Investigators: which skill feats do you find compliment the class well?

[Visandus]

I'm going to be playing an investigator soon, and I'm trying to plan out which skill feats to pick up; this is my first time playing a heavy skill based class in PF2, so the number of choices is a bit overwhelming!

I'm going to be running with a Alchemical Sciences or Forensic Medicine ranged (shortbow) investigator. I am currently planning on picking up Arcane Sense and Streetwise, since I think those will be handy additions to my toolkit. The former gives me a reliable way of finding magical influences, and the latter allows me to use society in place of Diplomacy for Gather Information, which seems thematically appropriate.

Any other suggestions those who have played the class can make?

[Captain Morgan]

What are your ability scores, and what do you know about the campaign you are playing in?

[Exocist]

Depends on ability scores and campaign, but assuming you’re Int/Dex/Wis/Con then I’d recommend

- Medicine line (Battle Medicine, Continual Recovery, Ward Medic)
- Trick Magic Item

At the very least, from there you might consider

- Acrobatics - Nimble Crawl, Cat Fall and Kip Up
- Occultism - Disturbing Knowledge
- Stealth - Shadow Mark, Quiet Allies, Foil Senses, Swift Sneak, Legendary Sneak

[Visandus]

Captain Morgan wrote:

What are your ability scores, and what do you know about the campaign you are playing in?

Currently leaning:

STR 10
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 18
WIS 12
CHA 10

Though I may shuffle those around a bit depending on which skill feats people highlight.

Campaign is probably going to be Agents of Edgewatch but the DM isn't 100% on that yet (assume Agents for now).

[HammerJack]

Additional Lore.

Yes. Really.

[Captain Morgan]

Well, in that case you'll get the best results from leaning into your good scores, with the exception of acrobatics I guess because pretty much no acrobatics feats require rolling acrobatics. The stealth suggestions are solid but I will point out Terrain Stalker is amazing when you can actually use it, and I'd imagine rubble would pop up at least a bit.

I haven't read Edgewatch but I'd think 5hr Connections feat would be good.

[The Raven Black]

HammerJack wrote:

Additional Lore.

Yes. Really.

I second this so much. By taking these for creatures that are usually identified with WIS skills (Religion and Nature), you get to use your INT bonus AND benefit from the reduced DC due to having a specialized Lore.

I built an Investigator who heavily specializes in Identifying creatures to get the circumstance bonuses for her and her allies when she crits at Recall Knowledge using Know Weaknesses.

I will play her in Abomination Vaults, so she gets an AP background I liked and I built her to level 10 only.

She uses all tricks to maximize her Identifying creatures checks : First, Loremaster dedication to get Loremaster's Etude.
Then, Pathfinder Agent dedication to get the circumstance bonus from Thorough Reports.
Then, Scrollmaster dedication to access Bestiary Scholar, which together with Cognitive Crossover, gives her even more chances to get a critical.

Note though that to be efficient from the start and keep its efficiency through the levels, this build makes liberal use of retrain.

She maxes Arcana, Occult and Society for identification, and Stealth. Later on (after level 10) she will also max Acrobatics and Athletics or Thievery.

Multiple Additional Lore (Animals, Undead, Fey, Plants, Fiends, Celestials, Fungus, Monitors, Giants for the damn Trolls, pretty much in that order) are key to the build before level 10 when Bestiary Scholar allows you to retrain out of them if you wish.

The skill feats suggested in the above posts are all very good choices too IMO.

[lemeres]

For those unfamiliar- additional lore gives you a lore skill AND auto upgrades it until it hits legendary at level 15.

Even as a knowledge character, this can cause your lore skills to be better than even some of the regular int based knowledge skills you focus on (since you can only raise one after another each level).

So grabbing undead and fiends is likely a great move for spare skill feats, even if you aren't a knowledge build. It is a one time investment that continues to pay off.

[Captain Zoom]

The Raven Black wrote:

She uses all tricks to maximize her Identifying creatures checks : First, Loremaster dedication to get Loremaster's Etude.

Then, Pathfinder Agent dedication to get the circumstance bonus from Thorough Reports.
Then, Scrollmaster dedication to access Bestiary Scholar, which together with Cognitive Crossover, gives her even more chances to get a critical

Hi! Are you using a variant, like double the class feats? I'm just trying to understand the build...

