
Echoen |
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Last night, our game ground to a halt as we were all mesmerized by an unanswered question, and this needs a straightforward answer from a developer. There are dozens of threads asking this same question, and it needs to be put to rest - as it has huge implications for gameplay.
Question: Can you take a Free action outside of your turn?
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A lot of people cite Speaking as a suggestion that no, you cannot take free actions when they are not your turn unless the free action specifically says you can. But this is not an answer, and here are the implications:
1: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Attacks-of-Opportunity "Sometimes a combatant in a melee lets her guard down or takes a reckless action. In this case, combatants near her can take advantage of her lapse in defense to attack her for free. These free attacks are called attacks of opportunity."
Nowhere does it say that you can make an attack of opportunity outside of your turn; it merely says it's a free action. Of COURSE you can take an AoO outside of your turn (that's what it is for, after all), but this would contradict what the Speaking section implies.
2: Grabbing on attacks of opportunity: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules #TOC-Grab-Ex-
"If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity."
If free actions are not allowed outside of your turn, then that would mean a monster with Grab could not Grab if they hit you with an AoO.
3: Barbarian rage: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian#TOC-Rage-Ex-
A barbarian would not be able to rage outside of their turn.
Yet, Savage Intuition might suggest that you can't rage outside of your turn, since it removes the need for rage to be an action: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo--- rage-powers/savage-intuition
4: Vitalist Collective Healing: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/vitalist
"Whenever a willing member of the vitalist's collective could regain lost hit points or ability damage, the vitalist may choose to redirect any or all of that healing to one or more other willing members of the collective as a free action."
This would mean that a Vitalist could only redirect healing on his turn, which is directly contradicted in the example they provide of the ability in action.
"Example: Darius the soulknife is a willing member of Jorus the vitalist's collective. He drinks a potion of cure light wounds that would normally heal him for 6 hit points, but Jorus decides to redirect 4 of those points to himself. Darius agrees and, as a result, Darius is healed for 2 hit points, and Jorus is healed for 4. If there were more members in Jorus's collective, Jorus could spread the healing from that potion out even more as long as the sum of hit points healed was no greater than 6."
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Basically, we need a developer to say Yes or No, as this forum has so far failed to answer it in the myriad threads asking this same question.

dragonhunterq |
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1) attacks of opportunity are not 'free actions'. They are a specific triggered action that does not count against your attacks/round.
2) fully complies with the requirements of free actions.
3) There is a difference between starting a rage and being in a rage.
4) 3rd party - they break all sorts of rules. but in this instance it essentially triggers itself. When someone within the collective heals you can decide whether to re-distribute that healing. the free action part just means it doesn't impact on your other actions.
Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.
There is nothing here limiting you to free actions on your turn. It just says you need to be doing something else. You need to have an action available to you to be able to use a free action.
So for example, your barbarian with combat reflexes takes an attack of opportunity to attack a foe moving past him. He has an action (an attack of opportunity) so he can activate rage at the same time. What he cannot do is just decide to activate rage during an opponents turn whenever he wants.
In short, you cannot just activate free actions, you need a trigger or action that allows you to.

Saint_Yin |

Half of your examples are flawed, but a valid point is raised. I cannot find anything specifically stating free actions must be taken during one's own turn, though it is implied by the wording of immediate actions (as it's the only type of action declared as being able to be taken not on your own turn. Then again, "not an actions" would need to be able to be taken outside your own turn, but they also do not have wording about it.
The only example I'd stick with is Grab on attacks of opportunity. Either free actions can be legally taken outside of one's turn or Grab's grapple should be made into a not-an-action.

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I think the Performance Combat rules from Ultimate Combat strongly imply that you can't take Free actions outside your turn.
Performance Combat (PeC) has a number of things that might trigger a check to improve the attitude of the audience. Thing is, making that check is an action of some sort; either a Swift, Free or Immediate action.
Free Action or Immediate Action Checks
The following triggers allow a combatant to make a performance combat check as a free action or an immediate action. A combatant may also opt to make any of these performance combat checks as a swift action instead, and gains the benefit of performance feats when he does so. A combatant can always opt to not make a performance combat check that requires a free action or immediate action. A combatant can also spend a victory point to make any one of these performance combat checks as a free action taken when it is not the combatant's turn, which allows the combatant to make one of these performance combat checks without spending an immediate action.
This text implies that if the trigger happens during your turn, you can act on it as a Free action, but if it happens outside your turn, you have to burn an Immediate action to make the check.

