Hopefully others can use this thread to clarify questions arising in this adventure. If you happen to see another thread, please link post a link in this one to try and keep things tied together.
Chapter 1: The Bastards of Erebus
Chapter 2: The Sixfold Trial
Chapter 3: What Lies in Dust
Chapter 4: The Infernal Syndrome
Chapter 5: Mother of Flies
Chapter 6: The Twice-Damned Prince
Ready for any questions when the Trial begins you fine fellows...
How obliging of you Mr. Pett.
*tips hat*
Ready for any questions when the Trial begins you fine fellows...Who's the Singing Lady?
Someone the PCs will be seeing a lot of:)
The history of the play is a bit confusing. Today's blog post says it was written more than a hundred years ago (and the author was alive 200 years ago). Yet the House of Thrune has only ruled Cheliax for around 70 years, and it was their rule that led to the use of the "para" prefix for nobility.
Creative Director
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The history of the play is a bit confusing. Today's blog post says it was written more than a hundred years ago (and the author was alive 200 years ago). Yet the House of Thrune has only ruled Cheliax for around 70 years, and it was their rule that led to the use of the "para" prefix for nobility.
While the play was written before the House of Thrune seized control of Cheliax... the House of Thrune existed before Aroden's death, and was a powerful noble family long before that. In addition, now that the House of Thrune is in charge, they've done a REALLY good job at "rewriting" history; destroying documents, changing documents, all sorts of things. In other words, the use of "para" for some nobility certainly predates Aroden's fall.
My impression had been that the nobility of Cheliax had been pretty much pro-Aroden before he died. Obviously there would be worship of other gods, but a noble family fully dedicated to Asmodeus was not something I suspected. I would have guessed "no way".
Not that it is bad. Just different than I had gathered.
Did House Thrune already have Hellknights?
Also, if House Thrune was the Asmodeus worshiping House, it seems this play is questioning them, and thus casts a negative light on the Royal family. Shouldn't the Order of the Rack be rounding up everyone who takes part in this treasonous false history? (Particularly since it happens to truly be false in this case)
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Creative Director
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My impression had been that the nobility of Cheliax had been pretty much pro-Aroden before he died. Obviously there would be worship of other gods, but a noble family fully dedicated to Asmodeus was not something I suspected. I would have guessed "no way".
Not that it is bad. Just different than I had gathered.
Did House Thrune already have Hellknights?
Also, if House Thrune was the Asmodeus worshiping House, it seems this play is questioning them, and thus casts a negative light on the Royal family. Shouldn't the Order of the Rack be rounding up everyone who takes part in this treasonous false history? (Particularly since it happens to truly be false in this case)
Hellknights existed before the fall of Aroden. And Hellknights are their own organization, a mercenary company, basically, that doesn't actually owe any allegiance at all to the House of Thrune. In fact, many Hellknights often come into conflict with the House of Thrune; there's a lot of this type of conflict happening in the last half of Council of Thieves, in fact. Hellknights are mostly focused on keeping the law—they could honestly care less where the law comes from or who's writing them, as long as those laws are upheld.
And the House of Thrune certainly did exist before Aroden's death. They still used devils as tools and looked up to them, but not so openly.
Basically, there was a strong undercurrent of diabolism in parts of Cheliax before Aroden's death and the civil war; it was those events that enabled the focused and highly trained diabolists to seize the chance and become the new leaders. The war didn't create them, though.
But yeah; we'll be revealing more information about the Hellknights in Pathfinder #27 and #28; they're not necessarily friends to Thrune.
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I noticed a couple of issues with Sian Daemodus in the Asmodean Knot. I think she was originally statted as a 5th level rogue/2nd level (not 3rd) shadowdancer. Her CR is 7 and there is no mention in the Special Abilities section of her being able to summon a shadow or cast illusions, both of which she would be able to do as a third-level shadowdancer. No mention is made in her Tactics section of these abilities either. Not a big deal, but her HD and abilities should probably be reduced accordingly. I might restat her entirely in a future post if procrastination doesn't set in. Additionally, she shouldn't be able to cast darkness as a spell-like ability; her Fiendish Heritage feat has resulted in her trading this off for the DR 2/silver.
Once again, my hat is off to Sir Richard Pett, SKR and the Paizo crew. This AP is everything I could have wanted for the inauguration of Pathfinder as a unified system. Although, as a recovering Planescape junkie, I'm a sucker for any adventure even involving tieflings, let alone a story arc featuring them as the main antagonists.