Level 1: Not usable to take any of the feats mentioned (even using retraining) as the other feats are all Level 2 or higher feats

Level 2: Loremaster Dedication

Level 4: Loremaster's Etude (and I'm going to assume you take Orthographic Mastery as a skill feat as your 2nd feat to meet the requirement to take 2 Loremaster feats in order to take another dedication)

Level 6: Pathfinder Agent Dedication

Level 8: Thorough Reports (EDIT - Here's the mistake- Thorough Reports is a skill feet... missed that)

Level 10: Scrollmaster Dedication (which you can take as a continuation of the Pathfinder Agent dedication)

??? Bestiary Scholar

Cognitive Crossover is a skill feat, so that doesn't eat a class feat.

So you're out of class feats after Scrollmaster if you're only building to Level 10.

You mention liberal use of retraining, but I don't see how that fixes any of this.

I'm trying to work up a Witch based knowledge character and I was trying to understand your build to help me with my build, but I seem to be missing something.

Thanks

[graystone]

Captain Zoom wrote:

Hi! Are you using a variant, like double the class feats? I'm just trying to understand the build...

Lots of those feats are skill feats and you get them quicker. For instance, Thorough Reports is a skill feat too and also ones that qualify for your Skillful Lessons. For instance, at 6th, you could take Pathfinder Agent Dedication, Thorough Reports AND another skill feat: if you wanted, you could start and end Pathfinder Agent by taking the dedication and 2 skill feats for the 3 you need and take another unrelated dedication at 8th.

So the feats that "eat a class feat" are Loremaster Dedication, Loremaster's Etude, Pathfinder Agent Dedication, Scrollmaster Dedication and Bestiary Scholar: this means you can take them all at 10th if you wish.

[Captain Zoom]

graystone wrote:

Captain Zoom wrote:

Hi! Are you using a variant, like double the class feats? I'm just trying to understand the build...

Lots of those feats are skill feats and you get them quicker. For instance, Thorough Reports is a skill feat too and also ones that qualify for your Skillful Lessons. For instance, at 6th, you could take Pathfinder Agent Dedication, Thorough Reports AND another skill feat: if you wanted, you could start and end Pathfinder Agent by taking the dedication and 2 skill feats for the 3 you need and take another unrelated dedication at 8th.

So the feats that "eat a class feat" are Loremaster Dedication, Loremaster's Etude, Pathfinder Agent Dedication, Scrollmaster Dedication and Bestiary Scholar: this means you can take them all at 10th if you wish.

You're right. I did check to weed out the skill feats, but I missed one, Thorough Reports, which gives you just enough class feats to get everything by Level 10.

Thanks

[Gisher]

Captain Zoom wrote:

graystone wrote:

Captain Zoom wrote:

Hi! Are you using a variant, like double the class feats? I'm just trying to understand the build...

Lots of those feats are skill feats and you get them quicker. For instance, Thorough Reports is a skill feat too and also ones that qualify for your Skillful Lessons. For instance, at 6th, you could take Pathfinder Agent Dedication, Thorough Reports AND another skill feat: if you wanted, you could start and end Pathfinder Agent by taking the dedication and 2 skill feats for the 3 you need and take another unrelated dedication at 8th.

So the feats that "eat a class feat" are Loremaster Dedication, Loremaster's Etude, Pathfinder Agent Dedication, Scrollmaster Dedication and Bestiary Scholar: this means you can take them all at 10th if you wish.

You're right. I did check to weed out the skill feats, but I missed one, Thorough Reports, which gives you just enough class feats to get everything by Level 10.

Thanks

I've been keeping a list of archetype skill feats, and I thought you might find it useful. I've added my conclusions as to which skills each uses so as to determine whether they can be taken using Skillful Lessons.