Echoen |
Thank you all for your commentary, and I'm excited to have this reviewed, but I must underline one important aspect here:
99% of this discussion has already been had in this forum, to no conclusion
This is specifically a call for a developer to answer, as the current game documentation does not answer this question explicitly.
While we all could happily engage in another thread of "What's the answer?" the truth is it's been tried, many times before. Just do a search for "Free Actions" and you'll find too many threads that ask this question and don't provide a clear answer.

Under A Bleeding Sun |

1) AOOS are not free actions.
2) This one is in the air. There was a big thread on it 6 months ago or so, and while some people vehemently believed one way or the other, I saw no clear answer there. I believe that raw is you don't get special attacks on aoo's. RAI is less clear.
3) A barbarian cannot start a rage outside of his turn, there is even a rage power or feat that allows that, but he can start a rage on his turn and be raging while on someone else's turn.
4) It's a free action so he can only redirect the healing on his turn. I am not sure if this is the intent or not, but dream scarred press consistently releases solid content so they probably have a good reason.
I wouldn't expect them to answer any besides number 2, as the others all seem very clear.

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This is specifically a call for a developer to answer, as the current game documentation does not answer this question explicitly.
Your best bet would be to post it in the Ask Mark Seifter thread and see if you can get it on his radar for eventually FAQ.

RumpinRufus |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

You may not take a free action (besides speaking) on anyone else's turn unless you can take another action at that time.
Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.
So, if you make an AoO, you can take free actions at that time, because you are taking another action.
If you are not able to make another action, however, you cannot make a free action on someone else's turn.

RumpinRufus |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |

There shouldn't be any confusion. No FAQ necessary.
The fact that speech is explicitly called out as a free action that you can take even when it isn't your turn shows that normally, you can only take free actions on your turn.
There is not any case in which it is ambiguous whether or not you can take free actions. Either you take some other action and can take free actions along with it, or you cannot take the free action (except talking.)

In My Humble Opinion |

There shouldn't be any confusion. No FAQ necessary.
The fact that speech is explicitly called out as a free action that you can take even when it isn't your turn shows that normally, you can only take free actions on your turn.
There is not any case in which it is ambiguous whether or not you can take free actions. Either you take some other action and can take free actions along with it, or you cannot take the free action (except talking.)
This

runslikeawelshman |

There shouldn't be any confusion. No FAQ necessary.
The fact that speech is explicitly called out as a free action that you can take even when it isn't your turn shows that normally, you can only take free actions on your turn.
There is not any case in which it is ambiguous whether or not you can take free actions. Either you take some other action and can take free actions along with it, or you cannot take the free action (except talking.)
There are more than enough exceptions to cast doubt over this issue, several of which are mentioned above and many more in Nefreet's linked thread.
Here's another: the Preacher Inquisitor archetype's Determination ability. The Warning option is a free action that could only be taken on another character's turn, yet it is not explicitly stated as being able to be used outside of your own turn.

fretgod99 |

1. That ability calls out something that occurs on another person's turn. The implication is pretty clear that it is also an exception.
2. The inquisitor is speaking, though there is an added benefit.
3. It's possible it should be an immediate action, as the defense option right before the warning option.
The most direct answer though is 1. The language of the ability clearly demonstrates the intent that it function outside of the player's turn.

graystone |

The turn rule prevents free actions when you could not take an action.
If you can take any action you can also take free actions. If you cannot take any action you cannot take a free action.
Then why can't you speak and and use another free action whenever you wish? A free action is "another action".
"You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally." I haven't seen anything that leads me to think free action (speak) isn't "another action".

