Ninjaruski's page

So,the quick draw shield makes it a free action to draw the shield, and the throwing shield makes it a free action to throw. The Shield Champion archetype says that the shield champion can throw the shield as part of a flurry. Does this mean that the shield champion could, theoretically, throw the shield as a free action during the flurry and get a functional additional attack?

This works the same way as the shield. Feral Combat allows you to use your unarmed damage instead of your claw damage. Catfolk Exemplar and Improved Natural Attack alter your claw(weapon) base damage. None affect your unarmed damage and thus wouldn't translate into any extra damage to your shield.

I don't read FCT as swapping claw damage for unarmed damage as it states: "you can apply... effects that augment an unarmed strike" to the claws, which would imply that the monk/brawler's unarmed strike damage progression would also apply to the claws as well, which puts the claws into a nebulous place.

Ninjaruski wrote:

Assuming you play a catfolk shield champion and take the Cat's Claws racial trait (1d4 claws as natural attack), then Catfolk Exemplar "sharp claws" (1d6 claws as natural attack), then Feral Combat Training (use natural attacks as part of flurry, apply unarmed strike enhancements to natural weapons), would the enhanced damage from your claws apply to the shield?

No, because Close Weapon Mastery specifically says, "unarmed strike damage of a brawler 4 levels lower or the base damage for that weapon" and a catlfolk's claws are natural attacks.

Yes, but that misses what Feral Combat Training does with natural attacks.

Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.

Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.

I guess the question becomes whether or not the catfolk's claws, as modified by Feral Combat Training, are pseudo-unarmed strikes, or if they retain their "natural attack" classification, or if they're "monk weapons."

Or I could just be barking up a tree that doesn't exist.

I actually have a more interesting question, along the same lines of increasing the damage dealt by shields as derived from the unarmed combat damage.

Assuming you play a catfolk shield champion and take the Cat's Claws racial trait (1d4 claws as natural attack), then Catfolk Exemplar "sharp claws" (1d6 claws as natural attack), then Feral Combat Training (use natural attacks as part of flurry, apply unarmed strike enhancements to natural weapons), would the enhanced damage from your claws apply to the shield?

This becomes more interesting were you to take, say Improved Natural Attack (assuming a benevolent DM allows such) to further enhance the damage of the claws/natural attack/unarmed strike.

If I'm looking at this right:
1st level - Catfolk Exemplar (CE) + Cat's Claws trait (CC) = 1d6 claw damage.
2nd Level - (Take Weapon Focus as bonus feat)
3rd level - CE + CC + Feral Combat Training (FCT) = 1d8 claw damage
4th level - CE + CC + FCT = 2d6 claw damage? (it could be 1d10, not sure)

So the question would be whether or not the enhancements to the natural attacks would apply to the shield attack as derived from unarmed strike, or if the natural attacks are separate.

That was was the next thing I was going to point out: the AC dodge bonus issue. If you take Shield Focus, you get +1 when using a shield, and if you take Improved Shield Bash, you keep your shield bonus when bashing. This, to me, seems like Paizo is relying on the shield feats to fill the gap.

The only reason I can see for not changing the AC thing is when the shield is thrown: it might not provide the AC bonus from shield focus if the shield is flying through the air. Even with this justification, I find it suspect.

Agreed, as I'm looking at it, you need to get Improved Shield Bash and Shield Slam and Shield Focus to qualify for the bonus feats (Greater Shield Focus at 9th, Shield Master at 11th).

Another thing of note are the problems of firing (throwing) a ranged weapon into melee (which the Shield Champion will probably need), so Point Blank Shot and Precise shot become necessary (we're at a 5 feat tax).

If we want to avoid AoO, we're going to need to do the Point Blank Mastery tree, or the Close-Quarters throwing tree (depending on rulings) to keep from being AoO'd when using the shield.

Yikes!

On pg.24 of the ACG, under the flurry, it states "...a brawler has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat when attacking with any combination of unarmed strikes... etc"

The Shield Champion archetype on pg.87 states "a shield champion can throw her shield as part of a brawler's flurry."

Now, it says that the shield proficiency replaces the brawler's weapons proficiencies, which I assume means that the shield champion can flurry with the shield as though it were a monk weapon. (I could be wrong.)

My question is, for the purpose of qualifying for feats like "shield slam" does the "two weapon fighting" from the Brawlers flurry act as an equivalent for the two weapon fighting feat, or would I still have to take TWF?

Also, is there a ruling on how a Shield Champion's shield throwing interacts with equipment enhancements like "throwing shield," which makes throwing the shield a free action?