----------

Acrobat
Graceful Leaper 7 - Acrobatics (Dex)

Animal Trainer
Insistent Command 8 - Nature (Wis)

Archaeologist
Settlement Scholastics 4 - Lore (Int)
Scholastic Identification 7 - Society (Int)

Cavalier
Quick Mount 4 - Nature (Wis)

Dandy
Distracting Flattery 4 - Deception (Cha)
Fabricated Connections 7 - Deception (Cha)
Party Crasher 7 - Society (Int)

Gladiator
Fancy Moves 4 - Performance (Cha)

Hellknight Armiger
Diabolic Certitude 4 - Arcana (Int), Crafting (Int), Lore (Int), Medicine (Wis), Nature (Wis), Occultism (Int), Religion (Wis) or Society (Int)

Herbalist
Fresh Ingredients 2 - Nature (Wis)

Horizonwalker
Sure Foot 4 - Acrobatics (Dex) and Athletics (Str)

Linguist
Multilingual Cipher 4 - Society (Int)
Phonetic Training 4 - Society (Int)
Analyze Idiolect 6 - Deception (Cha) and Society (Int)
Read Shibboleths 7 - Society (Int)

Loremaster
Orthographic Mastery 4 - Lore (Int)

Magaambyan Attendant
Emerald Boughs Accustomation 6 - Society (Int)
Uzunjati Storytelling 6 - Lore (Int)
Uzunjati Recollection 10 - Lore (Int)

Medic
Treat Condition 4 - Medicine (Wis)
Holistic Care 6 - Diplomacy (Cha)

Oozemorph
Hideous Ululation 4 - Performance (Cha)

Pathfinder Agent
Thorough Reports 4 - Arcana (Int), Crafting (Int), Lore (Int), Medicine (Wis), Nature (Wis), Occultism (Int), Religion (Wis) or Society (Int)
Forced Entry 6 - Athletics (Str)
Recognize Threat 8 - Lore (Int)

Pirate
Rope Runner 4 - Acrobatics (Dex) and Athletics (Str)

Ritualist
Resourceful Ritualist 6 - Arcana (Int), Nature (Wis), Occultism (Int), or Religion (Wis)

Scrollmaster
Unravel Mysteries 8 - Arcana (Int), Nature (Wis), Occultism (Int), or Religion (Wis)

Scrounger
Reverse Engineering 4 - Crafting (Int)
Expert Disassembly 7 - Crafting (Int)

Sentinel
Steel Skin 4 - Survival (Wis)

Vigilante
Hidden Magic 4 - Arcana (Int), Nature (Wis), Occultism (Int), or Religion (Wis)
Minion Guise 4 - Deception (Cha)
Subjective Truth 7 - Deception (Cha)

Zephyr Guard
Know the Beat 3 - Lore (Int)

[The Raven Black]

Captain Zoom wrote:

graystone wrote:

Captain Zoom wrote:

Hi! Are you using a variant, like double the class feats? I'm just trying to understand the build...

Lots of those feats are skill feats and you get them quicker. For instance, Thorough Reports is a skill feat too and also ones that qualify for your Skillful Lessons. For instance, at 6th, you could take Pathfinder Agent Dedication, Thorough Reports AND another skill feat: if you wanted, you could start and end Pathfinder Agent by taking the dedication and 2 skill feats for the 3 you need and take another unrelated dedication at 8th.

So the feats that "eat a class feat" are Loremaster Dedication, Loremaster's Etude, Pathfinder Agent Dedication, Scrollmaster Dedication and Bestiary Scholar: this means you can take them all at 10th if you wish.

You're right. I did check to weed out the skill feats, but I missed one, Thorough Reports, which gives you just enough class feats to get everything by Level 10.

Thanks

Sorry for not answering earlier. And thanks to Graystone for providing the solution. I will post a detailed level by level build later.

[The Raven Black]

Gisher wrote:

Captain Zoom wrote:

graystone wrote:

Captain Zoom wrote:

Hi! Are you using a variant, like double the class feats? I'm just trying to understand the build...

Lots of those feats are skill feats and you get them quicker. For instance, Thorough Reports is a skill feat too and also ones that qualify for your Skillful Lessons. For instance, at 6th, you could take Pathfinder Agent Dedication, Thorough Reports AND another skill feat: if you wanted, you could start and end Pathfinder Agent by taking the dedication and 2 skill feats for the 3 you need and take another unrelated dedication at 8th.

So the feats that "eat a class feat" are Loremaster Dedication, Loremaster's Etude, Pathfinder Agent Dedication, Scrollmaster Dedication and Bestiary Scholar: this means you can take them all at 10th if you wish.