I noticed a couple of issues with Sian Daemodus in the Asmodean Knot. I think she was originally statted as a 5th level rogue/2nd level (not 3rd) shadowdancer. Her CR is 7 and there is no mention in the Special Abilities section of her being able to summon a shadow or cast illusions, both of which she would be able to do as a third-level shadowdancer. No mention is made in her Tactics section of these abilities either. Not a big deal, but her HD and abilities should probably be reduced accordingly. I might restat her entirely in a future post if procrastination doesn't set in. Additionally, she shouldn't be able to cast darkness as a spell-like ability; her Fiendish Heritage feat has resulted in her trading this off for the DR 2/silver.
Once again, my hat is off to Sir Richard Pett, SKR and the Paizo crew. This AP is everything I could have wanted for the inauguration of Pathfinder as a unified system. Although, as a recovering Planescape junkie, I'm a sucker for any adventure even involving tieflings, let alone a story arc featuring them as the main antagonists.
Glad you're liking the AP Effigy, I am pleased with the way Sixfold has come out, although it has the potential to be one of those love/hate things as some groups will love the theatre and role-playing and others will want to cut to the action. I hope the Asdmodean Knot and its twists and turns provides a little something for everyone, and I'm really looking forward to more feedback on the adventure.
Rich
I noticed a couple of issues with Sian Daemodus in the Asmodean Knot. I think she was originally statted as a 5th level rogue/2nd level (not 3rd) shadowdancer. Her CR is 7 and there is no mention in the Special Abilities section of her being able to summon a shadow or cast illusions, both of which she would be able to do as a third-level shadowdancer. No mention is made in her Tactics section of these abilities either. Not a big deal, but her HD and abilities should probably be reduced accordingly. I might restat her entirely in a future post if procrastination doesn't set in. Additionally, she shouldn't be able to cast darkness as a spell-like ability; her Fiendish Heritage feat has resulted in her trading this off for the DR 2/silver.
Once again, my hat is off to Sir Richard Pett, SKR and the Paizo crew. This AP is everything I could have wanted for the inauguration of Pathfinder as a unified system. Although, as a recovering Planescape junkie, I'm a sucker for any adventure even involving tieflings, let alone a story arc featuring them as the main antagonists.
Glad you're liking the AP Effigy, I am pleased with the way Sixfold has come out, although it has the potential to be one of those love/hate things as some groups will love the theatre and role-playing and others will want to cut to the action. I hope the Asmodean Knot and its twists and turns provides a little something for everyone, and I'm really looking forward to more feedback on the adventure.
Rich
I expect to contribute such feedback within the next month or so, Sir Pett. ^_^
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For the record my group have just finished reading throught the play and we had a blast. After a minute of just reading the lines, everyone soon got into character. Me, being the GM, played Haanderthan. I found myself yelling across the table, pointing, and waving my arms around. Good stuff.
Now I have a few questions concerning the Knot. Not sure if I should spoilerize this but just in case.
Any ideas on running Szasmir? I have a feeling my group is going to see him locked up in the cell and say "oh well, let's move on". I know he has Anvengens Edge, but I don't think that's enough for my group to even open the door. At that point, they know nothing about it. I was thinking about having the dimensional lock start to fail giving him a chance to escape and maybe attack the party elsewhere in the Knot. Thoughts? Ideas?
Also wanted to say that we are having a ball with this adventure. Thanks.
For the record my group have just finished reading throught the play and we had a blast. After a minute of just reading the lines, everyone soon got into character. Me, being the GM, played Haanderthan. I found myself yelling across the table, pointing, and waving my arms around. Good stuff.
Now I have a few questions concerning the Knot. Not sure if I should spoilerize this but just in case.
** spoiler omitted **
Also wanted to say that we are having a ball with this adventure. Thanks.
Huzzah!
OK, at the risk of not preparing the present Mrs Pett's Thai meal I'll have to be as quick but complete as I can.
I'd intended the stairs to be endless rather like an escher drawing, so my take is you keep going down the stairs or keep going up, passing B4 on the way each time. There would be no need to jump to gain access
For B9, my room, like a couple herein, was based upon a twilight zone episode - this one being the howling man, where the prisoner begs for release - in the original draft he appears as a pious man claiming to be wrongly imprisoned by the devils herein. It's worth watching that episode if you can to get an angle on the prison scene therein which is an absolute masterpiece of television. Of course the occupant as written has a very useful bargaining tool at his disposal to tempt others to enter.
