The shield is part of the close weapon group. Which the brawler can flurry with.
Swap out the AC bonus with Mutagenic Mauler. The two Archetypes should stack.
Just because there is an optimal way to get around an oversight it still doesn't excuse said oversight for existing.
And yeah, this new book is looking more and more like a playtest document, considering how many holes there are in the rules.
Agreed, as I'm looking at it, you need to get Improved Shield Bash and Shield Slam and Shield Focus to qualify for the bonus feats (Greater Shield Focus at 9th, Shield Master at 11th).
Another thing of note are the problems of firing (throwing) a ranged weapon into melee (which the Shield Champion will probably need), so Point Blank Shot and Precise shot become necessary (we're at a 5 feat tax).
If we want to avoid AoO, we're going to need to do the Point Blank Mastery tree, or the Close-Quarters throwing tree (depending on rulings) to keep from being AoO'd when using the shield.
Yikes!
I think you're overstating the case of the feat tax on the ranged stuff. For one, picking up stuff like Point Blank Shot is a perfect example of something to do with Martial Flexibility-- you'll need it occasion but not every fight. Also, you probably already took Shield Slam because it's awesome, and you can throw your shield as part of the a flurry-- you just bash the enemy away from you to avoid an AoE and then throw the thing as part of the same attack action.
That said, there are definitely weird things about the class. Can you use Shield Slam to apply free bull rushes to shield throws? Can you use ricochets to basically omnidirectionly bull rush people? Lots of weird stuff like that.
I have question in regards to Half-Orc Brawlers (Favored Class = 1/4 to effective brawler level for unarmed strike dmg). I want to make sure my herolab is not bugged. With a monk's robe and at level 12, the brawler has unarmed dmg of 2d10. Now the shield champion ability, Returning Shield, states that at level 12, your shield bash dmg becomes your unarmed strike dmg. To test, i added shield spikes and bashing to my shield, which brought the dmg to a whopping 8d8. Is this accurate? cause i find it horrendously high for a melee character at lvl 12.
Thanks in advance!
Have a nice day!
Don't trust PC Gen for that stuff. I learned that hard way with the Brawler Fighter archetype.
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I have question in regards to Half-Orc Brawlers (Favored Class = 1/4 to effective brawler level for unarmed strike dmg). I want to make sure my herolab is not bugged. With a monk's robe and at level 12, the brawler has unarmed dmg of 2d10. Now the shield champion ability, Returning Shield, states that at level 12, your shield bash dmg becomes your unarmed strike dmg. To test, i added shield spikes and bashing to my shield, which brought the dmg to a whopping 8d8. Is this accurate? cause i find it horrendously high for a melee character at lvl 12.
Thanks in advance!
Have a nice day!
It would be your unarmed damage, increase by one step for spikes, increase by two steps for bashing. I dunno what that is, but I'm pretty sure it ain't 8d8.
Speaking of herolab can anybody explain to me how to get spikes on a shield in herolab? I have tried everything I can think of with no luck :/
8d8 is about rite. Have a go at building this in herolab and see what happens.
That supposes herolab is correct, which it very frequently is not.
It's not even an oversight. It's got to be intentional.
The brawler isn't normally proficient with shields. So why are they listed at all if not to call out the shield champion?
I can't think of any other archtype that retains a class feature but losses access to it due simply to the way the archtype operates. It's absurd and just screams playtest. The cut and paste nature of this book is just atrocious.
Sohei gains access to light armor, but gains no ability to use it with his monk armor bonuses. The bonus armor is made up for by the armor you get from the shield itself. You don't get a replacement feature because it would be unbalancing. Removing the feature would be redundant.
They're listed in the class because picking up shield proficiency isn't hard. It's the same way in the monk class.
I disagree on the shield damage assertion of 8d8.
The brawler close weapon quality states "The Brawler's damage..." "When wielding a close weapon, she uses the unarmed strike damage of a brawler 4 levels lower...." "If the weapon normally deals more damage than this, its damage is unchanged."
The bashing quality and spikes both increase the base damage of the shield. Medium heavy shield goes from 1d4 -> 1d6 -> 1d8 -> 2d6 going up 3 steps. This is the weapons 'normal damage' referenced above by my reading.
So long as your unarmed damage is less than 2d6... you use the shields damage. When it goes over you use the unarmed damage instead. That's how I read those abilities stacking up.
Tossed on top of something like the vital strike chain...4x(8d8+bonuses) is a bit ludicrous.
That's how I see it. All those things are size changes to the shield for damage. None are size changes for unarmed damage. So they just raise your shield's base damage, making it take longer before your unarmed damage takes over for it.
I was under the impression that Brawler's Flurry gave Two-Weapon Fighting for it's purposes, which allows you to take Feats that require it, but that they only function whilst using Brawler's Flurry.
It says "When doing so, a brawler has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat" "At 8th level, the brawler gains use of the Improved Two- Weapon Fighting feat when using brawler’s flurry. At 15th level, she gains use of the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat when using brawler’s flurry."
So to me, it looks like you have those feats but they only work while using flurry. You should be able to use them as prerequisites without issue.