You're right. I did check to weed out the skill feats, but I missed one, Thorough Reports, which gives you just enough class feats to get everything by Level 10.

Thanks

I've been keeping a list of archetype skill feats, and I thought you might find it useful. I've added my conclusions as to which skills each uses so as to determine whether they can be taken using Skillful Lessons.

----------

Acrobat
Graceful Leaper 7 - Acrobatics (Dex)

Animal Trainer
Insistent Command 8 - Nature (Wis)

Archaeologist
Settlement Scholastics 4 - Lore (Int)
Scholastic Identification 7 - Society (Int)

Cavalier
Quick Mount 4 - Nature (Wis)

Dandy
Distracting Flattery 4 - Deception (Cha)
Fabricated Connections 7 - Deception (Cha)
Party Crasher 7 - Society (Int)

Gladiator
Fancy Moves 4 - Performance (Cha)

Hellknight Armiger
Diabolic Certitude 4 - Arcana (Int), Crafting (Int), Lore (Int), Medicine (Wis), Nature (Wis), Occultism (Int), Religion (Wis) or Society (Int)

Herbalist
Fresh Ingredients 2 - Nature (Wis)...

This is extremely useful. I think it could be referenced in the Guide to guides, maybe as a Googledoc or a similar online resource.

[RaptorJesues]

The Raven Black wrote:

HammerJack wrote:

Additional Lore.

Yes. Really.

I second this so much

...
Multiple Additional Lore (Animals, Undead, Fey, Plants, Fiends, Celestials, Fungus, Monitors, Giants for the damn Trolls, pretty much in that order) are key to the build before level 10 when Bestiary Scholar allows you to retrain out of them if you wish.

The skill feats suggested in the above posts are all very good choices too IMO.

Can Lores be taken for such broad categories? The examples given for monsters are Demons and Vampire (and owlbear but whatever) wich sounds like they must be a bit more specific than undeads or fiends

[shroudb]

Streetwise.

Allows you to gather information using your Society(Int) skill rather than diplomacy.

RaptorJesues wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

HammerJack wrote:

Additional Lore.

Yes. Really.

I second this so much

...
Multiple Additional Lore (Animals, Undead, Fey, Plants, Fiends, Celestials, Fungus, Monitors, Giants for the damn Trolls, pretty much in that order) are key to the build before level 10 when Bestiary Scholar allows you to retrain out of them if you wish.

The skill feats suggested in the above posts are all very good choices too IMO.

Can Lores be taken for such broad categories? The examples given for monsters are Demons and Vampire (and owlbear but whatever) wich sounds like they must be a bit more specific than undeads or fiends

Yes, there's even an official entry of Lore (Undead)

although, the wider the range of the Lore the less of the bonus, so if something is "too broad" it may not even have a bonus and just use the regular DC.

[The Raven Black]

What shroudb said. From what I read on these boards, the general idea is that Lore : Fiends would get -2 to the DC compared to Religion and Lore : Demons would get the max reduction of -5.

[RaptorJesues]

this is very interesting, really like this concept. How would bardic lore and similar abilities fit into this? Are they always a flat +5 or...?

[Visandus]

My main concern with taking Additional Lore is the picks are so specific that you almost need to know what's coming up in the campaign to avoid wasting the investment. For example, if you took Lore: Fiends and there are not fiends, it's a bit of a waste...

[graystone]

Visandus wrote:

My main concern with taking Additional Lore is the picks are so specific that you almost need to know what's coming up in the campaign to avoid wasting the investment. For example, if you took Lore: Fiends and there are not fiends, it's a bit of a waste...

The thing to do is pick areas not covered [or covered well] by your other skills. For instance, don't have religion? [or have a low wisdom] Pick up undead and/or fiends. If it turns our you find yourself not running into enough to make you happy, retrain into a different kind.

You can also look at the players guide for the AP as it often has suggestions for lore and/or just ask the DM if a lore would be useful.

[Visandus]

graystone wrote:

The thing to do is pick areas not covered [or covered well] by your other skills. For instance, don't have religion? [or have a low wisdom] Pick up undead and/or fiends. If it turns our you find yourself not running into enough to make you happy, retrain into a different kind.

