standard action that allows you to take a(nother) standard, move, swift, or free under a specific set of circumstances.
Swift Action: A type of action that is specifically limited to one per turn regardless of what other actions you take.
Mechanically both of our methods do the same thing.Not really.
In a normal round, you can perform a standard action and a move action, or you can perform a full-round action. You can also perform one swift action and one or more free actions. You can always take a move action in place of a standard action.This shows that you can only take ONE standard action and one swift action in a normal round. If you say swift actions can't be taken with ready when you've already taken one that round then you also say that standards can NEVER be taken as ready as it's already been taken up as your standard for the round by ready.Specific overrides general. Readying is specifically a standard action, and it specifically allows you to take (amongst other things) another standard action under the specified circumstances. Swift actions specifically say that regardless of what other actions you take (like, oh, say a ready action), you can only take one per turn. Nothing in the "Ready" rules override that like they do with the normal rules for standard actions.
Ready Action: A standard action that allows you to take a(nother) standard, move, swift, or free under a specific set of circumstances.
Swift Action: A type of action that is specifically limited to one per turn regardless of what other actions you take.
Refer to my last post and the Borrowed Time spell. It makes NO mention of overriding any rules and seems JUST as specific as Ready. Please explain why one allows multiple swift action and the other doesn't.