But the Asmodean Knot still manages to give me a headache, and I'm sorry if it has a similar effect upon anyone else.
Rich
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I was just wondering how other GMs have or are going to handle the runecurse. My first question would be whether it emits magic? If it does my group will keep it no matter what it has on it. If they can't read it they will save it until they get it to someone who can. Their luck will be they will just attack and kill Livia and then not know exactly what to do with the thing. A Bone Devil at this point would tear them apart.
And that's kind of cool, since it plays upon player greed rather than game mechanics to make a curse "sticky."
While a runecursed object can be a magic item or a mundane item, the more I think of it, the more I suspect that it should radiate some sort of magic. It is, after all, working as a sort of homing beacon for a demon or devil. If you think that having it radiate magic would increase the chances of your group figuring out what it REALLY does, then go for it. If you think that having it radiate magic would just result in the group putting it safely away to not think about until after the adventure is over, then you shouldn't do this, cause that's sort of cheating on the GM's behalf, I think. Remember, of course, that in the Pathfinder RPG, you don't need magic to identify items and runecurses; you can figure those out with skill checks.
The runecurse DOES have a high probability of causing a TPK if you inflict it on a party that has no idea of what it is and has no way to get rid of it. If I were you, I'd consider my party's temperment and play style very carefully before using a runecurse in play; it's included in the adventure as a nod to the old M. R. James story "Casting the Runes" (which became the basis for a movie called "Night of the Demon" or "Curse of the Demon" depending on if it's the USA or UK version, and more recently as an inspiration for Sam Raimi's movie "Drag me to Hell") and as a new way to vex PCs. It's not meant to be a no-chance-to-avoid deathtrap, which is what it could be if you inflict it on a party that has no capacity or drive to figure it out or get rid of it.
It's a tricky part of the adventure, and if you feel it'd unfairly TPK your group, you should absolutely cut it from the adventure.
Great job on this adventure, guys! I especially appreciate how it blends roleplaying with combat while, at the same time, not being in a traditional dungeon.
I do have one question about the play itself. I'm only asking this because my players are going to ask me. If Larazod and friends are on trial, why do they have all of their weapons and gear?
I realize that in the past productions they gave them arms in order to keep the play going longer before the actors were killed. But in terms of the "world" of the play, why are they armed while being on trial?
Anyone have thoughts about this?
-Bsus
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Great job on this adventure, guys! I especially appreciate how it blends roleplaying with combat while, at the same time, not being in a traditional dungeon.I do have one question about the play itself. I'm only asking this because my players are going to ask me. If Larazod and friends are on trial, why do they have all of their weapons and gear?
I realize that in the past productions they gave them arms in order to keep the play going longer before the actors were killed. But in terms of the "world" of the play, why are they armed while being on trial?
Anyone have thoughts about this?
-Bsus
Because it's a necessary stretching of realism in the game itself to provide the decadent nobles with an opportunity to see local mercenaries fight monsters. The play isn't intended to be a historically accurate documentary, but the equivalent of a modern action movie, really.
Great job on this adventure, guys! I especially appreciate how it blends roleplaying with combat while, at the same time, not being in a traditional dungeon.I do have one question about the play itself. I'm only asking this because my players are going to ask me. If Larazod and friends are on trial, why do they have all of their weapons and gear?
I realize that in the past productions they gave them arms in order to keep the play going longer before the actors were killed. But in terms of the "world" of the play, why are they armed while being on trial?
Anyone have thoughts about this?
-Bsus
Huzzah! Thanks for those kind words.
You raise an interesting question. I know James has chimmed in already but I thought you'd be interested to know that the unspeakable one and myself did have a discussion about the PCs having to take on the traditional arms of the players, and having a set list of items with the play, some of which of course would be cursed. We did also talk at length about the PCs going in unarmed but both takes didn't work for us for this paricular adventure, although they would add another horrible angle if you were feeling that way inclined:)
Rich
Great job on this adventure, guys! I especially appreciate how it blends roleplaying with combat while, at the same time, not being in a traditional dungeon.I do have one question about the play itself. I'm only asking this because my players are going to ask me. If Larazod and friends are on trial, why do they have all of their weapons and gear?