You can also look at the players guide for the AP as it often has suggestions for lore and/or just ask the DM if a lore would be useful.

True, retraining is always an option. :)

[shroudb]

The Raven Black wrote:

What shroudb said. From what I read on these boards, the general idea is that Lore : Fiends would get -2 to the DC compared to Religion and Lore : Demons would get the max reduction of -5.

I'd say that the maximum reduction should be reserved for more specific things, like the afformentioned Lore: Vampire, but yes.

For me Lore: Fiends would be at max -2, lore Demons would be either -3 or -4, and Lore: Balor would get the full -5.

[The Raven Black]

shroudb wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

What shroudb said. From what I read on these boards, the general idea is that Lore : Fiends would get -2 to the DC compared to Religion and Lore : Demons would get the max reduction of -5.

I'd say that the maximum reduction should be reserved for more specific things, like the afformentioned Lore: Vampire, but yes.

For me Lore: Fiends would be at max -2, lore Demons would be either -3 or -4, and Lore: Balor would get the full -5.

IIRC the RAW only mentions -2 and -5, which is why I put it like this. If it was more open, I think your idea would work really well.

[The Raven Black]

RaptorJesues wrote:

this is very interesting, really like this concept. How would bardic lore and similar abilities fit into this? Are they always a flat +5 or...?

In my experience, this is really, really a Ask your GM situation.

The GM I play with in Abomination Vaults does not consider Loremaster Lore (which is equivalent to Bardic Lore) as specific enough to warrant any reduction in DC.

Another GM I often play PFS with seems to consider it equivalent to a broad specific knowledge, and thus likely eligible for the -2 reduction.

From what I read in threads about this, the only real consensus was that you would not be able to gain the -5 reduction to DC on any topic just by taking Bardic Lore.

[Visandus]

Appreciate the feedback so far.

On a slightly related note, I am deliberating between Alchemical Sciences and Forensic Medicine.

When looking at the list of elixirs and tools, they seem phenomenally underwhelming for the most part. Most of them do little, and the mutagens generally come with nasty downsides.

Is Forensic Medicine generally the better pick, or am I drastically underestimating the elixirs/tools Investigators get access to?

[graystone]

Visandus wrote:

Appreciate the feedback so far.

On a slightly related note, I am deliberating between Alchemical Sciences and Forensic Medicine.

When looking at the list of elixirs and tools, they seem phenomenally underwhelming for the most part. Most of them do little, and the mutagens generally come with nasty downsides.

Is Forensic Medicine generally the better pick, or am I drastically underestimating the elixirs/tools Investigators get access to?

You got the same impression I got: Forensic Medicine wins hands down to me. 2 feats for free, bonus hp healed with Battle Medicine AND Battle Medicine is usable on a target 1/hour? Yes please.

Now this isn't to say Alchemical Sciences is bad: in fact I like it better than an alchemist running non-bomb/poison items especially for someone looking for a few extra 'jack of all trades' items. A weapon blanch here, a Sea Touch Elixir there and you're good but you have a bit of a wait to get the better items with higher item levels.

[shroudb]

Alchemical can also be used for Strength investigators to mitigrate the low armor via drakeheart, or to simply dump both dex (to 14) and str and go for a purely mental build. Down the line, especially at midlevels, you have enough stuff to cover both combat and have the spontaneous utility of hgetting/handing stuff out like scent tracking, darkvision, concealment, and etc.

Forensic is indeed a great healer, much more streamlined than alchemical sciences, less fuss and crunch needed, and overall great as well. Due to healing being always useful it's an option that will always be useful in the table although much less cirumstantially "shine".

[Gisher]

The Raven Black wrote:

This is extremely useful. I think it could be referenced in the Guide to guides, maybe as a Googledoc or a similar online resource.

Here it is as a Googledoc.

Archetype Skill Feats

I added a bunch of new feats from the Pathfinder Society Guide, and also listed sources. Here is the updated list formatted for this forum.