Undone |
Undone wrote:The turn rule prevents free actions when you could not take an action.
If you can take any action you can also take free actions. If you cannot take any action you cannot take a free action.
Then why can't you speak and and use another free action whenever you wish? A free action is "another action".
"You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally." I haven't seen anything that leads me to think free action (speak) isn't "another action".
You can't take other actions normally while not your turn.
As a result you can take a free action when you could normally take an action of any kind. You can't take actions normally when it isn't your turn.

graystone |

graystone wrote:Undone wrote:The turn rule prevents free actions when you could not take an action.
If you can take any action you can also take free actions. If you cannot take any action you cannot take a free action.
Then why can't you speak and and use another free action whenever you wish? A free action is "another action".
"You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally." I haven't seen anything that leads me to think free action (speak) isn't "another action".
You can't take other actions normally while not your turn.
As a result you can take a free action when you could normally take an action of any kind. You can't take actions normally when it isn't your turn.
You 100% missed my point.
You can speak though as a free action when it's NOT your turn. Why can't you take other free actions along with THAT out of turn action? That action is "another action" after all.
"Speak: In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn't your turn."

Undone |
Undone wrote:graystone wrote:Undone wrote:The turn rule prevents free actions when you could not take an action.
If you can take any action you can also take free actions. If you cannot take any action you cannot take a free action.
Then why can't you speak and and use another free action whenever you wish? A free action is "another action".
"You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally." I haven't seen anything that leads me to think free action (speak) isn't "another action".
You can't take other actions normally while not your turn.
As a result you can take a free action when you could normally take an action of any kind. You can't take actions normally when it isn't your turn.
You 100% missed my point.
You can speak though as a free action when it's NOT your turn. Why can't you take other free actions along with THAT out of turn action? That action is "another action" after all.
"Speak: In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn't your turn."
Free actions do not confer additional free actions. Speaking is explicitly called out as being allowed on not your turn. As such you can do it.

graystone |

Free actions do not confer additional free actions. Speaking is explicitly called out as being allowed on not your turn. As such you can do it.
Really? I must have missed that. What I saw was "You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally." Could you give me a rules quote that says 'Free actions do not confer additional free actions.'? Or are you just assuming that "another action" somehow excludes free actions?

Rikkan |
Free actions don't take any time at all, though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn.
You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action.
Seems clear you can only take free actions on your turn.

dragonhunterq |

Trying to use the rules on speaking to grant other free actions is rules-lawyering of the most egregious kind. Allowing speech to open the door to other free actions would completely invalidate the limitations placed on free actions.Unfortunately RAW I can't find anything that would prevent you from using other free actions off of another free action such as that granted by the preachers ability. Speech should be a specified exception.
Because essentially the limit on free actions is that, unlike immediate actions, you need something that gives you priority (to use a Magic term), an opening that allows you to act other than the free action itself. Immediate actions you can just say 'ok now I do X'.
On special abilities, don't forget that specific beats general. And special abilities frequently create situations that 'break' the basic rules. So for the preacher (and the vitalist) the ability itself creates a trigger that allows you to use a free action outside your turn, but only when a specific situation occurs.
The FAQ highlighted above on Snap Shot clearly gives some official support that some free actions at least can be performed outside your turn.

graystone |

prd wrote:Free actions don't take any time at all, though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn.prd wrote:You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action.Seems clear you can only take free actions on your turn.
What do those quotes have to do to when you take free actions?

graystone |

Trying to use the rules on speaking to grant other free actions is rules-lawyering of the most egregious kind. Allowing speech to open the door to other free actions would completely invalidate the limitations placed on free actions.Unfortunately RAW I can't find anything that would prevent you from using other free actions off of another free action such as that granted by the preachers ability. Speech should be a specified exception.
Well this IS the rules section, so RAW is the answer. For me I see no real reason for a limitation on free actions. You take a 20th level zen archer with snapshot and they're making 9 free actions just for attacks during their turn and maybe that many for AoO's out of turn. A fail to see how 'opening the door' to allowing others to make free actions out of turn causes any issues. What 'exploits' are you going to have with out of turn free actions?

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Undone wrote:Free actions do not confer additional free actions. Speaking is explicitly called out as being allowed on not your turn. As such you can do it.Really? I must have missed that. What I saw was "You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally." Could you give me a rules quote that says 'Free actions do not confer additional free actions.'? Or are you just assuming that "another action" somehow excludes free actions?
Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.
"Another action" from a free action, i.e. a non free action.
A free action don't confer the ability to make free actions, "another action" mean a different kind of action.
Rikkan |
Rikkan wrote:What do those quotes have to do to when you take free actions?prd wrote:Free actions don't take any time at all, though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn.prd wrote:You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action.Seems clear you can only take free actions on your turn.
The bold parts. But if you want I'll add this:
Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn.
Especially note this: "You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action." + "However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn."