I realize that in the past productions they gave them arms in order to keep the play going longer before the actors were killed. But in terms of the "world" of the play, why are they armed while being on trial?
Anyone have thoughts about this?
-Bsus
Huzzah! Thanks for those kind words.
You raise an interesting question. I know James has chimmed in already but I thought you'd be interested to know that the unspeakable one and myself did have a discussion about the PCs having to take on the traditional arms of the players, and having a set list of items with the play, some of which of course would be cursed. We did also talk at length about the PCs going in unarmed but both takes didn't work for us for this paricular adventure, although they would add another horrible angle if you were feeling that way inclined:)
Rich
Hmmmmm.....Must resist urge to be mean to my players....
Seriously though, I think I'll try to come up with a way to limit the PCs equipment. Perhaps suggesting that (as their characters in the play) they've been brought directly from a battle or ambush to the trial carrying only their arms and a few baubles.
I appreciate the reply on my question. Keep up the great work with these kinds of adventures.
-Bsus
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Hmmmmm.....Must resist urge to be mean to my players....
Seriously though, I think I'll try to come up with a way to limit the PCs equipment. Perhaps suggesting that (as their characters in the play) they've been brought directly from a battle or ambush to the trial carrying only their arms and a few baubles.
I appreciate the reply on my question. Keep up the great work with these kinds of adventures.
-Bsus
But remember... during the Cornucopia, the PCs are allowed to attend in costume. Part of the reason the Children of Westcrown chose this method of infiltrating the mayor's manor is precisely BECAUSE of this. The PCs attending in "costume" allows them to attend the gala with all their weapons and gear, and thus when it comes to exploring the Asmodean Knot, they'll have all their stuff with them. If you rework the play so that the PCs don't get to bring their gear, you'll probably be limiting them in the same way to lesser gear for the entire adventure.
Not only would that hurt the PCs unfairly, since the Asmodean Knot assumes the PCs aren't hobbled by lack of gear, but PCs are more likely to go along with "so you all died and are now zombies" than they are to go along with "You have to do the entire adventure without your gear."
Hmmmmm.....Must resist urge to be mean to my players....
Seriously though, I think I'll try to come up with a way to limit the PCs equipment. Perhaps suggesting that (as their characters in the play) they've been brought directly from a battle or ambush to the trial carrying only their arms and a few baubles.
I appreciate the reply on my question. Keep up the great work with these kinds of adventures.
-Bsus
But remember... during the Cornucopia, the PCs are allowed to attend in costume. Part of the reason the Children of Westcrown chose this method of infiltrating the mayor's manor is precisely BECAUSE of this. The PCs attending in "costume" allows them to attend the gala with all their weapons and gear, and thus when it comes to exploring the Asmodean Knot, they'll have all their stuff with them. If you rework the play so that the PCs don't get to bring their gear, you'll probably be limiting them in the same way to lesser gear for the entire adventure.
Not only would that hurt the PCs unfairly, since the Asmodean Knot assumes the PCs aren't hobbled by lack of gear, but PCs are more likely to go along with "so you all died and are now zombies" than they are to go along with "You have to do the entire adventure without your gear."
Ah, good point there, James. I'll just play up the "starring real adventurers" angle.
Thanks for the input.
-Bsus
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The play isn't intended to be a historically accurate documentary, but the equivalent of a modern action movie, really.
Okay, now you've got me wanting to rewrite the whole play in Ahnold-speak, with Haanderthan as the corrupt chief, Lazarod as the maverick who works outside the system, Tybain as the goofy partner, Ilsandra as the tough chick with the heart of gold, and Dentris as the mentor with one more day before retirement.
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We had a great play on Halloween night.
It seems our lead actress suddenly could not speak on the night of the play. Our female PC (rogue) was slated for one of the non-speaking parts suddenly got to be a stand-in for the female lead. One other minor shift in roles and off we went to the big theater.
I had purchased the theater flip map for this event (not necessary, but way cool for atmosphere.) I flipped it over as the part of shuffling them into the green room was brought up. They all went "oooh."
If I had deducted for flubbed lines, they might have owed me money at the end of the night. Between watching our 'female lead' struggle through the lines that she was not prepared for (and blushing because of them) and the trick-or-treaters ringing the doorbell, we had to pause often for a giggle break.