Spoiler:

Archetype Skill Feats

Acrobat (Advanced Player's Guide, pg. 155)
• Graceful Leaper 7 - Acrobatics (Dex)

Animal Trainer (Legacy of the Lost God, pg. 76)
• Insistent Command 8 - Nature (Wis)

Archaeologist (Advanced Player's Guide, pg. 156)
• Settlement Scholastics 4 - Lore (Int)
• Scholastic Identification 7 - Society (Int)

Cavalier (Advanced Player's Guide, pg. 164)
• Quick Mount 4 - Nature (Wis)

Dandy (Advanced Player's Guide, pg. 167)
• Distracting Flattery 4 - Deception (Cha)
• Fabricated Connections 7 - Deception (Cha)
• Party Crasher 7 - Society (Int)

Gladiator (Advanced Player's Guide, pg. 175)
• Fancy Moves 4 - Performance (Cha)

Hellknight Armiger (World Guide, pg. 107)
• Diabolic Certitude 4 - Arcana (Int), Crafting (Int), Lore (Int), Medicine (Wis), Nature (Wis), Occultism (Int), Religion (Wis) or Society (Int)

Herbalist (Advanced Player's Guide, pg. 176)
• Fresh Ingredients 2 - Nature (Wis)

Horizon Walker (Advanced Player's Guide, pg. 177)
• Sure Foot 4 - Acrobatics (Dex) and Athletics (Str)

Linguist (Advanced Player's Guide, pg. 178)
• Multilingual Cipher 4 - Society (Int)
• Phonetic Training 4 - Society (Int)
• Analyze Idiolect 6 - Deception (Cha) and Society (Int)
• Read Shibboleths 7 - Society (Int)

Loremaster (Advanced Player's Guide, pg. 179)
• Orthographic Mastery 4 - Lore (Int)

Magaambyan Attendant (Character Guide, pg. 101)
• Emerald Boughs Accustomation 6 - Society (Int)
• Uzunjati Storytelling 6 - Lore (Int)
• Uzunjati Recollection 10 - Lore (Int)

Medic (Advanced Player's Guide, pg. 184)
• Treat Condition 4 - Medicine (Wis)
• Holistic Care 6 - Diplomacy (Cha)

Oozemorph (The Slithering, pg. 59)
• Hideous Ululation 4 - Performance (Cha)

Pathfinder Agent (World Guide, pg. 23 and Pathfinder Society Guide, pg. 40)
• Dead Reckoning 4 - Survival (Wis)
• Thorough Reports 4 - Arcana (Int), Crafting (Int), Lore (Int), Medicine (Wis), Nature (Wis), Occultism (Int), Religion (Wis) or Society (Int)
• Craft Facsimile 6 - Crafting (Int)
• Forced Entry 6 - Athletics (Str)
• Diverse Recognition 8 - Arcana (Int), Crafting (Int), Lore (Int), Medicine (Wis), Nature (Wis), Occultism (Int), Religion (Wis) or Society (Int)
• Recognize Threat 8 - Lore (Int)
• Snap Out Of It! 8 - Medicine (Wis)

Pirate (Advanced Player's Guide, pg. 185)
• Rope Runner 4 - Acrobatics (Dex) and Athletics (Str)

Ritualist (Advanced Player's Guide, pg. 187)
• Resourceful Ritualist 6 - Arcana (Int), Nature (Wis), Occultism (Int), or Religion (Wis)

Scrollmaster (Character Guide, pg. 113 and Pathfinder Society Guide, pg. 44)
• Unravel Mysteries 8 - Arcana (Int), Nature (Wis), Occultism (Int), or Religion (Wis)
• Masterful Obfuscation 10 - Arcana (Int), Crafting (Int), Lore (Int), Medicine (Wis), Nature (Wis), Occultism (Int), Religion (Wis) or Society (Int)

Scrounger (Advanced Player's Guide, pg. 190)
• Reverse Engineering 4 - Crafting (Int)
• Expert Disassembly 7 - Crafting (Int)

Sentinel (Advanced Player's Guide, pg. 191)
• Steel Skin 4 - Survival (Wis)

Swordmaster (Character Guide, pg. 115 and Pathfinder Society Guide, pg. 52)
• Improvised Crafting 8 - Crafting (Int)
• Emergency Medical Assistance 12 - Medicine (Wis)
• Recollect Studies 12 - Arcana (Int), Crafting (Int), Lore (Int), Medicine (Wis), Nature (Wis), Occultism (Int), Religion (Wis) or Society (Int)
• Rugged Survivalist 12 - Survival (Wis)

Vigilante (Advanced Player's Guide, pg. 196)
• Hidden Magic 4 - Arcana (Int), Nature (Wis), Occultism (Int), or Religion (Wis)
• Minion Guise 4 - Deception (Cha)
• Subjective Truth 7 - Deception (Cha)

Zephyr Guard (Against the Scarlet Triad, pg. 81)
• Know the Beat 3 - Lore (Int)

[Gisher]

graystone wrote:

Visandus wrote:

Appreciate the feedback so far.