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This is the rules section, so explaining how I read and apply the rules in my game is a valid answer :)
The only free actions I allow off-turn are speaking (since it explicitly allows it), and free actions you need to make other off-turn abilities work (Frex, drawing an arrow to make an attack of opportunity with your bow, since otherwise that ability is nigh unusable).
For everything else, I start with "no off-turn use" and use my best judgement for if/when I should make an exception.

graystone |

Rikkan, I don't see how anything you wrote has anything to do with what we're talking about. We aren't talking about a swift action and 'may be limits' doesn't tell me anything.
Diego Rossi: It states another action and doesn't describe what that action has to be. Speak is an action that is called out as being able to be used out of turn. You need some extra words to make it say that the extra action can't be speak. It's an action separate from the other free actions you want to use with it's own rules. If you have some ruling on what action the "another action" is, please post it.
Benchak the Nightstalker, my comment was to the 'rules-lawyering' part. :) To the rest it reads to me that you JUST have to have another action to use normal free actions and speak is one of those 'off turn use' actions/abilities. If the whole thing hinges on "You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally" then it's all on the "another action" and it never states that that can't be another free action such as speak.

Rynjin |

Well this IS the rules section, so RAW is the answer.
One sec I'ma break down why this is dumb and you should take the devs' advice by reading with your brain engaged.
An action is a discrete measurement of time during a round of combat. Using abilities, casting spells, and making attacks all require actions to perform. There are a number of different kinds of actions, such as a standard action, move action, swift action, free action, and full-round action.
Check that out. Here, lemme point out a key phrase.
"An action is a discrete measurement of time during a round of combat."
Would you look at that. You can only take actions during combat.
Hope you never try to cast a spell. Or move. Or do anything outside of combat, ever.
It's the RAW, you have to follow the RAW even when it is very very clearly not the intent of said rule.
Now, try to follow the internal logic of the game instead of beating your head against a wall created from sheer willful stupidity, and things become much clearer.
When do you take actions in combat?
During your turn ("that character performs his entire round's worth of actions.").
What are the exceptions? Attacks of Opportunity, and Special Initiative Actions (namely Readying and Delaying). In addition to these broader examples, Speaking is a free action that can be taken when it's not your turn (already we could stop here because anyone can tell that if something is an implicit exception to the rule, then that obviously means everything else which is NOT an exception follows the general rule of actions only taking place on your turn when in combat, but let's continue down the rabbit hole).
What are Attacks of Opportunity? "An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack" (one that is not taken on your turn because of an exception in the rules that allows you to make said attack given certain conditions).
Is an attack an action? Yes.
Is an Attack of Opportunity an attack? Also yes.
Is an Attack of Opportunity then an action? Yes again.
Therefore, you can perform free actions on an attack of opportunity (" You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally.").
This is a simple logical chain that pretty much negates all claims of "Ooh but it invalidates Archery AoOs and whatnot so you can definitely take Free actions because that's a contradiction of sorts". It's not a contradiction.
Up to this point we've effectively annihilated any point the OP might have made. SO let's move on to other people's claims.
Now, can you chain a Free action into a Free action? There is one big things which suggest no in the very description.
"You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally."
This can be read one of two ways: You can perform a Free action while performing any other action, regardless of what type. Or, you can perform a free action while performing another action (I.E. an action that is NOT a Free action).
I would lean towards the more conservative interpretation. It doesn't make logical sense that speaking would then allow you to perform another action when not speaking would not (read with your brain engaged). There is very little within the rules that this affects, and really only serves to shut down things like special abilities which can be activated as a Free action but are meant to be limited to your turn, such as a Red Mantis Assassin becoming Ethereal when it's not their turn in reaction to something that happened after they ceased acting. It disrupts the normal flow of the round (each character's actions take place on their own turn only, except specific exceptions noted above, and Immediate actions).
So:
Grab on an AoO? Yes.
Snapshot arrow drawing on an AoO? Yes.
Becoming Ethereal in reaction to a new threat appearing off your turn? No.
Beginning Raging when it's not your turn (note, it does not, as the OP suggests, take a Free action to maintain Rage)? No. Further backed up by the existence of the Headband of Havoc which allows Raging as an Immediate action.
There is little in the rules that backs up the "Free actions at any time" interpretation, and quite a lot that does when you take into account how various rules interact.
Much of this game is reading BETWEEN the lines, not picking one and ignoring everything around it.
There's also this that's more pedantry than anything but also supports the point a bit: Free actions "don't take any time at all".
So, how do you perform an action WHILE performing an action that takes no time?
There is no lapse of time between beginning a Free action and ending a Free action. It is instantaneous. You can't take another action while doing it, because doing it takes no time. There is no "during" there is simply [action start][/action end] with no time passed.
So you can't perform another Free action while speaking because there is no chance to perform another Free action while taking an action that takes no time. You would have to start and end both simultaneously, but since neither takes any time at all and one must be taken while performing the other, this is physically impossible. In starting one, you have already finished it. There's no time, therefore, to start another action (even one that takes no time at all) WHILE you are performing said action.