Loved it. Most of my player did as well (one hard core roll-player being the possible exception - but it was good for him to have to do some role-playing for a change.
snip
The rules have changed for how you use the GP limit.
Check pages 460-61 (table 15-1) in the rulebook or the under "purchasing magic items" in the PRD. Link
One thing that stuck out for me was the Devil that goes insane from boredom. That makes little sense to me - an immortal creature that is often gifted to evil humans (or other sentients) who might well tell the creature - yeah you guard this for the next 300 years does not seem like something that is going to go insane because its in a boring local for 70 odd years.
Admittedly just saying 'its not insane but it sure wants revenge'. solves this problem but this point did stick out for me.
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One thing that stuck out for me was the Devil that goes insane from boredom. That makes little sense to me - an immortal creature that is often gifted to evil humans (or other sentients) who might well tell the creature - yeah you guard this for the next 300 years does not seem like something that is going to go insane because its in a boring local for 70 odd years.
Admittedly just saying 'its not insane but it sure wants revenge'. solves this problem but this point did stick out for me.
I had the same problem as well. I approached it as the devil just wants to get out and I had him bargining continually to try to get the group to let him out. Of course, the paladin of Iomedae was having none of it so, they left him in his cell.
also, the Tower of Perpetuity is a VERY challenging encounter for a group at this level. Fortunately, the party ran when the second set of shadows arrived just as they destroyed the first set. The paladin was drained to only 4 STR and would have died with one more hit. The party ran down the stairs towards the next shaft and seeing the hall 30' below just ran and jumped.
They had no idea that the shaft was looping so when the Elven Sorcerer did not make the Acrobatics check, my players thought she was dead. I love it when I catch them off-guard!
I did tweak the shadows a bit as there was only one magic weapon between all four of them. I allowed their weapons to hit for half damage anyways. Without this, they would not have made past the first set.
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I did tweak the shadows a bit as there was only one magic weapon between all four of them. I allowed their weapons to hit for half damage anyways. Without this, they would not have made past the first set.
That tower/shadows fight was completely improper for the group at the level/strength a group should be. I wound up significantly reducing the difficulty of the challenge, and had I been playing with traditional "shadows" the group would have had two deaths. My suggestion for any GMs running the Asmodean Knot is to completely revamp the encounter altogether.
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I did tweak the shadows a bit as there was only one magic weapon between all four of them. I allowed their weapons to hit for half damage anyways. Without this, they would not have made past the first set.That tower/shadows fight was completely improper for the group at the level/strength a group should be. I wound up significantly reducing the difficulty of the challenge, and had I been playing with traditional "shadows" the group would have had two deaths. My suggestion for any GMs running the Asmodean Knot is to completely revamp the encounter altogether.
I agree. I saw somewhere else where someone suggested using the Lesser Shadows from Tome of Horrors.
I didn't have to tweak it too much as I know my group will cut and run when they have to.
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DM handout: what Pathfinder Ailyn Ghontasavos discovered in the libraries of Skyreach at the Great Lodge in Absalom that lead her to Westcrown.
DM handout: what Pathfinder Ailyn Ghontasavos discovered in the libraries of Skyreach at the Great Lodge in Absalom that lead her to Westcrown.
awesome! Thanks!
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Just about done with this one. I like the Asmodean Knot a lot. But I thought the Six Trials of Larazod was a little scripted.
Who's got my rimshot?
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On page 28, it states "since the Cornucopia is seven courses long and there are more than seven key NPCs, the PCs will need to divide and conquer if they hope to learn everything there is to learn." However, I'm only seeing a total of six "key NPCs." I'm making the assumption that those with a listed gossip are said "key NPCs." Am I missing something here?
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On page 28, it states "since the Cornucopia is seven courses long and there are more than seven key NPCs, the PCs will need to divide and conquer if they hope to learn everything there is to learn." However, I'm only seeing a total of six "key NPCs." I'm making the assumption that those with a listed gossip are said "key NPCs." Am I missing something here?
Besides the 6 listed, there are about 40 party guests all together. As some of these faces are new to the PC's you will want to make up a few of your own so that the PC's don't just walk up to the other six people and start asking questions. I ran this as a huge party and had the PC's making perception checks to notice the main NPCs. From there it was up to them to go up and ask questions.