On a slightly related note, I am deliberating between Alchemical Sciences and Forensic Medicine.

When looking at the list of elixirs and tools, they seem phenomenally underwhelming for the most part. Most of them do little, and the mutagens generally come with nasty downsides.

Is Forensic Medicine generally the better pick, or am I drastically underestimating the elixirs/tools Investigators get access to?

You got the same impression I got: Forensic Medicine wins hands down to me. 2 feats for free, bonus hp healed with Battle Medicine AND Battle Medicine is usable on a target 1/hour? Yes please.

Now this isn't to say Alchemical Sciences is bad: in fact I like it better than an alchemist running non-bomb/poison items especially for someone looking for a few extra 'jack of all trades' items. A weapon blanch here, a Sea Touch Elixir there and you're good but you have a bit of a wait to get the better items with higher item levels.

Specifically, here is the progression for Alchemical Sciences.

• Investigator (Alchemical Sciences)

You can compare it to other alchemy options.

• Herbalist Archetype

• Alchemist Multiclass

• Alchemist Class

[HumbleGamer]

Visandus wrote:

Appreciate the feedback so far.

On a slightly related note, I am deliberating between Alchemical Sciences and Forensic Medicine.

When looking at the list of elixirs and tools, they seem phenomenally underwhelming for the most part. Most of them do little, and the mutagens generally come with nasty downsides.

Is Forensic Medicine generally the better pick, or am I drastically underestimating the elixirs/tools Investigators get access to?

Forensic Medicine with the Medic archetype is imo way better.

- Forensic Medicine ( You can use Battle medicine on any creature once per hour ).

- Medic Dedication ( Once per day, you can use Battle Medicine on a creature that's temporarily immune. If you're a master in Medicine, you can do so once per hour. )

- Medic Dedication ( the target regains 5 additional HP at DC 20, 10 HP at DC 30, or 15 HP at DC 40. ) which stacks with the Forensic Medicine Investigator ( When you use Battle Medicine, on a success the target recovers additional Hit Points equal to your level )

- Medic Dedication's Doctor Visitation. A flourish move which costs 1 action and allows you to either stride and use battle medicine.

- By lvl 4 you will take Either Doctor's Visitation and Treat Condition ( Medic Dedication's Skill Feat ), and then you will be able to go for something like "herbalist dedication" Starting by lvl 6 ( by lvl 8 you will be Expert Herbalist ).

This will combine either battle medicine and Elixir of life.

This would be a load of dedication feats indeed, but it would be worth it ( you'll specialize through skill feats mostly, until you hit lvl 10 or more ).

To make a quick comparison, starting from lvl 7 your battle medicine will heal 10+7 ( lvl ) +5 ( medic )+ 2d8 on a success, or 4d8 on a critical one, for an average 32/42 hp, vs 20/30 hp without either feats.

[The Raven Black]

Forensic Medicine makes you a great healer, especially with the Medic archetype as HumbleGamer described. But if that role is already taken in your party (say by a Good Champion), it might not be useful as often as it seems.

Alchemical Sciences brings good utility IMO and can be useful for other party members too. After all you can give the elixir to another party member. It also helps get the Assassin dedication, which can be pretty good for Investigators, thanks to gaining Alchemical Crafting.

I took Empiricism to get That's Odd at 1st level and without having to spend one of my precious Class feats, which are needed for dedications in my build. That's Odd's power depends extremely on how your GM interprets it but it is always useful IMO. I feel my current GM uses it to make my PC aware of the things in the AP that we would have missed otherwise. So that no text goes unused.

Interrogation seems great in stories with lot of social interactions.