Rikkan |
Rikkan, I don't see how anything you wrote has anything to do with what we're talking about. We aren't talking about a swift action and 'may be limits' doesn't tell me anything.
Did you miss the part I used bold on?
And swift actions are relevant.
You can take a swift action whenever you can take a free action. Thus if you can't take a swift action when it is not your turn, you can't take a free action when it is not your turn either.
So if you agree you can't take a swift action when it is not your turn, I assume you agree you can't take a free action when it is not your turn either?

graystone |

graystone wrote:Rikkan, I don't see how anything you wrote has anything to do with what we're talking about. We aren't talking about a swift action and 'may be limits' doesn't tell me anything.Which is why I'm talking about free actions and I'm not talking about may be limits.
Please look at your quotes then look at what you highlighted. What do they have to do with free action limits? Swift actions... And no free action limits... Again if you have a point you're going to have to just come out and say it with something actually about free actions.
I can play this game too. "Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action." SO it's more restricted than a free action. Still had nothing to do with free actions not on your turn...

graystone |

graystone wrote:Rikkan, I don't see how anything you wrote has anything to do with what we're talking about. We aren't talking about a swift action and 'may be limits' doesn't tell me anything.Did you miss the part I used bold on?
And swift actions are relevant.
You can take a swift action whenever you can take a free action. Thus if you can't take a swift action when it is not your turn, you can't take a free action when it is not your turn either.So if you agree you can't take a swift action when it is not your turn, I assume you agree you can't take a free action when it is not your turn either?
NOTHING YOU BOLDED IS RELEVENT! swift actions refer to free actions plus have limitations of their own. Please find some quotes on free actions because I found nothing from your posts useful.
Rynjin:
"An action is a discrete measurement of time during a round of combat."
+
"Speak: In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn't your turn."
+
"You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally"
The only way this doesn't add up is if you say speak isn't it's own action separate from other actions. It may seem logical to say free action aren't meant to be included and take so little time that it take no time but that'd be a non action. An AoO doesn't take much more than a free action and you can add free to them. In fact speaking a few sentences could easily take longer than a single AoO if you are arguing logic.
So on a RAW reading I'm not convinced and on a logic level I'm not convinced. Reading a paragraph is FAR from the "instantaneous" action you describe.
Here are a few sentences right from the Immediate Actions section. I know I can reload a bow WAY before the normal person would finish reading them aloud.
"Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn. Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell can be cast at any time."
Also:
"Not an Action:They literally don't take any time at all to do"
VS
"Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort."
"Speak: In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn't your turn. Speaking more than a few sentences is generally beyond the limit of a free action."

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I think Rikkan nailed it.
1) The rules clearly state that you're allowed to make a Swift action whenever you're allowed to make a Free action. Therefore, if at any moment you're NOT allowed to take a Swift action, you also can't take Free actions at that moment.
2) The rules go on to state Immediate actions are like Swift actions, except they can also be taken outside of your turn. Therefore, Swift actions cannot be taken when it is not your turn.
Putting 1 and 2 together means you can't take Free actions outside of your turn.
Suppose that you could take Free actions out of your turn. Then you would be allowed to take Swift actions out of your turn, because you're allowed to take Swift actions any time you're allowed to take Free actions. According to the rule on Immediate actions, those are different from Swift actions because you can't take Swift actions outside of your turn but you take Immediate actions. This leads to a contradiction: you can and can't take Swift actions outside your turn. Therefore the assumption that Free actions out of turn are allowed, must be wrong.
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Now, this leads to some problems. Again archery is the culprit.
Reflexive Shot (Ex): At 9th level, a zen archer can make attacks of opportunity with arrows from his bow. The monk still threatens squares he could reach with unarmed strikes, and can still only make one attack of opportunity per round (unless he has Combat Reflexes). This ability replaces improved evasion.
The bolded text suggests that a ZAM could shoot multiple arrows as AoOs per round. However, drawing new arrows is a free action and we've proven above that you can't do that out of turn. So you can't actually shoot arrows as AoOs.
That looks like someone messed up. However, there are a few ways around this;
A) you could draw an arrow at the end of your turn, to be able to make at least one AoO.
B) as a ZAM you still have Improved Unarmed Strike, so if you have Combat Reflexes you could make the rest of the AoOs with kicks.
C) a bow with Endless Ammunition automagically draws your arrows for you, so you don't need to spend free actions out of turn on it.
I don't actually like any of these three solutions, and I actually think that the writer of the ZAM just plain forgot about this somewhat obscure problem with free actions. Just like the writer of the Sohei accidentally dropped the clause from weapons and armor saying that you can't flurry in light armor, thereby switching that power on. These kinds of mistakes happen.
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My thinking on the RAI as opposed to the (somewhat clunky) RAW of this is the following.
I) Independent Free actions can only be performed on your turn (unless they say otherwise, such as Speaking).
II) Free actions that are required by another action that you're allowed to make outside your turn (like the ZAM shooting AoOs) are allowed out of turn.
III) When you do something out of turn that's allowed, like make an AoO with a natural weapon, and that triggers the right to a specific Free action (like a Grab), you're allowed to perform that specific Free action out of turn.
IV) So-called "No Action" actions can be performed at any time; they only pop up in the rules when a writer clearly intends Free actions to only happen during your turn, like in the Performance Combat rules.

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Rikkan, I don't see how anything you wrote has anything to do with what we're talking about. We aren't talking about a swift action and 'may be limits' doesn't tell me anything.
Diego Rossi: It states another action and doesn't describe what that action has to be. Speak is an action that is called out as being able to be used out of turn. You need some extra words to make it say that the extra action can't be speak. It's an action separate from the other free actions you want to use with it's own rules. If you have some ruling on what action the "another action" is, please post it.
Benchak the Nightstalker, my comment was to the 'rules-lawyering' part. :) To the rest it reads to me that you JUST have to have another action to use normal free actions and speak is one of those 'off turn use' actions/abilities. If the whole thing hinges on "You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally" then it's all on the "another action" and it never states that that can't be another free action such as speak.
Speak is a free action, the free actions say that you can make them together with "Another action", impaling something different from the free actions of which they are already speaking.
See what happen if we substitute free action to another action in that rule, as you are trying to do:
"Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking free actions normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM."
Circular logic. You can take a free action when you can take a free action.
It is fairly clear that when the developer are speaking of "another action" they mean a non free action.

Rikkan |
NOTHING YOU BOLDED IS RELEVENT! swift actions refer to free actions plus have limitations of their own. Please find some quotes on free actions because I found nothing from your posts useful.
what part of my post did you not understand? I might be able to explain it in different words if you tell me what part you don't understand.
Or try Ascalaphus' explanation.The bolded text suggests that a ZAM could shoot multiple arrows as AoOs per round. However, drawing new arrows is a free action and we've proven above that you can't do that out of turn. So you can't actually shoot arrows as AoOs.
While it is not 100% RAW, I feel that slightly expanding the FAQ about snapshot to expand to other such options, is the best answer.
Snap Shot: Can a character with Snap Shot (page 119) and Combat Reflexes make multiple attacks of opportunity with a ranged weapon, assuming that loading the ranged weapon is a free action?
Yes. As long as you can reload your weapon with a free action you can reload your weapon as part of the ranged attack attack of opportunity you are making with the Snap Shot feat.

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The trouble stems from the fact that, on many occasions, writers use the phrase 'free action' when they really intend the effect of 'not an action'.
Nocking an arrow is the example of 'not an action', but drawing an arrow has been a free action since 3.0, where the action system first appeared. At that time, it wasn't possible to attack with a bow outside your own turn, so the difference didn't matter. What they really intended was that drawing an arrow doesn't take any of your actions and can be done whenever you shoot an arrow from a bow. Therefore, drawing an arrow should always have been defined as 'not an action, but part of the attack with the bow', just like nocking the arrow.
How do we know this? Snap Shot. This was clearly written with the understanding that you can draw an arrow whenever you can attack with a bow, and thought it so obvious that it never occurred to them that the free action drawing time would prevent the ability from working, hence the need for the FAQ which let it work, and inadvertently makes drawing an arrow a free action that can be taken outside your own turn, either in conjunction with Snap Shot (definitely) or anytime you attack with a bow outside your turn (almost certainly).
In the debate about the required action for changing grip on a weapon, from holding it in one hand to holding it in two (or vice versa), I favoured the 'not an action but part of the attack' option, but predicted (correctly) that the devs would define it as a free action, greatly affecting AoOs. Yet I know that you change your grip during every attack as part of the attack in real life, and the game would be better for that.
I don't actually think the devs even considered 'not an action', because I think that they casually and inaccurately use the phrase 'free action' even when they imagine something as 'not an action, but part of they attack'. Don't believe me? Then why is 'grab' a free action rather than 'not an action' for those monsters whose bite automatically gives them a grab?

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@Malachi: I agree with your analysis of where the problem comes from, but I do think at least several writers are convinced that you can't normally take free actions out of your turn. In addition to the part I took from the CRB earlier, consider this part of the Performance Combat rules in UCombat:
A combatant can spend a victory point to make a free or immediate action performance combat check as no action, allowing the combatant to make the check when it is not the combatant's turn without spending an immediate action.
So "no action" really is an idea that exists in minds of the writers of some of the core books.

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Oh, the rules really are that you can't take free actions outside your turn (except speaking and, post Snap Shot FAQ, drawing an arrow). And there are those free actions which are intended to abide by that restriction.
But there are other free actions whose intent was really 'not an action'.
Trouble is, while we can use our thinky bits to tell one from the other, this isn't RAW, and it's not an exact science.

Echoen |
This is the insane debate I was trying to avoid. Just look at how this thread has turned into another flame war.
Right, wrong, I don't care. We need a dev to put a nail in this.
Someone pull some strings or something, or else this will be one more massive thread on a vital rules question that ends in no consensus.

Dave Justus |

It seems pretty clear to me. The general rule is that, with the exception of speaking, you can't take a free action unless you are also taking some other type of action. Usually, but not always, this means during your turn.
There are other time though that you can act. One example of that being drawing an arrow during an attack of opportunity with snap shot. Taking an attack of opportunity is the action, drawing the arrow is a free action. Similarly a monster with grab would be taking an action with an attack of opportunity (an action) allowing him to use his grab.
There are a few abilities out there, like the above listed Preacher ability or the Vitalist in the original post that specify other times you can use those abilities as a free action. Specific overrides general, so yes, they break the general rule that you can't take free actions when you don't have another action, and they spell out exactly when you can do so (an opponent is going to be hit, a ally gets healing etc.)

OldSkoolRPG |

Oh, the rules really are that you can't take free actions outside your turn (except speaking and, post Snap Shot FAQ, drawing an arrow). And there are those free actions which are intended to abide by that restriction.
But there are other free actions whose intent was really 'not an action'.
Trouble is, while we can use our thinky bits to tell one from the other, this isn't RAW, and it's not an exact science.
I am stealing the term "thinky bits" lol

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Someone pull some strings or something, or else this will be one more massive thread on a vital rules question that ends in no consensus.
A "massive thread" isn't a bad thing. In fact, the Designers encourage it. It's better than having the same debate spread across multiple threads. For that reason, we should take this discussion to the thread I linked earlier.
But, at the same time, this question isn't more important than the other FAQ requests that are pending. We also need answers to whether or not you can double dip stat bonuses, or how exactly size increases and damage dice scale (both each 200 and 400 FAQ hits, respectively).
In order to generate similar results for this discussion we should focus our attention on one "massive thread" =).

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I wouldn't call this a flame war. It's more like a campfire with marshmellows.
I think we've conclusively found a part of the CRB that says you can't take them out of turn, and then quite a few abilities written assuming that you can. The obvious conclusion is that in practice there's no consistent rule, just a herd of exceptions.
With the three rules of thumb I posted earlier in the thread you should be able to make rulings that have the appearance of sanity and common sense. They're consistent with all the FAQs and rulings up to now.